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Post by martinshrew on Nov 22, 2020 21:52:58 GMT 1
Ricketts can't be on more than £150k a year. He's got 7-8 months left so that's £80-100k ish WORST CASE.
You'd think there's a break clause. If not and he was offered £50k to walk, he probably would knowing he'd possibly get a League Two job in January or June. Are you that naive to think we can't afford the £100k if needed, nevermind the fact it's probably less?
I'm convinced relegation would cost us 1000 minimum off the gate without doubt due to the situation, people's personal situations and a drop to league two on top with people think we're going backwards. Start the season badly and it could be nearer 2000 off the gate.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 21:58:15 GMT 1
The Club needs to remain in a healthy a financial position as possible when full service (so to speak) is resumed.
I can see the arguments for Ricketts to get the sack, but why pay someone off when we can get rid in May?
I hate to think how much money the Club is losing right now and how long the 2 million in the bank is going to last if we can't get 5500 back in the ground before spring.
My view is if we're in the 4th tier next season, then so be it. As long as the Club is healthy.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 22, 2020 22:02:54 GMT 1
i also said we are in the middle of a crisis, and i was replying to someone suggesting if we go down we wont be playing the likes of sunderland and pompey next season i suggested whether in league 1 or 2 our attendance might be exactly the same with zero away fans and perhaps zero home fans or season ticket holders only anyway and if we are still in covid and end up changing the manager twice i said we could find ourselves in dire straits its a far cry from making out i happily want to go down 1) With a vaccine being rolled out from next month it’s not optimistic to think we’ll be back to attending normally come August 2021. 2) We don’t know the full facts of what our finances are. No clubs have gone bust yet, which would suggest things aren’t as bad as people are saying. We’d be one of the last clubs to go bust even with a manager change. 1). dont count your chickens..... 2). Never test the depth of water with both feet ;-)
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Post by stfcfan87 on Nov 22, 2020 23:20:19 GMT 1
Fair play to Pilch sticking to his views. It is good for debate to have a disagreeing view...... Would be good to hear from the silent members 9 who voted to keep Sam Ricketts and the 23 still sitting on the fence? I was on the fence, but changed my vote for him to go. Now I'm back on the fence.
I think the last few weeks have seen something of an improvement, not enough for me to say he should stay, but enough to think maybe he could do with another few weeks and see if he can build on it.
In all competitions this month we have scored 11 goals with 2 games still to play, throughout September and October we only scored 12. That is an improvement in anyone's eyes. The goals against column is still not good enough, but to play one of the better clubs in the league in Ipswich and only lose due to a couple of lapses isn't too bad IMO.
If we can get a decent performance and preferably a clean sheet and a result against MK and then get past Oxford City and potentially a decent draw in round 3 I would hope that some would see that as a sign of further improvement.
Come January Goss and Love will hopefully be welcomed back into the first team fold and we can lose a couple of the underachievers from the league squad. That will be like getting two new signings without spending a penny.
Like I said I'm on the fence and am yet to be convinced that Ricketts is the right man. If we are still in trouble by the middle of next month and out of the FA cup then I will probably change my mind again.
No offence, but that's quite a low bar In the league, which is what I think matters, we've scored 10 goals in 11 games. That's 0.91 goals per game last season we scored 31 in 34, which is 0.91 goals per game In his first season under him we scored 28 in 26, 1.08 goals per game. We've become less potent with his own players than the ones he was left with. In total, its 69 goals in 71 games . 0.97 goals per game.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 22, 2020 23:44:28 GMT 1
Apologies, long post alert so I've put a summary up top if you can't be bothered to read the detail; essentially, in my opinion (backed up below), the cost of replacing the manager is neither here nor there and we are not going bust any time soon (although a poor showing in 21/22 would certainly put us in trouble).
In a nutshell, to get to the bottom of the answer of whether or not we can afford to sack the manager, we need to know two things; 1 How much will it cost and 2 Do we have enough money? Then there's the tertiary question of "should we?".
Annoyingly, I'm going to say that we can't answer 1 definitively; we just don't have enough info to figure out what the costs associated are. The last two managers we fired (and according to B & A lore, paid off) were Mickey Mellon and John Askey. There's two (or three, depending on which way you look at it) places that cost could show up in the available info we have; Cost of Sales or Admin Costs (we do also have a sub analysis of staff costs, but we aren't told what lines these slot into in the club's summary P & L statement).
