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Post by mattmw on Jun 27, 2024 12:55:21 GMT 1
How can anyone conceivably think a vote for the Lib Dems is in the best interests of this country. Simply no argument I feel the same about the tories and labour especially labour, it was like having Putin in charge last time they were around, what short memories some have, I bet the population of Iraq are fearing our version of the Taliban getting back in power Think it’s perfectly reasonable to blame the Blair government for Iraq and the subsequent problems in that part of the world, but that conflict ended in 2011 and Starmer didn’t even become an MP until 2015. Seems slightly tenuous to suggest the current Labour Party is planning another Iraq invasion Current Labour and Conservative policy on the Middle East is pretty similar, although I guess policy on the Isreal/Palistine conflict is the area of foreign policy that is likely to sway voters this time round |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 13:05:59 GMT 1
I feel the same about the tories and labour especially labour, it was like having Putin in charge last time they were around, what short memories some have, I bet the population of Iraq are fearing our version of the Taliban getting back in power Think it’s perfectly reasonable to blame the Blair government for Iraq and the subsequent problems in that part of the world, but that conflict ended in 2011 and Starmer didn’t even become an MP until 2015. Seems slightly tenuous to suggest the current Labour Party is planning another Iraq invasion Current Labour and Conservative policy on the Middle East is pretty similar, although I guess policy on the Isreal/Palistine conflict is the area of foreign policy that is likely to sway voters this time round thats not the point, how often do you return to a business/ brand that have previously let you down ? maybe its a garage with a new mechanic, or a restaurant with a new chef or they new slap new improved on the packet ? I dont think many even give them the light of day ever again Tony Blair set up new labour, what's this now then ? new improved labour ;-) over a million innocent deaths , nice you can forgive so easily then again Boris did eat some cake on his birthday so lets get our priorities right eh ;-0 |
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 27, 2024 13:38:56 GMT 1
I feel the same about the tories and labour especially labour, it was like having Putin in charge last time they were around, what short memories some have, I bet the population of Iraq are fearing our version of the Taliban getting back in power Out of the options available who would you prefere as PM? You've told us who you don't want, who do you want? That's the whole problem though isnt it. A huge percentage of voters are voting for someone they dont really think will do any good just so they dont vote for the other bloke who they think will be worse. No wonder loads of people think it's a total waste of time. |
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Post by mattmw on Jun 27, 2024 13:39:52 GMT 1
Think it’s perfectly reasonable to blame the Blair government for Iraq and the subsequent problems in that part of the world, but that conflict ended in 2011 and Starmer didn’t even become an MP until 2015. Seems slightly tenuous to suggest the current Labour Party is planning another Iraq invasion Current Labour and Conservative policy on the Middle East is pretty similar, although I guess policy on the Isreal/Palistine conflict is the area of foreign policy that is likely to sway voters this time round thats not the point, how often do you return to a business/ brand that have previously let you down ? maybe its a garage with a new mechanic, or a restaurant with a new chef or they new slap new improved on the packet ? I dont think many even give them the light of day ever again Tony Blair set up new labour, what's this now then ? new improved labour ;-) over a million innocent deaths , nice you can forgive so easily then again Boris did eat some cake on his birthday so lets get our priorities right eh ;-0 I get your point about past mistakes by political parties, but the second war in Iraq was also supported by the Conservative opposition at the time who voted to support it in Parliement too. Also totally take your point about the shocking loss of life in that region and isn't something that should be forgotten, especially in the destabalising the region since, which has resulted in further UK military action in that region since by the Con/Lib coalition and the later conservative governements. I guess my point is is how far back do you go in judging a political parties future policies on past actions, especially when those in charge are differnt people, and you would hope have learned from past mistakes their parties made. Looking at the manifesto's of the main parties most main parties policies in the military are to increase or maintain funding as percentage of GDP, with only the Greens looking to reduce it. And on middle east politics and Ukraine/Russian policy are pretty similar too. All political parties have made mistakes in the past I guess its how much credance we give to those past mistakes in future decision make, and that will be different for everyone. Alteratively we might just judge none of them can be trusted and don't vote at all. |
