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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Feb 29, 2024 22:08:34 GMT 1
Although I've been a critic of MM I guess the role should involve bringing in talented youngsters that are just that, and not expect every signing to be L1 ready as soon as they sign. Work with them for a year or two to get the best out of them and likely sell them on for decent money.
But you do need to sign some L1 ready players as well which we havnt really done hence the likes of Mata and Sobowala being thrown in and expected to be up to scratch from day 1.
MM has certainly underachieved so far though so needs to improve hugely for me to think he should be kept on.
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Post by suttonshrew on Feb 29, 2024 22:17:36 GMT 1
If you look back to the summer appointing a DoF made sense, we had just come out of a season of massive spending, we didnt really have anyone at the club with exception of the chairman to headhunt a new manager/coach we had also lost our head of academy to Burnley.
I still think MM has a huge role to play here but I suspect his remit will change slightly if he stays to focus more on upcoming talent like Sobowala and Sarha, leaving Hursty to focus on 1st team squad players. It’s also important to remember the links PH had with the academy last time with Shelis and Mcatee both playing in the first team at times.
Regardless of what happens with the first team we need someone above PH in a more footballing ceo role, I don’t know if Liam has done this before but get the feeling he’s been brought in to focus on finances and commercial, that leaves a hole on the footballing management team regards contracts, negotiations etc which MM can do and I’d be more than happy him overseeing that role.
As dibblydobbly says we haven’t yet seen how he uses a decent budget so personally I feel it’s unfair to judge as it seems he’s had both arms and legs tied so far
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Feb 29, 2024 22:21:46 GMT 1
As dibblydobbly says we haven’t yet seen how he uses a decent budget so personally I feel it’s unfair to judge as it seems he’s had both arms and legs tied so far He was brought in though at a time he’d have been well aware of our budget constraints and presumably because he was good at working to a modest budget at Cheltenham? Also if we wait until he gets a decent budget before judging we might be waiting a while… When there’s less budget recruitment becomes even more important as you simply can’t afford failures, and we’ve had far too many of them.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 29, 2024 22:28:36 GMT 1
As dibblydobbly says we haven’t yet seen how he uses a decent budget so personally I feel it’s unfair to judge as it seems he’s had both arms and legs tied so far He was brought in though at a time he’d have been well aware of our budget constraints and presumably because he was good at working to a modest budget at Cheltenham? Also if we wait until he gets a decent budget before judging we might be waiting a while… When there’s less budget recruitment becomes even more important as you simply can’t afford failures, and we’ve had far too many of them. maybe he should have bought just 2 more championship players with the budget he had remaining, and done away with a squad like ive said, give me £20 to go and buy Sunday dinner, I'll come back with a piece of fillet steak that cost me £18 , hand you £2 and ask you to pop out and buy the rest do you see where the 2 big problems are there ? no thought not, I'll spell it out 1, we have previously overspent on wages on too few squad players 2, we dont have an adequate budget to fill the rest of the squad to league one standard 3, we start from 'norma conditionsl' next season, maybe judge in 12 months
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Post by ProudSalopian on Feb 29, 2024 22:45:42 GMT 1
Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and no one should be shouted down for defending the club. But at the risk of sounding like a 'he started it', let's not try and try and make this out to be one way street.
