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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 21, 2016 15:34:21 GMT 1
A month has passed since our last poll, and the vote edges ever closer.
What do people think now?
And if people are clear on what they think could you put the one or two things that have absolutely swung it for you?
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Post by kuffdam72 on Apr 21, 2016 15:55:20 GMT 1
Out out out!
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Post by shrewder on Apr 21, 2016 16:11:07 GMT 1
In in in
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Post by venceremos on Apr 21, 2016 16:14:36 GMT 1
How many people predicted the credit crunch and global depression? And yet so many people on both sides of the debate are so certain about the economic effects of staying in or leaving. They must be quick learners! I don't believe any of them and find myself ignoring most of what passes for debate.
If the truth of the economic argument can't be known, what does that leave?
For me, a bunch of eclectic issues that I care about - peace, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, human rights, workers' rights, the environment, animal welfare, internationalism - lots of things that can't easily be measured but make the biggest differences to our lives.
And those issues swing strongly to an IN vote.
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Post by heavyglow on Apr 21, 2016 16:21:08 GMT 1
I shudder to think what Brexit would mean for the UK poppers industry, which is largely centred in Yorkshire. The additional tariffs imposed when trading with Europe could well sour strong export links to the lucrative poppers markets of Amsterdam, Lisbon, Vilnius and Constantinople.
With rival poppers producers (such as the heavy density but low buzz up and comers from Norway and the "Liquid Fools Gold" produced in the Balkans) aggressively targeting traditional UK export strongholds, it's hard to underestimate the seismic shock that a Brexit vote would cause to the UK poppers industry. It's not outlandish to suggest that this in isolation could shave 2-3% off our GDP.
Simple decision to Bremain for me.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 16:22:40 GMT 1
I'm on the side of schools, NHS and libraries, so out for me.
I expect the in's of Bankers and big businessmen will win the day, what with the large war chest of taxpayers money Dave and Gideon have thrown at it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 16:24:51 GMT 1
Recent polls shows opinion swinging back in favour of Remain.
I think that the economy and a lack of "Exit" strategy from the Leave camp will sway many.
For me In In In!
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Post by heavyglow on Apr 21, 2016 16:27:22 GMT 1
I'm on the side of schools, NHS and libraries, so out for me.
What a Nonce Ecatur (to borrow your posting style) FAO: Shrewsfan1985 - it's a pun on non sequitur
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 16:31:09 GMT 1
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Post by timgallon on Apr 21, 2016 16:44:14 GMT 1
Out for me and cant see anything changing that.
My predication is though that the Remain camp will win, but not by much so the issue will still be on the Agenda a bit like the Scottish Independence vote. I can also see the Tory Party imploding, which wont be a bad thing.
Interesting times.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 21, 2016 17:03:17 GMT 1
Out for me and cant see anything changing that. My predication is though that the Remain camp will win, but not by much so the issue will still be on the Agenda a bit like the Scottish Independence vote. I can also see the Tory Party imploding, which wont be a bad thing. Interesting times. Totally agree with all this. I am out but suspect we will remain.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 17:15:26 GMT 1
All the usual nonsense apart it's been a fascinating debate.
As I mentioned on the other thread my instinct is to remain, because being born in '68 I have lived with it almost all my life and I've always worked, have a great lifestyle and buy cheap consumer goods when I want them. I also know people not so lucky as me who have benefited from EU membership. So why vote out?
Having said that I am open to a solid, reasoned and nuanced argument to convince me otherwise and as yet I haven't heard one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 17:24:56 GMT 1
How many people predicted the credit crunch and global depression? And yet so many people on both sides of the debate are so certain about the economic effects of staying in or leaving. They must be quick learners! I don't believe any of them and find myself ignoring most of what passes for debate. If the truth of the economic argument can't be known, what does that leave? For me, a bunch of eclectic issues that I care about - peace, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, human rights, workers' rights, the environment, animal welfare, internationalism - lots of things that can't easily be measured but make the biggest differences to our lives. And those issues swing strongly to an IN vote. Well said Venceremos. I will be voting IN for all the same reasons. Recntly I heard a woman on Question Time comment that she wanted her Britain back. What the f.ck did that mean ? I think I know and I really worry that for some , if not many ,the narrative will be led by the " keep our borders safe , don't let them foreigners in, they're taking all our jobs rhetoric ." The eclectic issues that you care about will be ignored .Hope I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm with you . Excellent post .
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Post by mattmw on Apr 21, 2016 17:31:28 GMT 1
Still undecided.
