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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 26, 2016 23:38:01 GMT 1
Talking like he's already prime minister. Yet another example of a leave campaigner promising things they're in no position to give. Whether or not free trade continues or UK students can study at local rates in other European states is not up to BoJo, the UK or the German equivalent of the CBI. It's down to the politicians who will look to quell dissent in the ranks by coming down like a tonne of bricks on the UK.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 26, 2016 23:40:17 GMT 1
If anyone could endure trawling through this character's past posts (I know, I know, three lifetimes would be too short for spending time on that), you'd find corrections of other people's spelling & grammar. I wouldn't bother doing it but I love how uppity they get when the mirror's held up to them. Hmmm,so you must have trawled through my posts to find said corrections? Very very creepy. you sound a strange kind of person with an obviuosly exciting lifestyle (not) to have time to go through people's posts... I don't, and certainly wouldn't waste a second on yours, but I do have a memory. Obviously.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 26, 2016 23:46:19 GMT 1
Yes, however you read that, those aren't the words of someone planning to invoke Article 50. The more rational Leave campaigners (the non-Faragists) know they can't meet the expectations of hardcore Leave voters. Bridges are being built.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 9:33:09 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 27, 2016 9:52:42 GMT 1
He voted leave. He was asked to pen why. He put this together (and he suggests hurriedly). He is providing the reasons why he decided to vote leave. He did so because he believes the EU is flawed. He then went on to explain how. If you can disprove anything that he has said or has referenced then by all means explain where and how and we can then talk about being dishonest. Is anything he has included or referenced incorrect? I think you need to consider the focus of this article. The reason why he penned it. Most people when explaining why they voted one way or the other will most certainly focus exclusively on those reasons. And I disagree with this 'Nobody has denied that he EU isn't flawed'. There are people I speak to who think the EU can do no wrong. It would seem to me that many people aren't fully aware on how the EU functions. And I think that the EU very much counts on that. There is absolutely no harm in pointing out it's flaws and any fallacies surrounding it. No harm in more people being aware of such things. I find it unusual that a self proclaimed Socialist ignores the benefits that the EU has brought to millions of workers. He voted leave and was asked to explain his reasons why he did so. That is why he didn't mention the benefits that the EU brings. Because quite clearly they are not reasons to leave it. Which he was asked to give. Which he did.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 10:36:02 GMT 1
Mr Darling said: "We got no government, we have got no opposition, the people who got us into this mess have run away - they have gone to ground."
That about sums it up for me. We appear to be up the creek with noone even to wield a paddle
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Post by percy on Jun 27, 2016 11:21:45 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ?
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Post by lenny on Jun 27, 2016 13:16:28 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ? What's your reaction to the result owd lad? No big brother/BoJO flip-flop. While the markets/FX turmoil was expected in the short run, are your company one of those having a little panic? That whole petition is a load of rubbish, though, and I say that as someone disappointed in the outcome. Surprised it's still newsworthy.
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Post by champagneprince on Jun 27, 2016 14:19:37 GMT 1
It will never happen. If it does, then you may as well say that democracy is dead.
The MP for Tottenham was on earlier shouting about how it was only an 'advisory referendum' and that Government is 'Sovereign' and can choose not to leave if it doesn't want to! He may well be right in theory, but the impact of that would be disastrous on a scale that is dangerous and way beyond any economical problems we currently have. If MP's have opinions like that then they should be really kicked out of government for being completely detached from the people and I hope somebody kicks his arse as soon as possible,
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Post by percy on Jun 27, 2016 15:22:46 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ? What's your reaction to the result owd lad? No big brother/BoJO flip-flop. While the markets/FX turmoil was expected in the short run, are your company one of those having a little panic? That whole petition is a load of rubbish, though, and I say that as someone disappointed in the outcome. Surprised it's still newsworthy. I am truly amazed by the result. "How could they let it happen" - is the phrase here at the moment and the hope that the EU will now reform and cut back some of its excesses so we actually end up staying.
End of the month is coming too quickly for some - many of the traders were stacked high on the remain side; the clever ones the bet that the UK would outperform Europe (this was predicted whichever way the result went and is showing a very good profit at the moment).
All our scenarios showed the UK doing better than the EU - let's see what happens. I wouldn't invest on the DAX or CAC now - Deutsche Bank shares are the one to watch for how the EU is really doing (ignore the rhetoric).
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 27, 2016 15:44:51 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ? Sounds more like the unfair rules that the Tory's impose on unions in their ballots.....
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 27, 2016 15:52:39 GMT 1
What's your reaction to the result owd lad? No big brother/BoJO flip-flop. While the markets/FX turmoil was expected in the short run, are your company one of those having a little panic? That whole petition is a load of rubbish, though, and I say that as someone disappointed in the outcome. Surprised it's still newsworthy. I am truly amazed by the result. "How could they let it happen" - is the phrase here at the moment and the hope that the EU will now reform and cut back some of its excesses so we actually end up staying.
