kp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 495
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Post by kp on Aug 2, 2022 13:18:17 GMT 1
I am not sure where I stated that to be honest but here, I will engage with the attempted strawman. The weapons are being GIVEN to Ukraine you say? So this implies they are a gift, no cost. I think perhaps you should read the suggested text. Knowledge is power and I will put Major General Smedley D Butlers intimate knowledge of these matters right up there tbh. :rollyeyethingy: I'm calling out Corbyn as an idiot as he is critical of those who are providing the Ukraine with weapons so that they can defend themselves. You seem to take issue with that. Apologies if I have it wrong. Whether the weapons are given, sold, whatever is irrelevant to the discussion. Do you think it is wrong to provide weapons to the Ukraine so that it can defend itself? As Corbyn does. We can all talk about peace and I'm sure most hope that the war in the Ukraine comes to and end sooner rather than later but Corbyn's idea of peace seems to involve removing the Ukraine's ability to defend itself and the inevitable result of Russian aggression. Just more kumbaya student politics b******s from Corbyn, lets not forget this is the clown who wanted to send a sample of the poising used at Salisbury to the Kremlin to ask if it was theirs. The guy is a ****wit. As he is proving once again here. You do have it wrong. Corbyn is not calling out those who are providing Ukraine with weapons so they can defend themselves. If you perceive the profit motive to be irrelveant then I guess that is the end of the discussion as you will lack any nuanced understanding of the real driving forces. I think it is wrong to sell Ukraine weapons so they can fight a proxy war with Russia (see previous nuanced comment). If we can all talk of peace, why don't we? Have you read Major General Smedley D Butlers text 'WAR IS A RACKET' ? Or is that just more student kumbaya bulls**t? |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 2, 2022 13:28:08 GMT 1
I'm calling out Corbyn as an idiot as he is critical of those who are providing the Ukraine with weapons so that they can defend themselves. You seem to take issue with that. Apologies if I have it wrong. Whether the weapons are given, sold, whatever is irrelevant to the discussion. Do you think it is wrong to provide weapons to the Ukraine so that it can defend itself? As Corbyn does. We can all talk about peace and I'm sure most hope that the war in the Ukraine comes to and end sooner rather than later but Corbyn's idea of peace seems to involve removing the Ukraine's ability to defend itself and the inevitable result of Russian aggression. Just more kumbaya student politics b******s from Corbyn, lets not forget this is the clown who wanted to send a sample of the poising used at Salisbury to the Kremlin to ask if it was theirs. The guy is a ****wit. As he is proving once again here. You do have it wrong. Corbyn is not calling out those who are providing Ukraine with weapons so they can defend themselves. If you perceive the profit motive to be irrelveant then I guess that is the end of the discussion as you will lack any nuanced understanding of the real driving forces. I think it is wrong to sell Ukraine weapons so they can fight a proxy war with Russia (see previous nuanced comment). If we can all talk of peace, why don't we? Have you read Major General Smedley D Butlers text 'WAR IS A RACKET' ? Or is that just more student kumbaya bulls**t? Yeah, he's critical of those providing weapons to the Ukraine. That much is clear, it is included in the interview. And if you think, as Corbyn does also, that the Ukraine should be left to the mercy of Putin, Russia and it's allies then I guess you're right on that at least, we have nothing more to discuss. And it seems as though I didn't get it wrong at all, that is what you believe. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 2, 2022 13:57:52 GMT 1
Speaking of Corbyn (and think now looks to be the place for all things politics)... This guy is an idiot. What exactly does he think will happen if the Ukrainians are unable to defend themselves and their country...  You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes over. He was clear that Putin started a war and that Ukraine has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation and as the body bags go home....
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Post by block12massive on Aug 2, 2022 14:04:22 GMT 1
Speaking of Corbyn (and think now looks to be the place for all things politics)... This guy is an idiot. What exactly does he think will happen if the Ukrainians are unable to defend themselves and their country... You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes overHe was clear that Putin started a war and that Uckriane has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule though, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation andas the body bags go home....
No disrespect intended but is the insistence on incorrectly spelling it 'Uckraine' despite it appearing correctly in every single source material you've quoted on intentional or not? Apologies if not, I just wondered if it was one of those things people do like when they say 'Man Ure' instead of Man Utd or 'Liverpoo' instead of Liverpool. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 2, 2022 14:12:43 GMT 1
You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes overHe was clear that Putin started a war and that Uckriane has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule though, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation andas the body bags go home....
