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Post by northwestman on Sept 11, 2023 11:15:48 GMT 1
www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/23770827.20mph-leaflet-may-get-door-says/The leaflet issued by the Welsh Government to justify this nonsense is straight out of the Boris Johnson playbook of obfuscation and lies. It claims that driving at 20 m.p.h will only add 1 minute to your journey - arrant nonsense. It states that most people in Wales (63%) support a lower speed limit where they live. That survey was conducted before the pilot schemes were rolled out and related to local areas only, not the whole of Wales. In Buckley, which was one of the pilot areas, 97% have stated that the scheme was a failure, and gave many reasons why this was so. A number of petitions against this scheme were all submitted to the Welsh Government, some with over 20,000 signatures. Both these and the concerns of the residents of Buckley have been ignored. The Public Health Survey that they quote has been contradicted by many other Surveys by Official Bodies and contains pure guesswork. Beware the lamppost scam. If they take away the 30 m.p.h signs and don't immediately replace them with 20 m.p.h. ones, or some vigilantes take down the new signs, they are effectively telling you in the leaflet that the area is 20 m.p.h. anyway and will issue tickets. Something similar happened in Cardiff - Cardiff Council said motorists should know that street lighting indicates a 30mph zone is in place and that this is something which is contained in the Highway Code. www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/thousands-drivers-caught-speeding-week-27445195. Exactly the same principle applies to the 20 m.p.h speed limits. And they've gone out of their way to mention this: "When you see streetlights, you should assume that the speed limit is 20mph, unless you see signs that say otherwise". A few streets will remain at 30 m.p.h., but I'll now be obliged to take the Wrexham bypass to Chester and then the A55 to Flint to avoid all but a few hundred yards of my regular journey being subject to these restrictions. A much longer journey, but it will preserve my sanity - has anyone tried to drive for miles at 20 m.p.h.? Cyclists can comfortably achieve 25 m.p.h. Moreover, emissions from cars constantly driving in 2nd gear will surely be more polluting to the environment.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 11, 2023 11:17:23 GMT 1
And look at this with regards to the few roads they are exempting!
"Until the statutory consultation process has been completed, it is not possible to say how many of the roads will change to 30mph, but for those that do this means that on September 17 they will default to 20mph and will not be changed to 30mph until the Traffic Regulation Orders have been implemented.
"How long it will take for the traffic regulation orders to be implemented will depend upon the number of responses received to the statutory consultation and the process of formal consideration and response.
"After the introduction of the 20mph national legislative change in September, local communities will be able to put forward further roads for consideration for an exemption via the council’s website. More information about how residents can do this will be made available in the autumn."
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Post by albionshrew on Sept 11, 2023 11:26:46 GMT 1
Technical question for the clever people on here - does a car use more fuel per gallon at 20mph than 30mph? I understand it's safer to drive at 20mph but it may not be so good for air pollution.
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Post by martinshrew on Sept 11, 2023 11:29:47 GMT 1
Idiotic policy from idiotic leaders.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 11, 2023 11:39:13 GMT 1
Technical question for the clever people on here - does a car use more fuel per gallon at 20mph than 30mph? I understand it's safer to drive at 20mph but it may not be so good for air pollution.
Well, I know that my car is happy to chug along on the flat at around 30 in fifth gear. I know that at 20mph the car will need to be in fourth or even third, so I think it would use more fuel. Then there's the old chestnut that if a car is running for longer, given clear roads in both cases, a car engine will be running for longer over a certain distance than it would be at 30mph.
"The Welsh Government has made the decision to reduce the number of collisions and severe injuries on the road. They claim the concept will also encourage more people to walk and cycle and was likely to “safeguard the environment”. So they think people will use less fuel because they just give up and get the bike out or walk. Don't suppose they have thought about delivery drivers, taxi drivers, cars fully occupied with kids or people unable to walk far who can't just ditch the vehicle.