Comparing these in 15/16 and 16/17 (when Mellon was fired), we see cost of sales actually fell by £400k in 16/17 (£4.872m to £4.484m) and admin costs rose from £759k to £811k over the same period. Interestingly, staff costs were actually lower in 2016/17 than in 2015/16 also, falling from £3.73m to £3.5m despite the average number of players on the books only falling by 2 (45 to 43) across the same period (no idea where the manager sits in that analysis). On the face of it, it doesn't look like we incurred a massive cost by firing Mellon; staff costs only fell by £230k approximately, meaning there was a further reduction in other costs of sales, despite firing the manager. Admin costs were up by just over £50k; I guess that any fee for Paul Hurst would likely have been capitalised so I guess it's possible the additional £50k is some kind of pay off? Was his contract due to expire at the end of the season anyway, and if so, does that give us an indication of the likely cost involved for a similar transaction for Ricketts? Answers on a postcard please.
Does the Askey to Ricketts transition give us more info? Cost of sales rose by just under £500k between 17/18 and 18/19, admin costs rose from £1.074m to £1.288m, whilst wages went up just under £390k. Whilst these all seem like pretty substantial increases, I should point out this is in line with the trend; cost of sales went up from £4.484m to £5.168m in 17/18, admin costs £811k to £1.074m and wages £3.503m to £3.768m so we see pretty similar increases even in a year where there was no managerial firing.
Can they capitalise these things and therefore hide them from the P & L? It's true that we saw a pretty substantial fall in cash between 15/16 and 16/17 but on closer inspection it looks like there's very little in capitalised intangible fixed assets (we end the season with £20k) and the cash flow statement tells us the £900k+ drop in cash is a combination of adjusting out £988k profit on disposal of players (Woods and Goldson - transfer fees probably actually received in cash in the next season but under the accruals system have to be accounted for at the point of agreeing the sale) and £403k investment in tangible fixed assets (training ground?) against a profit of about £400k. So in short, no evidence of a whopping great pay out for sacking the manager either time (we ended 18/19 £180k down but spent around £630k on the ground and on transfer fees).
So, in short, we can't know for sure what else is hidden in the cost of sales and admin boxes that we can't see in staff costs but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the cost of paying off a manager with less than a year on his contract is not enormous, likely less than 6 figures. As Jake/blazey points out, this is not an unusual occurrence and it's highly unlikely the club doesn't have some sort of contingency reserve for this.
So question 2, are we so hard up we can't even afford that?
To try and get an idea of the state of our finances, let's compare 16/17 (where we exited the league and FA Cups at the 2nd round stage, FL trophy at the group stage) with 17/18 (1 Cup Wembley final and an away tie at the Olympic Stadium in front of 39k) and 18/19 seasons (away ties at Stoke, 10k in attendance, and Wolves, the latter in front of a 28k crowd);
16/17 saw us turnover £4.715m, vs £6.580m in 17/18 and £5.367m in 18/19. Taking the Hurst and Ricketts cup games, the attendances at Ricketts' two away fixtures in the 18/19 FA Cup are broadly comparable in total to Hurst's away trip to West Ham. We also would have received a further £82k we for winning the 3rd round we wouldn't have got under Hurst. Attendance wise, attendances were actually higher in 18/19 (average 6,407) than 17/18 (average 6,249), so that doesn't explain a £1.2m variance either; clearly 2 Wembley finals will likely have had something to do with it.
If you compare 16/17 (no cup runs or playoffs, average gate 5,507) with 18/19, we see an increase in turnover of about £650k, all of which is wiped out by an increase in cost of sales of £1.2m (£4.484m in 16/17 rising to £5.652m in 18/19), turning a £230k gross profit in a disappointing 16/17 to a (£286k) gross loss in cup exploit laden 18/19.
