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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 7:13:05 GMT 1
After the semifinal I actually began to believe that we might have a chance of winning this tournament, but then Southgate goes with his tried and tested method of failing against the better teams. We were second best for most of the competition to be honest and if not for one moment of brilliance from Bellingham against Slovakia we would have been home long ago, but we've rode our luck and due to a relatively easy route to the final we have flattered to deceive. Walker has been great throughout, but was a yard short last night. Guéhi and his replacement against Switzerland Konza look like England have the makings of a decent centre half partnership going forward. Left back was an issue throughout, but considering that Shaw hadn't started a game this year I thought he was outstanding. Yamal never even looked like beating him until late on in the game. Get him back to 100% fitness and we might have the position sewn up for the next couple of years. Trippier is not the answer. Apart from his wonder goal Bellingham has for the most part only been ok. A couple of assists, but nothing spectacular. Foden has been brilliant in spurts, but when he has been trying to press he has had negligible support from Kane. He was running around like a headless chicken trying to press on his own, it needs a concerted effort by by the whole front line and midfield, but no one else seemed interested. Kane. He wasn't fully fit when the competition began. For crying out loud he had two touches in the whole first half against Serbia. It's almost as if Southgate was playing him to help get him match fit. He never busted a gut to get the ball, as soon as was replaced by Watkins the whole game changed. Yes I understand that he can and does score goals, but he just doesn't work hard enough for the team and if the chances aren't handed to him on a plate he can't or won't work to make them for himself. Time to retire from international football IMO. We have the players to move forward without him and let's be honest he's a bit of a Jonah. Zero major trophies in what has been a stellar career. I think we have the bones of a team that can win a World Cup or the Euros in the coming years, but changes need to happen. Starting with Southgate. Would agree with a lot of your analysis but I think Southgate has earned the right to take England to the next World Cup if he wants to carry on. I think we were beaten by an outstanding side last night and cannot remember a team in a major tournament winning all their game before. We just could not wrest away control from their midfield for long enough but. even so, still kept in the game until very late on. Some of our young players will have learned a lot and its time for some of the senior players who have served England well to pass the baton on. Let's be honest we have ridden our luck to reach the final and we got there in spite of Southgates tactics rather than due to them. Yes he has made some changes at the right times, but the whole tournament has been a case of fighting fires rather starting them. We have won two games in normal time. Like I said if not for that wonder goal against Slovakia we would have been home two weeks ago and we would have had no complaints, Southgate would have been joining the queue with all the Tory MPs down at the JobCentre and there would have been not one single person calling for him to stay on for another 2 years. A small serving of skill and tactical awareness combined with a huge dollop of luck got us to the final. Imagine if we had a manager with the tactical nous to take advantage of that luck.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 7:18:30 GMT 1
We’ll never know how good this team could have been if allowed to have a positive mentality from the start. Southgate won’t change, and we have flattered to deceive under his tactics. Precisely. He won't change his tactics in the next two years, he'll stick with his favourites (remember only a couple of weeks ago he was bemoaning the lack of a Kalvin Phillips FFS) and the players who are just starting coming through now will have to wait another two years to get their real chance under a new manager. Unless of course he manages to luck out and get us to another quarter or semi-final and the FA give him another two years on top.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 15, 2024 7:38:30 GMT 1
Got to feel for Bellingham , imagine playing for a club in Spain this coming season
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Post by chirkshrew on Jul 15, 2024 8:25:52 GMT 1
Yep,well said Worthing and Neil salop...... we're not quite good enough when the big games come calling....been saying it for years, especially about kane....and heyho he failed again.....time to move on without him now, ready for the next world cup
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Post by cabanas2017 on Jul 15, 2024 8:53:38 GMT 1
Word of warning qualifying for 2026 World Cup will not be as easy because England will be unseeded due to relegation to group B of the Nations league
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jul 15, 2024 8:54:29 GMT 1
Called it before the tournament, first time we play a really good team we'll lose.
Gareth has progressed us no doubt from where we were in 2016 but he's had four cracks at it now and he's failed every time. If you want to keep getting to semi finals/finals and losing, by all means keep him as manager.
If you want to actually win a tournament, you need a manager that isn't afraid to lose. Just before Spain scored he was about to bring on Gallagher and Trippier - he was playing for penalties. Spain were the better team yesterday, but just before we scored and for about 10 minutes after we were the better team and they were on the ropes, until we decided to sit back.
Croatia - 2018 Italy - 2021 France -2022 Spain - 2024
I would argue France in 2022 was the only team in that list that had better players than we did at the time, but Southgate lost every one.