End of the month is coming too quickly for some - many of the traders were stacked high on the remain side; the clever ones the bet that the UK would outperform Europe (this was predicted whichever way the result went and is showing a very good profit at the moment).
All our scenarios showed the UK doing better than the EU - let's see what happens. I wouldn't invest on the DAX or CAC now - Deutsche Bank shares are the one to watch for how the EU is really doing (ignore the rhetoric).
But does the referendum vote allow us to stay if the EU changes? I doubt it. This is the danger, that there's a back lash from other EU countries and to avoid a complete melt down changes are made especially round free movement of labour, the EU becomes a much better place and were out with Scotland and N Ireland going for independence and were left on our own... Unless off course we have a referendum for England to leave the UK, get in first and remain in the EU.... If Scotland can do it why can't we?
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Post by percy on Jun 27, 2016 16:01:11 GMT 1
Poor BoJo - look at the panic in his eyes - I remain convinced that if the polls had shown Leave winning before the big day he would have turned and Dave would have given him Home Secretary and the chance to slug it out with Osbourne.
Referendums on the death penalty and foreign aid now - much easier to predict the way that they will go.
Funny thing democracy.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jun 27, 2016 16:44:41 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ? Ermmm. bluntly...NO it is NOT the law.
I like the latest petition meself, the bloke wants a run of the Battle of Hastings
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 17:01:20 GMT 1
The petition for a re-run of the referendum that the guy in Telford set up - is it the law that a re-run can be required if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority obtains less than 60% of the vote ? Apparently the bloke who set it up is a Leave campaigner and it was set up back in May when it looked like it might be a close result with Remain winning. Not surprisingly he isn't too happy with the way the petition has panned out. But equally there wasn't much interest in it until the result came in. Appreciate overall it's not a laughing matter but there's been some priceless stories in the whole episode.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 18:17:00 GMT 1
I find it unusual that a self proclaimed Socialist ignores the benefits that the EU has brought to millions of workers. He voted leave and was asked to explain his reasons why he did so. That is why he didn't mention the benefits that the EU brings. Because quite clearly they are not reasons to leave it. Which he was asked to give. Which he did. Selective qouting. Anyway look the two links I posted give a more balanced view and some of the mechanics of the day to day running of the politics side of it. Not a one eyed view.
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tosalop
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Post by tosalop on Jun 27, 2016 18:32:14 GMT 1
House of Commons session this afternoon confirms, as many knew, that the chances of a 2nd referendum are zero.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 27, 2016 19:22:15 GMT 1
I see the Remain desperadoes have decided to bring out the Branson. Good Richard of The Virgin Islands, wants another referendum. He should have made his announcement in a pub in Boston, Lincolnshire.
I'll wait outside for you, Richard, I'd imagine you'll be out shortly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 0:14:05 GMT 1
What odds that the government do not invoke article 50 ?
As it stands nothing has changed it was only a referendum and there is nothing legally binding. As Angela Merkel said nothing has changed until we we invoke Article 50 and Cameron, who is the reason the referendum happened in the first place, hasn't the balls to do it! The government will try and find some excuse not too!
What advantage is gained by delaying until October ?
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Post by Bordershrew on Jun 28, 2016 0:27:16 GMT 1
Over 3 months extra negotiating time I'd guess, they press the button now and we'll be waiting until the new cabinet is in place before we can start talking.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 28, 2016 7:08:10 GMT 1
He voted leave and was asked to explain his reasons why he did so. That is why he didn't mention the benefits that the EU brings. Because quite clearly they are not reasons to leave it. Which he was asked to give. Which he did. Selective qouting. As in giving his reasons why he voted leave and not remain. Make sense considering what he was asked to do. Will get around to reading the other stuff when I can...
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 28, 2016 7:45:48 GMT 1
What odds that the government do not invoke article 50 ? As it stands nothing has changed it was only a referendum and there is nothing legally binding. As Angela Merkel said nothing has changed until we we invoke Article 50 and Cameron, who is the reason the referendum happened in the first place, hasn't the balls to do it! The government will try and find some excuse not too! What advantage is gained by delaying until October ?
I think the technical term is "giving 'em enough rope".
We're only three days in so far and we've seen continued market turmoil, a crash in the value of Sterling, Calais have started griping about the Le Touquet agreement, numerous rumblings around businesses leaving the UK, a huge increase in hate crime and racial abuse and England have just crashed humiliatingly out of the Euros to the smallest nation in the tournament thanks in no small part to the collective will of the entire rest of Europe.
Imagine how bad it will be by October.
My guess is that Boris will come back with another 'deal' (which will no doubt be significantly worse than what DC achieved and which we may or may not be asked to vote on) and call on his pals at News International to help him spin it as a victory.