18/19's accounts show £2.7m in cash, plus a further £2.6m waiting in current debtors (presumably part of the fees for Nolan and Nsiala). We can't know a) that Ipswich paid up and b) what further outlay there was on transfer fees but I'm assuming the club would have been more vocal if Ipswich had failed to pay and we know, again from the accounts (so verifiable fact now conjecture), that we outlaid £530k on transfer fees in 18/19. 19/20 saw us pay fees for several players including Aaron Pierre, Ethan Ebanks-Landell and Jason Cummings (as well as Sean Goss, Steve Morrison and others). It's not unreasonable to speculate that our outlay would have been higher in 19/20 but it's still likely we were left with a net £2m inflow from transfer dealings (probably more when you factor in the Feji sale).
Using 18/19 as a guide, and considering our Liverpool game and tv money but also the fact we had 6 fewer home games and only one high attendance cup game, I'd estimate we are anywhere between 85% and 90% of 18/19's turnover, but that cost of sales is likely to have followed the trend and gone up as have admin costs. Then you need to factor in furlough. This is some serious guesswork at this point I'll admit but the total of cost of sales and admin costs as at 18/19 was just under £7m (more like £6.9m). The trend for the last 3 years is for cost of sales to increase about £500k and admin costs about £200k, so let's call it £7.5m for 19/20? Adjust out the last few months for furlough and we're looking at maybe £7m again against an estimated turnover of about £4.5m which means a net cash outflow (if we bank on the net £2m from transfers per the above) of about £0.5m, taking us down to about £2.2m at August/September 2020.
Transfers in were a lot lighter in 20/21 (understandably) so we've likely only paid a low 5 figure sum for Josh Daniels and are maybe due another instalment on Feji's fee. P & L wise, we've netted about £750k from season tickets, most if not all upfront, swelling the coffers to about £3m. We are still due TV money which has been estimated at about £550k on this thread, presumably upfront too (or at least sufficiently sure of receipt that we can bank on it), so make that £3.5m. Sponsorship wise, I have no idea how to estimate that or where it sits in the accounts but we have a line for "sundry income" which goes from £1.6m in 2018 to £1m in 2019. Going to take a wild guess at £.5m, to take us up to a round £4m. Costs wise, you'd have to assume a fair chunk of our staff are still furloughed so out of a wage bill of £4.5m ish, we're maybe running at £3m now players and a few others are back, so about £250k per month net? Ultimately, we've felt comfortable enough to increase our playing budget with several high profile signings in the last month or so, so clearly the club are not afraid to spend on wages and also keen to invest to stay in the league (which kind of flies in the face of the "if we spend any money at all, we'll have to make someone redundant" argument). I guess we've got about £1m headroom as it stands, much more if there's a 7 figure sum coming in support as mooted plus with the vaccine being rolled out it is now probable rather than possible fans will be back for the 20/21 season so we are not going to run out of cash in the short to medium term.
All of which leads is to point 3; should we?
Given how high our cost of sales and admin costs are, it's likely that the only way we can actually turn a profit, whatever division we are in now, is by selling players for a good profit and by generating a higher gross margin through good performances on the pitch. We tend to turnover around £5m - £6m, but spend most of that on Cost of Sales, with admin costs running at well over £1m, meaning we are often reliant on profits on player sales to fill the coffers.
According to 18/19's accounts, we disposed of transfer fees of £95k, suggesting Hurst turned an investment of £95k into £4m for us and got us to 2 Wembley finals, probably netting around a £5m profit in total for the club through his actions that season. Mellon also made a £1m profit on disposal of Woods and Goldson and saw us achieve our best gross margin in recent years. Even Askey is likely to have turned a profit on the sale of Okenabirhie. Ricketts on the other hand has significantly underperformed Paul Hurst on the pitch, spent more on transfer fees (£300k total in 17/18 vs likely a million plus over the last 2 seasons) and underperformed out last 2 long term managers financially as costs have risen during his time. We now have players we paid a fee for, like Goss and Cummings, languishing on the bench or not even registered in the squad, rather than playing for us a creating the possibility of a good transfer fee.
