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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:08:44 GMT 1
I blame the weather to be honest .We didn't have any really hard frosts this Winter to kill enough of the old f.ckers off. Personally I wouldn't allow the old t**ts a vote unless they could prove that they hadn't s**t themselves within the past month .
You're not wrong, severen, you don't mind me calling you severen do you? Any silly owd barsteward who insists on voting, should have their arse felt by stewards to test for Kanga incontinence pads, and if they find any evidence of the owd ******s wearing them, they should be disqualified from voting in the referendum.
They'd s**t themselves.
Don't mind you calling me severen at all jt . In fact I rather like it . Never mind my sick sense of humour , I'm still bloody pig sick over the result . What I can't understand is that Wales voted to leave . Every time I go into North Wales I see projects being undertaken funded in part by EU monies . I ' m told Wales gets a very good deal from the EU all in all . Whatever , what's done is done , I just hope that my grandchildren don't suffer as they grow older as a result . At least TNS are still in Europe .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:53:28 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? They want to be part of the EU full stop, which is more democratic than the UK thanks to PR. Just ask Nigel Farage how many MEPs his party has as a result of this.!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:09:22 GMT 1
I see there's a petition doing the rounds at the moment demanding another referendum. Unless there's 75% turnout and a 60% winning percentage the vote shouldn't count. 800,000 have signed it so far.
Why wasn't this petition created a few weeks back I wonder?
It's been said a lot recently, but it is what it is. Exit won the vote and it's not going to change no matter how much people stamp their feet and sulk. It's time to accept the inevitable and get on with planning for the future.
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Post by MartinB on Jun 25, 2016 12:25:43 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? They want to be part of the EU full stop, which is more democratic than the UK thanks to PR. Just ask Nigel Farage how many MEPs his party has as a result of this.!!! but their complaint is other people passing laws on them
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:28:03 GMT 1
The referendum is not legally binding. There is nothing to stop MP's not accepting it and voting it down. The Remains have a majority in the House of Commons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 12:33:25 GMT 1
They want to be part of the EU full stop, which is more democratic than the UK thanks to PR. Just ask Nigel Farage how many MEPs his party has as a result of this.!!! but their complaint is other people passing laws on them The Scots would have a vote just like everyone else. It's called democracy. The same as the UK had a vote in the EU previously and we voted against 44 times out of 3000. We now have no vote and whatever happens we will still be at the mercy of many EU rules and regulations.
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Post by shrewder on Jun 25, 2016 12:54:07 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:04:29 GMT 1
We were briefed at work yesterday that we stand to lose 40% of our funding. The few, very few, colleagues that voted to leave suddenly realised the consequences of their actions. When will the funding stop? And will that shortfall be covered by the UK itself in time? Will that be negotiated? I totally understand that of course if the UK were to leave the EU then funding direct from the EU will stop. But does that also means that the funding will simply stop and will not become available from within the UK itself? Was that discussed? There are two streams of European Social Fund (ESF) money. The 'matched' funding which we get all the time and the ESF money for Skills Academies. The latter is for the long term unemployed to help them get the skills to get back to work. See up thread what happened when we lost the skills ESF. However, we have a new batch of ESF for skills coming in September. This is safe as it's already allocated, but when it finishes in 2 years that will be it. This won't effect us as a business. However, the loss of 'matched' funding will finish us. It's due to finish in 2020, we don't know who will make up the short fall (business or government) and we don't know how it will be negotiated. So, that's a lot of don't knows, but the only thing we know for sure is that we stand to lose 40% of our funding. The total fund is worth 3.7 billion quid. Now I'm lucky. I have a pension and am mortgage free, but my colleagues aren't so lucky. Frankly they really don't give much of a t0ss right now for pipe dreams, ifs, buts and maybes. And there you go, people voted to leave on a wing and a prayer.