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Post by wookeywombat on Sept 11, 2023 12:02:25 GMT 1
Just come back from Scotland and 20mph seems the norm in small villages, particularly, which is probably no bad thing. I would certainly welcome it in my village. Too many imbeciles already ignoring the 30mph which were I live is dangerous-20 might slow them down to 30.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 11, 2023 12:04:10 GMT 1
Why don't they just use the same speed ramps as oteley road has , that way regardless of the speed limit , if you travel at anything above 20mph your head hits the roof , all 4 wheels leave the ground and parts fall off your car
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 11, 2023 12:07:45 GMT 1
Just come back from Scotland and 20mph seems the norm in small villages, particularly, which is probably no bad thing. I want to be able to actually achieve 20mph in the Castle Foregate/Riverside area of Shrewsbury.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 11, 2023 12:13:51 GMT 1
Why don't they just use the same speed ramps as oteley road has , that way regardless of the speed limit , if you travel at anything above 20mph your head hits the roof , all 4 wheels leave the ground and parts fall off your car Because there's always some who will be not bothered because it's the firm's van or car and they are wearing a crash hat, or just not tall enough to hit the roof? Then there's those "Chelsea tractors" designed for off roading......
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Post by mattmw on Sept 11, 2023 12:28:27 GMT 1
Looking online it looks like a lot of Welsh Councils have decided to maintain the 30mph limit, rather than move to the 20mph system. For those that drive in Wales a lot this map might be useful! datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/view#/There are also more details on this site www.gov.wales/introducing-default-20mph-speed-limitsI think what they have done is make 20mph in a built up area the default speed limit, and Councils can decide to remain at 30mph instead In England the default in urban areas is 30mph but a Traffic Regulation Order is needed to make it 20mph. I think - but am not 100% sure - that the Welsh have reversed the process and made 20mph the defalt and 30 the "opt out" option - with a lot of Councils sticking to the 30mph limit Whats not clear from any of the sites is how its going to be enforced as generally in Engalnd when we make a zone 20mph additional road markings, signage and street changes are needed to allow enforcement to take place.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 11, 2023 12:40:24 GMT 1
They’ll be reintroducing horse and carriage next 🙄
I understand the need to make roads as safe as possible including for pedestrians and cyclists but surely this can be done by tackling hotspot areas with traffic calming measures rather than a blanket rule change. The cynic in me thinks the revenue potential through increased speeding fines will have been a primary consideration.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 12:40:52 GMT 1
Too many imbeciles already ignoring the 30mph which were I live is dangerous-20 might slow them down to 30. So you really think they will obey 20 mph limits any more than 30???
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 12:41:54 GMT 1
Idiotic policy from idiotic leaders. This one has a proven record of being an idiot. Remember some ofthe idiotic stunts he pulled throughout Covid?
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 11, 2023 12:44:38 GMT 1
Idiotic policy from idiotic leaders. This one has a proven record of being an idiot. Remember some ofthe idiotic stunts he pulled throughout Covid? Cordening off the book aisles in Tesco springs to mind. Feels surreal now thankfully.
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Post by Valerioch on Sept 11, 2023 13:00:23 GMT 1
Idiotic policy from idiotic leaders. This one has a proven record of being an idiot. Remember some ofthe idiotic stunts he pulled throughout Covid? Idiotic is kind imo, he's dangerous
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 11, 2023 13:02:23 GMT 1
They’ll be reintroducing horse and carriage next 🙄 I understand the need to make roads as safe as possible including for pedestrians and cyclists but surely this can be done by tackling hotspot areas with traffic calming measures rather than a blanket rule change. The cynic in me thinks the revenue potential through increased speeding fines will have been a primary consideration. Increased revenue from fines and, at a later date when AI puts lots out of a job, a job creation scheme for people with red flags walking in front of each vehicle.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 11, 2023 13:23:16 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Sept 11, 2023 13:32:35 GMT 1
Cyclists in the main also don't obey traffic lights, crossings or any other road related things; yet bleat on and on about them having no respect whilst on the roads.
Earn it.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Sept 11, 2023 13:45:10 GMT 1
They’ll be reintroducing horse and carriage next 🙄 I understand the need to make roads as safe as possible including for pedestrians and cyclists but surely this can be done by tackling hotspot areas with traffic calming measures rather than a blanket rule change. The cynic in me thinks the revenue potential through increased speeding fines will have been a primary consideration. Increased revenue from fines and, at a later date when AI puts lots out of a job, a job creation scheme for people with red flags walking in front of each vehicle. Got it in one... revenue generation nothing more, nothing less. Can anybody tell me what the speed limit is on Featherbed Lane,passing the schools on a Saturday afternoon? No further info,if you know where I'm talking about you know what I mean 🤬
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 14:28:11 GMT 1
Cyclists in the main also don't obey traffic lights, crossings or any other road related things; yet bleat on and on about them having no respect whilst on the roads. Earn it. 'Cyclists' cover a huge spectrum Martin, from the bloke who rides to work or the shops right up to professional racing cyclists. Not really fair to generalise so much. AndI'm sure weve all seen motorists not obeying every rule of the road. 'Motorists' cover an even broader spectrum. And we only notice the ones in both groups who go outside the law, those who obey we dont take much notice of.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 14:30:33 GMT 1
This one has a proven record of being an idiot. Remember some ofthe idiotic stunts he pulled throughout Covid? Idiotic is kind imo, he's dangerous Cant see why this idiot is still in power. Boris got moved out, the poison dwarf got moved out. Why hasnt someone got rid of this old dinosaur. He wouldnt get away with such stuff if he tried it in France, he would soon have the country protesting, they protest about everything over there.