It's really hard to see a metric by which you can argue that Ricketts deserves more of a chance than, say, Mellon, who actually did arguably as well in the Cups, actually led us to a promotion and achieved some high transfer fees. I think I'm right in saying Mellon was relieved of his duties 11 games in (having won 2, the season after a good showing in the Cup and a disappointing league finish - sound familiar?), Askey something similar. Ricketts now has 1 win in 12. On past form, I'd say Roland has the P45 ready to go. However, as we know, budget setting has likely had to go out of the window so the club won't know what level of ambition they can show in appointing a manager until they know what, if any, additional funds may be forthcoming in terms of a support package.
One thing we do know though, is that in the event of nothing at all coming out of these discussions and then another disappointing year in 21/22, marked by lower attendances, poor performances and no player sales, may see us run an operating loss of up to £1m, given our high admin costs - I suspect that this really could put us in trouble and ultimately, that is why I think the clube has to act soon. Whether Ricketts is the guy leading us that season or not, a relegation will see us have to start from scratch, cut costs significantly and lose the financial advantage we've enjoyed in that division in recent years.
My predicition; Brain and Roland are on this and we will see a financial package agreed followed by marching orders for Sam in short order.
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Post by shrewswolf on Nov 22, 2020 23:57:38 GMT 1
The argument on League One vs Two is ridiculous as it’s based entirely on us being a definite ‘yo-yo’ club, but I’m quite young and it seemed to take a fliping age to see my first promotion at that level. It’s not a given. And it’s for that reason we cannot risk going down without a fight.
Early season I felt sorry for Ricketts. Last season I didn’t. Sadly the promise of those opening weeks is fading away with each game now & we are making all the hallmark errors of a team that will go down, being adrift already is extremely worrying given our record in 2020.
I’m concerned about the financial implications behind the move, the whole pandemic too, but the board didn’t seem so bothered when we signed many players this summer with no saleable value. Maybe they need to take one more risk? We need fans back in big numbers when they can and I think Ricketts will need to go for that to happen.
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Post by welshshrew on Nov 22, 2020 23:57:51 GMT 1
Our financial profitability is independent of what league we are in - in fact we are probably more financially healthy in League 2, regardless of what we might read from the amateur accountants on here.
If you want Sam Ricketts out, then it is because you are desperate to play League 1 football next season, let's be clear about it. Or because you are conditioned to want your manager sacked when you have a bad run of results. Just like you did with Jimmy Quinn, Gary Peters, Paul Simpson, Graham Turner, Mike Jackson, Micky Mellon and John Askey.
I still imagine Roland and his fellow tie pin wearing chum Briand Caldwell, still feel we can get to the Championship in two years, so I expect Sam to move on fairly shortly.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 0:09:47 GMT 1
good old hurst, still made us money after he left us, we should be so gratful to him for buying our 2 best players a week before the season started
west ham v shrewsbury £10. x 39,000
compare to 2 game you say
stoke v shrewsbury £15 x 10,000 wolves v shrewsbury £20 x 28,000
hmmm
cant be arsed to check any more of the fake news out
bottom line, you want ricketts out, youve written a fictional novel to back up your opinion ;-)
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 23, 2020 0:34:36 GMT 1
Our financial profitability is independent of what league we are in - in fact we are probably more financially healthy in League 2, regardless of what we might read from the amateur accountants on here. I think we've establishrd that; if you look at my post I've pointed out the biggest money spinners we've seen in recent years have been our trips to Wembley and player sales. Sam doesn't look like achieving either of those things does he? As for the second part of your statement, where's your evidence for that? Our last season in league 2, a promotion one at that, saw us turnover about 2/3 what we achieved in a high performing league one season or a fairly bog standard one with a cup run. We've also more than doubled our admin costs since then and seen cost of sales also go up significantly; this will be our 5th year out of league 2. We're not the same club we were 5 years ago. Given people are under contract and there's generally a timelag to offloading players and reducing offfield headcount it's not unreasonable to suggest that in the short term a poor showing in league 2 could be disastrous financially if we're already seeing cash reserves depleted this season. Genuinely, I'm really happy to be put right if I'm wrong (ultimately I'm just double screening in front of the telly, i may well have missed something) but it'd be nice to see someone actually put together a counter argument rather than just waving it off like Donald Trump looking at a newspaper. And the bottom line, of course I'm desperate to see us survive. The club's finances are just a means to an end to try to succeed on the pitch. I genuinely can't see how people have arfued themselves into this corner of not caring ifcwe get relegated but then this is also an era where nobody likes to admit they're wrong and millions of people think Bill gates wants to microchip them through a vaccine. Strange times indeed.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 1:03:09 GMT 1
fairly bog standard season. =. 2nd highest league position for 30 years and taking the world champions to an fa cup 4th round replay
yep fairly bog standard that
my bog standard for shrewsbury is a choice between just staying up in league 1, or a play off push in league 2 and a first round fa cup exit against a s**t side
thats bog standard in my eyes
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Post by theNOTORIOUSfbs on Nov 23, 2020 1:09:43 GMT 1
If he survives the evening Shropshire Star. today..