No disrespect intended but is the insistence on incorrectly spelling it 'Uckraine' despite it appearing correctly in every single source material you've quoted on intentional or not? Apologies if not, I just wondered if it was one of those things people do like when they say 'Man Ure' instead of Man Utd or 'Liverpoo' instead of Liverpool. Wow, I'd never spotted that! I must b a little disslexhic. Thank you for pointing it out, I will try to remember the correct spelling in future. I have corrected above and hope I got it right. I do like the "Liverpoo" one though  |
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Post by block12massive on Aug 2, 2022 14:16:10 GMT 1
No disrespect intended but is the insistence on incorrectly spelling it 'Uckraine' despite it appearing correctly in every single source material you've quoted on intentional or not? Apologies if not, I just wondered if it was one of those things people do like when they say 'Man Ure' instead of Man Utd or 'Liverpoo' instead of Liverpool. Wow, I'd never spotted that! I must b a little disslexhic. Thank you for pointing it out, I will try to remember the correct spelling in future. I have corrected above and hope I got it right. I do like the "Liverpoo" one though Sorry if I came across pedantic. I just thought there was an ulterior meaning or something! |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 2, 2022 14:17:16 GMT 1
Speaking of Corbyn (and think now looks to be the place for all things politics)... This guy is an idiot. What exactly does he think will happen if the Ukrainians are unable to defend themselves and their country... You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear.  I hear him just fine. He clearly does not believe that weapons should be provided to the Ukraine because it prolongs the war. Or did you not hear that? Yes, it does. In that it allows the Ukraine to defend itself rather than be overrun by Russian and other forces. It allows the Ukraine to defend itself and negotiate from a position of strength. What exactly do you think will happen (or would have already have happened) if others had not stepped in to provide support to the Ukraine? And then this... I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's ruleWhy? And then once you have figured that out maybe have another think. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 2, 2022 14:20:08 GMT 1
Wow, I'd never spotted that! I must b a little disslexhic. Thank you for pointing it out, I will try to remember the correct spelling in future. I have corrected above and hope I got it right. I do like the "Liverpoo" one though Sorry if I came across pedantic. I just thought there was an ulterior meaning or something! You didn't come across as pedantic - you have changed me for the better. Once again, many thanks. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 2, 2022 14:29:11 GMT 1
You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. I hear him just fine. He clearly does not believe that weapons should be provided to the Ukraine because it prolongs the war. Or did you not hear that? Yes, it does. In that it allows the Ukraine to defend itself rather than be overrun by Russian and other forces. It allows the Ukraine to defend itself and negotiate from a position of strength. What exactly do you think will happen (or would have already have happened) if others had not stepped in to provide support to the Ukraine? And then this... I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's ruleWhy? And then once you have figured that out maybe have another think. He says weapens are needed to defend an unjust war started by Putin. Do you think there is any chance of a ceasefire while Putin is in power? No real point carrying on with any further debate with you on this, you have your view, I have mine. Ukraine needs to defend itself. But Ukraine cannot continue to be destroyed, nor can Ukraine continue to lose good people, those killed in the conflict and those forced out of Ukraine who make a new life for themselves elsewhere. Therefore Ukraine needs peace, and I needed practice spelling Ukraine. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 2, 2022 15:13:58 GMT 1
I hear him just fine. He clearly does not believe that weapons should be provided to the Ukraine because it prolongs the war. Or did you not hear that? Yes, it does. In that it allows the Ukraine to defend itself rather than be overrun by Russian and other forces. It allows the Ukraine to defend itself and negotiate from a position of strength. What exactly do you think will happen (or would have already have happened) if others had not stepped in to provide support to the Ukraine? And then this... I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's ruleWhy? And then once you have figured that out maybe have another think. He says weapens are needed to defend an unjust war started by Putin. Do you think there is any chance of a ceasefire while Putin is in power? No real point carrying on with any further debate with you on this, you have your view, I have mine. Ukraine needs to defend itself. But Ukraine cannot continue to be destroyed, nor can Ukraine continue to lose good people, those killed in the conflict and those forced out of Ukraine who make a new life for themselves elsewhere. Therefore Ukraine needs peace, and I needed practice spelling Ukraine. You're all over the shop. Corbyn is clearly critical of the weapons being provided to the Ukraine because he believes that it prolongs the war. Did you hear him say that? Looking to those words I think its fair to say given the chance he would put a stop to that. Meaning the Ukraine would be left relatively defenseless against the Russian invasion. It does prolong the war in that it provides the weapons for the Ukraine to defend itself against Russia. It provides the Ukraine the chance to negotiate from a position of strength. Otherwise they could be looking at the real possibly of defeat. That is a "peace" that could well come about if the Ukraine is unable to defend itself. And if you don't think there is chance of a negotiated peace while Putin is in power then what other option is there other than for the Ukraine to defend itself. And how is it supposed to so that without the weapons to do so? Leaving them at the mercy of Putin and Russia. In saying that you are adding weight to the reason why it is so important to provide weapons to the Ukraine. The weapons Corbyn would rather not provide them. The mind boggles. |