Been quite a lot of number crunching and locally a leave vote wouldn't seem to be particularly good for Shropshire due to loosing EU grants for agriculture, and potential impacts on the availability of staff for the health care sector
But uncertainty over the Euro zone and it potential shrinking, or at worst falling apart of that economy is an issue, and while leaving won't totally protect us we'd be less prone to the problems that would bring
Would definitely like more details of how the leave campaign think the post exit treaties and trade agreements can be worked through. Seems a very grey area with a lot of uncertainty over how it might work
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 21, 2016 17:50:56 GMT 1
I have not wavered - 100% IN. Besides the benefits of staying which are recognised by most party leaders, unions and business leaders, The Bank of England etc. Yes, I think Cameron and Osborne are prize pillocks, but..... I look at who is championing the Brexit campaign and see idiot, one trick pony Farage, nutter Boris, weasel Gove who has shafted the NHS and Education, Shropshire's very own Danny Boy, Pratterson, the loopy pair from Telford and, God help us, the Daily Express.. If the policies did not sway me, that lot certainly would.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 18:15:32 GMT 1
In. Unless someone can give me a good and serious reason to leave then that won't change. Don't feed me bollox about sovereignty and that s**t, or the amazing £53m that I will never see a penny of if we leave anyway, might as well send it to Brussels as give it to dave, gideon and their rich buddies, or border controls that we have neglected and starved of funds for decades so it can't be that important can it???
My life is just fine in europe. Why would I want to risk so much.
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Post by percy on Apr 21, 2016 18:20:47 GMT 1
I have not wavered - 100% IN. Besides the benefits of staying which are recognised by most party leaders, unions and business leaders, The Bank of England etc. Yes, I think Cameron and Osborne are prize pillocks, but..... I look at who is championing the Brexit campaign and see idiot, one trick pony Farage, nutter Boris, weasel Gove who has shafted the NHS and Education, Shropshire's very own Danny Boy, Pratterson, the loopy pair from Telford and, God help us, the Daily Express.. If the policies did not sway me, that lot certainly would. The benefit of staying in is ONLY a degree of certainty. Anybody who professes to have more / better information is fibbing. I've now seen scenarios from most of our largest financial institutions and that really is it. Osbourne's projections were laughable - stating a fact that staying in will make us better off - when you allow for the margin of error in the projections there was no difference at all.
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Apr 21, 2016 18:27:13 GMT 1
I have not wavered - 100% IN. Besides the benefits of staying which are recognised by most party leaders, unions and business leaders, The Bank of England etc. Yes, I think Cameron and Osborne are prize pillocks, but..... I look at who is championing the Brexit campaign and see idiot, one trick pony Farage, nutter Boris, weasel Gove who has shafted the NHS and Education, Shropshire's very own Danny Boy, Pratterson, the loopy pair from Telford and, God help us, the Daily Express.. If the policies did not sway me, that lot certainly would. One from the loopy pair of Telford MPs is firmly in the remain camp. Corbyn has spent most of his political life campaigning against Europe and has now been got at by the Blairites.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 18:28:19 GMT 1
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Apr 21, 2016 18:35:57 GMT 1
I have not wavered - 100% IN. Besides the benefits of staying which are recognised by most party leaders, unions and business leaders, The Bank of England etc. Yes, I think Cameron and Osborne are prize pillocks, but..... I look at who is championing the Brexit campaign and see idiot, one trick pony Farage, nutter Boris, weasel Gove who has shafted the NHS and Education, Shropshire's very own Danny Boy, Pratterson, the loopy pair from Telford and, God help us, the Daily Express.. If the policies did not sway me, that lot certainly would. The benefit of staying in is ONLY a degree of certainty. Anybody who professes to have more / better information is fibbing. I've now seen scenarios from most of our largest financial institutions and that really is it. Osbourne's projections were laughable - stating a fact that staying in will make us better off - when you allow for the margin of error in the projections there was no difference at all. Yes laughable that Osbourne comes out with a statement like that. Thing is he said we'd be better off with a Tory Government in the lead up to election and most people believed him. Dont be doubled duped!
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Post by Uncle_Monkey on Apr 21, 2016 18:49:00 GMT 1
Not quite sure why you are lobbing these largely irrelevant things in. Few people on here would dispute that Osborne (in the words of ExKeeper) is a prize pillock. But it doesn't necessarily make him wrong on this question.
Have a look at the quality of economic arguments for Remain and then have a look at the same for Brexit. You won't find a single comprehensive study supporting Brexit - even the 2 main campaign groups won't publish anything. The stuff that has come from Flexcit is so laughable even UKIP won't use it. Maybe even they realise something written in green ink and covered in spittle is best avoided.
There may well be some chancers in the Remain camp - but there are also a huge number of eminent people - compare Steven Hawking and 150 top scientists, renowned economists, 8 out of 10 businesses etc. Then compare them to the 'star' performers from Brexit.
Nigel Farage looks increasingly like a frog that's had a firework explode up it's arse. And Boris. The man who literally can't tie his shoelaces unless his butler helps him.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 18:56:27 GMT 1
Not quite sure why you are lobbing these largely irrelevant things in.
Why is it irrelevant? He's one of the major figures advocating to remain.
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Post by Dale on Apr 21, 2016 20:37:10 GMT 1
'Better together' was the message from the UK to the Scottish public and the referendum there, for me it's the same regarding the UK and the EU.
