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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 16:49:33 GMT 1
if anything it sets a good benchmark to other 'kids' with 'ideas' That's hit the nail firmly on the head as to why the then Home Secretary made that decision.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 22, 2023 16:54:07 GMT 1
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't know how comfortable I feel about leaving a British born female stateless.
Factor in that she was married off as a child, lost her three best friends and has also lost five children (two before birth and three after birth) and it makes it even more uncomfortable.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 16:56:35 GMT 1
The "she was a child" comment raises an interesting point of, admitted, "wharaboutery" in my mind. Those who committed one of the worst crimes committed by children, the Bulger murder, served a long senrence and then got new identities, time served for that offence, (though may be in for something else now). This women was originally British? She should therefore face British law with an eventual rehabiitation. didn't she face British law today ? , and lost would you mind if we her back and found her a cosy place next door to you at our expense ? no thanks Is taking away your citizenship some sort of standard sentence in British law?
I'd rather have her living next door than either of the Bulger killers. Could we have taken away their citizenship?
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Post by Pilch on Feb 22, 2023 17:05:47 GMT 1
didn't she face British law today ? , and lost would you mind if we her back and found her a cosy place next door to you at our expense ? no thanks Is taking away your citizenship some sort of standard sentence in British law?
I'd rather have her living next door than either of the Bulger killers. Could we have taken away their citizenship?
I guess so had they left the country to become a terrorist against the likes of the uk instead we rehabilitated them and then released them to offend again
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 17:11:51 GMT 1
Is taking away your citizenship some sort of standard sentence in British law?
I'd rather have her living next door than either of the Bulger killers. Could we have taken away their citizenship?
I guess so had they left the country to become a terrorist against the likes of the uk instead we rehabilitated them and then released them to offend again Because that's how British justice works, except in this case where a crafty Home Secretary played the alleged dual citizenship card to stop the problem, for now.
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Post by The Clash 1966 on Feb 22, 2023 17:16:01 GMT 1
Is taking away your citizenship some sort of standard sentence in British law?
I'd rather have her living next door than either of the Bulger killers. Could we have taken away their citizenship?
I guess so had they left the country to become a terrorist against the likes of the uk instead we rehabilitated them and then released them to offend again she had dual nationality UK/ Bangladeshi.taking away the UK citizenship leaves her with Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh is great. Amazing food and wicked cricket
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Post by mattmw on Feb 22, 2023 17:26:30 GMT 1
According to this Guardian article it seems that quite a few people have had citizenship removed www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/21/hundreds-stripped-british-citizenship-last-15-years-study-finds#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20most%20well,it%20restored%20in%20February%202021 Its understandable the figures have gone up in the last 10 years due to terrorism now being on an international scale, I again you have to assume the authorities and ultimately the Home Secretary are only using this with really clear evidence in place. What is slightly concerning in this article is this case "In one case revealed by the Observer this week, a 40-year-old man, referred to only as E3, was stripped of his British citizenship in 2017. He was born in London to parents of Bangladeshi heritage, but had his citizenship removed when he flew to Bangladesh. He was told he was an “Islamist extremist who had previously sought to travel abroad to participate in terrorism-related activity”. He has never been arrested or questioned in relation to these claims, nor has he been provided with any evidence which substantiates these claims. His citizenship was reinstated after the Home Office accepted he is stateless as a result of having his British citizenship taken away from him" Sorry old chap we seem to have accidently removed your citizenship by mistake, no hard feelings see you back in Blightly soon
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 17:37:38 GMT 1
So, if you were born in this country to foreign parents, be wary, you are only "half" British. Watch out Suella Braverman, Rishi Sunak, etc.
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Post by The Clash 1966 on Feb 22, 2023 17:38:15 GMT 1
I used to work for the F.O and dual nationality was treated with Suspicion and anything that was remotely deemed as a threat to the UK was thrown out a.s.a.p.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 22, 2023 17:57:54 GMT 1
So, if you were born in this country to foreign parents, be wary, you are only "half" British. Watch out Suella Braverman, Rishi Sunak, etc. Didn't Boris Johnson have dual UK USA citizenship for a while? Maybe one for the next Labour Home Secretary to think about...
