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Post by northwestman on Oct 19, 2022 20:03:29 GMT 1
Sir Charles Walker attacks 'extraordinary' scenes:
The veteran Tory MP says tonight's events "reflect really badly on the Government of the day".
Asked if there was any coming back from this, Sir Charles said: "I don't think so. I've been of that view since, really, two weeks ago. This is an absolute disgrace. As a Tory MP of 17 years, who's never been a minister who's got on with it loyally most of the time, I think it's a shambles and a disgrace. I think it is utterly appalling.
"I'm livid. And do you know, I really shouldn't say this, but I hope all those people that put Liz Truss in Number 10, I hope it was worth it. I hope it was worth it for the ministerial Red Box, I hope it was worth it to sit round the Cabinet table. Because the damage they have done to the party is extraordinary. I've had enough of talentless people putting their tick in the right box not because it's in the national interest, but because it's in their own interest to achieve a ministerial position."
Daily Telegraph.
Think he's summed up things quite nicely there!
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Post by stfcfan87 on Oct 19, 2022 20:04:07 GMT 1
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1685144/wendy-morton-resigns-chief-whip-liz-truss-suella-bravermanConservative party Chief Whip Wendy Morton has reportedly resigned, along with her deputy Craig Whittaker. Sources have reported that Ms Morton quit the party following chaos surrounding a vote on fracking, which had been declared a "confidence vote" in the government. Her departure will represent a huge blow for Liz Truss after Home Secretary Suella Braverman resigned her Cabinet position just hours previously. The government won the vote by 96 votes, with 230 votes against and 326 for. According to Byline Times' Adam Bienkov, Labour's Chris Bryant said he "saw members being physically manhandled" and "bullied" in the voting lobbies as chaos erupted over the vote. Ian Murray, Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland, added: "I’ve never seen scenes like it at the entrance to a voting lobby. Tories on open warfare. Jostling and Rees Mogg shouting at his colleagues. Whips screaming at Tories. "They are done and should call a general election. Two Tory whips dragging people in. Shocking." According to the Spectator's Isabel Hardman, Craig Whittaker came out of the lobby and said: "Craig Whittaker has just come out of the lobby and said" I am f***ing furious and I don’t give a f*** anymore”.' So the tory mps were told they had to vote for the government regardless of whether they agreed or else they would have the whip removed and therefore not be tory mps and then a few hours later apparently it wasnt a confidence vote after all, and now the chief whip and deputy have resigned? What is going on?! Oh and in addition, these are reports coming from the most right wing of papers, the telegraph, the Express and the spectator! |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 19, 2022 20:08:56 GMT 1
The selection of a new Tory leader might have gone a bit better if the members had had more to chose from. Maybe MPs knocking out the ones they felt they couldn't work with before the vote - since they decided Boris had become a liability, that would have included Boris.
As it was members were left with the choice of the devil or the deep blue sea - can't see how blame can be attached to the members for what happened next.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 19, 2022 20:18:39 GMT 1
The selection of a new Tory leader might have gone a bit better if the members had had more to chose from. Maybe MPs knocking out the ones they felt they couldn't work with before the vote - since they decided Boris had become a liability, that would have included Boris. As it was members were left with the choice of the devil or the deep blue sea - can't see how blame can be attached to the members for what happened next. alternatively they could have held a general election , had the Torys won and you'd be asking for another vote saying the voters didn't know what they were voting for |
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Post by northwestman on Oct 19, 2022 20:20:57 GMT 1
Grant Shapps, who used a fake name in order to pose as a "millionaire web marketer" running a get-rich-quick scheme, and then lied about it for three years, is now in charge of law, order and security in the UK.
Shapps's use of the names Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox attracted controversy in 2012.
He denied having used a pseudonym after entering parliament and, in 2014, threatened legal action against a constituent who had stated on Facebook that he had. In February 2015, he publicly said: "I don't have a second job and have never had a second job while being an MP. End of story."
However, in March 2015, Shapps admitted to having had a second job while being an MP, and practising business under a pseudonym.
Wiki.
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 19, 2022 20:24:30 GMT 1
Mind you it wasn’t compulsory to vote. They could have abstained if they didn’t like the choices.
We, as a country, and those of us who had no opportunity to vote for the next PM, certainly wouldn’t have been any worse off.
This situation wouldn’t even have made the screen in Yes PM - it just wouldn’t have been believed.
The Tory MPs shouldn’t be at all surprised at what went on in the lobbies tonight- bullying is par for the course in our Public Schools.
