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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2024 12:25:12 GMT 1
heres a stat for you, I dont think there isn't a town fan out there who would not take 2 away defeats at bolton & Charlton combined with a win v orient can just picture it now, last game , fans singing 'Paul hurst barmy army, hurst the hero, saviour and all that currently points per game Matty Taylor 28 games - 30 points points per game 1.07 Paul Hurst 15 games - 16 points points per game 1.06. ( worse that Taylor ) if hurst manages just 3 more points, he will end on 1.05 ( worse that Taylor ) if hurst manages 4 points from the remaining game he will finish better than Taylor with 1.11 strange how the fans gave the one guy nothing but abuse but worship the other Hurst doesn't escape criticism by a long way. The home form since he took over has been dire, 5 points out of a possible 24, pathetic showing. |
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Post by bexplorer on Apr 20, 2024 11:39:08 GMT 1
Town is his fourth club since leaving in 2018, every club ends up relegated with or without him in charge. Previous manager was fan's favourite and ruined club financially, current manager might finish off football wise. Conclusion: as i posted before support the club first, not the manager Last SIX seasons just one of the four relegated teams have been able to get back up to L1 from the first attempt. The rest have become established L2 sides and some are playing non league now. One exception is 22/23 season when no one could get promoted back up to L1. Many say that players quality is not good enough and we should bring better players. These players have been brought from big clubs, we offered them Championship wages to try to sign them and as a result spent all we had in the bank and next year we might have even smaller budget than this season let alone last one, but fans are still confident that we can bring better players for less budget,...ok, it's not impossible but our current manager has had completely opposite record since leaving Town six years ago. Instead of getting the best out of players which is what managers supposed to do he takes credit for wins and puts all the blame on players for losses. I feel fans and club are overly reliant on PH and that results will go our way. Hopefully no plan B will be needed but i doubt club has any idea how plan B should look like. |
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Post by servernaside on Apr 20, 2024 13:45:03 GMT 1
heres a stat for you, I dont think there isn't a town fan out there who would not take 2 away defeats at bolton & Charlton combined with a win v orient can just picture it now, last game , fans singing 'Paul hurst barmy army, hurst the hero, saviour and all that currently points per game Matty Taylor 28 games - 30 points points per game 1.07 Paul Hurst 15 games - 16 points points per game 1.06. ( worse that Taylor ) if hurst manages just 3 more points, he will end on 1.05 ( worse that Taylor ) if hurst manages 4 points from the remaining game he will finish better than Taylor with 1.11 strange how the fans gave the one guy nothing but abuse but worship the other Stats can hide a multitude of sins. The results and performances were getting progressively worse the longer MT was in charge. I agree that PH's record has been far from exemplary in terms of points return, but the performances have largely been very much improved. If MT had remained, we would undoubtedly have been wrestling FGR for the wooden spoon. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2024 10:43:07 GMT 1
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 17, 2024 10:54:32 GMT 1
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Post by bexplorer on Aug 9, 2024 18:51:54 GMT 1
I think we will be playing well in the first four league games of the season and level of the performances might surprise many fans. We might be in top 3 at least, but from September onwards i see a freefall in results, bad luck and many injuries until we hit bottom 4
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Post by belfastshrew on Aug 9, 2024 19:48:53 GMT 1
Why September specifically?
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Post by bexplorer on Aug 30, 2024 19:46:23 GMT 1
I think we will be playing well in the first four league games of the season and level of the performances might surprise many fans. We might be in top 3 at least, but from September onwards i see a freefall in results, bad luck and many injuries until we hit bottom 4 Need to correct my view of the season, I'm sure a good manager would have got at least 4 points as i honestly believe in August we have had a couple of winning matches. It looks llke PH didn't want to wait until September to take the team to the bottom. I don't exclude that we will get those couple of wins later on in the season but i don't see more then that. PH might leave the club where he had taken it in the first stint , rock bottom. Ipswich is a good example of what a good and average at best managers can do. Mckenna took them from mid table of League One to the PL and PH from promotion candidates to PL to bottom of the Championship. Feel the difference. |
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Post by bexplorer on Sept 13, 2024 15:56:35 GMT 1
One win in the last twelve league games. I remember people saying everything we need was PH bring his players, pre season and we will be in top half. How long will it take for fans to open their eyes, one of he worst starts to the season, no signs of improvement and fans still expecting something from PH, he must be a magician.