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Post by MartinB on Jun 25, 2016 13:10:07 GMT 1
The referendum is not legally binding. There is nothing to stop MP's not accepting it and voting it down. The Remains have a majority in the House of Commons. Not legally binding but any politians voting in the commons against leaving would become unelectable
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:45:35 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? Works both ways I guess. The British (English) surely can't complain about Scotland wanting its independence when that's exactly what the British have just voted for in this referendum?
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Post by MartinB on Jun 25, 2016 13:51:53 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? Works both ways I guess. The British (English) surely can't complain about Scotland wanting its independence when that's exactly what the British have just voted for in this referendum? More than happy for the Scots to leave providing we don't have to subsidise them
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:43:49 GMT 1
Never mind , were out and that's it . I am now looking forward to aTory government lead by Boris and Gove . It's what Johnson wanted all along and his side kick Gove who ****ed up every government post he's been in is now back in a position of where he sees a rosy future for himself . There are strong feelings within the Tory government , those that wished to remain within the EU that is , to scupper Boris's plans . A number are said to be furious that his actions led to Cameron resigning which was all part of Boris's plan . Corbyn may be under pressure but certainly they'll be blood letting in the Tory group .
Just to add , those that voted out in the belief that immigration will now be sorted and we will be looking to allow no more than 10,000 in per year had better think again . The Brexit lot are now backtracking furiously as indeed they are on the question of NHS funding . All that money taken back and used to improve our NHS . Don't think so , just ask Suzanne Evans for a start .
The Country has been taken for a ride and those daft enough to believe Johnson , Gove and Farage should take time out to reflect . What's that I hear , they didn't tell us that . Of course they didn't . It was never about what's best for the Country , it was all about what's best for them.
Battern down the hatches , there's a s**t storm brewing .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:54:18 GMT 1
The referendum is not legally binding. There is nothing to stop MP's not accepting it and voting it down. The Remains have a majority in the House of Commons. Not legally binding but any politians voting in the commons against leaving would become unelectable Not necessarily.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:08:26 GMT 1
Works both ways I guess. The British (English) surely can't complain about Scotland wanting its independence when that's exactly what the British have just voted for in this referendum? More than happy for the Scots to leave providing we don't have to subsidise them Not all about you buddy!
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Post by venceremos on Jun 25, 2016 15:23:40 GMT 1
Like it or not, there was one factor and one factor alone which won Leave the vote. Immigration. Nobody in the Remain camp could counteract freedom of movement questions. So from Cameron and Corbyn down they ducked the issue and tried to drag the questioner round to the economy/workers rights etc. The Leave voters saw through this ploy. It was hardly a ploy to be seen through if you believed the economic well being of the country was at risk of being jeopardised. I agree that immigration was the factor that won the vote for Leave. Their ploy was to link it cynically to the EU, knowing many of their target voters wouldn't make the distinction between EU and non-EU immigration. It was dishonest and it won them the referendum.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 25, 2016 15:37:26 GMT 1
To be fair to Gove, Johnson and IDS they did not promise to reduce immigration in any of the interviews I heard, they simply said that they would 'control' it.
When pressed they refused to put a number the the volume of immigration they would allow (they knew they couldn't with non EU immigration double the Government target) and just insisted on 'control' and 'allowing in the people we want'. Of course 'the people we want' could just as easily be Romanian farm labourers as German engineers.
I've just listened again to the BBC Radio 4 programme 'More or Less'. There's an interview with someone described as the economist for the Brexit campaign, he said immigration would not reduce.