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 2, 2022 15:28:56 GMT 1
You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. I hear him just fine. He clearly does not believe that weapons should be provided to the Ukraine because it prolongs the war. Or did you not hear that? Yes, it does. In that it allows the Ukraine to defend itself rather than be overrun by Russian and other forces. It allows the Ukraine to defend itself and negotiate from a position of strength. What exactly do you think will happen (or would have already have happened) if others had not stepped in to provide support to the Ukraine? And then this... I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's ruleWhy? And then once you have figured that out maybe have another think. Perhaps we should be giving enough weapons to Ukraine with enough potency to win the war rather than just enough to prolong the war but not upset Russia too much? This is what’s happening! hence Corbyn’s thoughts on the benefit of insufficient inadequate weapons dragging out the war…. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 2, 2022 15:40:52 GMT 1
I hear him just fine. He clearly does not believe that weapons should be provided to the Ukraine because it prolongs the war. Or did you not hear that? Yes, it does. In that it allows the Ukraine to defend itself rather than be overrun by Russian and other forces. It allows the Ukraine to defend itself and negotiate from a position of strength. What exactly do you think will happen (or would have already have happened) if others had not stepped in to provide support to the Ukraine? And then this... I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's ruleWhy? And then once you have figured that out maybe have another think. hence Corbyn’s thoughts on the benefit of insufficient inadequate weapons dragging out the war…. I'm not picking that up from what he said in that interview. I don't hear him using those words. I think that's spin on your part. This is what he said from what is reported... "Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war. We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.”
Has he said something other than that? Perhaps he would prefer it were days or weeks if the Ukraine is unable to defend itself. Without weapons it could well be that the Ukraine is defeated or at the very least it will be negotiating with a dagger at its throat. |
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Post by northwestman on Aug 3, 2022 9:43:55 GMT 1
This is a comment made about Rebekah Vardy, but could equally apply to Boris Johnson.
'Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) - is a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive attention-seeking behaviours. People with HPD have a high desire for attention, exaggerate their behaviours and emotions, and crave stimulation. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behaviour to achieve their own wants. People with HPD are also often found to suffer from narcissistic personality disorder features as well'.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Aug 3, 2022 10:15:28 GMT 1
Speaking of Corbyn (and think now looks to be the place for all things politics)... This guy is an idiot. What exactly does he think will happen if the Ukrainians are unable to defend themselves and their country... You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes over. He was clear that Putin started a war and that Ukraine has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation and as the body bags go home....
Yes, but there is also the bigger picture of deterring Russian aggression against the Baltic states and others, if Ukraine isn’t supported. The people in Russia who are concerned about Ukraine have absolutely no influence due to the total propaganda put out by the authorities. Corbyn is well-meaning but very naive it seems to me. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 3, 2022 10:29:54 GMT 1
You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes over. He was clear that Putin started a war and that Ukraine has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation and as the body bags go home....
Yes, but there is also the bigger picture of deterring Russian aggression against the Baltic states and others, if Ukraine isn’t supported. The people in Russia who are concerned about Ukraine have absolutely no influence due to the total propaganda put out by the authorities. Corbyn is well-meaning but very naive it seems to me. Corbyn is a pacifist and, ultimately, he is right. Can't just go on with a Vietnam style war, at some stage there has to be peace. But he does say Russia is in the wrong and Ukraine has to defend itself. If he was in power he would have had to do the same things as have been done. Russia cannot be allowed to win. Even if he wanted to follow his pacifist principles he would have still been faced with Putin, the mood in his cabinet, the mood in parliament, the mood in the country and the mood in the EU and wider world. He would have wanted a bigger input earlier from the UN though, who have now redeeemed themselves somewhat with the grain shipment deal. |
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Post by block12massive on Aug 3, 2022 10:38:30 GMT 1
I don't think I've ever agreed with Jeremy Corbyn in my life but I do here.