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 19, 2022 20:27:58 GMT 1
Grant Shapps, who used a fake name in order to pose as a "millionaire web marketer" running a get-rich-quick scheme, and then lied about it for three years, is now in charge of law, order and security in the UK. Shapps's use of the names Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox attracted controversy in 2012. He denied having used a pseudonym after entering parliament and, in 2014, threatened legal action against a constituent who had stated on Facebook that he had. In February 2015, he publicly said: "I don't have a second job and have never had a second job while being an MP. End of story." However, in March 2015, Shapps admitted to having had a second job while being an MP, and practising business under a pseudonym. Wiki. We have friend who taught Shapps and he is appalled at how he has turned out. There just must be a better Tory somewhere in Parliament who could have been selected or did he just happen to be the one walking past the open door and was hooked in quickly. Replacements seem to be found exceedingly quickly so there can’t be much thought put into the process. Government on the hoof and we deserve better. |
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Post by MetaShrew on Oct 19, 2022 20:34:52 GMT 1
Grant Shapps, who used a fake name in order to pose as a "millionaire web marketer" running a get-rich-quick scheme, and then lied about it for three years, is now in charge of law, order and security in the UK. Shapps's use of the names Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox attracted controversy in 2012. He denied having used a pseudonym after entering parliament and, in 2014, threatened legal action against a constituent who had stated on Facebook that he had. In February 2015, he publicly said: "I don't have a second job and have never had a second job while being an MP. End of story." However, in March 2015, Shapps admitted to having had a second job while being an MP, and practising business under a pseudonym. Wiki. We have friend who taught Shapps and he is appalled at how he has turned out. There just must be a better Tory somewhere in Parliament who could have been selected or did he just happen to be the one walking past the open door and was hooked in quickly. Replacements seem to be found exceedingly quickly so there can’t be much thought put into the process. Government on the hoof and we deserve better. Careful – you're in danger of criticising the Tories there, which has been established to be thoroughly unfair and undeserved. |
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Post by northwestman on Oct 19, 2022 20:36:40 GMT 1
No votes were recorded for 40 Tory MPs including Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries, David Davis, Greg Clark, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Kwasi Kwarteng, Theresa May, Wendy Morton, Alok Sharma, Priti Patel and Ben Wallace, Sky News is reporting. This is despite a three-line whip and all Tories being told earlier they must vote in favour of the government. Boris is of course on yet another holiday - this time in the Caribbean. I'm sure his constituents must be suitably impressed, as he's still supposed to be representing them, not pulling in 6 figure sums for a half hour speech in the USA or lounging on a beach. www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-polls-interest-holiday/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1681912/boris-johnson-speech-us-insurance-conference-new-career |
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Post by kenwood on Oct 19, 2022 20:39:01 GMT 1
I have just read that Theresa Coffey manhandled an MP and more or less picked him up and shoved him into the government lobby .
You wouldn’t want to argue with Theresa !
Meanwhile Rees - Mogg was heard shouting at MP’s .
Surely he needs to go , he is a bloody disgrace.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 19, 2022 20:40:36 GMT 1
The selection of a new Tory leader might have gone a bit better if the members had had more to chose from. Maybe MPs knocking out the ones they felt they couldn't work with before the vote - since they decided Boris had become a liability, that would have included Boris. As it was members were left with the choice of the devil or the deep blue sea - can't see how blame can be attached to the members for what happened next. alternatively they could have held a general election , had the Torys won and you'd be asking for another vote saying the voters didn't know what they were voting for Now,now, you must be aware that the very last thing the Conservative party wanted was a General Election. They were playing by the rules, as they currently stand, by having the members vote for a new leader - currently, it's for the new leader to test the countries opinion - as Boris did. If the Tory party had been a lot less tolerant of his misdemeaners and kept him in check he might still be there bluffing the world that all was well here. |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 19, 2022 21:04:08 GMT 1
We have friend who taught Shapps and he is appalled at how he has turned out. There just must be a better Tory somewhere in Parliament who could have been selected or did he just happen to be the one walking past the open door and was hooked in quickly. Replacements seem to be found exceedingly quickly so there can’t be much thought put into the process. Government on the hoof and we deserve better. Careful – you're in danger of criticising the Tories there, which has been established to be thoroughly unfair and undeserved. Fortunately for me I don’t give a damn! |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 19, 2022 21:08:13 GMT 1
No votes were recorded for 40 Tory MPs including Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries, David Davis, Greg Clark, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Kwasi Kwarteng, Theresa May, Wendy Morton, Alok Sharma, Priti Patel and Ben Wallace, Sky News is reporting. This is despite a three-line whip and all Tories being told earlier they must vote in favour of the government. Boris is of course on yet another holiday - this time in the Caribbean. I'm sure his constituents must be suitably impressed, as he's still supposed to be representing them, not pulling in 6 figure sums for a half hour speech in the USA or lounging on a beach. www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-polls-interest-holiday/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1681912/boris-johnson-speech-us-insurance-conference-new-careerHis Tory constituents knew what they were voting for so I have no sympathy whatsoever. The ones to feel sorry for are the ones who didn’t vote for him. To be honest I find it absolutely hilarious that he’s not here. Did anyone seriously expect him to be? I didn’t. |
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Post by secretshrew on Oct 19, 2022 21:22:54 GMT 1
Any chance of an ‘OT’ next to some kind these political type threads? I thought it was something vaguely interesting and related to the club - like a club secretary had resigned or something!
