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Post by townfanincrewe on Jun 26, 2016 0:22:26 GMT 1
It was the Governments own fault if they don't like what happend , they and the people who wanted to stay in only have them selves to blame. They never had to have this vote. No one made them, they did it knowing what would happen if they lost so why risk it unless it was to give them selves more power? They were already in so why else risk every thing apart from making sure they were voted back in. We are out now like it or not so we have to get used to it and pull together and make it work, If any body can make this work What's left of the United Kingdom can. I do think as the Goverment started this the country should be given the chance to have an election though because at least half the country no longer trust half of the Goverment no mater which side your on.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 26, 2016 2:12:14 GMT 1
It was the Governments own fault if they don't like what happend , they and the people who wanted to stay in only have them selves to blame. They never had to have this vote. No one made them, they did it knowing what would happen if they lost so why risk it unless it was to give them selves more power? They were already in so why else risk every thing apart from making sure they were voted back in. We are out now like it or not so we have to get used to it and pull together and make it work, If any body can make this work What's left of the United Kingdom can. I do think as the Goverment started this the country should be given the chance to have an election though because at least half the country no longer trust half of the Goverment no mater which side your on. Make it work? We don't even have a leader and nobody knows what to do next. Cameron's resignation has knocked the Johnson/Gove train off its rails and Farage isn't relevant. The interesting political manoeuvres are coming from Europe at the moment.
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Post by townfanincrewe on Jun 26, 2016 3:28:27 GMT 1
I did not say I know how to make it work, or if its what I wanted. The thing is its here and we can let the country fall completely off the rails, Sort the mess out and get on with making it work or become the laughing stock of the world and beg to go against democracy and be let back in. People voted out to stop Europe bossing us about and their still trying to do it! I'm not one side or the other, just don't think descending in to panic will help any one.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 26, 2016 8:40:08 GMT 1
We need calm heads now. I do hope that the UK doesn't get rushed into this as they are being pressed to to do by one or two within the EU. This is going to be a huge task and an important one to boot, it should not be rushed. Anyhow, something to read over your morning coffee... Why I am voting Leave, by Professor Alan Johnson
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 9:05:22 GMT 1
We need calm heads now. I do hope that the UK doesn't get rushed into this as they are being pressed to to do by one or two within the EU. This is going to be a huge task and an important one to boot, it should not be rushed. Anyhow, something to read over your morning coffee... Why I am voting Leave, by Professor Alan JohnsonInteresting, if a bit long! Good to see a thought out rejection of eu rather than the usual ukip rubbish. The undemocratic thing bothers me less every time Daniel kacynski is reelected by the wise people of Shrewsbury and atcham. What hope is there for democracy when our town reelects that absolute loser? Hopefully he'll be deported to Poland once we leave EU
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 9:52:10 GMT 1
We need calm heads now. I do hope that the UK doesn't get rushed into this as they are being pressed to to do by one or two within the EU. This is going to be a huge task and an important one to boot, it should not be rushed. Anyhow, something to read over your morning coffee... Why I am voting Leave, by Professor Alan JohnsonJohnson is an old school Socialist and that article is left-wing dog whistling. It also shows that even academics can talk out of their @rse. The EU is Neo-Liberalist? No Sherlock. That's because the global economy is. See my comments up thread about 'Lexit'. The idea that by leaving the EU will herald a UK Social Democracy is nonsense. The closest thing to a Social Democrat in main stream politics is about to get kicked out and Johnson fails to realise where power actually lies in the UK.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 26, 2016 10:14:55 GMT 1
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Post by supermac11 on Jun 26, 2016 10:33:11 GMT 1
I did not say I know how to make it work, or if its what I wanted. The thing is its here and we can let the country fall completely off the rails, Sort the mess out and get on with making it work or become the laughing stock of the world and beg to go against democracy and be let back in. People voted out to stop Europe bossing us about and their still trying to do it! I'm not one side or the other, just don't think descending in to panic will help any one. You might have expected though that leavers would have had some sort of plan for exit but apparently not. It seems perfectly reasonable that the other 27 states ("Europe?") would want to get this sorted out as soon as possible - uncertainty is nearly as bad as panic in the business world. Why would they want to wait another 3/4 months whilst the Conservative elects a leader?
