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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 21, 2021 12:53:13 GMT 1
If we strip this back to the facts, Insulate Britain are demanding that the government commit to fully funding and actioning the retrofit of every single house in the country to make them net zero by 2030, in order to reduce this countries carbon emissions by an approximate 15%.
Regardless of whether that’s even realistic/achievable/worth it, personal opinions will vary, I’m amazed that people can defend and even applaud the act of people protesting on motorways. Sets a very dangerous precedent too, could be Extinction Rebellion next week, Black Lives Matter the week after, anti-vaxxers the week after that, anti-government protests, where will it end. This countries currently going to the dogs as it is…
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 12:59:05 GMT 1
Would you have used the M25 today, knowing how it's being targeted? I wouldn't - that's "how on earth". Ambulances have to get through traffic blockages all the time. I believe in some countries it's a legal requirement to move your vehicle to the side of the motorway lane if there's a standstill, so that emergency vehicles have a clear route through. That should be the case here too. Over the years I've commuted using the M6, M4, M54, M56, M25 ..... Yes, thanks, I know how motorways work. You really, really dont have a clue do you. "Use another route....", great idea down there especially. Ever wondered why the M25 was built 40 years ago, erm.... Thanks, I do have a clue because I've used other routes many times myself. Have you never done that? Do you sit day after day in a queue at the same spot and wonder why it never gets better? Funnily enough, there were roads in and around London before they built the M25 and they're still there! Who knew? Not you, evidently.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 13:00:41 GMT 1
Oh, welcome to one of the biggest transport problems of 21st century industrial society! Have you ever driven in rush hour? Is the notion of finding an alternative route a novelty to you? It's been a regular part of daily life for decades for some of us. Appears your attempting to move the discussion here so I’ll put it back on track. Why should anybody on a morning commute, trip to the airport, something worse as has been discussed, or quite frankly any reason at all, have to suffer at the hands of these fools. If it carries on I can see the good folk on the M25 taking matters in to their own hands - now that would be fun to see Another supporter of violence, from the sidelines of course ....
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 13:04:24 GMT 1
If we strip this back to the facts, Insulate Britain are demanding that the government commit to fully funding and actioning the retrofit of every single house in the country to make them net zero by 2030, in order to reduce this countries carbon emissions by an approximate 15%. Regardless of whether that’s even realistic/achievable/worth it, personal opinions will vary, I’m amazed that people can defend and even applaud the act of people protesting on motorways. Sets a very dangerous precedent too, could be Extinction Rebellion next week, Black Lives Matter the week after, anti-vaxxers the week after that, anti-government protests, where will it end. This countries currently going to the dogs as it is… Does it not occur to you that those of us who think a 15% reduction in carbon emissions would be well worth the investment find the notion that people protesting on one motorway is a more serious problem to be a complete avoidance of the serious point being made?
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 21, 2021 13:05:59 GMT 1
The trouble is that if everyone on the M25 another route the roads would still be gridlocked. There is far more traffics now that years ago.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 21, 2021 13:11:40 GMT 1
You really, really dont have a clue do you. "Use another route....", great idea down there especially. Ever wondered why the M25 was built 40 years ago, erm.... Thanks, I do have a clue because I've used other routes many times myself. Have you never done that? Do you sit day after day in a queue at the same spot and wonder why it never gets better? Funnily enough, there were roads in and around London before they built the M25 and they're still there! Who knew? Not you, evidently. I usually avoid the motorways when driving to london , I join watlin street at wroxeter , I think that was there before the m25 too 😜
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 21, 2021 13:12:17 GMT 1
Complete ignorance to the fact that if hundreds, or thousands, of others drivers have the same idea to take the nearest detour, you’re just moving the problem elsewhere Oh, welcome to one of the biggest transport problems of 21st century industrial society! Have you ever driven in rush hour? Is the notion of finding an alternative route a novelty to you? It's been a regular part of daily life for decades for some of us. A hypocrite is someone who is telling others what to do whilst at the same time still doing something else which adds to the problem. For example, I have no problem whatsoever with people flying off on holiday so long as they do t come back and tell me to recycle my old envelopes and paper as I was about to dispose of them which is what happened to me once. They got short shrift and agreed with me that it was two faced. We can all do our bit but we don’t need to be preached at or inconvenienced by others who think differently. I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would support these selfish people at all.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 21, 2021 13:14:06 GMT 1