then he's with you till Christmas, the January transfer window etc
I bet he's sweating like Fred West looking out of the window and seeing a Ground Force TV crew park outside.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 1:14:02 GMT 1
If he survives the evening Shropshire Star. today.. then he's with you till Christmas, the January transfer window etc I bet he's sweating like Fred West looking out of the window and seeing a Ground Force TV crew park outside. thats not funny ok it was i'll pretend im offended just to be PC ;-)
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Post by theNOTORIOUSfbs on Nov 23, 2020 1:26:18 GMT 1
Can you change sweating to nervous?
He'll be concerned.
The speculation in the media. A question about his position. 'That's not for me to answer'..
We've heard that one before...
Under pressure.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Nov 23, 2020 9:24:02 GMT 1
I'm convinced relegation would cost us 1000 minimum off the gate without doubt due to the situation, people's personal situations and a drop to league two on top with people think we're going backwards. Start the season badly and it could be nearer 2000 off the gate. Even at the worst case scenario we wont lose anything off the gate that we have had for this season. In fact if we only get around 4,000 that is a 4,000 increase on what we are currently getting. Maybe pedantic, but dont forget the club have had virtually nothing in gate receipts since last March, with plenty of players and staff to pay. I dread to think what the balance sheet will look like for this year already.
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Post by neilsalop on Nov 23, 2020 9:41:51 GMT 1
I was on the fence, but changed my vote for him to go. Now I'm back on the fence.
I think the last few weeks have seen something of an improvement, not enough for me to say he should stay, but enough to think maybe he could do with another few weeks and see if he can build on it.
In all competitions this month we have scored 11 goals with 2 games still to play, throughout September and October we only scored 12. That is an improvement in anyone's eyes. The goals against column is still not good enough, but to play one of the better clubs in the league in Ipswich and only lose due to a couple of lapses isn't too bad IMO.
If we can get a decent performance and preferably a clean sheet and a result against MK and then get past Oxford City and potentially a decent draw in round 3 I would hope that some would see that as a sign of further improvement.
Come January Goss and Love will hopefully be welcomed back into the first team fold and we can lose a couple of the underachievers from the league squad. That will be like getting two new signings without spending a penny.
Like I said I'm on the fence and am yet to be convinced that Ricketts is the right man. If we are still in trouble by the middle of next month and out of the FA cup then I will probably change my mind again.
No offence, but that's quite a low bar In the league, which is what I think matters, we've scored 10 goals in 11 games. That's 0.91 goals per game last season we scored 31 in 34, which is 0.91 goals per game In his first season under him we scored 28 in 26, 1.08 goals per game. We've become less potent with his own players than the ones he was left with. In total, its 69 goals in 71 games . 0.97 goals per game. That's the thing with statistics, you can read them in so many different ways.
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Post by Exkeeper on Nov 23, 2020 11:05:14 GMT 1
good old hurst, still made us money after he left us, we should be so gratful to him for buying our 2 best players a week before the season started west ham v shrewsbury £10. x 39,000 compare to 2 game you say stoke v shrewsbury £15 x 10,000 wolves v shrewsbury £20 x 28,000 hmmm cant be arsed to check any more of the fake news out bottom line, you want ricketts out, youve written a fictional novel to back up your opinion ;-) Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 11:16:35 GMT 1
good old hurst, still made us money after he left us, we should be so gratful to him for buying our 2 best players a week before the season started west ham v shrewsbury £10. x 39,000 compare to 2 game you say stoke v shrewsbury £15 x 10,000 wolves v shrewsbury £20 x 28,000 hmmm cant be arsed to check any more of the fake news out bottom line, you want ricketts out, youve written a fictional novel to back up your opinion ;-) Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it. quite a valid point he was a bit of a nick leeson really
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 11:26:00 GMT 1
Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it.
