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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 18, 2023 20:29:23 GMT 1
I don't think it's crazy if people adhere to that 30mph speed limit. It's always best if a law can be accepted and considered reasonable and I think we are just about getting to that point with 30 mph and 20 outside schools. I don't think it's crazy when drivers know the engine speed which corresponds with 30mph and don't have to be distracted checking their speed. I don't think It's crazy when pedestrians also have an inate idea of how fast a car will be on them at 30, but don't have any idea of how fast a car going around 20 will get to them. I have an idea how fast a car going at 20 might get to me as opposed to one at 30. The one at 20 will probably get to me slower... But 'ow much slower? Not by working it out, just by your experience as you stand roadside wondering if you can safely cross.
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Post by vladimir on Sept 18, 2023 20:34:39 GMT 1
I have an idea how fast a car going at 20 might get to me as opposed to one at 30. The one at 20 will probably get to me slower... But 'ow much slower? Not by working it out, just by your experience as you stand roadside wondering if you can safely cross. If I wouldnt cross when it was 30 I still wouldn't cross with it at 20. But then again if I did im now far more likely to survive impact which was the point of this new regulation rather than it being introduced to induce more dangerous crossings.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 18, 2023 21:38:58 GMT 1
Your chance to (finally) have your vote on whether its sensible to reduce to 20 mph. I've signed, and guess a lot of others will do so too. The numbers are growing very fast, not surprisingly. petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548Numbers growing fast. I signed at 64,000 at lunchtime. About 9 hours later it's at 108,000. Close to 45,000 in 9 hours, guess this is going to get huge numbers over the next few days as the petition gets known about. Share it far and wide folks. Not that the dickhead in charge over the border will take any notice, well maybe not till election time anyway.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 18, 2023 21:45:44 GMT 1
I've got a couple of weeks off coming up, now over the years ive always , nearly always headed for Wales, I love the place, saying that my only ever speeding ticket was in Wales, and I got stitched up , so the last place on earth im going in a couple of weeks is Wales , drop in the ocean maybe but their reputation with me is already tarnished
looking for 5 nights, oct 1st to 6th, if anyone has anywhere they want t bring to my attention pm me, im open to offers, been looking online, some decent trip abroad actually, nice place in Oxford would be ok ;-)
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Post by scooter on Sept 19, 2023 9:36:25 GMT 1
I've got a couple of weeks off coming up, now over the years ive always , nearly always headed for Wales, I love the place, saying that my only ever speeding ticket was in Wales, and I got stitched up , so the last place on earth im going in a couple of weeks is Wales , drop in the ocean maybe but their reputation with me is already tarnished looking for 5 nights, oct 1st to 6th, if anyone has anywhere they want t bring to my attention pm me, im open to offers, been looking online, some decent trip abroad actually, nice place in Oxford would be ok ;-) You’ve got free rail travel. Go to Wales and leave the car at home.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 19, 2023 10:08:00 GMT 1
I've got a couple of weeks off coming up, now over the years ive always , nearly always headed for Wales, I love the place, saying that my only ever speeding ticket was in Wales, and I got stitched up , so the last place on earth im going in a couple of weeks is Wales , drop in the ocean maybe but their reputation with me is already tarnished looking for 5 nights, oct 1st to 6th, if anyone has anywhere they want t bring to my attention pm me, im open to offers, been looking online, some decent trip abroad actually, nice place in Oxford would be ok ;-) I'd never even considered Butlins in my entire life, but had five days at Skegness in June, a chalet for £85 off peak. Weather was fantastic, seafood platter on the front at skeggy wth no pestering seagulls, swimming in the sea at a beach around there. Soon learned to ditch the car and travel on the open top busses as they charge £8 parking in Skegness.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Sept 19, 2023 11:23:17 GMT 1
I've got a couple of weeks off coming up, now over the years ive always , nearly always headed for Wales, I love the place, saying that my only ever speeding ticket was in Wales, and I got stitched up , so the last place on earth im going in a couple of weeks is Wales , drop in the ocean maybe but their reputation with me is already tarnished looking for 5 nights, oct 1st to 6th, if anyone has anywhere they want t bring to my attention pm me, im open to offers, been looking online, some decent trip abroad actually, nice place in Oxford would be ok ;-) Good luck with trying to drive at 20mph in Oxford 😀
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Post by servernaside on Sept 19, 2023 13:02:47 GMT 1
They all do it of course, but Labour are far worse. Of course they are mate. 🙄 Glad you agree.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 19, 2023 16:47:24 GMT 1
Just come back from sampling the new 20 m.p.h speed limits myself.
Coming up the hill out of Flint, most cars were doing 30 m.p.h. as the only known location for the Arrive Alive van is near the school, where most would slow to 20 m.p.h anyway.