He also said that the economy would benefit in the long term, but would suffer in the short term. His definition of this period was a year before we exit and 2 years afterwards. Given that the exit negotiations could take 2 years + and we will not give notice of leaving until there's a new PM, that's up to 5 years of downturn which some people may find disappointing.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 25, 2016 15:41:25 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? The assumption is that all regulation originating in Brussels is bad, maybe the Scots have looked at it and decided that there's nothing they'd object to?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 25, 2016 15:56:00 GMT 1
When will the funding stop? And will that shortfall be covered by the UK itself in time? Will that be negotiated? I totally understand that of course if the UK were to leave the EU then funding direct from the EU will stop. But does that also means that the funding will simply stop and will not become available from within the UK itself? Was that discussed? There are two streams of European Social Fund (ESF) money. The 'matched' funding which we get all the time and the ESF money for Skills Academies. The latter is for the long term unemployed to help them get the skills to get back to work. See up thread what happened when we lost the skills ESF. However, we have a new batch of ESF for skills coming in September. This is safe as it's already allocated, but when it finishes in 2 years that will be it. This won't effect us as a business. However, the loss of 'matched' funding will finish us. It's due to finish in 2020, we don't know who will make up the short fall (business or government) and we don't know how it will be negotiated. So, that's a lot of don't knows, but the only thing we know for sure is that we stand to lose 40% of our funding. The total fund is worth 3.7 billion quid. Now I'm lucky. I have a pension and am mortgage free, but my colleagues aren't so lucky. Frankly they really don't give much of a t0ss right now for pipe dreams, ifs, buts and maybes. And there you go, people voted to leave on a wing and a prayer. Lets hope the the money that was allocated to the EU will now be used to fund such things directly from the UK government. Whether that will happen though of course is anyone's guess. I read in the Independent that the Cornish are now also looking for reassurance that the money they now get from the EU will be forthcoming from the UK government when the UK does finally part from the EU. I suspect many others will be looking to do the same in the coming months.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 25, 2016 15:57:06 GMT 1
I actually listened to younger people and voted in the way that the majority of them wanted. I certainly would have voted remain anyway. I will not be around to witness the unholy mess that we will be left with. Many of those who voted "leave" were voting that way for reasons which have very little to do with the EU and they were persuaded by lies (already admitted by some of the Brexit leaders), became blinkered and could not be convinced otherwise. It's a dilemma for a democracy where all votes count equally. SHort of making certain votes count more than others, which carries a host of other problems, how do you make it fairer? In a general election it doesn't much matter, because the winners and losers can change after 5 years. A constitutional referendum is entirely different because its effects are far more lasting. Of course older people are as entitled to vote as any other generation but I salute particularly those who paid serious consideration to what younger generations said, on either side of the debate. Voting through self-interest is selfish by definition, whatever your age. Voting because you think you know what's for the best is what most of us do. But doing that when a majority of the group most affected by the outcome are saying something else is ....what? Patronising? I'm not sure but it doesn't sit right with me. An honourable abstention is an alternative to voting against your own way of thinking. Easy for me to say, I know, because my vote was the same as the majority of younger voters anyway. I don't think this is an academic point though. We already had a generational split with young people priced out of housing (mortgages and privately rented), having to pay for higher education, struggling to provide for pensions, facing a lifetime of job insecurity and a retirement age (if they can ever afford to retire) receding into their 70s & 80s by the time they get there. When they compare that to the lives of their parents' generation and see how they've been cushioned from austerity in recent years, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone if they're resentful. For that to be compounded by a majority of older voters deciding what's best for the future in the referendum, despite the relative shortness of time it will affect them, will only make that worse. I don't have an answer, but I know if I was my sons' age, I'd have been angry before the vote and a lot angrier now.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 25, 2016 16:01:44 GMT 1
Lets hope the the money that was allocated to the EU will now be used to fund such things directly from the UK government. Whether that will happen though of course is anyone's guess. I read in the Independent that the Cornish are now also looking for reassurance that the money they now get from the EU will be forthcoming from the UK government when the UK does finally part from the EU. I suspect many others will be looking to do the same in the coming months. Yes, despite a majority voting to leave the EU. Wales is in a similar position. I suspect they might find there's a shortfall! They also have to address the difficulty of attracting new investment to their regions if they're now outside the EU. EU membership has been a given for the likes of the Welsh Development Agency - without it and its free market access, they'll be at a disadvantage to other European locations. But presumably they knew that when they voted ...
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Post by shrewder on Jun 25, 2016 16:17:48 GMT 1
I am nearly 67 and voted to stay in. I am thoroughly ashamed of my generation who were one of main factors for the out vote. I have so called friends who were voting out and despite explaining the repercussions, they just blindly voted out. Still it is what it is and we have to live with it.