I'm afraid season might be gone by Christmas, we struggled since he left six years ago but we never conceded so many goals before. With the chairman putting his money instead of blaming him maybe we could focus on why managers and players underperform when they come to Town and no recipe or experts can help to solve the problems
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Post by markglasgow on Sept 14, 2024 18:06:44 GMT 1
One win in the last twelve league games. I remember people saying everything we need was PH bring his players, pre season and we will be in top half. How long will it take for fans to open their eyes, one of he worst starts to the season, no signs of improvement and fans still expecting something from PH, he must be a magician. I'm afraid season might be gone by Christmas, we struggled since he left six years ago but we never conceded so many goals before. With the chairman putting his money instead of blaming him maybe we could focus on why managers and players underperform when they come to Town and no recipe or experts can help to solve the problems I can't believe the support that Hurst seems to have among our support. His conduct when his left the last time was abysmal. However, it's not his fault he was brought back here. Anyone paying attention to what he did after he slithered out of this club would have had no doubts that managing effectively at this level is now beyond Hurst. Roland was prating for a miracle or lightening to strike twice. Reality has bitten and the fairytale has turned into a nightmare. RW and MM are the ones taking the flak and as culpable as both are for the current predicament, the root cause lies with a manager who is busted flush. It's time to pull the plug. This time we get to call the shots on this little mans departure. |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 14, 2024 21:45:28 GMT 1
One win in the last twelve league games. I remember people saying everything we need was PH bring his players, pre season and we will be in top half. How long will it take for fans to open their eyes, one of he worst starts to the season, no signs of improvement and fans still expecting something from PH, he must be a magician. I'm afraid season might be gone by Christmas, we struggled since he left six years ago but we never conceded so many goals before. With the chairman putting his money instead of blaming him maybe we could focus on why managers and players underperform when they come to Town and no recipe or experts can help to solve the problems I can't believe the support that Hurst seems to have among our support. His conduct when his left the last time was abysmal. However, it's not his fault he was brought back here. Anyone paying attention to what he did after he slithered out of this club would have had no doubts that managing effectively at this level is now beyond Hurst. Roland was prating for a miracle or lightening to strike twice. Reality has bitten and the fairytale has turned into a nightmare. RW and MM are the ones taking the flak and as culpable as both are for the current predicament, the root cause lies with a manager who is busted flush. It's time to pull the plug. This time we get to call the shots on this little mans departure. funnily enough , paul hurst off his own back appeared at notts county last year and shouted comments towards our chairman sat close by along the lines of come and get me , Or put up with watching this rubbish I |
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Post by gtismygod on Sept 15, 2024 13:54:54 GMT 1
One win in the last twelve league games. I remember people saying everything we need was PH bring his players, pre season and we will be in top half. How long will it take for fans to open their eyes, one of he worst starts to the season, no signs of improvement and fans still expecting something from PH, he must be a magician. I'm afraid season might be gone by Christmas, we struggled since he left six years ago but we never conceded so many goals before. With the chairman putting his money instead of blaming him maybe we could focus on why managers and players underperform when they come to Town and no recipe or experts can help to solve the problems I can't believe the support that Hurst seems to have among our support. His conduct when his left the last time was abysmal. However, it's not his fault he was brought back here. Anyone paying attention to what he did after he slithered out of this club would have had no doubts that managing effectively at this level is now beyond Hurst. Roland was prating for a miracle or lightening to strike twice. Reality has bitten and the fairytale has turned into a nightmare. RW and MM are the ones taking the flak and as culpable as both are for the current predicament, the root cause lies with a manager who is busted flush. It's time to pull the plug. This time we get to call the shots on this little mans departure. RW, MM and PH are all culpable, but the root cause is the budget, for which the Chairman is responsible. That’s just common sense. Put whoever you like in charge of the club with the lowest budget in the division, and nine times out of ten they’d struggle to stay up. |
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Post by bexplorer on Sept 27, 2024 19:04:01 GMT 1
For any football club it's really important to identify a problem. I'm not sure Askey and Ricketts were moaning about budget not being big enough and i think the goal then was to try to replicate the play off season. I just want to remind that misdiagnosis can have a range of consequences one of which could lead to wrong treatment. Since play off season our inability to spend big became a problem only at the end of the first and second season under SC as such an experienced manager couldn't get a decent finish when we had a "one win in twelve" run at the end of each of his two full seasons. I doubt our playing budget was bigger when we reached play off final which means we can it again. Next thing we need to understand is whether the manager who did it is someone who really has the talent and skills to do it again. Unfortunately his record at Ipswich, Sc***horpe and Town doesn't fill you with confidence. As to new potential owners i think there is no guarantee that bigger budget will be spent efficiently as we have a culture of trusting and not questioning managers.