I decided to avoid Northop, Sychdyn, Mold and Caergwrle as all have been turned into 20 m.p.h areas, so I the A55 option and rejoined the road to Wrexham at Cefyn Y Bedd, having taken the necessary detour road past Penyffordd and Hope.
There was a 20 m.ph limit at the lights at Cefyn Y Bedd for about 100 yards, then my next obstacle was at Gwersyllt where the already crazy 30 m.p.h.limit (crash barriers in place, no houses) had nevertheless been reduced to 20 m.p.h.
Onto the Wrexham bypass meant that Overton was the only 20 m.p.h. restriction left before I crossed the border into England.
Over 185,000 signatures on that petition, including well over 100,000 today.
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Sept 19, 2023 16:50:53 GMT 1
Hadn't appreciated it didn't extend to cyclists!!
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Post by venceremos on Sept 19, 2023 17:08:10 GMT 1
Yeah, that wasn't my point. You were asking what the speeds might be of the hypothetical drivers who won't kill 6-10 people in the projections. So, erm, they're hypothetical. Of course some go over 30 now, just as they go over 40, 50, 60 and 70. I expect everyone has at some point. But few go at 45 in a 30 zone, and I expect few will go at 35 in a 20 zone. How many overtake in a 30mph zone now? Hardly ever see it. I doubt that more will do so in a 20mph zone. It changes behaviours. Not everyone's obviously but the perception shifts. The idea that a 30mph speed limit is somehow safer than 20mph is crazy. I don't think it's crazy if people adhere to that 30mph speed limit. It's always best if a law can be accepted and considered reasonable and I think we are just about getting to that point with 30 mph and 20 outside schools. I don't think it's crazy when drivers know the engine speed which corresponds with 30mph and don't have to be distracted checking their speed. I don't think It's crazy when pedestrians also have an inate idea of how fast a car will be on them at 30, but don't have any idea of how fast a car going around 20 will get to them. It'll be interesting to see how many bamboozled pedestrians are mown down by vehicles moving at 20mph because they just couldn't tell the car was moving more slowly than they were used to. Marvellous. PS If checking their speed distracts a driver, they shouldn't be driving in the first place.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 19, 2023 17:23:36 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 19, 2023 18:06:46 GMT 1
He was testing his eyesight perhaps? Should have gone to Specsavers...
The first one " done" for exceedig 20 will hopefully be one of those who brought it in.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 19, 2023 18:07:51 GMT 1
Your chance to (finally) have your vote on whether its sensible to reduce to 20 mph. I've signed, and guess a lot of others will do so too. The numbers are growing very fast, not surprisingly. petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548Numbers growing fast. I signed at 64,000 at lunchtime. About 9 hours later it's at 108,000. Close to 45,000 in 9 hours, guess this is going to get huge numbers over the next few days as the petition gets known about. Share it far and wide folks. Not that the dickhead in charge over the border will take any notice, well maybe not till election time anyway. Numbers are about to go over 200,000 very soon. Lot of feeling against this, will Mr D Head listen? Not a chance.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 19, 2023 19:02:34 GMT 1
He was testing his eyesight perhaps? Should have gone to Specsavers...
The first one " done" for exceedig 20 will hopefully be one of those who brought it in.
Well, it won't be Drakeford. Apparently, he doesn't drive.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 19, 2023 19:07:10 GMT 1
Numbers growing fast. I signed at 64,000 at lunchtime. About 9 hours later it's at 108,000. Close to 45,000 in 9 hours, guess this is going to get huge numbers over the next few days as the petition gets known about. Share it far and wide folks. Not that the dickhead in charge over the border will take any notice, well maybe not till election time anyway. Numbers are about to go over 200,000 very soon. Lot of feeling against this, will Mr D Head listen? Not a chance. No, their latest tactic is to claim that a large % of the signatures come from England. This is complete rubbish as the Welsh Government's own records show that 96% of the signatures come from Wales. Incidentally, Lee Waters could have at least 4 houses in Wales that he owns. I thought the Welsh Government wasn't over enthusiastic about second homes. Presumably that only applies if the owner is English!
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 9:57:52 GMT 1
Over 266,000 have signed the petition now. All time record.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 20, 2023 10:20:55 GMT 1
Over 266,000 have signed the petition now. All time record. Will go much higher yet. Look at the number that have signed for just a few seconds and another 25/30 getting added all the time. Politicians often get things wrong, but they dont usually get it THIS wrong. Hopefully his party pay for this big time at their bect elections.
