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Post by Pilch on Sept 22, 2024 19:08:29 GMT 1
No but you can blame him for thinking that Nsiala is the same player he was last time he was here, and for thinking that it’s acceptable to go into a season with Feeney, Nsiala, Pierre, and an untested kid who it turns out is injury prone as our central defensive options. Think the defence shows up the slightly conflicted - in my mind anyway - approach to signings made in the summer. On the one hand you have Moores approach he explained when he first joined of looking to get decent younger players in and get them significant game and experience with us either as loans from higher level teams or signings from lower down the league - which you could see in the Josh Feeney, Hoole and Savin signings. That then seems to conflict with the Pierre and Toto signings which appear much more led by Hurst, and arguably seem more panic signings. There kind of seem to be two conflicting types of recruitment going on which aren’t really gelling at the moment. you can add Gilliead to hursts signings, a player he had for a long time at Sc***horpe , whilst we were led to believe there were to be no more deadline day signings, every town fan still had a defender of any sorts on their wishlist, the fact we brought in 2 players neither of whom were a defender was both a surprise & baffling, but it seems Gilliead has settled into a place in the side all of his own despite other midfielders having outstanding games and losing their place, my opinion gilliead was a big culprit in the Charlton goal last week and yet keeps his place again, I say we do actually have a squad capable of keeping us up, Squad being the key word, last season we had a guy having to pick a side with half the squad injured, nothing on the bench to change a game and yet he did more than enough to keep us up and still got sacked, not that im suggesting bring Taylor back as im not but I think Hurst is missing a trick most games with his selection and then use of subs, and just like last season I think Taylor would have more points than hurst this season too given the same players to work with, so come on Hurst, up your game
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 22, 2024 19:21:16 GMT 1
I agree. Team selections and subs' times have been questionable...
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Post by chirkshrew on Sept 22, 2024 20:04:37 GMT 1
Ooohh...better bring Taylor back...pronto then👍👍
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 20:09:37 GMT 1
Is it the right time to think that Marquis might become another Biggins?
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Post by mattmw on Sept 22, 2024 21:02:16 GMT 1
Think the defence shows up the slightly conflicted - in my mind anyway - approach to signings made in the summer. On the one hand you have Moores approach he explained when he first joined of looking to get decent younger players in and get them significant game and experience with us either as loans from higher level teams or signings from lower down the league - which you could see in the Josh Feeney, Hoole and Savin signings. That then seems to conflict with the Pierre and Toto signings which appear much more led by Hurst, and arguably seem more panic signings. There kind of seem to be two conflicting types of recruitment going on which aren’t really gelling at the moment. That’s what any club would want isn’t it? A blend of youth and experience. I don’t think MM was implying that he wanted a side that consisted entirely of young players who could be developed. There always needs to be experienced players who lead the youngsters and help with their development. The Pierre and Toto signings are surely driven by the budget constraints. I’m sure Hurst would prefer a proven League One centre half in his late twenties, but the budget just isn’t there. If the party line is to be believed, then we’re somehow over-budget, even with this current squad. Think it was more my point that some of the summer signings appear very much in the Moore approach, and others just players Hurst has worked with before, which arguably we haven’t done due diligence on Totally get the budget is a factor and Hurst wanted some experience in, but the Toto signing just seems a real blunder as he’s clearly way off the player we had back in 2017 and really making very basic errors. It could be that Moore and Hurst sat down and worked through all the available experienced centre backs available and decided Toto and Pierre were the best options available - just seems unlikely it occurred that way
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Post by akpaakpost on Sept 22, 2024 21:05:59 GMT 1