Thanks for the memories - bring in a manager that's not afraid to use this team to it's full potential (and please drop Walker for Trent)
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 15, 2024 8:58:38 GMT 1
It’s a team game and picking on individuals to scapegoat doesn’t help when the team dynamic doesn’t quite work. After all, Watkins had a good opening and completely mis controlled the ball.
I’d like someone who can make an entertaining attacking team out of our plethora of talented players, but who?
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 15, 2024 9:00:32 GMT 1
🍹 We’re all absolutely delighted. We’d never of heard the end of it… Fireworks going off here. Didn't wales recently draw with Spain ? Oh no it was actually just a rock in Spain that doesn't even have a pitch on it , and has a population of about 3 dozen people 😝 And loads of monkeys, that's the rock, not Wales of course.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 15, 2024 9:00:39 GMT 1
I think Southgate should resign now , he stands to gain nothing now unless we win the World Cup , possibly his record won't be matched for a long time
Well done Gareth if you go now it will be the cricket equivalent of 90 not out 👍 not quite a century but more than enough to be cheered back into the pavilion 😝
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Post by wakemanender on Jul 15, 2024 9:30:17 GMT 1
Football is always going to divide opinions but for me Southgate was far too loyal in playing a clearly unfit Kane for the knockout games. Far too cautious with his tactics and frightened to play the young strikers from the start. Time to go now but no obvious candidates to take over is the problem.
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Post by wakemanender on Jul 15, 2024 9:45:59 GMT 1
Disappointed to see most of the players leaving the hotel and filing onto the bus without acknowledging the waiting fans. Wouldn't have hurt them to just give them a glance and a little clap. After all they weren't having to carry luggage. It's all done for them. They have had massive support from supporters. Give a little back.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 9:47:41 GMT 1
Called it before the tournament, first time we play a really good team we'll lose. Gareth has progressed us no doubt from where we were in 2016 but he's had four cracks at it now and he's failed every time. If you want to keep getting to semi finals/finals and losing, by all means keep him as manager. If you want to actually win a tournament, you need a manager that isn't afraid to lose. Just before Spain scored he was about to bring on Gallagher and Trippier - he was playing for penalties. Spain were the better team yesterday, but just before we scored and for about 10 minutes after we were the better team and they were on the ropes, until we decided to sit back. Croatia - 2018 Italy - 2021 France -2022 Spain - 2024 I would argue France in 2022 was the only team in that list that had better players than we did at the time, but Southgate lost every one. Thanks for the memories - bring in a manager that's not afraid to use this team to it's full potential (and please drop Walker for Trent) I think I'm correct in saying that of the 26 or 27 times that we've played against countries in the top 10 of the FIFA rankings at the time we have won 5 times under Southgate. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best and we have consistently shown that with him in charge we just aren't able to do that. It's a shame because I honestly think he's a nice guy and a decent coach, but he lacks the killer instinct and would rather go into games trying not to lose. We need to get someone in to take England to the next level. We have the players, we just need to instill the confidence and mindset to reach that level. He isn't the man to do that.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 15, 2024 9:48:40 GMT 1
Southgate has an amazing record of getting us further in tournaments than any other England manager but his cautious nature is his achilles heel. yet again always the bridesmaid never the bride, which is a shame .
Kane should have gone off at half time for a brief period England were the better team but we did not make the most of it. Spain were the better team but if he had dropped Kane and gone with a more we have nothing to lose attitude we might have won.
thanks for everything you have done and i wish him all the best.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 15, 2024 9:50:08 GMT 1
Disappointed to see most of the players leaving the hotel and filing onto the bus without acknowledging the waiting fans. Wouldn't have hurt them to just give them a glance and a little clap. After all they weren't having to carry luggage. It's all done for them. They have had massive support from supporters. Give a little back. England's men's team are always like that, in sharp contrast to England's women's team who appreciate the fans.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 9:51:10 GMT 1
It’s a team game and picking on individuals to scapegoat doesn’t help when the team dynamic doesn’t quite work. After all, Watkins had a good opening and completely mis controlled the ball. I’d like someone who can make an entertaining attacking team out of our plethora of talented players, but who? At least Watkins got himself into that position in the first place. Not every first touch is going to be a good one and every scoring opportunity isn't going to result in a goal, but if you are there or thereabouts you will succeed. Kane never got close. One touch in the Spanish box all night.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 15, 2024 9:51:57 GMT 1
Called it before the tournament, first time we play a really good team we'll lose. Gareth has progressed us no doubt from where we were in 2016 but he's had four cracks at it now and he's failed every time. If you want to keep getting to semi finals/finals and losing, by all means keep him as manager. If you want to actually win a tournament, you need a manager that isn't afraid to lose. Just before Spain scored he was about to bring on Gallagher and Trippier - he was playing for penalties. Spain were the better team yesterday, but just before we scored and for about 10 minutes after we were the better team and they were on the ropes, until we decided to sit back. Croatia - 2018 Italy - 2021 France -2022 Spain - 2024 I would argue France in 2022 was the only team in that list that had better players than we did at the time, but Southgate lost every one. Thanks for the memories - bring in a manager that's not afraid to use this team to it's full potential (and please drop Walker for Trent) I think I'm correct in saying that of the 26 or 27 times that we've played against countries in the top 10 of the FIFA rankings at the time we have won 5 times under Southgate. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best and we have consistently shown that with him in charge we just aren't able to do that. It's a shame because I honestly think he's a nice guy and a decent coach, but he lacks the killer instinct and would rather go into games trying not to lose. We need to get someone in to take England to the next level. We have the players, we just need to instill the confidence and mindset to reach that level. He isn't the man to do that. yes totally agree with you .but who is the problem!