I've read a lot of nonsense about Hurst in terms of THAT season but I think claiming he lost us money by missing out of on promotion is one of the funniest things I've ever read.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 11:40:02 GMT 1
Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it.
I've read a lot of nonsense about Hurst in terms of THAT season but I think claiming he lost us money by missing out of on promotion is one of the funniest things I've ever read.
if it happens no one will mention the cost of losing next sunday will they ? no one will blame ricketts if we lose the last game and get relegated on the back of it
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Post by camdenshrew on Nov 23, 2020 11:41:43 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 23, 2020 11:50:24 GMT 1
good old hurst, still made us money after he left us, we should be so gratful to him for buying our 2 best players a week before the season started west ham v shrewsbury £10. x 39,000 compare to 2 game you say stoke v shrewsbury £15 x 10,000 wolves v shrewsbury £20 x 28,000 hmmm cant be arsed to check any more of the fake news out bottom line, you want ricketts out, youve written a fictional novel to back up your opinion ;-) Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it. To clarify, the Hurst team made us a gross margin of £1.4m in 17/18, and an overall profit of £0.3m when adjusted for admin expenditure. Crucially though, the sale of Nolan and Nsiala generated a shade under £4m in profit on sale of players. As I described above, we were still owed around £2.6m of that money at the start of the 19/20 season. To spell it out for those of you still not really getting this, we are still dining out off that Paul Hurst season. The cash received from second instalments of those transfer fees will likely offset our operating loss for 19/20, which is quite possibly severe. We would be in a lot more trouble had it not happened. Shame to miss out on the money for getting promoted and doubtlessly Paul had his head turned which contributed to a disappointing day at Wembley but let's not a) ignore what he did achieve for us and b) pretend that £8m was all money in the bank. How much would player salaries have had to go up to try to make us vaguely competitive? Promotion clauses in existing contracts? A single transfer fee and budgeting for wages at that level could have wiped out any benefit from the additional money. No way our average gate even in the championship would make us anything other than relegation fodder or heavily loss making.
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Nov 23, 2020 11:54:08 GMT 1
If he survives the evening Shropshire Star. today.. then he's with you till Christmas, the January transfer window etc I bet he's sweating like Fred West looking out of the window and seeing a Ground Force TV crew park outside. Love this last line - quality 😂👍👌
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 12:00:23 GMT 1
Shame to miss out on the money for getting promoted and doubtlessly Paul had his head turned which contributed to a disappointing day at Wembley but let's not a) ignore what he did achieve for us and b) pretend that £8m was all money in the bank. How much would player salaries have had to go up to try to make us vaguely competitive? Promotion clauses in existing contracts? A single transfer fee and budgeting for wages at that level could have wiped out any benefit from the additional money. No way our average gate even in the championship would make us anything other than relegation fodder or heavily loss making. phew, lucky we didnt go up then, perhaps relegation is great based on that argument
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Post by blamber on Nov 23, 2020 13:34:33 GMT 1
fairly bog standard season. =. 2nd highest league position for 30 years and taking the world champions to an fa cup 4th round replay yep fairly bog standard that my bog standard for shrewsbury is a choice between just staying up in league 1, or a play off push in league 2 and a first round fa cup exit against a s**t side thats bog standard in my eyes And the best league position for 30 years? That's right - the Paul Hurst season. How you must have hated that year of Town winning more games than we lost and sitting near the top of the league all season, under a manager that did nothing right and - perhaps most annoyingly - trashed your own unswerving proclamation that we are, at best, just a struggling league one club. So, perhaps not bog standard enough in your eyes and an uncomfortable fit with your lowly view of STFC's capabilities as a club. Ambition? Perish the thought. The Ricketts era is much more like it ;-) For what it's worth, I didn't much care for the way Hurst handled his departure either, nor the way he treated the Town supporters at Wembley. But most people are objective enough to appreciate what he was good at, how we became a difficult team to beat (even when he first over), our team spirit and what we can achieve as a football club. To suggest that Paul Hurst was useless at everything is just not credible and no one particularly likes their posts being belittled simply by having a positive view about him.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 23, 2020 14:16:13 GMT 1
i agree with evrything in the article.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Nov 23, 2020 14:42:45 GMT 1
Think I would be concerned if they turned to Edwards full time right now. We need someone in there with experience of difficult times and how to turn things round. Edwards as caretaker yes, Edward as No2 to the new man yes, Edwards as a future manager yes. But the position we are in right now isn't for a rookie manager. Anyone on here remember that Turner bloke we had as player manager in the '70s? Pretty sure he had no managerial experience either. over a side that was already moulding itself into something good ?, also having been at the Club for 5 Seasons already, was well versed in the running of STFC on and off the field ?