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 27, 2024 13:43:55 GMT 1
Out of the options available who would you prefere as PM? You've told us who you don't want, who do you want? im like you, I just spend all day telling everyone who not to vote for ;-) Not at all I’m voting g Labour although I’m not too keen on Starmer but then Cons had 5 PMs in the last 6 years so plenty of time to change. And you? |
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 27, 2024 13:46:11 GMT 1
Out of the options available who would you prefere as PM? You've told us who you don't want, who do you want? That's the whole problem though isnt it. A huge percentage of voters are voting for someone they dont really think will do any good just so they dont vote for the other bloke who they think will be worse. No wonder loads of people think it's a total waste of time. Whats that democracy? |
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Post by darkshrew on Jun 27, 2024 13:48:46 GMT 1
That's the whole problem though isnt it. A huge percentage of voters are voting for someone they dont really think will do any good just so they dont vote for the other bloke who they think will be worse. No wonder loads of people think it's a total waste of time. Whats that democracy? That's why we need proportional representation. |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 13:53:42 GMT 1
thats not the point, how often do you return to a business/ brand that have previously let you down ? maybe its a garage with a new mechanic, or a restaurant with a new chef or they new slap new improved on the packet ? I dont think many even give them the light of day ever again Tony Blair set up new labour, what's this now then ? new improved labour ;-) over a million innocent deaths , nice you can forgive so easily then again Boris did eat some cake on his birthday so lets get our priorities right eh ;-0 I get your point about past mistakes by political parties, but the second war in Iraq was also supported by the Conservative opposition at the time who voted to support it in Parliement too I guess my point is is how far back do you go in judging a political parties future policies on past actions glad you understand why I dont want labour or the tories in regards to your question my reply is how far back do you go ? because my reply is simple.....Lest we forget |
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Post by mattmw on Jun 27, 2024 14:02:26 GMT 1
I get your point about past mistakes by political parties, but the second war in Iraq was also supported by the Conservative opposition at the time who voted to support it in Parliement too I guess my point is is how far back do you go in judging a political parties future policies on past actions glad you understand why I dont want labour or the tories in regards to your question my reply is how far back do you go ? because my reply is simple.....Lest we forget Its a very fair point and appriciate your views on Iraq will be a significant current and future influencing factor in how you vote. Its really interesting hearing what values and issues B&A members are influenced by in this election. Something that did strike me in an article that I read recently was that over 2 million people will be voting this time who were 5 or younger, when there was last a Labour government, so for that age group something like the Iraq wars will just be a page in a history book, and its useful to refenece past policies of governments to keep past issues in new voters minds. |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 14:09:59 GMT 1
glad you understand why I dont want labour or the tories in regards to your question my reply is how far back do you go ? because my reply is simple.....Lest we forget Its a very fair point and appriciate your views on Iraq will be a significant current and future influencing factor in how you vote. Its really interesting hearing what values and issues B&A members are influenced by in this election. Something that did strike me in an article that I read recently was that over 2 million people will be voting this time who were 5 or younger, when there was last a Labour government, so for that age group something like the Iraq wars will just be a page in a history book, and its useful to refenece past policies of governments to keep past issues in new voters minds. maybe after the democratic election we could argue they didn't know what they were voting for and get it overturned |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 14:14:56 GMT 1
glad you understand why I dont want labour or the tories in regards to your question my reply is how far back do you go ? because my reply is simple.....Lest we forget Its a very fair point and appriciate your views on Iraq will be a significant current and future influencing factor in how you vote. Its really interesting hearing what values and issues B&A members are influenced by in this election. Something that did strike me in an article that I read recently was that over 2 million people will be voting this time who were 5 or younger, when there was last a Labour government, so for that age group something like the Iraq wars will just be a page in a history book, and its useful to refenece past policies of governments to keep past issues in new voters minds. there are some people are too busy point scoring to remember more recent events |