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 18:02:32 GMT 1
So, if you were born in this country to foreign parents, be wary, you are only "half" British. Watch out Suella Braverman, Rishi Sunak, etc. Didn't Boris Johnson have dual UK USA citizenship for a while? Maybe one for the next Labour Home Secretary to think about... Sunak may well have considered the citizenship status of Bojo and Truss already.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 22, 2023 18:04:49 GMT 1
I used to work for the F.O and dual nationality was treated with Suspicion and anything that was remotely deemed as a threat to the UK was thrown out a.s.a.p. Probably not something you can expand on due to terms of employment, but isn't part of the problem that anything "remotely" deemed a threat is rather open to intepretation? It requires the public to put a lot of trust on senior officials to be doing the right thing based on sound evidence. With issues like Windrush deportatations and the Afghanistan evacuation and subsequent mishandling of information about those left behind hardly instill confidence the evidence they are using is wholey accurate
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Post by The Clash 1966 on Feb 22, 2023 18:38:35 GMT 1
I used to work for the F.O and dual nationality was treated with Suspicion and anything that was remotely deemed as a threat to the UK was thrown out a.s.a.p. Probably not something you can expand on due to terms of employment, but isn't part of the problem that anything "remotely" deemed a threat is rather open to intepretation? It requires the public to put a lot of trust on senior officials to be doing the right thing based on sound evidence. With issues like Windrush deportatations and the Afghanistan evacuation and subsequent mishandling of information about those left behind hardly instill confidence the evidence they are using is wholey accurate the things you mentioned were sadly admin cock ups and way above my pay grade. You could have a graduate / grunt dealing with a case that could impact 100's of people and their decision would not be questíoned the interesting stuff was usually about one or two individuals that would occupy the entire department for weeks. as usual the ordinary folk were left to rot which is why when I could I retired early.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2023 19:55:55 GMT 1
Hopefully she’s never allowed back
Shame we aren’t so divisive with the other thousands who have no right to be here…
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 20:10:12 GMT 1
She needs to come home and be locked up for what ever the punishment is. You can leave a person without a nation? What going to happen if there's an uprising in a country of all these people who doesn't have a nation Isis starts again.
We need to take responsibility for our citizen and make sure she isn't a threat to any other country including ours by bringing her home and facing a trial for terrorism.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 22, 2023 20:19:54 GMT 1
So, if you were born in this country to foreign parents, be wary, you are only "half" British. Watch out Suella Braverman, Rishi Sunak, etc. we've already had one prime minister who became a terrorist thanks
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 20:32:50 GMT 1
She needs to come home and be locked up for what ever the punishment is. You can leave a person without a nation? What going to happen if there's an uprising in a country of all these people who doesn't have a nation Isis starts again. We need to take responsibility for our citizen and make sure she isn't a threat to any other country including ours by bringing her home and facing a trial for terrorism. Hear! hear! Anything else is just shirking our responsibiiities. Not the sort of thing a respectable government resorts to.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 22, 2023 20:43:26 GMT 1
She needs to come home and be locked up for what ever the punishment is. You can leave a person without a nation? What going to happen if there's an uprising in a country of all these people who doesn't have a nation Isis starts again. We need to take responsibility for our citizen and make sure she isn't a threat to any other country including ours by bringing her home and facing a trial for terrorism. Hear! hear! Anything else is just shirking our responsibiiities. Not the sort of thing a respectable government resorts to. if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 21:00:23 GMT 1
Hear! hear! Anything else is just shirking our responsibiiities. Not the sort of thing a respectable government resorts to. if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better I thought like that 11 months ago but after a debate on Talk radio and 5 live balance i know, shocking! I was convinced that bring her home lock her up is the safest place for her. Quite sad to thing that she's somebodies else problem, remember she was that far away before and more of a threat. Are you one of these that think that no war is not our problem including Ukraine?