My conclusion is as we reached play off final with a similar or less budget than we have this season bigger budget is not a prerequisite for achieving our goals and PH who got additional backing at the end of summer transfer window and as i think was given results seven years ago is not up to the task
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2024 19:19:37 GMT 1
For any football club it's really important to identify a problem. I'm not sure Askey and Ricketts were moaning about budget not being big enough and i think the goal then was to try to replicate the play off season. I just want to remind that misdiagnosis can have a range of consequences one of which could lead to wrong treatment. Since play off season our inability to spend big became a problem only at the end of the first and second season under SC as such an experienced manager couldn't get a decent finish when we had a "one win in twelve" run at the end of each of his two full seasons. I doubt our playing budget was bigger when we reached play off final which means we can it again. Next thing we need to understand is whether the manager who did it is someone who really has the talent and skills to do it again. Unfortunately his record at Ipswich, Sc***horpe and Town doesn't fill you with confidence. As to new potential owners i think there is no guarantee that bigger budget will be spent efficiently as we have a culture of trusting and not questioning managers. My conclusion is as we reached play off final with a similar or less budget than we have this season bigger budget is not a prerequisite for achieving our goals and PH who got additional backing at the end of summer transfer window and as i think was given results seven years ago is not up to the task So what are you saying? That Hurst and Doig should go? |
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 27, 2024 20:05:51 GMT 1
I think it's just an observation. An interesting thought process...we know Hurst is a master of the loan market. Will it be that advantage that just keeps us up? On the other hand, how many losses until most call for his head?
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Post by bexplorer on Sept 29, 2024 18:37:53 GMT 1
I'd like to explain things i discussed in my last post but in a Q&A way.
Q. Do we need bigger budget to get to play offs?
A. No, we don't. We did it with less budget than we have this season.
Q. Is PH the man who could replicate or at least take the team to the top half?
A. No, he isn't. He's got zero promotions in football league, poor win ratio and his results after leaving are the proof of that.
Q. Is budget or quality players key to get to play offs?
A. No, it's not. The manager is the most vital element in the squad, his ambition and talent.
Not all big clubs are at top of the league and if they are there it's because of their ambition, desire, pressure from fans and owners. Against one of such teams we played yesterday. From our perspective we lost two points because Rotherham haven't won an away game since November 2022,but from perspective that we are managed by one of the poorest managers in the league it's a point won. His record is not a secret, majority is still expecting a miracle, that has its own consequences, every season is an opportunity and we have been losing them season in season out. We made a first step in reorganising the structure, it's time to make a second step. The chairman decided to restructure because he saw the manager had too much power without delivering results and they all tried to get results mainly by demanding more backing. The second step could be ditching old outdated ideas about first team management, more efficient spending, development of home players as football dinosaurs have been doing the same thing, style, results over and over again.
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 29, 2024 19:15:41 GMT 1
Interesting. I think a lot of Man Utd fans would say similar things. Ten Hagg is so uninspiring...umambitious and out of his depth too perhaps. The malaise from the fans is allowing him to stay in place. As you point out...pressure from fans would have him gone.