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Post by Pilch on Oct 19, 2022 22:17:45 GMT 1
We have friend who taught Shapps and he is appalled at how he has turned out. There just must be a better Tory somewhere in Parliament who could have been selected or did he just happen to be the one walking past the open door and was hooked in quickly. Replacements seem to be found exceedingly quickly so there can’t be much thought put into the process. Government on the hoof and we deserve better. Careful – you're in danger of criticising the Tories there, which has been established to be thoroughly unfair and undeserved. stop thinking out loud |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 19, 2022 23:32:54 GMT 1
And now the Chief Whip goes !!! Apologies - I was wrong ! Chief whip sacked and then unsacked !! It’s difficult to keep up 🙄 |
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 20, 2022 8:54:28 GMT 1
And now the Chief Whip goes !!! Apologies - I was wrong ! Chief whip sacked and then unsacked !! It’s difficult to keep up 🙄 Ahh first it was a confidence vote until it changes to a non confidence vote resulting in the resignations. Vote won (defeated) let’s change it back to a confidence vote to save face and the whips unresign….chaos continues….. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2022 9:42:20 GMT 1
It's the chaos that's worse than the policies. U turns by the hour. An elderly lady at a warm bank was asked if she was pleased she would get 10.1% next April; her reply. "If they don't do another U turn".
Whatever the spend, whatever the tax, businesses need to plan for it. The government won't get the new investment they want if there is a lack of certainty. Simple example: A local restaurant has to rebew it's lease in January - will they be able to still make a profit when their energy bills from next April are a total unknown? Should they renew the lease?
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 10:06:32 GMT 1
Apologies - I was wrong ! Chief whip sacked and then unsacked !! It’s difficult to keep up 🙄 Ahh first it was a confidence vote until it changes to a non confidence vote resulting in the resignations. Vote won (defeated) let’s change it back to a confidence vote to save face and the whips unresign….chaos continues….. But if it's a confidence vote, then the 40 MPs who didn't turn up need to be disciplined unless they have a valid excuse. That includes Truss herself! |
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 20, 2022 10:21:48 GMT 1
Ahh first it was a confidence vote until it changes to a non confidence vote resulting in the resignations. Vote won (defeated) let’s change it back to a confidence vote to save face and the whips unresign….chaos continues….. But if it's a confidence vote, then the 40 MPs who didn't turn up need to be disciplined unless they have a valid excuse. That includes Truss herself! She’ll have an excuse don’t worry. She always does. |
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Post by martinshrew on Oct 20, 2022 10:24:49 GMT 1
No votes were recorded for 40 Tory MPs including Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries, David Davis, Greg Clark, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Kwasi Kwarteng, Theresa May, Wendy Morton, Alok Sharma, Priti Patel and Ben Wallace, Sky News is reporting. This is despite a three-line whip and all Tories being told earlier they must vote in favour of the government. Boris is of course on yet another holiday - this time in the Caribbean. I'm sure his constituents must be suitably impressed, as he's still supposed to be representing them, not pulling in 6 figure sums for a half hour speech in the USA or lounging on a beach. www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-polls-interest-holiday/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1681912/boris-johnson-speech-us-insurance-conference-new-careerI'm glad none of his constituents are going on holiday, I didn't realise taking a holiday was banned. |
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 10:26:22 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/20/dozens-tory-mps-facing-disciplinary-action-fracking-voteDozens of Conservative MPs are facing potential disciplinary action or losing the party whip after Downing Street announced that a chaotic vote on fracking was being treated as a confidence issue. It was widely reported that Liz Truss’s chief whip, Wendy Morton, and the deputy chief whip, Craig Whittaker, had stepped down after disorderly scenes, with MPs alleging ministers physically pulled some wavering Tories into the voting lobbies. A Downing Street spokesperson stated "Conservative MPs were fully aware that the vote was subject to a three-line whip. The whips will now be speaking to Conservative MPs who failed to support the government. Those without a reasonable excuse for failing to vote with the government can expect proportionate disciplinary action.” In total, 40 Tory MPs did not vote with the government, although none voted with Labour, meaning the government defeated the Labour motion by 326 votes to 230. Some of these would have had permission to be away, and some seemingly did not have their votes properly recorded. But it leaves open the prospect of a large number of MPs being reprimanded or losing the whip. Tory MP for Stroud, Siobhan Baillie, says she doesn’t know if she is still a Conservative MP after abstaining on last night’s fracking vote.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2022 10:27:35 GMT 1