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 15:18:07 GMT 1
Hurst made us money? On the face of it, yes. Match income aside, we will have received a compensation payment from Ipswich for poaching him plus a couple of million quid from the same source for poaching two of our better players. All fine and dandy. What is being overlooked though is that promotion to the Championship is reportedly worth £8million so, if he had remained focused on our team we would surely have managed the extra ten points from what turned out to be a disastrous run in. We could therefore say that he lost us money - a lot of it. To clarify, the Hurst team made us a gross margin of £1.4m in 17/18, and an overall profit of £0.3m when adjusted for admin expenditure. Crucially though, the sale of Nolan and Nsiala generated a shade under £4m in profit on sale of players. As I described above, we were still owed around £2.6m of that money at the start of the 19/20 season. To spell it out for those of you still not really getting this, we are still dining out off that Paul Hurst season. The cash received from second instalments of those transfer fees will likely offset our operating loss for 19/20, which is quite possibly severe. We would be in a lot more trouble had it not happened. Shame to miss out on the money for getting promoted and doubtlessly Paul had his head turned which contributed to a disappointing day at Wembley but let's not a) ignore what he did achieve for us and b) pretend that £8m was all money in the bank. How much would player salaries have had to go up to try to make us vaguely competitive? Promotion clauses in existing contracts? A single transfer fee and budgeting for wages at that level could have wiped out any benefit from the additional money. No way our average gate even in the championship would make us anything other than relegation fodder or heavily loss making. can you do one for hurst at ipswich next ?
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Nov 23, 2020 15:39:28 GMT 1
fairly bog standard season. =. 2nd highest league position for 30 years and taking the world champions to an fa cup 4th round replay yep fairly bog standard that my bog standard for shrewsbury is a choice between just staying up in league 1, or a play off push in league 2 and a first round fa cup exit against a s**t side thats bog standard in my eyes And the best league position for 30 years? That's right - the Paul Hurst season. How you must have hated that year of Town winning more games than we lost and sitting near the top of the league all season, under a manager that did nothing right and - perhaps most annoyingly - trashed your own unswerving proclamation that we are, at best, just a struggling league one club. So, perhaps not bog standard enough in your eyes and an uncomfortable fit with your lowly view of STFC's capabilities as a club. Ambition? Perish the thought. The Ricketts era is much more like it ;-) For what it's worth, I didn't much care for the way Hurst handled his departure either, nor the way he treated the Town supporters at Wembley. But most people are objective enough to appreciate what he was good at, how we became a difficult team to beat (even when he first over), our team spirit and what we can achieve as a football club. To suggest that Paul Hurst was useless at everything is just not credible and no one particularly likes their posts being belittled simply by having a positive view about him. Also worth remembering for context that if Dooble78 was appointed manager tomorrow they'd achieve a top ten finish in the best league positions of the last 30 years by default, and much like Ricketts wouldn't have the credit of a prior promotion in the bank.
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 23, 2020 15:57:52 GMT 1
You can't harp on about having nearly £3m cash and being well run then cry because you have to use a percentage of it during a once in a lifetime global pandemic.
Roland - Act now or you'll regret it otherwise. Lots of fans have had their fair share of the 4th tier and are sick of it. Time to deliver on your supposed ambition you have.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 23, 2020 16:01:25 GMT 1
And surely eventually the Premier League will cough up the money needed to support the Clubs in Division 1.
Though true to form they are still dragging their feet on this issue.
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