I'm firmly in ABU camp though so keep Ten Hagg at all costs 🤣
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 29, 2024 23:17:30 GMT 1
I'd like to explain things i discussed in my last post but in a Q&A way. Q. Do we need bigger budget to get to play offs? A. No, we don't. We did it with less budget than we have this season. Q. Is PH the man who could replicate or at least take the team to the top half? A. No, he isn't. He's got zero promotions in football league, poor win ratio and his results after leaving are the proof of that. Q. Is budget or quality players key to get to play offs? A. No, it's not. The manager is the most vital element in the squad, his ambition and talent. Not all big clubs are at top of the league and if they are there it's because of their ambition, desire, pressure from fans and owners. Against one of such teams we played yesterday. From our perspective we lost two points because Rotherham haven't won an away game since November 2022,but from perspective that we are managed by one of the poorest managers in the league it's a point won. His record is not a secret, majority is still expecting a miracle, that has its own consequences, every season is an opportunity and we have been losing them season in season out. We made a first step in reorganising the structure, it's time to make a second step. The chairman decided to restructure because he saw the manager had too much power without delivering results and they all tried to get results mainly by demanding more backing. The second step could be ditching old outdated ideas about first team management, more efficient spending, development of home players as football dinosaurs have been doing the same thing, style, results over and over again. Have to say the second part of that ramble I lost interest in but the first half really did give me a good laugh. Well done 😄 |
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Post by bexplorer on Oct 7, 2024 19:14:08 GMT 1
Why September specifically? We were told that we would have tough games in August against promotion hopefuls, but until last Saturday Huddersfield lost four in a row and Peterborough had just one win in five. They are around mid table now but despite that PH still saying they are promotion candidates anyway. They were difficult games only on paper, their current league position just shows that. A decent manager would have got at least nine points. On the contrary from September onwards we had easier games on paper but not in reality. As i was trying to explain that budget is not everything in pro football or investors won't help if managers don't live up to expectations something that Burton is proving. Obviously it's better to have a big budget then a small one but in my opinion there is no correlation between bigger budget and consistent results improvement. We all saw how managers spend hard earned money, they just bring the most expensive players they can get and totally ignore developing of our own players. All that things that we need bigger budget came from SC post match interviews, in reality he just wanted to musk his failing and was desperate to save his reputation. How could we trust and believe him, he ruined club financially but fans still believe his words and think our problem is a lack of investment. Our main problem lies on the field, old ideas don't work anymore but we still trying |
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Oct 7, 2024 19:21:07 GMT 1
Why September specifically? We were told that we would have tough games in August against promotion hopefuls, but until last Saturday Huddersfield lost four in a row and Peterborough had just one win in five. They are around mid table now but despite that PH still saying they are promotion candidates anyway. They were difficult games only on paper, their current league position just shows that. A decent manager would have got at least nine points. Indeed. Difficult to see how Huddersfield and Peterborough will reel in the enormous one and two point gaps they respectively have to to the play-offs with a mere seven months remaining of the season, I'd be chucking my season ticket away if I supported either. Also, without checking I'm assuming that the slightly odd "until last Saturday" stat means they both won on at the weekend? |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 7, 2024 19:38:19 GMT 1
Why September specifically? We were told that we would have tough games in August against promotion hopefuls, but until last Saturday Huddersfield lost four in a row and Peterborough had just one win in five. They are around mid table now but despite that PH still saying they are promotion candidates anyway. They were difficult games only on paper, their current league position just shows that. A decent manager would have got at least nine points. On the contrary from September onwards we had easier games on paper but not in reality. As i was trying to explain that budget is not everything in pro football or investors won't help if managers don't live up to expectations something that Burton is proving. Obviously it's better to have a big budget then a small one but in my opinion there is no correlation between bigger budget and consistent results improvement. We all saw how managers spend hard earned money, they just bring the most expensive players they can get and totally ignore developing of our own players. All that things that we need bigger budget came from SC post match interviews, in reality he just wanted to musk his failing and was desperate to save his reputation. How could we trust and believe him, he ruined club financially but fans still believe his words and think our problem is a lack of investment. Our main problem lies on the field, old ideas don't work anymore but we still trying cotterill once finished 12th 3 points above 15th place, ignore the clubs protocol , manipulated contracts to included massive incentives, cost us hundreds of thousands, bullied staff including females, and some fans were delirious (literally  ). still are ricketts once finished 15th , 4 points behind 13th place with a game in hand , some fans were enraged, still are Steve Cotterill total town games 144, W48 D32 L64 on 3 for a win 1 for a draw that equates to 1.222 points per game Sam Ricketts total town game 96 W28 D34 L34 on 3 for a win 1 for a draw that equates to 1.229 points per game the truth is out there www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=2325&teamTabs=managers |
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Post by belfastshrew on Oct 7, 2024 23:43:22 GMT 1
Cotterillball and Taylorball was terrible...