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Post by Dancin on Jun 27, 2024 14:42:29 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 15:23:45 GMT 1
I fear the very worst when Kier staremore takes over on July 5th🤦🤦🤦😞 I hope you didn't spend too long thinking up that little joke. |
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 15:25:09 GMT 1
How can anyone conceivably think a vote for the Lib Dems is in the best interests of this country. Simply no argument I feel the same about the tories and labour especially labour, it was like having Putin in charge last time they were around, what short memories some have, I bet the population of Iraq are fearing our version of the Taliban getting back in power Marbles finally lost, eh Pilch?  |
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 15:36:37 GMT 1
Tell us when you've something substantive to add, not just bullet points from Tory HQ. Odd post, have you watched the debate tonight? Probably not I imagine you vote based on blind loyalty. Sir Keir still can’t accurately say what a woman is. He’s a danger to women’s rights and safety. He has no plan on illegal inmigration and won’t speak about legal migration Sad state of affairs that this leader and party are going to get a record breaking majority - off less votes then Corbyn got in 2017!! Every point you made was straight out of Tory HQ, so it was hardly odd to point that out. I didn't watch the debate because I had better things to do (a bike ride on a glorious evening and then Georgia's stirring win). I place little value on these debates. It's rare that anything new or interesting is said and the head-to-head face offs are the least informative of all - play safe and (Sunak's forté) talk over the other guy. Do I vote out of blind loyalty? Do you? How many different parties have you ever voted for? I've voted for three. Crying about an anticipated majority for the party you oppose is laughable hypocrisy. Were you upset when Johnson won his huge majority in 2019? If you don't like it then campaign for a reformed electoral system fit for the 21st century (I have and still do) rather than whine when you see your favourites being on the wrong end of FPTP. The popular vote has never been crucial to election outcomes - nobody gets a majority there and seats won have never accurately reflected votes cast. |
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 15:38:50 GMT 1
How can anyone conceivably think a vote for the Lib Dems is in the best interests of this country. Simply no argument Explain. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 27, 2024 15:39:54 GMT 1
Odd post, have you watched the debate tonight? Probably not I imagine you vote based on blind loyalty. Sir Keir still can’t accurately say what a woman is. He’s a danger to women’s rights and safety. He has no plan on illegal inmigration and won’t speak about legal migration Sad state of affairs that this leader and party are going to get a record breaking majority - off less votes then Corbyn got in 2017!! Every point you made was straight out of Tory HQ, so it was hardly odd to point that out. I didn't watch the debate because I had better things to do (a bike ride on a glorious evening and then Georgia's stirring win). I place little value on these debates. It's rare that anything new or interesting is said and the head-to-head face offs are the least informative of all - play safe and (Sunak's forté) talk over the other guy. Do I vote out of blind loyalty? Do you? How many different parties have you ever voted for? I've voted for three. Crying about an anticipated majority for the party you oppose is laughable hypocrisy. Were you upset when Johnson won his huge majority in 2019? If you don't like it then campaign for a reformed electoral system fit for the 21st century (I have and still do) rather than whine when you see your favourites being on the wrong end of FPTP. The popular vote has never been crucial to election outcomes - nobody gets a majority there and seats won have never accurately reflected votes cast. Every point was straight of the obvious, staring everyone in the face, fact book I can't and won't forgive or forget a leader who less than 5 years ago supported a Brexit 2nd referendum, supported removing Trident defence, supported leaving Nato, supported a rank Anti-Semite... and many more vile things I'll be on to my 3rd next week too - we know Labour will win, but hoping for something of a surprise even so... |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 15:57:46 GMT 1
I feel the same about the tories and labour especially labour, it was like having Putin in charge last time they were around, what short memories some have, I bet the population of Iraq are fearing our version of the Taliban getting back in power Marbles finally lost, eh Pilch? maybe look a bit closer to home for your own marbles heres a labour MP who saw the light www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-67182063 |