this reminds me of those that called for John Askey to go, and then realised that might not have been the best decision shame on all those who hounded boris out for basically not even eating a piece of cake  typical Lynch mob really, kill first, discuss your other options later ;-) |
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 10:32:43 GMT 1
No votes were recorded for 40 Tory MPs including Liz Truss, Boris Johnson, Nadine Dorries, David Davis, Greg Clark, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Kwasi Kwarteng, Theresa May, Wendy Morton, Alok Sharma, Priti Patel and Ben Wallace, Sky News is reporting. This is despite a three-line whip and all Tories being told earlier they must vote in favour of the government. Boris is of course on yet another holiday - this time in the Caribbean. I'm sure his constituents must be suitably impressed, as he's still supposed to be representing them, not pulling in 6 figure sums for a half hour speech in the USA or lounging on a beach. www.lbc.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-polls-interest-holiday/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1681912/boris-johnson-speech-us-insurance-conference-new-careerI'm glad none of his constituents are going on holiday, I didn't realise taking a holiday was banned. I'd imagine it is banned when Parliament is in session. Parliament only sat for 205 days in the last year - so there was plenty of time for him to go on holiday in the remaining 160 days. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2022 10:39:23 GMT 1
I'm glad none of his constituents are going on holiday, I didn't realise taking a holiday was banned. I'd imagine it is banned when Parliament is in session. Parliament only sat for 205 days in the last year - so there was plenty of time for him to go on holiday in the remaining 160 days. it doesn't really matter when or where he went on holiday Just using the line. "he's on holiday again" is the all important bit if said in a certain jokingly way, you can make it sound like its such a reckless thing to be doing, and the correct response for the person you are telling it to act shocked like they didn't know and maybe hang their jaw for a few seconds and shake their heads a little ;-) I think I've read the rules of this game correctly ? |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2022 10:41:44 GMT 1
I'm glad none of his constituents are going on holiday, I didn't realise taking a holiday was banned. I'd imagine it is banned when Parliament is in session. Parliament only sat for 205 days in the last year - so there was plenty of time for him to go on holiday in the remaining 160 days. Boris is wisely keeping well out of this. He's one of those people whose reputation and popularity go up when he isn't around...
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2022 10:44:04 GMT 1
I'd imagine it is banned when Parliament is in session. Parliament only sat for 205 days in the last year - so there was plenty of time for him to go on holiday in the remaining 160 days. Boris is wisely keeping well out of this. He's one of those people whose reputation and popularity go up when he isn't around...
did someone just remind you how you played 'your' part in this mess  |
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Post by MetaShrew on Oct 20, 2022 10:53:55 GMT 1
Reading her resignation letter, it looks an awful lot like Braverman deliberately did something that would require her to resign. This is what Yvette Cooper is trying to get to the bottom of with her urgent question just now, but I don't expect she'll get a meaningful answer. Something rotten afoot – and it's not that lettuce Truss is up against. |
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Post by edgmond on Oct 20, 2022 11:16:42 GMT 1
this reminds me of those that called for John Askey to go, and then realised that might not have been the best decision shame on all those who hounded boris out for basically not even eating a piece of cake typical Lynch mob really, kill first, discuss your other options later ;-) So, taking your metaphor and running with it, Ricketts would be Liz Truss. You could end up being her only defender too!! 😉 |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2022 11:27:36 GMT 1
this reminds me of those that called for John Askey to go, and then realised that might not have been the best decision shame on all those who hounded boris out for basically not even eating a piece of cake typical Lynch mob really, kill first, discuss your other options later ;-) So, taking your metaphor and running with it, Ricketts would be Liz Truss. You could end up being her only defender too!! 😉 funny that you mention Ricketts. glad I didn't this is my whole point, you and the whole Labour Party are making one hell of a rod for your own backs, making a drama out of everything like most did with Ricketts and then having to make excuses for the same thing happening under a new leader is not going to be something confined to blue and amber, the majority of the country are going to be playing it if and when starmer gets in charge, this can't be good for the economy, not in the slightest. I find it totally cringe and this new game is going to kill politics if it hasn't already |
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