This season fans have questioned various things in a constructive manner, it's a football messageboard so that doesn't seem unreasonable does it? But in responses they (we) have had to hear stop crying, stop whinging, you are anti-town fans, we don't want your sort, your all in denial, you are unrealistic, you are fickle and various other nonsense. By all means disagree with what I've said, but instead of being able to debate why Mickey Moore is the right man for the club or why Roland is still the best person to lead the club, it normally becomes "but Steve Cotterill spent loads last season"
Moore came in knowing our situation, he's wasted what little money we have in both recruitment of managers and players. As I've said I hope he becomes a success but he hasn't got off to a good start
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Feb 29, 2024 22:56:20 GMT 1
He was brought in though at a time he’d have been well aware of our budget constraints and presumably because he was good at working to a modest budget at Cheltenham? Also if we wait until he gets a decent budget before judging we might be waiting a while… When there’s less budget recruitment becomes even more important as you simply can’t afford failures, and we’ve had far too many of them. maybe he should have bought just 2 more championship players with the budget he had remaining, and done away with a squad like ive said, give me £20 to go and buy Sunday dinner, I'll come back with a piece of fillet steak that cost me £18 , hand you £2 and ask you to pop out and buy the rest do you see where the 2 big problems are there ? no thought not, I'll spell it out 1, we have previously overspent on wages on too few squad players 2, we dont have an adequate budget to fill the rest of the squad to league one standard 3, we start from 'norma conditionsl' next season, maybe judge in 12 months I’m sure there was plenty of players available for the alleged £150k we spent on Max Mata. I’m also sure that low finances don’t obligate you to sign crocked loan strikers. Or vastly outbidding Carlisle for Feeney. And I doubt Winchester came cheap. There’s inconsistencies. There are some mitigating circumstances but not a cat in hells chance he’s maximised his role so I don’t see why you think he’s exempt from criticism.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 29, 2024 22:59:26 GMT 1
Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and no one should be shouted down for defending the club. But at the risk of sounding like a 'he started it', let's not try and try and make this out to be one way street. This season fans have questioned various things in a constructive manner, it's a football messageboard so that doesn't seem unreasonable does it? But in responses they (we) have had to hear stop crying, stop whinging, you are anti-town fans, we don't want your sort, your all in denial, you are unrealistic, you are fickle and various other nonsense. By all means disagree with what I've said, but instead of being able to debate why Mickey Moore is the right man for the club or why Roland is still the best person to lead the club, it normally becomes "but Steve Cotterill spent loads last season" Moore came in knowing our situation, he's wasted what little money we have in both recruitment of managers and players. As I've said I hope he becomes a success but he hasn't got off to a good start I agree, most have put forward reasons why they think Moore is underperforming, looking at paying for striker then loaning him back when we're skint, etc etc. The debate doesn't work the other way, you're just anti-town, anti-club, moaner, stop crying ... no actual debate, just insults!
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Post by Pilch on Feb 29, 2024 23:09:03 GMT 1
maybe he should have bought just 2 more championship players with the budget he had remaining, and done away with a squad like ive said, give me £20 to go and buy Sunday dinner, I'll come back with a piece of fillet steak that cost me £18 , hand you £2 and ask you to pop out and buy the rest do you see where the 2 big problems are there ? no thought not, I'll spell it out 1, we have previously overspent on wages on too few squad players 2, we dont have an adequate budget to fill the rest of the squad to league one standard 3, we start from 'norma conditionsl' next season, maybe judge in 12 months I’m sure there was plenty of players available for the alleged £150k we spent on Max Mata. I’m also sure that low finances don’t obligate you to sign crocked loan strikers. Or vastly outbidding Carlisle for Feeney. And I doubt Winchester came cheap. There’s inconsistencies. There are some mitigating circumstances but not a cat in hells chance he’s maximised his role so I don’t see why you think he’s exempt from criticism. who alleged that we spent £150k on mata ? who did we vastly outbid for feeney and how much ? what did fans say the day he signed ?, his position is CB, he got injured and due to other injuries has had to fill in Winchester is fantastic as far as im concerned, and probably on less than last year. ( just my hunch ) 2 windows, so far 18th in table cotterill managed 18th after 3 windows this thread is pathetic, you just need to moan for the sake of it