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 10:04:54 GMT 1
I think I'm correct in saying that of the 26 or 27 times that we've played against countries in the top 10 of the FIFA rankings at the time we have won 5 times under Southgate. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best and we have consistently shown that with him in charge we just aren't able to do that. It's a shame because I honestly think he's a nice guy and a decent coach, but he lacks the killer instinct and would rather go into games trying not to lose. We need to get someone in to take England to the next level. We have the players, we just need to instill the confidence and mindset to reach that level. He isn't the man to do that. yes totally agree with you .but who is the problem! Southgate is the easy answer, but I don't think it's that black and white. He doesn't want to lose and sets up his team to do just that. It's been reasonably successful to a point. The England fans and the press are partly to blame too, because we expect too much. The pundits are partly to blame for sniping one minute and singing the praises the next, but also for raising expectations. The players aren't blameless, but is that down to the tactics and them following instructions from Southgate? Injuries and fitness is also an issue. Kane clearly wasn't 100% fit, Shaw was outstanding in the first half, but he hadn't started a game this year until last night and wasn't completely match fit so that was always going to be a problem as the game wore on. It was a risk to play him and that gamble paid off in the first 45 minutes, but his fitness was always going to be suspect. I really don't want to be too critical, because we pushed the best team in Europe all the way, but in the end we seemed to have settled for extra time and penalties. Spain didn't.
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Post by wakemanender on Jul 15, 2024 11:46:52 GMT 1
Looking back at the games I've watched I am convinced that England have the best individual players but even the lower ranked teams know what our tactics will be so we have to rely on individual pieces of brilliance to win games. Do we have an English Manager in the premiership who could take over and come up with tactics that will have us playing as a team with some flair like Spain. I don't think we do.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jul 15, 2024 12:02:01 GMT 1
I think that Micah Richards called it right when he said because Southgate was a defender, he had a defensive mentality.
No ones mentioned the ref from last night who I thought had a great game. Let the game flow, didn’t give in to theatrics, and didn’t show too many cards.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jul 15, 2024 12:28:35 GMT 1
Got to feel for Bellingham , imagine playing for a club in Spain this coming season
Spanish clubs have won the final in the conference leauge, Europa Cup, champions league, Europeans championships and world cup for the last 23 finals in a row played by spanish teams. 23!
Playing for a spanish club is the best for his career by a long stretch.
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Post by armchairfan on Jul 15, 2024 12:39:42 GMT 1
I DO hope that the understandable criticism of Gareth Southgate does not descend into nasty bitterness - he deserves our thanks and respect for dragging his team out of the post-Iceland pit and giving us hope when it had been virtually destroyed: I agree with Pilch's cricket analogy (almost a century), but it has to be said that with all the skills and talent at his disposal, he could have done better. There are times in Life when circumstances dictate a requirement to adopt a different skill-set to overlay the fundamentals which Southgate has put in place - notably "togetgetherness" and resilience - and that time is now; a change from his entirely natural DNA (Defence Not Attack). As to who it may be to carry out that task will, of course, be a matter for debate, but that must be the priority, as I see it, and one hopes that the FA make the right choice....as indeed they did with the appointment of Southgate in the circumstances then applying.
Thank you, Gareth Southgate, for your efforts.
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 12:43:30 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by armchairfan on Jul 15, 2024 12:43:30 GMT 1
Disappointed to see most of the players leaving the hotel and filing onto the bus without acknowledging the waiting fans. Wouldn't have hurt them to just give them a glance and a little clap. After all they weren't having to carry luggage. It's all done for them. They have had massive support from supporters. Give a little back. Good grief - they didn't clap the fans...?? Sack them all!