Really can't see us invoking article 50 at this point. Despite what people seem to think about UK 'democracy', the referendum result doesn't oblige the government to do anything. The UK is and always has been a representative democracy as opposed to a participatory one. You elect a representative to parliament who you think will best act on your interests and er.... that's it. They do all the voting for you (then a completely unelected bunch of aristocrats tweeks the laws a bit to suit their interests before they pass). Why anyone thinks that will automatically change because 37% of people voted for something is beyond me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 9:08:34 GMT 1
What odds that the government do not invoke article 50 ? As it stands nothing has changed it was only a referendum and there is nothing legally binding. As Angela Merkel said nothing has changed until we we invoke Article 50 and Cameron, who is the reason the referendum happened in the first place, hasn't the balls to do it! The government will try and find some excuse not too! What advantage is gained by delaying until October ?
I think the technical term is "giving 'em enough rope".
We're only three days in so far and we've seen continued market turmoil, a crash in the value of Sterling, Calais have started griping about the Le Touquet agreement, numerous rumblings around businesses leaving the UK, a huge increase in hate crime and racial abuse and England have just crashed humiliatingly out of the Euros to the smallest nation in the tournament thanks in no small part to the collective will of the entire rest of Europe.
Imagine how bad it will be by October.
My guess is that Boris will come back with another 'deal' (which will no doubt be significantly worse than what DC achieved and which we may or may not be asked to vote on) and call on his pals at News International to help him spin it as a victory.
Really can't see us invoking article 50 at this point. Despite what people seem to think about UK 'democracy', the referendum result doesn't oblige the government to do anything. The UK is and always has been a representative democracy as opposed to a participatory one. You elect a representative to parliament who you think will best act on your interests and er.... that's it. They do all the voting for you (then a completely unelected bunch of aristocrats tweeks the laws a bit to suit their interests before they pass). Why anyone thinks that will automatically change because 37% of people voted for something is beyond me.
I don't buy the argument that the remain want to see the uk in the doldrums just to try and make a point, it is our country where we live after all. Correcting myself on my earlier post, it is not down to Cameron to do so, it has to be parliament decision. What is good is that the EU have to accept we will do it when it suits us and not the EU. Good thing happening from the fallout in my opinion is Corbyn on his way out, british politics requires a strong and effective opposition party! www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/cameron-decision-on-brexit-timing-will-be-for-britain-alone%e2%80%8b%e2%80%8b-to-take/ar-AAhFZPb?ocid=spartandhp
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 28, 2016 11:58:06 GMT 1
Missing the point a bit there, Fred.
Remain's argument is that the UK needs to stay in the EU to prevent long term economic damage. If a short term shock is the best way to deliver that (and, conversely, a boom later in the year if we decide not to leave) then delaying the decision is the best way to achieve that aim, nothing to do with 'making a point'.
Besides, the leave campaign was hijacked for the purposes of a Tory leadership coup by people who apparently have no interest in actually following through on their promise as they never expected leave to win. The delay suits them as much as it does remain.
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Post by mattmw on Jun 28, 2016 13:34:14 GMT 1
Just back from a week at Glastonbury...anything been happening?
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 28, 2016 14:15:06 GMT 1
Just back from a week at Glastonbury...anything been happening? I've been away for a few days too, but the good news is that England qualified from their group and have the easiest game possible against the no hopers of Iceland and are guaranteed a last 8 game.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 28, 2016 16:37:47 GMT 1
I see Jamie Oliver has threatened to quit Britain WHEN we leave the EU. I want another referendum now. That news should put another 5 million on the Leave side, not having to listen to that prick telling us how to toss a salad.
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Post by onthepitch on Jun 28, 2016 17:14:52 GMT 1
I see Jamie Oliver has threatened to quit Britain WHEN we leave the EU. I want another referendum now. That news should put another 5 million on the Leave side, not having to listen to that prick telling us how to toss a salad. or that telling us how to prick sausages?!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 7:55:38 GMT 1
I find it unusual that a self proclaimed Socialist ignores the benefits that the EU has brought to millions of workers. He voted leave and was asked to explain his reasons why he did so. That is why he didn't mention the benefits that the EU brings. Because quite clearly they are not reasons to leave it. Which he was asked to give. Which he did. Yes, yes, yes, I know. But, you know you posted the link and invited people to read it over their morning coffee, which I did. I then offered a critique, which is what we do in a 'democratic' society.
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Post by Mr Cornflakes on Jun 29, 2016 12:20:05 GMT 1
I see the Remain desperadoes have decided to bring out the Branson. Good Richard of The Virgin Islands, wants another referendum. He should have made his announcement in a pub in Boston, Lincolnshire.
I'll wait outside for you, Richard, I'd imagine you'll be out shortly. It's Virgin on the ridiculous.
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