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Post by mattmw on Sept 20, 2023 10:34:21 GMT 1
Whilst I'm slightly sceptical about the 20mph introduction the petition is really rather a blunt tool for making any change. All it will generate is a debate in the Senedd and with Labour having a majority the vote by some margin is going to get voted down. The next National vote isn't until 2025 so national politicians are unlikely to make a change in the short term
A better bet would be to target the Local Councils in Wales as they have the ability to not implement the 20mph zones and retain the 30mph (as many already have), and with around half of Councils in Wales in no overall control there is more scope for local politicians to work together and change the speed limit. If enough Councils do it then the national policy effectively doesn't work any more. Setting speed limits based on local views is probably a better way of going about it too as you are more likely to get buy in to new schemes if people have been involved in the debate about setting the limit
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 10:58:56 GMT 1
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Post by chirkshrew on Sept 20, 2023 13:36:39 GMT 1
All good here in Chirk, lovely and calm,sauntering along through the village....... mind you I was walking!!!👍😀😂😉
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 20, 2023 15:19:14 GMT 1
All good here in Chirk, lovely and calm,sauntering along through the village....... mind you I was walking!!!👍😀😂😉 Hope you didnt pee too many motorists off by overtaking them.....
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Post by jamo on Sept 20, 2023 15:32:15 GMT 1
I have just returned from some time way in East Lothian and The Borders, almost exclusively, every village we travelled through - and a fair few urban areas also, were all 20 MPH limits. Everything worked fine and people were just getting on with their day.
I suspect that once the initial period of everyone exercising their right to be outraged has passed, the same situation will prevail in Wales.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Sept 20, 2023 16:44:49 GMT 1
Whilst I'm slightly sceptical about the 20mph introduction the petition is really rather a blunt tool for making any change. All it will generate is a debate in the Senedd and with Labour having a majority the vote by some margin is going to get voted down. The next National vote isn't until 2025 so national politicians are unlikely to make a change in the short term A better bet would be to target the Local Councils in Wales as they have the ability to not implement the 20mph zones and retain the 30mph (as many already have), and with around half of Councils in Wales in no overall control there is more scope for local politicians to work together and change the speed limit. If enough Councils do it then the national policy effectively doesn't work any more. Setting speed limits based on local views is probably a better way of going about it too as you are more likely to get buy in to new schemes if people have been involved in the debate about setting the limit The more local democracy the better in my opinion. The surveys of areas where LTNs have been introduced show local residents very much in favour, so a local vote on 20mph zones may not produce the results the Mr Toads expect.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 16:56:34 GMT 1
Whilst I'm slightly sceptical about the 20mph introduction the petition is really rather a blunt tool for making any change. All it will generate is a debate in the Senedd and with Labour having a majority the vote by some margin is going to get voted down. The next National vote isn't until 2025 so national politicians are unlikely to make a change in the short term A better bet would be to target the Local Councils in Wales as they have the ability to not implement the 20mph zones and retain the 30mph (as many already have), and with around half of Councils in Wales in no overall control there is more scope for local politicians to work together and change the speed limit. If enough Councils do it then the national policy effectively doesn't work any more. Setting speed limits based on local views is probably a better way of going about it too as you are more likely to get buy in to new schemes if people have been involved in the debate about setting the limit The more local democracy the better in my opinion. The surveys of areas where LTNs have been introduced show local residents very much in favour, so a local vote on 20mph zones may not produce the results the Mr Toads expect. I disagree vehemently. Particularly in North Wales, where the pilot scheme in Buckley was such a resounding failure that even my nemesis Lee Waters had to admit defeat.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 20, 2023 17:05:15 GMT 1
Numbers growing fast. I signed at 64,000 at lunchtime. About 9 hours later it's at 108,000. Close to 45,000 in 9 hours, guess this is going to get huge numbers over the next few days as the petition gets known about. Share it far and wide folks. Not that the dickhead in charge over the border will take any notice, well maybe not till election time anyway. Numbers are about to go over 200,000 very soon. Lot of feeling against this, will Mr D Head listen? Not a chance. 100,000 added in just 22 hours. Just about to go over 300,000 very soon. The more the better.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 17:12:18 GMT 1
As for surveys, it depends how they are structured.
They could phrase their questions in such a way as to guarantee the answer, weaponizing safety concerns against motorists. In other words, you can't always trust some of these surveys.
For example, if you make the whole thing hinge around 'Do you agree with measures that would reduce road deaths and casualties'. Nobody's going to answer no, and you know everyone's going to answer yes.
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Post by chirkshrew on Sept 20, 2023 17:19:13 GMT 1
😂😂you know what grizzly.... I could of done quite easily, not pee em off, but overtake them!!! Omg it's slow🤦🐌🐌🐌
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 17:21:49 GMT 1
Numbers are about to go over 200,000 very soon. Lot of feeling against this, will Mr D Head listen? Not a chance. 100,000 added in just 22 hours. Just about to go over 300,000 very soon. The more better. Constituents now need to complain to their local councillors, who must surely be coming up for election soon, and demand that numerous 30 m.p.h. restrictions are restored. I didn't see one remaining 30 m.p.h. sign whilst driving through Wales on Tuesday. The next Senedd elections aren't until 2026, which leaves Drakeford and Waters with their feet under the table.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 20, 2023 17:32:14 GMT 1
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