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 29, 2024 23:15:01 GMT 1
maybe he should have bought just 2 more championship players with the budget he had remaining, and done away with a squad like ive said, give me £20 to go and buy Sunday dinner, I'll come back with a piece of fillet steak that cost me £18 , hand you £2 and ask you to pop out and buy the rest do you see where the 2 big problems are there ? no thought not, I'll spell it out 1, we have previously overspent on wages on too few squad players 2, we dont have an adequate budget to fill the rest of the squad to league one standard 3, we start from 'norma conditionsl' next season, maybe judge in 12 months I’m sure there was plenty of players available for the alleged £150k we spent on Max Mata. I’m also sure that low finances don’t obligate you to sign crocked loan strikers. Or vastly outbidding Carlisle for Feeney. And I doubt Winchester came cheap. There’s inconsistencies. There are some mitigating circumstances but not a cat in hells chance he’s maximised his role so I don’t see why you think he’s exempt from criticism. I was told Mata was €100,000, so about £85,000 give or take. Cheap punt under normal circumstances, but potentially not if we're skint. Feeney was on £600 a week at Carlisle, a covid-style contract with a triggered option. The whole Carlisle promotion squad was put together on a shoe-string! I'd be shocked if we haven't at minimum tripled the £600, if not quadrupled it.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 29, 2024 23:30:48 GMT 1
roll up roll up anyone else want a wild guess at the price for mata, can we limit it to 1 wild guess each please you can have a shot at feeneys wages too, so far we've blown Carlisles £600 offer out of the water
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 29, 2024 23:42:38 GMT 1
I’m sure there was plenty of players available for the alleged £150k we spent on Max Mata. I’m also sure that low finances don’t obligate you to sign crocked loan strikers. Or vastly outbidding Carlisle for Feeney. And I doubt Winchester came cheap. There’s inconsistencies. There are some mitigating circumstances but not a cat in hells chance he’s maximised his role so I don’t see why you think he’s exempt from criticism. I was told Mata was €100,000, so about £85,000 give or take. Cheap punt under normal circumstances, but potentially not if we're skint. Feeney was on £600 a week at Carlisle, a covid-style contract with a triggered option. The whole Carlisle promotion squad was put together on a shoe-string! I'd be shocked if we haven't at minimum tripled the £600, if not quadrupled it. I assume MM was tight fisted with Cheltenham's cash. I assume Roland brought him in to be tight fisted with ours. Therefore, I assume he was somewhat less free with the dosh than these rumours.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 29, 2024 23:51:13 GMT 1
I was told Mata was €100,000, so about £85,000 give or take. Cheap punt under normal circumstances, but potentially not if we're skint. Feeney was on £600 a week at Carlisle, a covid-style contract with a triggered option. The whole Carlisle promotion squad was put together on a shoe-string! I'd be shocked if we haven't at minimum tripled the £600, if not quadrupled it. I assume MM was tight fisted with Cheltenham's cash. I assume Roland brought him in to be tight fisted with ours. Therefore, I assume he was somewhat less free with the dosh than these rumours. The Mata fee can be debated. Feeney was definitely on £600 a week at Carlisle. What he's on here is up for debate, my guess is just over triple that £600.
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Post by hectord0g137 on Feb 29, 2024 23:59:08 GMT 1
Just watched Moneyball a film about running a baseball team on a shoestring. Some salient points on there. Happy to help.......out
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Post by mrcricket on Mar 1, 2024 1:36:42 GMT 1
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Post by BlueAndAmber50 on Mar 1, 2024 6:58:34 GMT 1
USUALLY these sort of things are rubbish. But from a quick glance there’s a fair few on there that I suspect are pretty accurate/close. Bowman’s new contract in summer will definitely be alot less than his previous when we paid the fee though.
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Kiwi
Shropshire County League
Posts: 39
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Post by Kiwi on Mar 1, 2024 7:53:49 GMT 1
Without knowing all the ins and outs of his role hard for me to say one way or the other but I feel it has the ability to work with PH and his staff.
I would say that we won't really know how this partnership between MM & PH will work untill they have a full transfer window together, I do think had PH been head coach/manager at the start of summer some of the signings may not have happened but regardless aslong as there are here representing our club I wish them all the best.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2024 8:07:21 GMT 1
Lol can of worms alright this is the joke site someone accused me of relying on , I've only ever laughed at this site 🤩🤩
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Post by secretshrew on Mar 1, 2024 8:44:01 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!!