I've said from the off that brokering a peace deal to prevent further unnecessary deaths should have been the number one priority but it seems the EU/UN were determined to prop up this war come what May.
I'm not entirely sure what's on the cards other than the perpetual cycle of long-term suffering for everyone involved.
New European Imperialism vs Old Russian Imperialism.
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kp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 495
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Post by kp on Aug 3, 2022 10:59:02 GMT 1
I don't think I've ever agreed with Jeremy Corbyn in my life but I do here. I've said from the off that brokering a peace deal to prevent further unnecessary deaths should have been the number one priority but it seems the EU/UN were determined to prop up this war come what May. I'm not entirely sure what's on the cards other than the perpetual cycle of long-term suffering for everyone involved. New European Imperialism vs Old Russian Imperialism. War Is A Racket. Add declining US hegemony to the Imperialism mix. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 3, 2022 11:27:02 GMT 1
I don't think I've ever agreed with Jeremy Corbyn in my life but I do here. Bed rest, a nice lie down in a darkened room. You have taken your medication today haven't you? |
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 3, 2022 12:39:30 GMT 1
You may listen to Corbyn, but you don't hear. When the name Corbyn comes up the blue mist takes over. He was clear that Putin started a war and that Ukraine has to defend itself. But he also made it clear that wars go on and on until ceasefires take place.
Think Northern Ireland. At some point peace has to be discussed, even by mortal enemies. I doubt very much it could happen under Putin's rule, but, as Corbyn says, there are people in Russia with disquiet about the situation and as the body bags go home....
Yes, but there is also the bigger picture of deterring Russian aggression against the Baltic states and others, if Ukraine isn’t supported. The people in Russia who are concerned about Ukraine have absolutely no influence due to the total propaganda put out by the authorities. Corbyn is well-meaning but very naive it seems to me. But we aren’t giving Ukraine sufficient effective weapons to beat Russia just prolong the war which results in more casualties , if we really wanted to ‘deter’ Russia we could but we’re basically scared of Putins reaction. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Aug 3, 2022 16:07:10 GMT 1
Yes, but there is also the bigger picture of deterring Russian aggression against the Baltic states and others, if Ukraine isn’t supported. The people in Russia who are concerned about Ukraine have absolutely no influence due to the total propaganda put out by the authorities. Corbyn is well-meaning but very naive it seems to me. But we aren’t giving Ukraine sufficient effective weapons to beat Russia just prolong the war which results in more casualties , if we really wanted to ‘deter’ Russia we could but we’re basically scared of Putins reaction. Ukraine have only been given 19 Himars multiple rocket launcers that have had a major impact on destroying russian supply lines. key bridges and amo dumps. between the russian ukraine war and Chinas plans of expansion as a global trade power and its imtimmidation of its neighbouers the world has beecome a more unsafe place , we have two powers with autocratic leadership, Putin and Xi Jinping both have removed all oposition both state control over its people .both hate to lose face that makes them very dangerous . America can wage a proxy war on Russia just as Russians & China did in korea and china and russia did in vietnam. |
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Post by northwestman on Aug 3, 2022 18:21:09 GMT 1
Met Police sleaze. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/03/daniel-morgan-murder-no-officers-will-face-punishment-says-police-watchdog-cressida-dickEvery officer involved in the Daniel Morgan scandal will escape punishment, the police watchdog has announced, despite an independent inquiry finding that corruption in the Metropolitan police shielded the private detective’s killers with the force ignoring information. Those escaping any action include the former Met commissioner Cressida Dick, who the inquiry accused of hampering its work. Morgan was found dead in a south London car park in 1987 with an axe in his head. No one has been convicted of his murder. The Morgan family reacted with anger and disappointment at the announcement by the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), having spent 35 years fighting what they see as a cover-up and failure to confront corruption. |
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Post by ssshrew on Aug 3, 2022 18:24:53 GMT 1
Yet again the establishment beats the system. I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel if I were his family.