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Post by bexplorer on Oct 23, 2024 11:16:05 GMT 1
from September onwards i see a freefall in results, bad luck and many injuries until we hit bottom 4 We often hear fans say the manager is not responsible for players when they step on the pitch, ok, but he is responsible for them before the game and he's got plenty of time to build a good team on the training ground. I have been trying to figure out what is the most difficult part in managers carrier and i think that is to land a job at the level they want. Many think that would be getting a club higher in the table, promoted or saved from relegation. After you got the job you can always blame the previous manager, budget or players not being yours, they have so many excuses that there would be no problems to escape from criticism and fans will go out of the way to help a manager. The second most difficult part for them is to stay in a job for as long as they want without getting sacked. You see that that they refuse to resign when things don't go well. And that leads to something that not many fans are aware of and that is managers don't care about clubs they manage mid term let alone long term future. I have been trying to find an evidence that both SC and PH did care about the club and i couldn't find it. They both have been friends or had good relationship with the chairman and had long term contracts and time to show and pay back to the club but they gave nothing except problems on and off the field. The don't develop our own players and as a consequence they don't sell players , moreover they overspend and put club in danger. Some say that we don't have funds to sack but surprisingly we do have money to carry on and soon many may be happy to welcome a new fraud manager |
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Post by cabanas2017 on Oct 24, 2024 13:21:57 GMT 1
I assume you never learnt about paragraphs, the lack of them put me off reading your post....
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Post by Pilch on Oct 24, 2024 16:17:20 GMT 1
I assume you never learnt about paragraphs, the lack of them put me off reading your post.... I've rewritten it just for you  It is frequently stated by fans that the manager should not be held accountable for the players' performances once they are on the pitch. While this perspective has merit, it is essential to recognize that the manager bears responsibility for the team prior to the match and has ample opportunity to cultivate a cohesive unit during training sessions. In contemplating the most challenging aspect of a manager's career, it appears that securing a position at the desired level is paramount. Many believe that this entails elevating a club's standing in the league, achieving promotion, or preventing relegation. Once appointed, a manager can often deflect blame onto the previous manager, financial constraints, or players who do not align with their vision; thus, they possess numerous justifications to evade criticism, and fans are typically inclined to support their manager Another significant challenge for managers is maintaining their position for as long as they wish without facing dismissal. It is common to observe that they are reluctant to resign even when circumstances deteriorate. This leads to a lesser-known reality: many managers do not prioritize the clubs they oversee in the medium to long term. I have sought evidence that both SC and PH genuinely cared about the club, but I have found none. Despite their friendships with the chairman and the security of long-term contracts, they have failed to deliver anything of value, instead creating issues both on and off the pitch. They have not fostered the development of homegrown talent, resulting in a lack of player sales, and have overspent, placing the club in jeopardy. While some argue that financial constraints prevent a managerial change, it is noteworthy that funds are available to continue operations, and it is likely that many will soon welcome a new, untrustworthy manager. |
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 25, 2024 9:06:28 GMT 1
Watching this current team feels like watching a kid with a broken bike fall behind his friends at the BMX track.
Is that his fault? He's not crashed it. But you can't get much more out of it.
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Post by bexplorer on Nov 1, 2024 15:02:30 GMT 1
Town is his fourth club since leaving in 2018, every club ends up relegated with or without him in charge. Previous manager was fan's favourite and ruined club financially, current manager might finish off football wise. Conclusion: as i posted before support the club first, not the manager In one of his recent interviews PH said that the league was strong and probably many believed that but if we look a bit deeper we'll see that in every league there have been not too big clubs that achieved things they shouldn't have, if we listen to the likes of PH or SC. This season we have two teams promoted from L2 in play offs places, Ipswich managed back to back promotion, Leicester winning PL, Shrewsbury 2018 , it just doesn't happen every season in every league because for those who take decisions algorithm of selection process hasn't changed and it's clearly outdated. We have had 5 managers since 2018 but results have always been the same and we finally brought the messiah back but it turns out that he doesn't know the winning formula we thought he did. I said many times that results were given to him and club otherwise how could he be so poor since leaving us. He was a poor manager before joining Town and remained so after leaving. His best results in EFL have been at Town that's why i think that he was given results. In 2018 we didn't have big budget but were top of the league for many months not because we managed to bring quality loanies but because we developed them and there is only one way of doing it and that is through consistent good results, but this season it has become obvious that he is not what we thought of him. Obviously he can't admit it and prefers to mislead or make up excuses, as once SC did, knowing that fans will believe him which will make us head in a wrong direction and as a result may hinder our survival. |
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Post by Pilch on Nov 3, 2024 21:44:06 GMT 1
what do you do on days like today ? |
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). still are
