|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 9:00:01 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 9:04:34 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 27, 2021 9:10:10 GMT 1
So he is reporting hearsay as ever then.
Repy to stutty.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 27, 2021 9:11:36 GMT 1
Surely the news is that he didn’t say something like this rather than he did. He went to zero for goodness sake - common room humour at its worst.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 9:21:33 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 27, 2021 9:40:09 GMT 1
So he is reporting hearsay as ever then. Repy to stutty. From hearsay, yes. Although to be fair to Peston that is how these things tend to work. I think its reported that perhaps three people claim to have heard him say it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 10:03:25 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Apr 27, 2021 10:09:27 GMT 1
These "Conservative insiders" seem to have it in for him. They should be careful what they wish for, for whatever reason the voters like Boris, where are they going to get someone else the voters like apart from, perhaps, Sunak?
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 27, 2021 10:15:18 GMT 1
So perhaps we are back to what I mentioned earlier, what people thought they heard him say... Although doesn't mention this specifically in the article but Anna Isaac has retweeted so I guess that is something that has been said to her by someone who was there. What a farce. I bet the Tories on the ground looking to win over Hartlepool must be loving this.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 10:18:33 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 27, 2021 10:36:17 GMT 1
That tweet could be taken out of context if you didn’t know the controversy though. ‘Bodies could pile high’ could also be said if there wasn’t a lock down.
Quoting parts of a conversation without the full context is very dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 27, 2021 10:37:06 GMT 1
That’s what I mean. It would be more newsworthy if he hadn’t said it!!
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 12:10:16 GMT 1
If nothing else, the latest Dominic Cummings saga will be of huge value to aspiring MPs. The most important lesson any politician needs to learn is how to answer – or, better still, not answer – awkward questions. And today (Monday), they were treated to fascinating demonstrations of three very different techniques.
The first came from Boris Johnson. At a factory in Wales, the Prime Minister was asked about the startling allegations made by his former adviser. In response to each question, Mr Johnson’s technique was to deny wrongdoing – and then swiftly change the subject.
“Here at Net World Sports, look at what they’ve done,” said the Prime Minister earnestly, after denying he’d ever said he would rather “let the bodies pile high” than approve a third lockdown. “I’ve just helped export a golf net from Wrexham to Australia…”
The second demonstration came in Parliament, where Simon Case, the head of the Civil Service, was being questioned by MPs. Mr Case’s technique, it seemed, was simply not to answer at all.
No matter what the MPs asked about – the Cummings row, Government leaks, the funding of the Downing Street flat’s refurbishment – they got nowhere. Indeed, Mr Case refused to answer so many questions that it became embarrassing to watch – not least because the poor man looked so embarrassed himself. He was constantly sighing, and apologising, and looking down at his hands, while helplessly mumbling that he didn’t “have all the facts at my disposal”, or was “constrained” by the need to “preserve the integrity” of this or that inquiry.
The day’s most impressive demonstration was the third, given in the Commons by Michael Gove. Mr Gove is the master of handling awkward questions. He replies with such polish and brio that his interrogators often fail to notice that his answers aren’t all that they seem on the surface. Take his response to the claim that, last autumn, Mr Johnson threatened to “let the bodies pile high”.
Mr Gove said he himself had been “in the meeting with the Prime Minister”, and had “never heard language of that kind”. But the PM is alleged to have said it after the meeting, not during it. “The idea that he would say any such thing, I find incredible,” added Mr Gove. But that doesn’t mean the PM didn’t say it. “He made a subsequent decision to trigger a third lockdown,” said Mr Gove. Yes, in January. That doesn’t mean the PM didn’t use those words in October, over two months earlier.
Answering without answering: the politician’s most prized skill.
Daily Telegraph.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 27, 2021 12:34:21 GMT 1
Answering without answering: the politician’s most prized skill. Twas ever so of course but you just feel that with the rumours Cummings has recordings of some meetings and exchanges at some point in time they will have to. That deflection won't be enough.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 27, 2021 12:46:26 GMT 1
Mind you it says a lot about Cummings that he kept recordings of meetings and comments let alone that he made them in the first place.