If we strip this back to the facts, Insulate Britain are demanding that the government commit to fully funding and actioning the retrofit of every single house in the country to make them net zero by 2030, in order to reduce this countries carbon emissions by an approximate 15%. Regardless of whether that’s even realistic/achievable/worth it, personal opinions will vary, I’m amazed that people can defend and even applaud the act of people protesting on motorways. Sets a very dangerous precedent too, could be Extinction Rebellion next week, Black Lives Matter the week after, anti-vaxxers the week after that, anti-government protests, where will it end. This countries currently going to the dogs as it is… Does it not occur to you that those of us who think a 15% reduction in carbon emissions would be well worth the investment find the notion that people protesting on one motorway is a more serious problem to be a complete avoidance of the serious point being made? I’d much prefer to hear the debate about what they’re demanding, the impact of a 15% reduction in our emissions, how much it’d cost and be funded, how it would be put into action etc. But the life threatening disruption they’re causing is what generates the headlines, as they well know, and discredits their name for any political issues they wish to make in future discussions.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 13:24:13 GMT 1
Oh, welcome to one of the biggest transport problems of 21st century industrial society! Have you ever driven in rush hour? Is the notion of finding an alternative route a novelty to you? It's been a regular part of daily life for decades for some of us. A hypocrite is someone who is telling others what to do whilst at the same time still doing something else which adds to the problem. For example, I have no problem whatsoever with people flying off on holiday so long as they do t come back and tell me to recycle my old envelopes and paper which is what happened to me once. They got short shrift and agreed with me that it was two faced. We can all do our bit but we don’t need to be preached at or inconvenienced by others who think differently. I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would support these selfish people at all. None of us can avoid adding to the problem of global heating. Simply being alive in an industrial (or post-industrial) society means you are. That's why calling out an environmental campaigner for taking a car journey or flying somewhere makes no sense. Even the yacht Greta Thunberg used (laudably) to cross the Atlantic had a carbon footprint when it was built. "Our bit" evidently isn't enough, which is why governments and businesses need to do more. More than a decade ago, the wealthiest nations pledged to raise $100bn to support poorer countries in their efforts to reduce emissions. They're still woefully short of the target. There's the really damaging hypocrisy and there'll no doubt be more of it around COP26 in November. I can't understand how you call the protesters selfish. How do you think they gain personally from this? I can't understand why keeping one motorway open is deemed more important. I suppose it'll need even worse problems to arise - and lives to be lost, let's not forget that's happening - before some people really do believe there's a climate emergency.
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Post by martinshrew on Sept 21, 2021 13:31:39 GMT 1
If we strip this back to the facts, Insulate Britain are demanding that the government commit to fully funding and actioning the retrofit of every single house in the country to make them net zero by 2030, in order to reduce this countries carbon emissions by an approximate 15%. Regardless of whether that’s even realistic/achievable/worth it, personal opinions will vary, I’m amazed that people can defend and even applaud the act of people protesting on motorways. Sets a very dangerous precedent too, could be Extinction Rebellion next week, Black Lives Matter the week after, anti-vaxxers the week after that, anti-government protests, where will it end. This countries currently going to the dogs as it is… Does it not occur to you that those of us who think a 15% reduction in carbon emissions would be well worth the investment find the notion that people protesting on one motorway is a more serious problem to be a complete avoidance of the serious point being made? You teach kids to make points for debate in a rational way to be respected and listened to, you then listen to others. You can't come screaming, balling, gluing yourself to a motorway and inconvenience thousands and expect to be taken seriously. You'll be treated as what you are, a criminal and an idiot.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 13:32:16 GMT 1