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Post by Pilch on Feb 22, 2023 21:06:55 GMT 1
if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better I thought like that 11 months ago but after a debate on Talk radio and 5 live balance i know, shocking! I was convinced that bring her home lock her up is the safest place for her. Quite sad to thing that she's somebodies else problem, remember she was that far away before and more of a threat. Are you one of these that think that no war is not our problem including Ukraine? maybe if you check my comments on the wars including Ukraine you'll realise how stupid your accusation is and also irrelevant to this thread
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2023 21:13:47 GMT 1
Hear! hear! Anything else is just shirking our responsibiiities. Not the sort of thing a respectable government resorts to. if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better Maybe it's because the result of the court case came in today? I don't care two hoots about her, but about dealing with her appropriately. Wiping Britain's hands of her makes me think of leaving a lit firework that hasn't gone off where it is and hoping nothing dangerous will happen, rather than dealing with it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 21:19:43 GMT 1
I thought like that 11 months ago but after a debate on Talk radio and 5 live balance i know, shocking! I was convinced that bring her home lock her up is the safest place for her. Quite sad to thing that she's somebodies else problem, remember she was that far away before and more of a threat. Are you one of these that think that no war is not our problem including Ukraine? maybe if you check my comments on the wars including Ukraine you'll realise how stupid your accusation is and also irrelevant to this thread Is it? did we not go to war? what did you think was going to happen we would shoot ever Isis member? I don't remember one war where there was no prisoners and people got tried for there crimes? I think your forgetting that she's a threat a long way away, is Putin not a threat hundreds of miles away? she is in our prison for 20 to 30 years she not a problem?
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Post by Worthingshrew on Feb 22, 2023 21:40:35 GMT 1
if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better I thought like that 11 months ago but after a debate on Talk radio and 5 live balance i know, shocking! I was convinced that bring her home lock her up is the safest place for her. Quite sad to thing that she's somebodies else problem, remember she was that far away before and more of a threat. Are you one of these that think that no war is not our problem including Ukraine? Well I don’t think she should be our problem. I’m normally quite liberal in many matters, but I believe she is an intelligent woman who knew exactly what she was doing, and went to live and support an organisation effectively at war with us. She made her bed, and now must lie in it.
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Post by belfastshrew on Feb 22, 2023 22:21:20 GMT 1
She left in traditional dress...and now dresses like an american...alarm bells are ringing...
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Post by Pilch on Feb 23, 2023 0:39:48 GMT 1
maybe if you check my comments on the wars including Ukraine you'll realise how stupid your accusation is and also irrelevant to this thread Is it? did we not go to war? what did you think was going to happen we would shoot ever Isis member? I don't remember one war where there was no prisoners and people got tried for there crimes? I think your forgetting that she's a threat a long way away, is Putin not a threat hundreds of miles away? she is in our prison for 20 to 30 years she not a problem? putin is becoming less of a threat by the day
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 23, 2023 7:29:51 GMT 1
So, if you were born in this country to foreign parents, be wary, you are only "half" British. Watch out Suella Braverman, Rishi Sunak, etc. we've already had one prime minister who became a terrorist thanks I can only assume that you are talking about Blair, so I'll reiterate what I have said many, many times on here before only 2 Tory MPs voted against going into Iraq, with another 17 abstentions. Every MP from the LibDems bar 1, all of the SNP and Plaid Cymru voted no, along with 84 Labour MPs (including a certain Mr Corbyn). If the Tories had voted no the invasion would not have happened.