Think the defence shows up the slightly conflicted - in my mind anyway - approach to signings made in the summer. On the one hand you have Moores approach he explained when he first joined of looking to get decent younger players in and get them significant game and experience with us either as loans from higher level teams or signings from lower down the league - which you could see in the Josh Feeney, Hoole and Savin signings. That then seems to conflict with the Pierre and Toto signings which appear much more led by Hurst, and arguably seem more panic signings. There kind of seem to be two conflicting types of recruitment going on which aren’t really gelling at the moment. you can add Gilliead to hursts signings, a player he had for a long time at Sc***horpe , whilst we were led to believe there were to be no more deadline day signings, every town fan still had a defender of any sorts on their wishlist, the fact we brought in 2 players neither of whom were a defender was both a surprise & baffling, but it seems Gilliead has settled into a place in the side all of his own despite other midfielders having outstanding games and losing their place, my opinion gilliead was a big culprit in the Charlton goal last week and yet keeps his place again, I say we do actually have a squad capable of keeping us up, Squad being the key word, last season we had a guy having to pick a side with half the squad injured, nothing on the bench to change a game and yet he did more than enough to keep us up and still got sacked, not that im suggesting bring Taylor back as im not but I think Hurst is missing a trick most games with his selection and then use of subs, and just like last season I think Taylor would have more points than hurst this season too given the same players to work with, so come on Hurst, up your game Will you just say anything that goes against a general opinion from fans? I know your Controversial Pilch but Matt Taylor produced the worst football I have ever seen from a town team. We’re miles better now than we were under Matt Taylor, and we’re still sh*t
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 22, 2024 21:28:03 GMT 1
Interesting comments from Clough. Clearly happy with the win, but I thought his side were horrific in the first half. Gifted the goal. Didn't lay a glove on the worse defence in the league. The attempts to play out from the back were painful to watch. They shifted up a gear or two in the 2nd half and that was enough to see Town off. Was striking to hear that Orient's Ritchie Wellens say that his side performance at Shrewsbury was the very worst they had played in the 2.5 years he has been there. If we can't take opportunities presented to us like yesterday then we are goners. Last time we dropped out of this division we amassed 45 points. Can't for the life of me see how we would get anywhere near that number under the current regime. So the only reason we dominated the first half hour was because they were poor? The only reason We beat Orient was because they were poor? I used to enjoy your fairly unbiased views but since you've returned to the board you're negativity is boring. Hurst and the team got the tactics spot on yesterday meaning Mansfield has to change there formation. One mistake and some terrible finishing was the difference between a comfortable win and a narrow loss.
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 22, 2024 21:33:30 GMT 1
That’s what any club would want isn’t it? A blend of youth and experience. I don’t think MM was implying that he wanted a side that consisted entirely of young players who could be developed. There always needs to be experienced players who lead the youngsters and help with their development. The Pierre and Toto signings are surely driven by the budget constraints. I’m sure Hurst would prefer a proven League One centre half in his late twenties, but the budget just isn’t there. If the party line is to be believed, then we’re somehow over-budget, even with this current squad. Think it was more my point that some of the summer signings appear very much in the Moore approach, and others just players Hurst has worked with before, which arguably we haven’t done due diligence on Totally get the budget is a factor and Hurst wanted some experience in, but the Toto signing just seems a real blunder as he’s clearly way off the player we had back in 2017 and really making very basic errors. It could be that Moore and Hurst sat down and worked through all the available experienced centre backs available and decided Toto and Pierre were the best options available - just seems unlikely it occurred that way I don't know about everyone else but I was confident with a back 2 of Pierre and Nsiala at the start of the season. Two big strong experienced CBs that would give their all and use there experience to make up for lack of pace. I'm shocked how bad it has turned out to be.