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 27, 2024 16:01:36 GMT 1
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jun 27, 2024 16:17:52 GMT 1
Nothing in the article says it was from someone on the “left” could just as easily have been a reform/right voter? Deplorable none the less. |
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Post by servernaside on Jun 27, 2024 16:24:54 GMT 1
Starmer himself could hold up a bookies at gunpoint and some would find an excuse to still vote for him 😞 Maybe they could invade Russia , I heard a rumour they have weapons of mass destruction , or do they only pick on innocent countries and then conveniently stage the suicide for the guy who dreamt up the lie labour and tories should neither be allowed to participle in this election Unless you vote for the Labour candidate, Kawczynski might scrape in again. Tactical voting please! www.oddschecker.com/politics/uk-constituencies/next-uk-general-election-constituencies/shrewsburyWhat tactics would you suggest? 4-4-2 or 3-5-1-1 ? |
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Post by servernaside on Jun 27, 2024 16:26:12 GMT 1
Out of the options available who would you prefere as PM? You've told us who you don't want, who do you want? That's the whole problem though isnt it. A huge percentage of voters are voting for someone they dont really think will do any good just so they dont vote for the other bloke who they think will be worse. No wonder loads of people think it's a total waste of time. Agreed |
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Post by hectord0g137 on Jun 27, 2024 16:39:32 GMT 1
Whoever wins this election there will be more people dissatisfied with the result than are happy. Proportional representation may well help. I have a huge problem with the left as they make me feel I should be ashamed to be british. The right wing makes me annoyed by their intolerance of anyone who isn't british. What's the answer? Well if anyone knows i will vote for them
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 17:11:08 GMT 1
What's that meant to prove? It's hardly unique for opposing views to be held within the same party, especially on foreign affairs (remember brexit ......?) Starmer's a lawyer and was commenting on the legality of Israel's actions. I'm not an international lawyer (are you?) so I don't know what the technical position is, but I've long since thought Israel's actions exceeded any reasonable notion of self-defence and that Netanyahu should answer to the International Court of Justice. |
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Post by venceremos on Jun 27, 2024 17:13:04 GMT 1
Every point you made was straight out of Tory HQ, so it was hardly odd to point that out. I didn't watch the debate because I had better things to do (a bike ride on a glorious evening and then Georgia's stirring win). I place little value on these debates. It's rare that anything new or interesting is said and the head-to-head face offs are the least informative of all - play safe and (Sunak's forté) talk over the other guy. Do I vote out of blind loyalty? Do you? How many different parties have you ever voted for? I've voted for three. Crying about an anticipated majority for the party you oppose is laughable hypocrisy. Were you upset when Johnson won his huge majority in 2019? If you don't like it then campaign for a reformed electoral system fit for the 21st century (I have and still do) rather than whine when you see your favourites being on the wrong end of FPTP. The popular vote has never been crucial to election outcomes - nobody gets a majority there and seats won have never accurately reflected votes cast. Every point was straight of the obvious, staring everyone in the face, fact book Eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 18:14:47 GMT 1
Okay, where to begin.
Let's start with Pilch and his inability to get over the Iraq war. As I have pointed out to him on many occasions without the almost unanimous support of the Tories and the DUP the vote would have been lost. 153 Labour MPs either voted no or abstained, strangely enough the names Corbyn and Abbott were among them. 52 Lib Dem MPs voted no. 1 Tory voted no, with 17 abstentions. Blair is responsible, but those Tories who voted with are IMO equally culpable.
So far 1 Labour candidate is being investigated for betting against himself. There are currently 15 Tory candidates being investigated, including one who bet £8,000 on him losing his seat.
The political structure in this country is broken. There are 3 countries in Europe that use FPTP, the UK, Russia and Belarus, the latter two hardly being poster boys of democracy. The sooner we move to a system of PR the better. As it is we have 10-15 years of one party doing okay for a while and then making a pigs ear of everything, followed by the other lot doing the very same thing. Granted PR is not some sort of panacea that is going to fix everything in the country and under any other system the likes of Farage and his brown shirts would gain quite a few MPs, but so would the Greens.