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2024 9:06:06 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!! that's why people start these type of threads , because they want a guaranteed row when someone dares to post in favour of the club
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PHBA
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 102
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Post by PHBA on Mar 1, 2024 9:12:03 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!! that's why people start these type of threads , because they want a guaranteed row when someone dares to post in favour of the club Strange take there, Pilch. That wasn't my agenda whatsoever.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2024 9:13:26 GMT 1
And there we have it. Another sensible, developing thread completely hi-jacked and ruined by the straw man argument of the clubs B&A representatives ( entirely deliberately) because it dare to question anything to do with the clubs structure / governance. B&A is rapidly turning into Boardroom& Amber by the day. You really are a hypocrite jamo , for decades you clearly obtained info from inside the club , and proudly posted as TWOTS , you did so anonymously for years until Someone worked out who you were , and then your last 3 or 4 threads have turned out to be wrong , so what do you do , you go all out on the attack at anyone who now posts the kind of stuff you used to , calling them all sorts of names , accusing them of this and that , don't believe them etc get a grip pal As for New Year's resolutions , they were serious but the likes of yourself who ignored it , saw it as a challenge to disrupt , well congratulations
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 1, 2024 9:40:48 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!! that's why people start these type of threads , because they want a guaranteed row when someone dares to post in favour of the club They’re never disappointed 😂
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Mar 1, 2024 9:48:33 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!! that's why people start these type of threads , because they want a guaranteed row when someone dares to post in favour of the club To be fair Pilch, look at your first three posts in this thread, they weren’t ‘posts in favour of the club’ they were just mocking your fellow supporters. The New Year’s resolutions have mostly worked well and I’ve tried to comply, but reserve my right to have critical opinions about the club.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 1, 2024 9:55:19 GMT 1
A lot of willy waving on here, just give your opinions and move on.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 1, 2024 9:56:51 GMT 1
I see the New Years amnesty is going well 😂 We made it to March!!!! Kids are out to play. Hopefully they’ve said their bit now.
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Post by pughywasfree on Mar 1, 2024 10:06:57 GMT 1
I cut Moore some slack this season. We brought in some decent loan players that we was all excited about. They would not have come cheaply but we never got to see how well they would have turned out as they spent most of the season injured before being sent back.
Then we have the punts on the Irish players that we all liked the sound of when they signed but got put into a system and tactics that were (lets face it) pretty awful.
January came and we was on the hunt for a striker until MT was sacked so then had to change our target to midfielders.
It is impossible to know without the accurate figures but I can imagine some of the players from last season take up a big portion of the wage budget so we have had to do the best we can with what is left. We also have O'Brien who will be on a decent wack but is totally disinterested and had a strop out on loan for most of the season.
Don't we have a head of recruitment now? isn't it on him the standard of players we recruit. Moore's job is just to get them to sign the contract I believe?
None of us know what Moore does behind the scenes or how good he is at it. I have not heard any grumbles about his character and I fully expect RW is keeping a very close eye on every aspect of the club now after his fingers were burnt and I trust him to make the right decisions.
For those saying Hurst is great at recruiting so should be responsible for it I would argue that he just got very very lucky with recruitment last time and fluked a winning formula. His recruitment at Ipswich was terrible and it all went to pot at Grimsby so he isn't perfect.
This season has been a poor from the moment the last one ended in most aspects but if we can stumble our way to safety then next season is something to look forward to.
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Post by Exkeeper on Mar 1, 2024 10:09:26 GMT 1
Back to topic. I am sure that most of us can see that we bought some duds in the summer; without knowing length of contracts, my worry is how do we offload them without another financial loss? What sort of costs have the club incurred already in paying off Taylor and Bignot. These were not Cotterill signings!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 1, 2024 10:16:24 GMT 1
We can argue all day about how much Mata cost but the fact is he was brought into the club, he was brought in as a forward to score goals (a position that had added importance considering our goal scoring record), he cost something, he is earning a wage, he's taking up room in the squad (or was) and he's been sent on loan after only a few months after scoring 1 goal.
It was a poor signing and in a position where we don't have an awful lot of room for mistakes considering the alternatives available.
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Post by Exkeeper on Mar 1, 2024 10:25:09 GMT 1
We can argue all day about how much Mata cost but the fact is he was brought into the club, he was brought in as a forward to score goals (a position that had added importance considering our goal scoring record), he cost something, he is earning a wage, he's taking up room in the squad (or was) and he's been sent on loan after only a few months after scoring 1 goal. It was a poor signing. And as I mention above, in a position where we don't have an awful lot of room for mistakes considering the alternatives available. I like to judge players after at least half a dozen games but I was almost convinced after 3 or 4 matches that Mata was a long way short of L1 standard and was going to take a while (if ever) to reach that level. Just a personal opinion but I voiced it at the time when he kept getting a starting slot.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Mar 1, 2024 10:30:01 GMT 1
Back to topic. I am sure that most of us can see that we bought some duds in the summer; without knowing length of contracts, my worry is how do we offload them without another financial loss? What sort of costs have the club incurred already in paying off Taylor and Bignot. These were not Cotterill signings! "How do we offload them without another financial loss". Simple, you cant sadly. Let's hope PH can see some potential to work on improving them a little.
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