Does it not occur to you that those of us who think a 15% reduction in carbon emissions would be well worth the investment find the notion that people protesting on one motorway is a more serious problem to be a complete avoidance of the serious point being made? I’d much prefer to hear the debate about what they’re demanding, the impact of a 15% reduction in our emissions, how much it’d cost and be funded, how it would be put into action etc. But the life threatening disruption they’re causing is what generates the headlines, as they well know, and discredits their name for any political issues they wish to make in future discussions. Discredits in your eyes, not in mine though, as I said, I'm not entirely convinced these are the right tactics. If you look at the economic impact assessments of global heating, the cost of not doing enough is far greater than the cost of doing more now. And there's the rub. We struggle to step outside our immediate comfort zone. We don't actually say "why should we pay for something that we might not be around to see the benefits from?" but that's effectively what our relative inaction is saying. And also, what benefits? The true benefit would be that worse things didn't happen. That's always going to be a hard sell, especially if it's not our generation (and perhaps, for some, our country) that we think will suffer the worse things. Retrofitting our housing stock isn't even necessarily an economic cost. Think of the green jobs that would be created, think of the boost to the green economy and its knock-on effects in those areas, as Teesside is about to see with its wind farm manufacturing plant.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Sept 21, 2021 13:57:25 GMT 1
You live in a fantasy world. If it was one of your relative's ambulance being blocked I'd like to say you'd think differently, although I don't think you're wired up right. The ambulances should be let to the front of the queue by other drivers and then get them let through. Let's use a public service to defend private wealth continue to profit from the climate crisis is like using a child as a human shield in gun battle. The people you call scum include an army veteran, a buddhist teacher and a cleric. Better people than me and certainly better people than you. What makes one person better than another? Their jobs? Their general demeanour? How many good deeds they do? How many bad things they do? Just curious like. These ****heads are pure scum of the earth and should serve a prison sentence IMO for being a severe public nuisance at the very very least.
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 21, 2021 15:06:12 GMT 1
A hypocrite is someone who is telling others what to do whilst at the same time still doing something else which adds to the problem. For example, I have no problem whatsoever with people flying off on holiday so long as they do t come back and tell me to recycle my old envelopes and paper which is what happened to me once. They got short shrift and agreed with me that it was two faced. We can all do our bit but we don’t need to be preached at or inconvenienced by others who think differently. I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would support these selfish people at all. None of us can avoid adding to the problem of global heating. Simply being alive in an industrial (or post-industrial) society means you are. That's why calling out an environmental campaigner for taking a car journey or flying somewhere makes no sense. Even the yacht Greta Thunberg used (laudably) to cross the Atlantic had a carbon footprint when it was built. "Our bit" evidently isn't enough, which is why governments and businesses need to do more. More than a decade ago, the wealthiest nations pledged to raise $100bn to support poorer countries in their efforts to reduce emissions. They're still woefully short of the target. There's the really damaging hypocrisy and there'll no doubt be more of it around COP26 in November. I can't understand how you call the protesters selfish. How do you think they gain personally from this? I can't understand why keeping one motorway open is deemed more important. I suppose it'll need even worse problems to arise - and lives to be lost, let's not forget that's happening - before some people really do believe there's a climate emergency. They are selfish because they are causing great disruption to the ordinary person trying to go about their business. As I’ve tried to explain before - they have no idea who they are disrupting or the reasons why people are travelling. I call it extremely selfish to put themselves before ALL others regardless. If they want to disrupt people, then ensure that they are doing it to the people who can change matters, I,e., our politicians not ghe general public. I don’t think I can make it any clearer to be honest - they are affecting people who may well agree with them but who also need to get on with their lives, in some cases, urgently and literally as a matter of life and death. I presume some of these demonstrators will take time in future days to complain about the lack of stocks in the shops completely ignoring the fact that the suppliers’ lorries have been stuck on the M25 for hours on end. .
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 21, 2021 15:41:37 GMT 1
Treat them like football fans get treated on an away day. They'll soon stop.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 21, 2021 15:51:27 GMT 1
You really, really dont have a clue do you. "Use another route....", great idea down there especially. Ever wondered why the M25 was built 40 years ago, erm.... Thanks, I do have a clue because I've used other routes many times myself. Have you never done that? Do you sit day after day in a queue at the same spot and wonder why it never gets better? Funnily enough, there were roads in and around London before they built the M25 and they're still there! Who knew? Not you, evidently. Jesus, some of your replies to me and others are just ridiculous. I never thought there would be anyone else that posted more ridiculous stuff than Notorious on the Wrexham thread, but this thread has found one in you. I wont bother replying to any more of your posts as your views are mind blowing.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 21, 2021 16:04:29 GMT 1
If demonstrations are required, then there are 2 Party Conferences available to be targeted.
