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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 5, 2024 12:38:49 GMT 1
Shame some of the hard working genuine Conservative MPs got swept aside with the swing, there must be some, I'm thinking Sir Rob Buckland for one. Then again, some of Starmer's shadow cabinet didn't get in due to Gaza candidates. Perhaps good decent MP's who have lost will be parachuted in if there are byelections. Hopefully any that have been self serving dead weights, dangerous or devisive from any party won't get another chance. A smooth handover with a gracious exit from Rishi. The 'Mother Country'shows the world how to do things again. I understand Jeremy Corbyn is now 'Father of the House' and Dianne Abbott 'Mother of the House'  As if I wasn't depressed enough today, you've now said that  Two truly odious racist characters It doesn't mean much, doesn't give them any special powers. Just means they're getting on a bit |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 13:04:34 GMT 1
Virtually everyth8ng on my wish list came up - Labour won Shrewsbury, Worthing West, and Truss and Rees-Mogg gone. Shame about Farage, but that would have been greedy. In a strange way I am glad that Farage got in. The eternal windbag will now have to do some real work as a constituency MP and I wonder how long it will be before the people of Clacton get pi**ed off with him being over the pond fawning around Trump rather than serving them. Also his attendance and voting record in parliament will bear some very close scrutiny in a year’s time I think. He could finally be found out for the shallow, attention-seeking waste of space that he is. I’m going to go out on a limb with absolutely no evidence to back this up, but I highly doubt that a single Clacton voter voted for Farage to do constituency work. They voted for him based on what he stands for, and the Reform message. |
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jul 5, 2024 13:30:36 GMT 1
Virtually everyth8ng on my wish list came up - Labour won Shrewsbury, Worthing West, and Truss and Rees-Mogg gone. Shame about Farage, but that would have been greedy. In a strange way I am glad that Farage got in. The eternal windbag will now have to do some real work as a constituency MP and I wonder how long it will be before the people of Clacton get pi**ed off with him being over the pond fawning around Trump rather than serving them. Also his attendance and voting record in parliament will bear some very close scrutiny in a year’s time I think. He could finally be found out for the shallow, attention-seeking waste of space that he is. Farage was a complete embarrassment to this country with his antics when he was a MEP. If he tries that again as an MP, he’ll lose a lot of support. I doubt he’ll do much local work, sadly, an MP can get by without doing much local work - look at Dannyboy in Shrewsbury. |
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Post by edgmond on Jul 5, 2024 13:56:49 GMT 1
In a strange way I am glad that Farage got in. The eternal windbag will now have to do some real work as a constituency MP and I wonder how long it will be before the people of Clacton get pi**ed off with him being over the pond fawning around Trump rather than serving them. Also his attendance and voting record in parliament will bear some very close scrutiny in a year’s time I think. He could finally be found out for the shallow, attention-seeking waste of space that he is. Farage was a complete embarrassment to this country with his antics when he was a MEP. If he tries that again as an MP, he’ll lose a lot of support. I doubt he’ll do much local work, sadly, an MP can get by without doing much local work - look at Dannyboy in Shrewsbury. You and Feedo are probably right but constituents still have expectations of their MPs and that sort of arrogant disregard is often punished in future elections. |
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Post by kenwood on Jul 5, 2024 13:58:51 GMT 1
In a strange way I am glad that Farage got in. The eternal windbag will now have to do some real work as a constituency MP and I wonder how long it will be before the people of Clacton get pi**ed off with him being over the pond fawning around Trump rather than serving them. Also his attendance and voting record in parliament will bear some very close scrutiny in a year’s time I think. He could finally be found out for the shallow, attention-seeking waste of space that he is. I’m going to go out on a limb with absolutely no evidence to back this up, but I highly doubt that a single Clacton voter voted for Farage to do constituency work. They voted for him based on what he stands for, and the Reform message. I have to agree. He won the populist right wing vote with his constant rant about illegal immigration and not much else really . Will he get found out, possibly not although his attendance and voting record whilst in the House will come under scrutiny . He will be coming after Labour in his own words. It’s very disturbing really , Trump on the rise in America , Le Pen in France leading her National Front Party now known as the National Rally and at home apart from the Reform Party, Braverman managing to keep her seat . The political face of this Country is changing drastically and with the Telegraph already putting Starmer down before he’s even taken office it’s going to be a rough ride for this Country as it becomes battered by right wing rhetoric . |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 5, 2024 14:23:59 GMT 1
Jonathan Pie post election:
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Post by MetaShrew on Jul 5, 2024 14:24:04 GMT 1
At long, long last, the era of bluff and boosterism is over.