He obviously has a much shorter memory than us if he can’t remember how Boris defended him last year. Mind you perhaps he needs the recordings as his eyesight is too bad to be able to read the minutes of meetings.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 13:03:00 GMT 1
Answering without answering: the politician’s most prized skill. Twas ever so of course but you just feel that with the rumours Cummings has recordings of some meetings and exchanges at some point in time they will have to. That deflection won't be enough. Agreed, but with all the dark arts available to this government, they must surely have some plan in mind to head things off at the pass before Cummings' appearance in front of the Select Committee. I trust that whatever material Cummings has in his possession has already been placed by him in a secure environment. A raid on Cummings' home to recover government property perhaps? A few years ago they stripped Paul Burrell's house from top to bottom looking for evidence that he'd taken items belonging to Diana. Break ins are not unknown either. Cummings' has already been awarded an extra £45,000 onto his salary in 2020. Any attempt to buy him off would surely be closely monitored by the press.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 27, 2021 13:09:31 GMT 1
Twas ever so of course but you just feel that with the rumours Cummings has recordings of some meetings and exchanges at some point in time they will have to. That deflection won't be enough. Agreed, but with all the dark arts available to this government, they must surely have some plan in mind to head things off at the pass before Cummings' appearance in front of the Select Committee. I trust that whatever material Cummings has in his possession has already been placed by him in a secure environment. A raid on Cummings' home to recover government property perhaps? A few years ago they stripped Paul Burrell's house from top to bottom looking for evidence that he'd taken items belonging to Diana. Break ins are not unknown either. Cummings' has already been awarded an extra £45,000 onto his salary in 2020. Any attempt to buy him off would surely be closely monitored by the press. Blimey NW, we'll be talking of some unfortunate skiing accident in the Alps next. We wait and see of course, it'll be interesting to see what he will bring up in the next couple of weeks. But squeaky bum time for Johnson and government I reckon.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 13:13:34 GMT 1
Agreed, but with all the dark arts available to this government, they must surely have some plan in mind to head things off at the pass before Cummings' appearance in front of the Select Committee. I trust that whatever material Cummings has in his possession has already been placed by him in a secure environment. A raid on Cummings' home to recover government property perhaps? A few years ago they stripped Paul Burrell's house from top to bottom looking for evidence that he'd taken items belonging to Diana. Break ins are not unknown either. Cummings' has already been awarded an extra £45,000 onto his salary in 2020. Any attempt to buy him off would surely be closely monitored by the press. Blimey NW, we'll be talking of some unfortunate skiing accident in the Alps next. We wait and see of course, it'll be interesting to see what he will bring up in the next couple of weeks. But squeaky bum time for Johnson and government I reckon. I have to admit that the names of David Kelly and Robin Cook did enter my thoughts!
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 27, 2021 13:16:13 GMT 1
It seems to me that lying is the Johnson default. See the embarrassing bluster when he didn't know the name of the Tory West of England mayor.
It would be so easy and understandable for him to say, 'sorry the name escapes me for the moment'.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 15:08:54 GMT 1
Just to be even handed about expensive wallpaper, remember this? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/politics/61665.stmThe most celebrated case in modern political times revolved around Derry Irvine. Tony Blair had given his old friend and mentor the plum job of Lord Chancellor in the first New Labour administration. Known as a lover of lifes finer things, Lord Irvine excelled himself when he chose the wallpaper for his grace-and-favour apartment within the Palace of Westminster. At £300-a-roll the new flock wallpaper did not come cheap in total £59,000 was spent on it. But as he gravely stated at the time, he was searching for a very high and historically authentic standard. In addition, £145,000 went on carpets, curtains and upholstery alone at the Lord Chancellor's official residence, sealing his reputation as a latter-day Cardinal Wolsey. In total the refurbishment came to £650,000 and Lord Irvine declared that "posterity would be grateful". That was 1998 and the extravagance sparked a political storm. The Lord Chancellors rooms were restored to their original mid-19th century glory and furniture included a £25,000 oak dining table and works of art cost the taxpayer a further £140,000, while light fittings cost £56,000 and £10,000 was spent solely on "picture lighting". A £3,000 lavatory was installed (and quickly dubbed "Lord Irvine's throne"), while two oak beds were bought at a total cost of £16,000. Lord Irvine defended his largesse to a Parliamentary committee and said: You are talking about quality materials which are capable of lasting for 60 or 70 years. Daily Telegraph.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 15:36:55 GMT 1
Just to be even handed about expensive wallpaper, remember this? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/politics/61665.stmThe most celebrated case in modern political times revolved around Derry Irvine. Tony Blair had given his old friend and mentor the plum job of Lord Chancellor in the first New Labour administration. Known as a lover of lifes finer things, Lord Irvine excelled himself when he chose the wallpaper for his grace-and-favour apartment within the Palace of Westminster. At £300-a-roll the new flock wallpaper did not come cheap in total £59,000 was spent on it. But as he gravely stated at the time, he was searching for a very high and historically authentic standard. In addition, £145,000 went on carpets, curtains and upholstery alone at the Lord Chancellor's official residence, sealing his reputation as a latter-day Cardinal Wolsey. In total the refurbishment came to £650,000 and Lord Irvine declared that "posterity would be grateful". That was 1998 and the extravagance sparked a political storm. The Lord Chancellors rooms were restored to their original mid-19th century glory and furniture included a £25,000 oak dining table and works of art cost the taxpayer a further £140,000, while light fittings cost £56,000 and £10,000 was spent solely on "picture lighting". A £3,000 lavatory was installed (and quickly dubbed "Lord Irvine's throne"), while two oak beds were bought at a total cost of £16,000. Lord Irvine defended his largesse to a Parliamentary committee and said: You are talking about quality materials which are capable of lasting for 60 or 70 years. Daily Telegraph. Which is obscene of course, but was it done by the book or via some dodgy/illegal deal?