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Post by SamHarvey on Sept 22, 2024 21:48:05 GMT 1
Interesting comments from Clough. Clearly happy with the win, but I thought his side were horrific in the first half. Gifted the goal. Didn't lay a glove on the worse defence in the league. The attempts to play out from the back were painful to watch. They shifted up a gear or two in the 2nd half and that was enough to see Town off. Was striking to hear that Orient's Ritchie Wellens say that his side performance at Shrewsbury was the very worst they had played in the 2.5 years he has been there. If we can't take opportunities presented to us like yesterday then we are goners. Last time we dropped out of this division we amassed 45 points. Can't for the life of me see how we would get anywhere near that number under the current regime. So the only reason we dominated the first half hour was because they were poor? The only reason We beat Orient was because they were poor? I used to enjoy your fairly unbiased views but since you've returned to the board you're negativity is boring. Hurst and the team got the tactics spot on yesterday meaning Mansfield has to change there formation. One mistake and some terrible finishing was the difference between a comfortable win and a narrow loss. “Hurst and the team got the tactics spot on” …… yet we still lose the game. ??! 2nd half stats such as nearly 60% possession to our 40%, 8 shots with 4 being on target, and xG of over 1.5 and 2 goals suggests it was more than just “one mistake” and “some terrible finishing” (we had one shot on target second half). I’m not against Hurst btw, I don’t feel sacking him would solve our problems. But the comment going at Mark is ridiculous.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 22, 2024 22:10:53 GMT 1
you can add Gilliead to hursts signings, a player he had for a long time at Sc***horpe , whilst we were led to believe there were to be no more deadline day signings, every town fan still had a defender of any sorts on their wishlist, the fact we brought in 2 players neither of whom were a defender was both a surprise & baffling, but it seems Gilliead has settled into a place in the side all of his own despite other midfielders having outstanding games and losing their place, my opinion gilliead was a big culprit in the Charlton goal last week and yet keeps his place again, I say we do actually have a squad capable of keeping us up, Squad being the key word, last season we had a guy having to pick a side with half the squad injured, nothing on the bench to change a game and yet he did more than enough to keep us up and still got sacked, not that im suggesting bring Taylor back as im not but I think Hurst is missing a trick most games with his selection and then use of subs, and just like last season I think Taylor would have more points than hurst this season too given the same players to work with, so come on Hurst, up your game Will you just say anything that goes against a general opinion from fans? I know you're Controversial Pilch but Matt Taylor produced the worst football I have ever seen from a town team. We’re miles better now than we were under Matt Taylor, and we’re still sh*t Taylor had the misfortune of arriving with half a squad taking up 70% of the budget, and then having half of them crocked, at least hurst this season had almost all the budget to play with and much fewer injury issues im just curious as you how things might have turned out had those occasions been flipped ( ok thats for another debate) will certain fans be disappointed on saturday if we go 2-0 down and come back to win 3-2 like we did last season v Reading anyway I'm only using Taylor as a bench mark, nothing more nothing less as for your comments we are miles better ? could you expand on that ? I'd say its unfair actually comparing us to Taylor considering the handicaps he had , its more like comparing us to Ricketts , often started off well, often went ahead, and then came out for the 2nd half somehow managed to find a way to lose only it was never as bad as it is now
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 22, 2024 22:51:30 GMT 1
So the only reason we dominated the first half hour was because they were poor? The only reason We beat Orient was because they were poor? I used to enjoy your fairly unbiased views but since you've returned to the board you're negativity is boring. Hurst and the team got the tactics spot on yesterday meaning Mansfield has to change there formation. One mistake and some terrible finishing was the difference between a comfortable win and a narrow loss. “Hurst and the team got the tactics spot on” …… yet we still lose the game. ??! 2nd half stats such as nearly 60% possession to our 40%, 8 shots with 4 being on target, and xG of over 1.5 and 2 goals suggests it was more than just “one mistake” and “some terrible finishing” (we had one shot on target second half). I’m not against Hurst btw, I don’t feel sacking him would solve our problems. But the comment going at Mark is ridiculous. I said we got it spot on meaning that they had to change there formation/tactics. As for your stats they mean nothing because if it wasn't for some terrible finishing and a silly mistake we would have won comfortably. Instead it stayed 1-0 and we gifted them a leveller meaning they had the momentum.