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Post by wookeywombat on Sept 11, 2023 14:58:53 GMT 1
Too many imbeciles already ignoring the 30mph which were I live is dangerous-20 might slow them down to 30. So you really think they will obey 20 mph limits any more than 30??? Not what I said. Re-read my post
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 15:42:17 GMT 1
So you really think they will obey 20 mph limits any more than 30??? Not what I said. Re-read my post So still be breaking the law. Same result then 👍
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Sept 11, 2023 16:57:12 GMT 1
Cyclists in the main also don't obey traffic lights, crossings or any other road related things; yet bleat on and on about them having no respect whilst on the roads. Earn it. Reminds me of my bike ride last week as I was waiting at a red light when a bloke in a Post Office polo shirt rode through and across oncoming traffic. The driver behind leaned out of his window and shouted 'why don't you c***s ever stop at red lights?'.
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Post by wookeywombat on Sept 11, 2023 17:15:42 GMT 1
Not what I said. Re-read my post So still be breaking the law. Same result then 👍 But some improvement and less dangerous
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 11, 2023 17:16:53 GMT 1
Cyclists in the main also don't obey traffic lights, crossings or any other road related things; yet bleat on and on about them having no respect whilst on the roads. Earn it. Reminds me of my bike ride last week as I was waiting at a red light when a bloke in a Post Office polo shirt rode through and across oncoming traffic. The driver behind leaned out of his window and shouted 'why don't you c***s ever stop at red lights?'. Proves my point up the thread. He probably hadnt even registered that there was another c*** who was waiting patiently for the lights to change. Not all cyclists jump red lights, not all motorists obey them either.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Sept 11, 2023 20:33:07 GMT 1
Infuriating for the majority of responsible drivers who treated the current rules as speed limits rather than speed targets.
If the unsourced comment above that it’s worth £3.5Bn+ pa to the Welsh economy is correct, then you’d probably say it’s on balance the correct call. I’d be curious as to how it’s an economic boost rather than drag though.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 11, 2023 20:40:58 GMT 1
Cyclists in the main also don't obey traffic lights, crossings or any other road related things; yet bleat on and on about them having no respect whilst on the roads. Earn it. Reminds me of my bike ride last week as I was waiting at a red light when a bloke in a Post Office polo shirt rode through and across oncoming traffic. The driver behind leaned out of his window and shouted 'why don't you c***s ever stop at red lights?'. I got a £16 ticket in mid 80s, I was only about 16, scooted one footed outside of my pushbike from ravens meadows onto Smithfield road through the lights that were on red, got back on my bike and got pulled on chester street I remember sending a cheque off , I was YTS at the time £27.50 and gave my mum £7.50, didn't tell my parents as I was worried they would have a go at me too seems like I shouldn't have ever got such a ticket anyone know if I can get a historic pardon ?
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Sept 12, 2023 1:26:43 GMT 1
Idiotic is kind imo, he's dangerous Cant see why this idiot is still in power. Boris got moved out, the poison dwarf got moved out. Why hasnt someone got rid of this old dinosaur. He wouldnt get away with such stuff if he tried it in France, he would soon have the country protesting, they protest about everything over there. He has announced he is stepping down.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Sept 12, 2023 8:38:57 GMT 1
Where I live on the welsh border, the taxi drivers from Manchester are confused as hell whether we're in England or Wales, because we pass from Juan to the udder on a regular basis. The reputation of the owd Heddlu for having a zero sense of humour with traffic is well known. I believe the Welsh governmenment are about £900 million in debt, so I suppose an udder £33 million is chicken feed.
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