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Post by darkshrew on Apr 21, 2016 20:42:19 GMT 1
'Better together' was the message from the UK to the Scottish public and the referendum there, for me it's the same regarding the UK and the EU. But the idea is to bring everyone to the same level and we are so much better off than most of the EU (now it has been expanded) - inevitably this means it is worse for us ?
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Post by jamo on Apr 21, 2016 21:40:53 GMT 1
I'm on the side of schools, NHS and libraries, so out for me.
In. 100%. The EEC is not perfect, sometimes quite wildly so, but if you genuinely believe that ( and there is no reason to dis- believe you ) then the prospect of this conservative government following our exit providing a true and genuine guardianship of those and other necessary services scares me witless. It won't happen and in fact will get considerably worse. I also really hate the rampant nationalism that the OUT campaign appear to be clinging to. I'm British by birth but European by inclination and definitely see the future prosperity and safety of my children and grandchildren as being part of a greater Europe
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 22:15:57 GMT 1
I'm on the side of schools, NHS and libraries, so out for me.
In. 100%. The EEC is not perfect, sometimes quite wildly so, but if you genuinely believe that ( and there is no reason to dis- believe you ) then the prospect of this conservative government following our exit providing a true and genuine guardianship of those and other necessary services scares me witless. It won't happen and in fact will get considerably worse. I also really hate the rampant nationalism that the OUT campaign appear to be clinging to. I'm British by birth but European by inclination and definitely see the future prosperity and safety of my children and grandchildren as being part of a greater Europe
Then we will have to agree to disagree. One size fits all doesn't work. Meanwhile, while you Shrewsbury folk enjoy the council chucking millions on the worst theatre it's ever been my dubious pleasure to visit, we're struggling to save our library and the Sparc centre is under threat, because of the cuts. The swimming pool will close, even though local residents raised the money for it in the first place. I'll chuck a few quid in, because I believe in defending our services, rather than paying the busy doing nothing brigade in Brussels. Any road up, it's my last word on the subject on here.
If I see you in the powerleagues, I'll buy you half, that's all we can afford down here in the South of the county.
www.jollypages.co.uk/castlenews/2012/07/sparc-timetable-slashed-as-shropshire-targets-bishops-castle-for-cuts/
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Post by mattmw on Apr 21, 2016 22:24:46 GMT 1
As someone dealing head on with the cuts to leisure services and other Council services I can definitely say it's nothing to do with the EU. Shrewsbury and all the other towns are just as likely to lose their facilities as Bishop's Castle
Those cuts are the direct result of Government cuts which MPs from both the leave and stay campaigns, and local MPs voted for
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Post by jamo on Apr 21, 2016 22:24:48 GMT 1
In. 100%. The EEC is not perfect, sometimes quite wildly so, but if you genuinely believe that ( and there is no reason to dis- believe you ) then the prospect of this conservative government following our exit providing a true and genuine guardianship of those and other necessary services scares me witless. It won't happen and in fact will get considerably worse. I also really hate the rampant nationalism that the OUT campaign appear to be clinging to. I'm British by birth but European by inclination and definitely see the future prosperity and safety of my children and grandchildren as being part of a greater Europe
Then we will have to agree to disagree. One size fits all doesn't work. Meanwhile, while you Shrewsbury folk enjoy the council chucking millions on the worst theatre it's ever been my dubious pleasure to visit, we're struggling to save our library and the Sparc centre is under threat, because of the cuts. The swimming pool will close, even though local residents raised the money for it in the first place. I'll chuck a few quid in, because I believe in defending our services, rather than paying the busy doing nothing brigade in Brussels. Any road up, it's my last word on the subject on here.
If I see you in the powerleagues, I'll buy you half, that's all we can afford down here in the South of the county.
www.jollypages.co.uk/castlenews/2012/07/sparc-timetable-slashed-as-shropshire-targets-bishops-castle-for-cuts/
Public libraries, swimming pools and museums aren't shutting in Europe but they are in this country through political ideology and not finances, that's what scares the hell out of me if we exit.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 21, 2016 22:37:31 GMT 1
Then we will have to agree to disagree. One size fits all doesn't work. Meanwhile, while you Shrewsbury folk enjoy the council chucking millions on the worst theatre it's ever been my dubious pleasure to visit, we're struggling to save our library and the Sparc centre is under threat, because of the cuts. The swimming pool will close, even though local residents raised the money for it in the first place. I'll chuck a few quid in, because I believe in defending our services, rather than paying the busy doing nothing brigade in Brussels. Any road up, it's my last word on the subject on here.
If I see you in the powerleagues, I'll buy you half, that's all we can afford down here in the South of the county.
www.jollypages.co.uk/castlenews/2012/07/sparc-timetable-slashed-as-shropshire-targets-bishops-castle-for-cuts/
Public libraries, swimming pools and museums aren't shutting in Europe but they are in this country through political ideology and not finances, that's what scares the hell out of me if we exit.
I'm sorry, but I'm not answering you.
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Post by Bordershrew on Apr 21, 2016 22:46:50 GMT 1
Out. Can't see one legitimate argument for staying in, every one I read is pure guesswork based on dodgy Daves and Osbournes "stats".
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