All I can say to anyone that wants the Tories gone is to vote tactically. If you're in Shrewsbury, Telford or the Wrekin vote Labour, if you're in North or South Shropshire vote Lib Dem.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 18:41:59 GMT 1
Okay, where to begin. Let's start with Pilch and his inability to get over the Iraq war. As I have pointed out to him on many occasions without the almost unanimous support of the Tories and the DUP the vote would have been lost. 153 Labour MPs either voted no or abstained, strangely enough the names Corbyn and Abbott were among them. 52 Lib Dem MPs voted no. 1 Tory voted no, with 17 abstentions. Blair is responsible, but those Tories who voted with are IMO equally culpable. So far 1 Labour candidate is being investigated for betting against himself. There are currently 15 Tory candidates being investigated, including one who bet £8,000 on him losing his seat. The political structure in this country is broken. There are 3 countries in Europe that use FPTP, the UK, Russia and Belarus, the latter two hardly being poster boys of democracy. The sooner we move to a system of PR the better. As it is we have 10-15 years of one party doing okay for a while and then making a pigs ear of everything, followed by the other lot doing the very same thing. Granted PR is not some sort of panacea that is going to fix everything in the country and under any other system the likes of Farage and his brown shirts would gain quite a few MPs, but so would the Greens. All I can say to anyone that wants the Tories gone is to vote tactically. If you're in Shrewsbury, Telford or the Wrekin vote Labour, if you're in North or South Shropshire vote Lib Dem. You are the guy that moans about brexit , you know the thing that needed labour to vote for to allow it to go ahead Ill just remind you I don't vote for either , what's your excuse ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 19:14:18 GMT 1
Okay, where to begin. Let's start with Pilch and his inability to get over the Iraq war. As I have pointed out to him on many occasions without the almost unanimous support of the Tories and the DUP the vote would have been lost. 153 Labour MPs either voted no or abstained, strangely enough the names Corbyn and Abbott were among them. 52 Lib Dem MPs voted no. 1 Tory voted no, with 17 abstentions. Blair is responsible, but those Tories who voted with are IMO equally culpable. So far 1 Labour candidate is being investigated for betting against himself. There are currently 15 Tory candidates being investigated, including one who bet £8,000 on him losing his seat. The political structure in this country is broken. There are 3 countries in Europe that use FPTP, the UK, Russia and Belarus, the latter two hardly being poster boys of democracy. The sooner we move to a system of PR the better. As it is we have 10-15 years of one party doing okay for a while and then making a pigs ear of everything, followed by the other lot doing the very same thing. Granted PR is not some sort of panacea that is going to fix everything in the country and under any other system the likes of Farage and his brown shirts would gain quite a few MPs, but so would the Greens. All I can say to anyone that wants the Tories gone is to vote tactically. If you're in Shrewsbury, Telford or the Wrekin vote Labour, if you're in North or South Shropshire vote Lib Dem. You are the guy that moans about brexit , you know the thing that needed labour to vote for to allow it to go ahead Ill just remind you I don't vote for either , what's your excuse ? MPs from all parties campaigned on Brexit, either for or against. Your stubborn refusal to accept that the Iraq war wasn't only a Labour policy is ridiculous, as is your constant blaming of 2024 Labour for the 2003 Labour government. Honest question mate , it would be nice to get an honest answer. Is Israel right to be continuing the slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza? Please don't go off on a tangent or try to twist the question around, just give us a straight answer. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 27, 2024 19:29:12 GMT 1
Oh great Gaza brought on another UK (yes UK!) election thread ffs 🙄
Last time I looked the terrorist group Hamas were still holding hundreds of hostages - why don’t they start by freeing them
Happy for these posts to go to off topic thread as like 95% of the UK, I doubt Gaza comes close to people’s mind on here when casting a vote at a UK election - especially given the mountain of problems we face at home
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Post by Pilch on Jun 27, 2024 19:30:52 GMT 1
You are the guy that moans about brexit , you know the thing that needed labour to vote for to allow it to go ahead Ill just remind you I don't vote for either , what's your excuse ? MPs from all parties campaigned on Brexit, either for or against. Your stubborn refusal to accept that the Iraq war wasn't only a Labour policy is ridiculous, as is your constant blaming of 2024 Labour for the 2003 Labour government. Honest question mate , it would be nice to get an honest answer. Is Israel right to be continuing the slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza? Please don't go off on a tangent or try to twist the question around, just give us a straight answer. I know its been mentioned on here dozens of times in recent times but can someone remind me where the buck stops ? Labour were in charge of the country between 1997 & 2010 and you still blame the tories , lets get labour back in maybe they could redeem themselves and go and find those WOMD ;-) |
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