Aye Labour Party (254), Conservative Party (146), Ulster Unionist Party (6), Democratic Unionist Party (5), Independent Conservative (1) 412 / 659
No Labour Party (84), Liberal Democrats (52), Scottish National Party (5), Plaid Cymru (4), Conservative Party (2), Independent Community and Health Concern (1), Social Democratic and Labour Party (1) 149 / 659
Abstentions Speaker of the House (1), Labour Party (69), Conservative Party (17), Sinn Féin (4), Social Democratic and Labour Party (2), Liberal Democrats (1) 94 / 659
Tellers Labour Party (3), Conservative Party (1); not counted in vote totals. 4 / 659
The blame for the invasion lies mainly with Blair and his 'dodgy dossier', but the Tories and their Unionist mates from Northern Ireland are equally complicit. It's a shame that those 69 Labour abstentions couldn't find the guts to actually say no, rather than sitting on the fence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2023 7:40:52 GMT 1
Asylum claims for 12,000 to be considered without face-to-face interview www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64736123So a short survey will now get you into the U.K. and of course they’ll all be completely honest when filling that in…
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Post by Pilch on Feb 23, 2023 7:53:58 GMT 1
we've already had one prime minister who became a terrorist thanks I can only assume that you are talking about Blair, so I'll reiterate what I have said many, many times on here before only 2 Tory MPs voted against going into Iraq, with another 17 abstentions. Every MP from the LibDems bar 1, all of the SNP and Plaid Cymru voted no, along with 84 Labour MPs (including a certain Mr Corbyn). If the Tories had voted no the invasion would not have happened.
Aye Labour Party (254), Conservative Party (146), Ulster Unionist Party (6), Democratic Unionist Party (5), Independent Conservative (1) 412 / 659
No Labour Party (84), Liberal Democrats (52), Scottish National Party (5), Plaid Cymru (4), Conservative Party (2), Independent Community and Health Concern (1), Social Democratic and Labour Party (1) 149 / 659
Abstentions Speaker of the House (1), Labour Party (69), Conservative Party (17), Sinn Féin (4), Social Democratic and Labour Party (2), Liberal Democrats (1) 94 / 659
Tellers Labour Party (3), Conservative Party (1); not counted in vote totals. 4 / 659
The blame for the invasion lies mainly with Blair and his 'dodgy dossier', but the Tories and their Unionist mates from Northern Ireland are equally complicit. It's a shame that those 69 Labour abstentions couldn't find the guts to actually say no, rather than sitting on the fence.
only one was pm at the time
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 23, 2023 8:08:51 GMT 1
I can only assume that you are talking about Blair, so I'll reiterate what I have said many, many times on here before only 2 Tory MPs voted against going into Iraq, with another 17 abstentions. Every MP from the LibDems bar 1, all of the SNP and Plaid Cymru voted no, along with 84 Labour MPs (including a certain Mr Corbyn). If the Tories had voted no the invasion would not have happened.
Aye Labour Party (254), Conservative Party (146), Ulster Unionist Party (6), Democratic Unionist Party (5), Independent Conservative (1) 412 / 659
No Labour Party (84), Liberal Democrats (52), Scottish National Party (5), Plaid Cymru (4), Conservative Party (2), Independent Community and Health Concern (1), Social Democratic and Labour Party (1) 149 / 659
Abstentions Speaker of the House (1), Labour Party (69), Conservative Party (17), Sinn Féin (4), Social Democratic and Labour Party (2), Liberal Democrats (1) 94 / 659
Tellers Labour Party (3), Conservative Party (1); not counted in vote totals. 4 / 659
The blame for the invasion lies mainly with Blair and his 'dodgy dossier', but the Tories and their Unionist mates from Northern Ireland are equally complicit. It's a shame that those 69 Labour abstentions couldn't find the guts to actually say no, rather than sitting on the fence.
only one was pm at the time I don't know whether you actually realize, but being PM doesn't give you all that much power. Just ask Theresa May. You need your party with you and there would have been enough support for the 'no' vote if the abstentions in the Labour party and the Tories had voted that way. I know you have a downer on Blair and fully understand and support that view, the guy was a t***** of the highest order, but he's been gone now for over 15 years. He sees his greatest achievement since leaving Downing St was ensuring that enough in the PLP failed to support Corbyn in 2017.
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Post by davycrockett on Feb 23, 2023 9:06:32 GMT 1
Hear! hear! Anything else is just shirking our responsibiiities. Not the sort of thing a respectable government resorts to. if you care so much about her, how come today is the first time you've mentioned her for 12 months ? there are another 20 each year like her who have their citizenship removed due to national security reasons, ( 175 between 2006 & 2020 ) I dont care about any of them, the further away the better How many of them are white?
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