Everything just stinks at the moment.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 5, 2022 8:13:32 GMT 1
But we aren’t giving Ukraine sufficient effective weapons to beat Russia just prolong the war which results in more casualties , if we really wanted to ‘deter’ Russia we could but we’re basically scared of Putins reaction. Ukraine have only been given 19 Himars multiple rocket launcers that have had a major impact on destroying russian supply lines. key bridges and amo dumps. between the russian ukraine war and Chinas plans of expansion as a global trade power and its imtimmidation of its neighbouers the world has beecome a more unsafe place , we have two powers with autocratic leadership, Putin and Xi Jinping both have removed all oposition both state control over its people .both hate to lose face that makes them very dangerous . America can wage a proxy war on Russia just as Russians & China did in korea and china and russia did in vietnam. Without such weapons and without the means to defend itself there would be no Ukraine. Without the means to defend itself there can be no negotiated peace. Without the means to defend itself Ukraine would simply be overwhelmed, annexed and incorporated into a larger Russia. And we know this because Putin and others have been pretty clear and open about their thoughts on Ukraine, its there for all to see. And no doubt we would see the atrocities that have taken place in the eastern part of Ukraine replicated throughout the whole country. The naivety shown by Corbyn and others is staggering to see. |
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Post by block12massive on Aug 5, 2022 8:34:15 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62431183"Sir Keir Starmer has been found to have breached the MPs' code of conduct by failing to register eight interests on time, including gifts from football teams and the sale of a plot of land.
The standards commissioner launched an investigation in June after complaints the Labour leader had been late to register income and hospitality.
Kathryn Stone said the breaches were "minor and/or inadvertent".
A Labour spokesperson said Sir Keir had apologised for the errors.
The commissioner initially began to investigate after complaints Sir Keir had failed to register three instances of income and hospitality and then found four further instances of late entries.
When writing to Ms Stone to "offer explanation, apology and reassurances that measures had been put in place to prevent any reoccurrence", Sir Keir also raised another instance of the sale of a plot of land that exceeded the £100,000 threshold for registration to the House authorities." BBC. Fiddling the system  I've always thought much like that Sad Khan t*sser, Starmer seems to pop up at every sporting event of national interest. Snouts well and truly in the trough.
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Post by northwestman on Aug 5, 2022 9:06:12 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62431183"Sir Keir Starmer has been found to have breached the MPs' code of conduct by failing to register eight interests on time, including gifts from football teams and the sale of a plot of land.
The standards commissioner launched an investigation in June after complaints the Labour leader had been late to register income and hospitality.
Kathryn Stone said the breaches were "minor and/or inadvertent".
A Labour spokesperson said Sir Keir had apologised for the errors.
The commissioner initially began to investigate after complaints Sir Keir had failed to register three instances of income and hospitality and then found four further instances of late entries.
When writing to Ms Stone to "offer explanation, apology and reassurances that measures had been put in place to prevent any reoccurrence", Sir Keir also raised another instance of the sale of a plot of land that exceeded the £100,000 threshold for registration to the House authorities." BBC. Fiddling the system I've always thought much like that Sad Khan t*sser, Starmer seems to pop up at every sporting event of national interest. Snouts well and truly in the trough. Yes, and that includes Truss. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-fizz-champagne-dinner-donations-investigation-b2138193.htmland also Johnson. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-break-rules-financial-declaration-a8859736.html |
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Post by wookeywombat on Aug 5, 2022 11:18:08 GMT 1
No excuse for any of them left, right or centre. It just goes to show how incompetent they are and more so if they apologise for lack of oversight.
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 6, 2022 11:17:43 GMT 1
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Post by block12massive on Aug 10, 2022 13:55:37 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Aug 10, 2022 14:29:34 GMT 1
I agree with him, Labour needs renaming. It's a bit like MK Dons & Wimbledon, this new lot shouldn't be allowed to carry the old lots great name. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 10, 2022 14:47:12 GMT 1
Does an influence of Corbyn and Momentum on the local Shropshire Labour party constitute parliamentry sleaze? What exactly is wrong with an influence of Corbyn and Momentum? Just like the Tories, Labour has a broad set of members.
It's pretty obvious, I would have thought that the Lib Dems are the party to defeat an entrenched Tory MP in Shrewsbury and Atcham, isn't that why he's moved over?.
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