Best of luck to Labour for the years ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 14:30:14 GMT 1
Shame some of the hard working genuine Conservative MPs got swept aside with the swing, there must be some, I'm thinking Sir Rob Buckland for one. Then again, some of Starmer's shadow cabinet didn't get in due to Gaza candidates. Perhaps good decent MP's who have lost will be parachuted in if there are byelections. Hopefully any that have been self serving dead weights, dangerous or devisive from any party won't get another chance. A smooth handover with a gracious exit from Rishi. The 'Mother Country'shows the world how to do things again. I understand Jeremy Corbyn is now 'Father of the House' and Dianne Abbott 'Mother of the House' As if I wasn't depressed enough today, you've now said that Two truly odious racist characters Define racist. Before you do though please consider that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism and that being against bombing the s*** out of people doesn't mean being against the right of Israel to exist. Just so we're clear. Carry on. |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 14:37:59 GMT 1
I’m going to go out on a limb with absolutely no evidence to back this up, but I highly doubt that a single Clacton voter voted for Farage to do constituency work. They voted for him based on what he stands for, and the Reform message. I have to agree. He won the populist right wing vote with his constant rant about illegal immigration and not much else really . Will he get found out, possibly not although his attendance and voting record whilst in the House will come under scrutiny . He will be coming after Labour in his own words. It’s very disturbing really , Trump on the rise in America , Le Pen in France leading her National Front Party now known as the National Rally and at home apart from the Reform Party, Braverman managing to keep her seat . The political face of this Country is changing drastically and with the Telegraph already putting Starmer down before he’s even taken office it’s going to be a rough ride for this Country as it becomes battered by right wing rhetoric . He might be coming after Labour but his party has 4 seats - so do the Greens, so do Plaid Cymru. We'll see how it plays out in France on Sunday (I'm not sure the National Rally will be in government afterwards) and the US election is still months away. Let the Telegraph shriek and wail. The fact is that centre/left parties won a landslide of seats and over 50% more votes than the parties on the right. Today's a day for progressive supporters across the country to celebrate, even though it's a dreadful mess the new government now has to deal with. As much as I think this would be a better country if it never heard from Farage again, I'm not unduly concerned that he's finally become an MP. It's harder to play the anti-establishment card from inside the establishment. He'll be the leader of a small minority party and subject to the rules and procedures of the House, not free to do as he pleases. He'll also have to declare his financial interests - that could be awkward for him and interesting for us! I doubt the citizens of Clacton will be seeing much of him.  |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 14:41:55 GMT 1
As if I wasn't depressed enough today, you've now said that Two truly odious racist characters It doesn't mean much, doesn't give them any special powers. Just means they're getting on a bit I think it was corrected soon after it was mentioned. Apparently Corbyn isn't Father of the House - can't remember who it is but they said on TV it's someone else. As you say, it's only an honorary title, although it would have been amusing for it to be Corbyn and Abbott. |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 14:45:41 GMT 1
Unless they make a really mess of things labour could be in power for ten years and possibly fifteen. It just doesn't work like that. People said the same about Cameron's Tories in 2015 and Johnson's in 2019. Neither of them even saw out that parliament, never mind winning the next election or two. Labour should have five years now. Beyond that, nothing can be taken for granted. |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 15:02:11 GMT 1
Historical result. 36% of the vote is alarming for Labour but I attribute that to: independents/Greens campaigning on Gaza. Tactical voting between Labour/Lib Dems - played FPTP to perfection. Conservative voters not being scared of Starmer so felt safe enough not voting - Corbyn managed to galvanize Tories to come out and vote against him. I don't think it's alarming. After 2019 they'd have been very happy to get that figure next time. I agree the popular vote is misconstrued. It's misleading to project a PR outcome from votes cast in a FPTP election. Apart from those reasons you mentioned I'd add that FPTP produces a lot of safe seats and, with the polling throughout predicting a huge Labour win, a lot of people in safe Labour seats won't have bothered voting - look at the low turnouts there. Labour didn't campaign hard in its safe seats because there was no reason to get the vote out there. Similarly the Lib Dems and Greens targeted specific seats rather than campaigning nationally. Those were FPTP tactics and they paid off handsomely. It was different for Reform. Theirs was a passionate protest vote - there won't be many Reform supporters who didn't vote yesterday. For all the voting numbers, it's noticeable