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Post by supermac11 on Jun 25, 2016 16:27:19 GMT 1
Whilst the division between over 50s and under 24s is stark - I've not seen detailed turnout evidence. If normal voting patterns apply of 18-24s will have been considerably less likely to have voted. If that is the case, then young voters might want to ask some of their peers why the didn't bother.
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Post by shrewder on Jun 25, 2016 16:32:22 GMT 1
Whilst the division between over 50s and under 24s is stark - I've not seen detailed turnout evidence. If normal voting patterns apply of 18-24s will have been considerably less likely to have voted. If that is the case, then young voters might want to ask some of their peers why the didn't bother. Yes that's also a good point.
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Post by Bordershrew on Jun 25, 2016 20:10:38 GMT 1
Can we please give Scotland their freedom so we don't have to listen to the annoying Sturgeon women. Her and Salmonds "once in a lifetime referendum" life expectancy in Scotland must be dreadful. Not a chance they'd vote to leave even if it was held, they know the Barnett formula serves them well and the Oil price won't help her arguments either.
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Post by supermac11 on Jun 25, 2016 20:45:23 GMT 1
Can we please give Scotland their freedom so we don't have to listen to the annoying Sturgeon women. Her and Salmonds "once in a lifetime referendum" life expectancy in Scotland must be dreadful. Not a chance they'd vote to leave even if it was held, they know the Barnett formula serves them well and the Oil price won't help her arguments either. Think you might be surprised then. I fully expect Scotland to be independent within the next few years. The better together campaign was dire enough last time and not sure they've anything left to say. Cameron will go down as the PM who managed to break up the Union and take us out of the EU - not sure that's the legacy he dreamt of last year.
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Post by Bordershrew on Jun 25, 2016 20:49:58 GMT 1
Her and Salmonds "once in a lifetime referendum" life expectancy in Scotland must be dreadful. Not a chance they'd vote to leave even if it was held, they know the Barnett formula serves them well and the Oil price won't help her arguments either. Think you might be surprised then. I fully expect Scotland to be independent within the next few years. The better together campaign was dire enough last time and not sure they've anything left to say. Cameron will go down as the PM who managed to break up the Union and take us out of the EU - not sure that's the legacy he dreamt of last year. I would be astonished, but saying that I live in Shropshire and only rely on what family who live up there tell me! I'd like to think they'd remain part of the Union, but obviously understand why the Sturgeon and co are calling for another referendum given Friday mornings events.
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Post by supermac11 on Jun 25, 2016 20:55:46 GMT 1
Think you might be surprised then. I fully expect Scotland to be independent within the next few years. The better together campaign was dire enough last time and not sure they've anything left to say. Cameron will go down as the PM who managed to break up the Union and take us out of the EU - not sure that's the legacy he dreamt of last year. I would be astonished, but saying that I live in Shropshire and only rely on what family who live up there tell me! I'd like to think they'd remain part of the Union, but obviously understand why the Sturgeon and co are calling for another referendum given Friday mornings events. Economic arguments don't seem to have cut much ice in the EU referendum and I'm not sure Scots are going to listen anymore. Weren't they also told last time that if they wanted to stay in the EU they should vote to keep the status quo & look how that worked out.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 25, 2016 21:22:39 GMT 1
Despite Laurel and Hardy, (aka Dave and Gideon), talking Britain down, countries are already offering us trade deals. America, Canada and Germany are making very positive noises. And if Angela sez so, the of the EU will do as they're told.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 25, 2016 21:57:48 GMT 1
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 25, 2016 21:59:24 GMT 1
Anybody else fund it bizarre that the SNP want independence for Scotland because they don't want the English making laws for them yet the reason for trying again is so they can be a part of the EU where Brussels will make laws for them? ? No stranger than having been told during the independence reference that if they became independent they couldn't be part of the EU and now they are anyway.
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