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Post by akpaakpost on Sept 22, 2024 23:20:37 GMT 1
Will you just say anything that goes against a general opinion from fans? I know you're Controversial Pilch but Matt Taylor produced the worst football I have ever seen from a town team. We’re miles better now than we were under Matt Taylor, and we’re still sh*t Taylor had the misfortune of arriving with half a squad taking up 70% of the budget, and then having half of them crocked, at least hurst this season had almost all the budget to play with and much fewer injury issues im just curious as you how things might have turned out had those occasions been flipped ( ok thats for another debate) will certain fans be disappointed on saturday if we go 2-0 down and come back to win 3-2 like we did last season v Reading anyway I'm only using Taylor as a bench mark, nothing more nothing less as for your comments we are miles better ? could you expand on that ? I'd say its unfair actually comparing us to Taylor considering the handicaps he had , its more like comparing us to Ricketts , often started off well, often went ahead, and then came out for the 2nd half somehow managed to find a way to lose only it was never as bad as it is now Taylor had the fortune of having a good quality team built by SC (budgeting issues aren’t even being disputed I don’t want to raise this argument) the team on paper had about 5/6 players that walk into this current team. And we played far worse football, we had games where we’d turn up and do something (e.g derby at home) and then we’d be god awful for 10 games in a row. Some of Taylor’s wins were complete flukes (e.g Wycombe away, Fleetwood away, reading at home, I could go on). I’m not here trying to say Matt Taylor was the problem, but we look a lot better so far this season. If this team played in league one last season we’d be finishing lower mid table. We just aren’t good enough anymore and the quality of the league has grown whilst we’ve stood still for years on end. We’ve played two of the promoted teams so far, and they’re already miles ahead of us, in contrast to last season the promoted teams were considered some of our easiest fixtures when preparing for them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 6:34:18 GMT 1
I don't know about everyone else but I was confident with a back 2 of Pierre and Nsiala at the start of the season. Two big strong experienced CBs that would give their all and use there experience to make up for lack of pace. I'm shocked how bad it has turned out to be. I certainly wasn't confident going into League 1 with a central defensive partnership of Pierre (previously with L2 Sutton & Wimbledon) and Toto (previously with relegated Fleetwood and narrowly avoiding relegation Burton). I agree I've been shocked how bad they have been, I thought they were going to struggle but they've managed to surpass how bad I thought they would be.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 23, 2024 7:54:45 GMT 1
Taylor had the misfortune of arriving with half a squad taking up 70% of the budget, and then having half of them crocked, at least hurst this season had almost all the budget to play with and much fewer injury issues im just curious as you how things might have turned out had those occasions been flipped ( ok thats for another debate) will certain fans be disappointed on saturday if we go 2-0 down and come back to win 3-2 like we did last season v Reading anyway I'm only using Taylor as a bench mark, nothing more nothing less as for your comments we are miles better ? could you expand on that ? I'd say its unfair actually comparing us to Taylor considering the handicaps he had , its more like comparing us to Ricketts , often started off well, often went ahead, and then came out for the 2nd half somehow managed to find a way to lose only it was never as bad as it is now Taylor had the fortune of having a good quality team built by SC (budgeting issues aren’t even being disputed I don’t want to raise this argument) the team on paper had about 5/6 players that walk into this current team. And we played far worse football, we had games where we’d turn up and do something (e.g derby at home) and then we’d be god awful for 10 games in a row. Some of Taylor’s wins were complete flukes (e.g Wycombe away, Fleetwood away, reading at home, I could go on). I’m not here trying to say Matt Taylor was the problem, but we look a lot better so far this season. If this team played in league one last season we’d be finishing lower mid table. We just aren’t good enough anymore and the quality of the league has grown whilst we’ve stood still for years on end. We’ve played two of the promoted teams so far, and they’re already miles ahead of us, in contrast to last season the promoted teams were considered some of our easiest fixtures when preparing for them. When you say 5/6 players could walk into our team , I presume you mean Shipley too ? , shame he couldn't run into the team and then he might get picked , cotterills only remaining signing and he's the laziest player we have We used to have this argument on here about how they could walk into a championship team None of cotterills signings for us have gone on to play at a higher level Are any of them even shining at their new clubs ? As far as I'm concerned It was a relief as their contracts came to an end As people keep saying football is a results business , go compare the results , hurst currently trails Taylor by a mile and that says a lot Sounds like you are happier to go down watching hurst lose most weeks than you were watching Taylor keep us up Personally I'm happy to stick with hurst as I never like to see a manager get paid up for being poor , I want to see how it ends , I hope we can get 3 points never week but I won't cry if we don't , I'll propably just have a laugh at how 1 win in 17 is ok with some 😝
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 9:07:44 GMT 1
That's an interesting (and depressing) point, if you take the first 7 league games of this season and last 7 of last season it reads W1, D4, L9 (7 points from a possible 42).
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 23, 2024 10:10:24 GMT 1
I am firmly in the camp of 'rather Hurst take us down, than Taylor keep us up'. Much more entertained this season so far, attacking football on display with all but Shipperz giving 100%. Budget issues and a tougher quality league mean we going down.