that their only winners were their big names - Farage, Tice, Anderson and Lowe (who has a significant social media presence). That might be a platform they can build on but I wouldn't be as sure about it as the media seem to be. Tactical voting seems to play a bigger part with each election, as voters get wise to how it works in their constituency. People lend votes between Labour/Lib Dem and Green on an increasing scale. Look at North Shropshire. Helen Morgan came 3rd with 5,000 votes in 2019, 30,000 behind the Tory. In the 2021 by-election, a lot of voters (me included!) recognised that only the Lib Dems could beat the Tories there, and she won by 5,000. Yesterday, her majority increased to more than 15,000. I'm still a supporter of electoral change but I don't know what the best system might be. But those pointing at popular votes in a FPTP election are a bit like those football fans saying their team won on xG after they just lost the match. |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 15:03:05 GMT 1
By the way, how good were sheltonsalopian's local election outcome predictions!?  |
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jul 5, 2024 15:13:45 GMT 1
By the way, how good were sheltonsalopian's local election outcome predictions!? Haha thanks... shame I didn't back them with actual money! |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 15:21:49 GMT 1
By the way, how good were sheltonsalopian's local election outcome predictions!? Haha thanks... shame I didn't back them with actual money! We don't need any more betting scandals! |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 5, 2024 15:32:21 GMT 1
Unless they make a really mess of things labour could be in power for ten years and possibly fifteen. It just doesn't work like that. People said the same about Cameron's Tories in 2015 and Johnson's in 2019. Neither of them even saw out that parliament, never mind winning the next election or two. Labour should have five years now. Beyond that, nothing can be taken for granted. Agree - this election has produced a huge amount of seats won by small margins, far fewer seats are truly safe nowadays, add in to the mix Labour only got 35% and it wouldn't take too much for this landslide to be completely undone in 2029 - but anything can happen in the next 5 years of course |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 5, 2024 15:37:16 GMT 1
In a strange way I am glad that Farage got in. The eternal windbag will now have to do some real work as a constituency MP and I wonder how long it will be before the people of Clacton get pi**ed off with him being over the pond fawning around Trump rather than serving them. Also his attendance and voting record in parliament will bear some very close scrutiny in a year’s time I think. He could finally be found out for the shallow, attention-seeking waste of space that he is. I’m going to go out on a limb with absolutely no evidence to back this up, but I highly doubt that a single Clacton voter voted for Farage to do constituency work. They voted for him based on what he stands for, and the Reform message. I would think the same. I mean one or two constantly look to his attendance and record as an MEP but he was elected to get the UK out of the EU, that was the remit he was given. I think he'll see this in the same way and I think he commented as such whilst campaigning. How that will turn out who knows but I'm sure he'll have plenty to work with with a Labour government. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 15:46:06 GMT 1
Great fun analysing the results but every election always fought on its merits at the time. 2019, 2017, 2015 bore no resemblance to each other.
The only story in town (unless you want to talk about Scotland and Wales given the relative closeness of their elections) is a total Labour landslide and Tory wipeout
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 15:53:27 GMT 1
Nothing to add that wasn't said last night during the excellent TV coverage or all ready stated on here
Just one statistic that I noted during the preceding weeks which tied in with Labour targeting specific seats.I had 6 separate leaflets and 2 doorstep chats with Labour canvassers, plus 1 leaflet each from Reform and the Lib Dems
Absolutely nothing from Daniel and friends, it was as if they conceded defeat as soon as Sunak called the election
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Post by venceremos on Jul 5, 2024 16:22:40 GMT 1
Nothing to add that wasn't said last night during the excellent TV coverage or all ready stated on here Just one statistic that I noted during the preceding weeks which tied in with Labour targeting specific seats.I had 6 separate leaflets and 2 doorstep chats with Labour canvassers, plus 1 leaflet each from Reform and the Lib Dems Absolutely nothing from Daniel and friends, it was as if they conceded defeat as soon as Sunak called the election Similar here in North Shropshire - 1 leaflet each from Labour, Green and Reform, several letters/emails/leaflets to our household from the Lib Dems plus Ed Davey's visit to Clive, literally nothing from the Tories. Nobody from any party knocked on the door - not while we were in anyway. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 5, 2024 16:35:16 GMT 1
Don't think it's been raised yet but by far the most concerning/worrying thing of the night for me, was Independents winning / going very close to winning seats based on Sectarian politics for the first time.