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jul 15, 2024 12:48:31 GMT 1
I DO hope that the understandable criticism of Gareth Southgate does not descend into nasty bitterness - he deserves our thanks and respect for dragging his team out of the post-Iceland pit and giving us hope when it had been virtually destroyed: I agree with Pilch's cricket analogy (almost a century), but it has to be said that with all the skills and talent at his disposal, he could have done better. There are times in Life when circumstances dictate a requirement to adopt a different skill-set to overlay the fundamentals which Southgate has put in place - notably "togetgetherness" and resilience - and that time is now; a change from his entirely natural DNA (Defence Not Attack). As to who it may be to carry out that task will, of course, be a matter for debate, but that must be the priority, as I see it, and one hopes that the FA make the right choice....as indeed they did with the appointment of Southgate in the circumstances then applying. Thank you, Gareth Southgate, for your efforts.
I actually think Southgate has been out of club management too long now. I don't think he's got his finger on the pulse enough.
Given his imited contact with the players, how does he continue to hone his craft? To develop his way. To take on new ideas?
Pepe is a genius but everyone can also see when he's got his tactics utterly messed up, like the champions league final against Chelsea.
The problem for Southgate is if it was club management and Kane was clearly carrying an injury you would rest him. Tournament football doesn't allow for that and so we've effectively being playing with ten men for large portions of the games.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 13:00:52 GMT 1
Looking back at the games I've watched I am convinced that England have the best individual players but even the lower ranked teams know what our tactics will be so we have to rely on individual pieces of brilliance to win games. Do we have an English Manager in the premiership who could take over and come up with tactics that will have us playing as a team with some flair like Spain. I don't think we do. I think a lot of that is due to having Harry Kane as our No.1 striker. I have said many times before that when he played for Spurs, last season at Munich and for England he can get goals against the lesser teams, but against better quality defences he looks lost, maybe that's because his supply dries up, but he doesn't do enough or move quickly enough to give his team options. Both his open play goals came against defenders that aren't in the top echelon. No offense, but the Serbian and Slovakian defenders aren't the same level as the Spanish defenders we came up against last night. Kane scored just 5 goals against Man City in his Premiership career, same against Utd. Better teams keep him quiet, always have.
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 13:03:52 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Pilch on Jul 15, 2024 13:03:52 GMT 1
We’ll never know how good this team could have been if allowed to have a positive mentality from the start. Southgate won’t change, and we have flattered to deceive under his tactics. You mean like the Swiss ?
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 13:10:40 GMT 1
Disappointed to see most of the players leaving the hotel and filing onto the bus without acknowledging the waiting fans. Wouldn't have hurt them to just give them a glance and a little clap. After all they weren't having to carry luggage. It's all done for them. They have had massive support from supporters. Give a little back. Good grief - they didn't clap the fans...?? Sack them all! Let's be honest a bit of appreciation of the fans would have gone a long way. If a few dozen of them can be bothered to turn up at the hotel to applaud their efforts then a bit of reciprocation wouldn't have hurt. Some of those fans been at every game, spent immense amounts of money and even in their disappointment were there to show to support.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 15, 2024 14:28:14 GMT 1
Addressing the question of who can succeed Southgate, the person we appoint must:
- Be available - Have recent experience of English and European club football - Be known for playing fast attacking football - Be good with the media
Ladies and gentlemen I give you Jurgen Klopp😀
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Jul 15, 2024 14:44:30 GMT 1
Addressing the question of who can succeed Southgate, the person we appoint must: - Be available - Have recent experience of English and European club football - Be known for playing fast attacking football - Be good with the media Ladies and gentlemen I give you Jurgen Klopp😀 Don't think Klopp would, but another one that ticks that list that I think might be more interested - Pocchettino. But I'd imagine Potter would be favourite
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 15, 2024 14:51:18 GMT 1
Addressing the question of who can succeed Southgate, the person we appoint must: - Be available - Have recent experience of English and European club football - Be known for playing fast attacking football - Be good with the media Ladies and gentlemen I give you Jurgen Klopp😀 You missed must be English. Have always thought the coach is part of the team and should be from the country. Just imagine Klogg and were in the final against Germany. Not for me paying some mercenary to manage ‘our’ team.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 15, 2024 15:37:10 GMT 1
Addressing the question of who can succeed Southgate, the person we appoint must: - Be available - Have recent experience of English and European club football - Be known for playing fast attacking football - Be good with the media Ladies and gentlemen I give you Jurgen Klopp😀 You missed must be English. Have always thought the coach is part of the team and should be from the country. Just imagine Klogg and were in the final against Germany. Not for me paying some mercenary to manage ‘our’ team. How many teams around the world are managed by foreign coaches? Cameroon, AFCON 5 times winners. A Belgian. The Lionesses. A Dutch woman. Most teams in the premiership have foreign coaches. Are all these people and many more really nothing more than mercenaries?
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