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Post by zenfootball on Sept 23, 2024 11:29:27 GMT 1
Think it was more my point that some of the summer signings appear very much in the Moore approach, and others just players Hurst has worked with before, which arguably we haven’t done due diligence on Totally get the budget is a factor and Hurst wanted some experience in, but the Toto signing just seems a real blunder as he’s clearly way off the player we had back in 2017 and really making very basic errors. It could be that Moore and Hurst sat down and worked through all the available experienced centre backs available and decided Toto and Pierre were the best options available - just seems unlikely it occurred that way I don't know about everyone else but I was confident with a back 2 of Pierre and Nsiala at the start of the season. Two big strong experienced CBs that would give their all and use there experience to make up for lack of pace. I'm shocked how bad it has turned out to be. We have the worst of both worlds, if Nsiala and or Pierre play they will be caught out of pace, do a stupid challenge or make a basic error all of which has cost us all the games we have lost this season. also our right and left backs have been poor, hurst and moore even with a limited budget should never have brought them back. they need to sit on the bench for the rest of the season but that wont happen due to injuries and a small squad. at the other end i like LLoyd but he has missed chances he should have out away, he holds up the ball but is often isolated and gets no support marquis when he has come on has not pulled up any trees, Castledine has scored goals but so far does not head well, in the Mansfield game he had a free header with a virtual open goal and headed it wide, so without the two feeneys we will ship goals and we dont score enough. we should have beaten Stevenage, Oldham and Mansfield but we lost to all three, if we had won we would be about tenth. its frustrating as our performances are improving but if we cant sort out these issues .we will continue to prop up the table and get relegated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 12:33:08 GMT 1
I really thought that we would have seen more of Marquis.
I don't know how much of the budget went on him but he's with us until 2026.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 12:36:05 GMT 1
I really thought that we would have seen more of Marquis. I don't know how much of the budget went on him but he's with us until 2026. Signed without a plan it’d appear, much like Biggins.
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Post by akpaakpost on Sept 23, 2024 12:42:58 GMT 1
Taylor had the fortune of having a good quality team built by SC (budgeting issues aren’t even being disputed I don’t want to raise this argument) the team on paper had about 5/6 players that walk into this current team. And we played far worse football, we had games where we’d turn up and do something (e.g derby at home) and then we’d be god awful for 10 games in a row. Some of Taylor’s wins were complete flukes (e.g Wycombe away, Fleetwood away, reading at home, I could go on). I’m not here trying to say Matt Taylor was the problem, but we look a lot better so far this season. If this team played in league one last season we’d be finishing lower mid table. We just aren’t good enough anymore and the quality of the league has grown whilst we’ve stood still for years on end. We’ve played two of the promoted teams so far, and they’re already miles ahead of us, in contrast to last season the promoted teams were considered some of our easiest fixtures when preparing for them. When you say 5/6 players could walk into our team , I presume you mean Shipley too ? , shame he couldn't run into the team and then he might get picked , cotterills only remaining signing and he's the laziest player we have We used to have this argument on here about how they could walk into a championship team None of cotterills signings for us have gone on to play at a higher level Are any of them even shining at their new clubs ? As far as I'm concerned It was a relief as their contracts came to an end As people keep saying football is a results business , go compare the results , hurst currently trails Taylor by a mile and that says a lot Sounds like you are happier to go down watching hurst lose most weeks than you were watching Taylor keep us up Personally I'm happy to stick with hurst as I never like to see a manager get paid up for being poor , I want to see how it ends , I hope we can get 3 points never week but I won't cry if we don't , I'll propably just have a laugh at how 1 win in 17 is ok with some 😝 I don’t believe Matt Taylor would’ve kept us up, the club was an absolute shambles during his time, and I’m not even saying it’s all his fault. MT should’ve been allowed to bring in his own coaching staff, and play his own formation, he was let down by his lack of experience which allowed him to get walked over by people above him, which I imagine didn’t help the dressing room at all. Due to reasons like this, which aren’t his fault entirely, I feel a lot more confident under Hurst, and we play better football on the eye. This isn’t me trying to paint Hurst as a messiah that’s immune to criticism, it could have been any experienced coach with a half decent track record that would’ve came into the job and reassured the fan base a bit at the time. As for where we’re heading now, I sadly accepted relegation when the Mansfield winner went in, I believe we’ll put up a decent fight but still go down. This isn’t me being a bad fan or even worse being a happy clapper and accepting mediocrity. We’re going down because the football league has grown considerably in the last 10 years, with better investment coming lower and lower down the pyramid. We have just stayed the same, we operate like a mid table league two club, and when that happens that’s exactly where we will head unless things change.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 12:44:25 GMT 1
I really thought that we would have seen more of Marquis. I don't know how much of the budget went on him but he's with us until 2026. Signed without a plan it’d appear, much like Biggins. Indeed, when we are on a shoestring budget we need to get the best out of each and everyone of our signings. Biggins gone and now Marquis in a bit part role. Not good.