Winning seats in a UK election based on a campaign solely for a foreign conflict has no place in our Democracy. Neither does intimidation of candidates, I'm no fan of the odious Jess Phillips, but the way she was treated during her victory speech was disgusting, being booed, heckled and disrupted with awful Palestine chanting
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Post by Pilch on Jul 5, 2024 16:38:08 GMT 1
well done Labour , hope the shrewsbury mp doesnt defect like the last one i wasted a vote on now the fun begins, all those who didn't vote labour get to bash every decision starmer makes, the labourites will be defending things they used to critisize, and I'll be reminding them they have and linking to old threads ;-) for 5 years at least |
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Post by kenwood on Jul 5, 2024 16:54:26 GMT 1
well done Labour , hope the shrewsbury mp doesnt defect like the last one i wasted a vote on now the fun begins, all those who didn't vote labour get to bash every decision starmer makes, the labourites will be defending things they used to critisize, and I'll be reminding them they have and linking to old threads ;-) for 5 years at least Tell me Pilch , did you vote this time ? I think before this election Marsden who defected to the Lib Dems if I remember correctly was the last election you voted in. You are right , a complete waste of a vote . Tell me you voted this time and put your cross against Julie Buckley . 😉👍 |
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Post by Pilch on Jul 5, 2024 17:03:45 GMT 1
well done Labour , hope the shrewsbury mp doesnt defect like the last one i wasted a vote on now the fun begins, all those who didn't vote labour get to bash every decision starmer makes, the labourites will be defending things they used to critisize, and I'll be reminding them they have and linking to old threads ;-) for 5 years at least Tell me Pilch , did you vote this time ? I think before this election Marsden who defected to the Lib Dems if I remember correctly was the last election you voted in. You are right , a complete waste of a vote . Tell me you voted this time and put your cross against Julie Buckley . 😉👍 I voted to stay at home, that way I can criticise any of them without the need to defend the indefensible the only way I can see a change might benefit me personally is they might not be as quick to increase the retirement age as the tories would have done had they remained in power, maybe they will reduce it |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 17:08:50 GMT 1
Tell me Pilch , did you vote this time ? I think before this election Marsden who defected to the Lib Dems if I remember correctly was the last election you voted in. You are right , a complete waste of a vote . Tell me you voted this time and put your cross against Julie Buckley . 😉👍 I voted to stay at home, that way I can criticise any of them without the need to defend the indefensible Very sensible, you do enough of that without bringing politics into it too |
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Post by Pilch on Jul 5, 2024 17:13:21 GMT 1
I voted to stay at home, that way I can criticise any of them without the need to defend the indefensible Very sensible, you do enough of that without bringing politics into it too I might stand at the next election for the common sense party ;-) |
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 5, 2024 17:32:13 GMT 1
Agreeing with what Venceremos said earlier about not assuming FPTP votes would translate into the same outcome if PR. I think the electorate is very smart at using FPTP for tactical voting.
I also wonder why Valerioch describes every politician whose opinion he disagrees with as ‘odious’.
Although in Jess Phillips case he probably meant to type ‘admirable’😊
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Post by cabanas2017 on Jul 5, 2024 17:32:49 GMT 1
Tell me Pilch , did you vote this time ? I think before this election Marsden who defected to the Lib Dems if I remember correctly was the last election you voted in. You are right , a complete waste of a vote . Tell me you voted this time and put your cross against Julie Buckley . 😉👍 I voted to stay at home, that way I can criticise any of them without the need to defend the indefensible the only way I can see a change might benefit me personally is they might not be as quick to increase the retirement age as the tories would have done had they remained in power, maybe they will reduce it |
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Post by cabanas2017 on Jul 5, 2024 17:34:14 GMT 1
I thought you may have voted for Alex Wagner given he is a local guy and a Town fan….
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Post by Pilch on Jul 5, 2024 17:44:07 GMT 1
I thought you may have voted for Alex Wagner given he is a local guy and a Town fan…. no one even knocked on my door "Wagner out" |
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