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 15:39:20 GMT 1
Just to be even handed about expensive wallpaper, remember this? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/politics/61665.stmThe most celebrated case in modern political times revolved around Derry Irvine. Tony Blair had given his old friend and mentor the plum job of Lord Chancellor in the first New Labour administration. Known as a lover of lifes finer things, Lord Irvine excelled himself when he chose the wallpaper for his grace-and-favour apartment within the Palace of Westminster. At £300-a-roll the new flock wallpaper did not come cheap in total £59,000 was spent on it. But as he gravely stated at the time, he was searching for a very high and historically authentic standard. In addition, £145,000 went on carpets, curtains and upholstery alone at the Lord Chancellor's official residence, sealing his reputation as a latter-day Cardinal Wolsey. In total the refurbishment came to £650,000 and Lord Irvine declared that "posterity would be grateful". That was 1998 and the extravagance sparked a political storm. The Lord Chancellors rooms were restored to their original mid-19th century glory and furniture included a £25,000 oak dining table and works of art cost the taxpayer a further £140,000, while light fittings cost £56,000 and £10,000 was spent solely on "picture lighting". A £3,000 lavatory was installed (and quickly dubbed "Lord Irvine's throne"), while two oak beds were bought at a total cost of £16,000. Lord Irvine defended his largesse to a Parliamentary committee and said: You are talking about quality materials which are capable of lasting for 60 or 70 years. Daily Telegraph. Which is obscene of course, but was it done by the book or via some dodgy/illegal deal? No, Irvine was totally up front with this. There's the difference.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 16:18:18 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9515957/Ex-civil-service-chief-lashes-Boris-Johnson-58-000-Downing-St-flat-renovation.htmlBoris Johnson faces the threat of suspension from the Commons if he is found to have failed to register a £60,000 Tory contribution to refurbishing his Downing Street flat. The PM has already been put on notice he risks a 'serious sanction' after a report two years ago condemned his 'repeated' breaches of Parliamentary rules. Conservative chiefs are believed to have secretly approved a £58,000 payment to the Cabinet Office in July last year to cover the works - which was on top of the £30,000 annual sum for upkeep that the taxpayer foots. Can't see this happening, but never say never!
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Apr 27, 2021 17:48:38 GMT 1
In politics as in life, it’s important to keep an open mind. Thankfully, as we’ve seen in recent days, Westminster is full of people who are willing to think again when new information comes to light.
During the Barnard Castle affair, Labour argued that Dominic Cummings was a lying scoundrel who would say anything to save his own skin. Yet, now that he’s made allegations that could damage Boris Johnson, they’ve reconsidered, and decided that in fact Mr Cummings is a model of integrity whose word we can trust.
Tories, too, have been showing themselves admirably receptive to fresh points of view. During the Barnard Castle affair, they argued that Mr Cummings was a model of integrity whose word we can trust. Yet, now that he’s made allegations that could damage Boris Johnson, they’ve reconsidered, and decided that in fact Mr Cummings is a lying scoundrel who would say anything to save his own skin.
It truly is heartening to see politicians demonstrate such eagerness to reassess their assumptions. Let them be an inspiration to us all.
Daily Telegraph.
|
|
|
Post by Exkeeper on Apr 27, 2021 18:19:59 GMT 1
Johnson lying is not really newsworthy. Now, if he was to tell the truth, that could be a scoop.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 28, 2021 1:12:21 GMT 1
I was reminded of this thread when I saw this tweet. We need to make the effort to remember that we are not chess pieces to be moved around the board by politicians, business leaders, archbishops etc but all individuals of equal value. This comment by Johnson adds another piece to the picture that shows him to be a human bin. People are too easily persuaded that appearing hard-harded and hard-boiled are character traits to be admired. Appearances are everything for Johnson.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 11:23:00 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 28, 2021 11:36:05 GMT 1
I was reminded of this thread when I saw this tweet. We need to make the effort to remember that we are not chess pieces to be moved around the board by politicians, business leaders, archbishops etc but all individuals of equal value. This comment by Johnson adds another piece to the picture that shows him to be a human bin. People are too easily persuaded that appearing hard-harded and hard-boiled are character traits to be admired. Appearances are everything for Johnson.
This is so sad and there will be many others in similar situations. Something we should never forget. A politician’s statistic is someone else’s life.
|
|
|
Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2021 11:42:31 GMT 1
I suspect Cummings has got even more nuclear items in his arsenal and this is only the tip of the iceberg. He’ll be keeping some of the big stuff in reserve to stop Johnson and the government coming back at him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 12:38:43 GMT 1
Well that was a waste of PM ‘QS by Mr Starmer don’t ya think
|
|