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Post by servernaside on Sept 21, 2021 16:24:11 GMT 1
Thanks, I do have a clue because I've used other routes many times myself. Have you never done that? Do you sit day after day in a queue at the same spot and wonder why it never gets better? Funnily enough, there were roads in and around London before they built the M25 and they're still there! Who knew? Not you, evidently. I usually avoid the motorways when driving to london , I join watlin street at wroxeter , I think that was there before the m25 too 😜 Watch out for those pesky Roman soldiers asking for tolls.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 21, 2021 16:26:58 GMT 1
I usually avoid the motorways when driving to london , I join watlin street at wroxeter , I think that was there before the m25 too 😜 Watch out for those pesky Roman soldiers asking for tolls. in just over 3 years it will be known as the MMXXV. (MM25)
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Post by venceremos on Sept 21, 2021 16:59:25 GMT 1
Thanks, I do have a clue because I've used other routes many times myself. Have you never done that? Do you sit day after day in a queue at the same spot and wonder why it never gets better? Funnily enough, there were roads in and around London before they built the M25 and they're still there! Who knew? Not you, evidently. Jesus, some of your replies to me and others are just ridiculous. I never thought there would be anyone else that posted more ridiculous stuff than Notorious on the Wrexham thread, but this thread has found one in you. I wont bother replying to any more of your posts as your views are mind blowing. Suits me, I'm not wasting time trying to have a civilised debate with someone incapable of doing so. Cheerio.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2021 17:09:13 GMT 1
I usually avoid the motorways when driving to london , I join watlin street at wroxeter , I think that was there before the m25 too 😜 Watch out for those pesky Roman soldiers asking for tolls. A bit of light relief on a heavy thread 😅
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Post by Pilch on Sept 21, 2021 17:27:53 GMT 1
Watch out for those pesky Roman soldiers asking for tolls. A bit of light relief on a heavy thread 😅 how do you stop a female protestor getting on the M25 ? Caesar
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 21, 2021 19:06:39 GMT 1
The ambulances should be let to the front of the queue by other drivers and then get them let through. Let's use a public service to defend private wealth continue to profit from the climate crisis is like using a child as a human shield in gun battle. The people you call scum include an army veteran, a buddhist teacher and a cleric. Better people than me and certainly better people than you. What makes one person better than another? Their jobs? Their general demeanour? How many good deeds they do? How many bad things they do? Just curious like. These ****heads are pure scum of the earth and should serve a prison sentence IMO for being a severe public nuisance at the very very least. Well you've answered your own question there, I think. Hopefully, to your own satisfaction.
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 21, 2021 19:59:06 GMT 1
If demonstrations are required, then there are 2 Party Conferences available to be targeted. Precisely.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 21, 2021 20:59:24 GMT 1
38 arrests today, up on yesterdays number of 23, although it was a Monday yesterday so numbers may be lower. I think we need to learn to live with them
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Post by Pilch on Sept 21, 2021 21:01:45 GMT 1
this M25 debate, some of you are just going round in circles
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 21, 2021 21:05:10 GMT 1
Perhaps if the police had brought in a few dog handlers that might have dissuaded them from going onto the motorway. Pritti, and the police, have a bit of a dilemma at the moment. With the climate summit coming up it's not a good look to be setting dogs onto people whose stated aim is to insulate Britain. Last thing they want is protesters making court appearances or languishing in jail when we hold the summit. Perhaps it should have been on-line, because protesters can do vurtually anything they want right up to and including at the actaul summit and not be treated too harshly, and the protesters know it.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 21, 2021 21:10:30 GMT 1
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 21, 2021 22:48:29 GMT 1
There was once a protester called Doris, Who thought we couldn't ignore it, She lay on the ground, And there she was found, Getting run over by Boris.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 21, 2021 23:06:51 GMT 1
38 arrests today, up on yesterdays number of 23, although it was a Monday yesterday so numbers may be lower. I think we need to learn to live with them How many deaths within 28 days due to "brake failure"?
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 21, 2021 23:10:09 GMT 1
There was once a protester called Doris, Who thought we couldn't ignore it, She lay on the ground, And there she was found, Getting run over by Boris. Oye can 'ear it bein recited by Pam Ayres right now....
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