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Post by aghabullogueshrew on Sept 23, 2024 12:51:52 GMT 1
Okay, here’s my tuppence worth! The football under PH has been much better than under Taylor but the results haven’t! Taylor’s football was shocking, ie. Pass it around the back for a couple of minutes and then hopefully punt it up the pitch to attackers not big enough to hold up the ball! Hurst’s football is, surprisingly, more pleasing on the eye than the last time he was here but we seem to be shooting ourselves in the foot way too often. In regards to the recruiting, we seem to have found a number of decent midfielders, either loanees or permanent, but not any fit and fighting centre backs! I think that PH had a list of players he would liked to have signed but either we couldn’t afford the fee or the wages or they just didn’t want to come here, so he went back to players he knew and liked playing for him, and where available! I still have faith in PH, but we still need to sort out the defence and pick a striker who actually scores! Oh, the loanees are usually knackered after 65 minutes so can we stop making changes after 75 minutes and bring them on a bit earlier!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 13:11:08 GMT 1
Signed without a plan it’d appear, much like Biggins. Indeed, when we are on a shoestring budget we need to get the best out of each and everyone of our signings. Biggins gone and now Marquis in a bit part role. Not good. On that note also what’s the latest on Kayode, you’d forget he was here. After last season you’d think we have learned our lesson on signing players with a track record of injury.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 13:24:33 GMT 1
Indeed, when we are on a shoestring budget we need to get the best out of each and everyone of our signings. Biggins gone and now Marquis in a bit part role. Not good. On that note also what’s the latest on Kayode, you’d forget he was here. After last season you’d think we have learned our lesson on signing players with a track record of injury. It was confirmed last week he's out for 6 weeks
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 23, 2024 13:28:34 GMT 1
Indeed, when we are on a shoestring budget we need to get the best out of each and everyone of our signings. Biggins gone and now Marquis in a bit part role. Not good. On that note also what’s the latest on Kayode, you’d forget he was here. After last season you’d think we have learned our lesson on signing players with a track record of injury. Think I'd heard approx 4 weeks, not sure how long ago that was though. Trouble is his track record of injury isnt good so it's likely he will be out again not too long after he comes back.
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Post by zenfootball on Sept 23, 2024 13:30:40 GMT 1
Indeed, when we are on a shoestring budget we need to get the best out of each and everyone of our signings. Biggins gone and now Marquis in a bit part role. Not good. On that note also what’s the latest on Kayode, you’d forget he was here. After last season you’d think we have learned our lesson on signing players with a track record of injury. it is like groundhog day, we do it to to save money but it is a false saving as most of them miss huge amounts of the season due to injury.
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Post by zenfootball on Sept 23, 2024 13:31:32 GMT 1
On that note also what’s the latest on Kayode, you’d forget he was here. After last season you’d think we have learned our lesson on signing players with a track record of injury. Think I'd heard approx 4 weeks, not sure how long ago that was though. Trouble is his track record of injury isnt good so it's likely he will be out again not too long after he comes back. sadly i think you will be proven right
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 23, 2024 15:23:49 GMT 1
We took chances on crocks because we had no choice. It's a gamble we had to take this season. They would be cheap, and they have good potential when they are fit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2024 15:34:16 GMT 1
Jordan Rossiter is hopefully near enough ready for a return.
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Post by zenfootball on Sept 23, 2024 16:25:18 GMT 1
We took chances on crocks because we had no choice. It's a gamble we had to take this season. They would be cheap, and they have good potential when they are fit. i agree with a limited budget we did not have any choice. but most of the time its a gamble that does not pay off.
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