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 26, 2016 10:52:08 GMT 1
Won't he just run again and get back in though if they try to get rid of him? Labour are in a bigger mess than the tories and that takes some doing.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 26, 2016 10:55:15 GMT 1
We need calm heads now. I do hope that the UK doesn't get rushed into this as they are being pressed to to do by one or two within the EU. This is going to be a huge task and an important one to boot, it should not be rushed. Anyhow, something to read over your morning coffee... Why I am voting Leave, by Professor Alan JohnsonInteresting, if a bit long! Good to see a thought out rejection of eu rather than the usual ukip rubbish. The undemocratic thing bothers me less every time Daniel kacynski is reelected by the wise people of Shrewsbury and atcham. What hope is therefor democracy when our town reelects that absolute loser? Hopefully he'll be deported to Poland once we leave EU Here here. We have such a ridiculous situation in Shropshire whereby no matter what a Tory will be elected. If a scarecrow stood wearing a blue badge he'd get in
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Post by MartinB on Jun 26, 2016 10:59:29 GMT 1
Interesting, if a bit long! Good to see a thought out rejection of eu rather than the usual ukip rubbish. The undemocratic thing bothers me less every time Daniel kacynski is reelected by the wise people of Shrewsbury and atcham. What hope is therefor democracy when our town reelects that absolute loser? Hopefully he'll be deported to Poland once we leave EU Here here. We have such a ridiculous situation in Shropshire whereby no matter what a Tory will be elected. If a scarecrow stood wearing a blue badge he'd get in what is ridiculous about an area where a majority of people vote for a party they get elected?
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 26, 2016 11:53:20 GMT 1
Here here. We have such a ridiculous situation in Shropshire whereby no matter what a Tory will be elected. If a scarecrow stood wearing a blue badge he'd get in what is ridiculous about an area where a majority of people vote for a party they get elected? The fact that they vote entirely on basis of party with no consideration of the fact that the candidate himself is a complete oxygen thief?
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Post by venceremos on Jun 26, 2016 12:04:46 GMT 1
I did not say I know how to make it work, or if its what I wanted. The thing is its here and we can let the country fall completely off the rails, Sort the mess out and get on with making it work or become the laughing stock of the world and beg to go against democracy and be let back in. People voted out to stop Europe bossing us about and their still trying to do it! I'm not one side or the other, just don't think descending in to panic will help any one. My point was that nobody knows how to make it work. Our situation is chaotic, our main parties are cast adrift and the "winners" have no power. Everyday life continues of course but the idea that we just get on with sorting out the mess ignores the fact that the politicians don't know what we're getting on with, or who can do it! The EU isn't trying to boss us around but there are two sides to this (much as the Ukippers seem to think otherwise). The EU will rightly protect what it sees as its best interests, not ours, just as we will do the opposite. That's how negotiation works - we were never going to be able to dictate anything. The assumption that we can make all the running now and do as we please is complacent tosh. Boris Johnson said on Friday we're not pulling up the drawbridge on Europe. Fine, but as someone remarked, he's assuming the hinge is on our side.
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Post by MartinB on Jun 26, 2016 12:20:36 GMT 1
what is ridiculous about an area where a majority of people vote for a party they get elected? The fact that they vote entirely on basis of party with no consideration of the fact that the candidate himself is a complete oxygen thief? how many people round the country vote purely for the party. Most people I would suggest. Very few vote for the candidate as a person
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Post by venceremos on Jun 26, 2016 12:33:30 GMT 1
The fact that they vote entirely on basis of party with no consideration of the fact that the candidate himself is a complete oxygen thief? how many people round the country vote purely for the party. Most people I would suggest. Very few vote for the candidate as a person Agreed, but that's not the fundamental principle of our parliamentary democracy, which is that we elect an MP to represent our constituency. It's therefore legitimate to call it ridiculous that people elect someone that many deem unfit for the job. The alternative is to scrap the constituency principle, or base it on regional representatives, as we do/did for our MEPs.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 26, 2016 12:43:06 GMT 1
We need calm heads now. I do hope that the UK doesn't get rushed into this as they are being pressed to to do by one or two within the EU. This is going to be a huge task and an important one to boot, it should not be rushed. Anyhow, something to read over your morning coffee... Why I am voting Leave, by Professor Alan JohnsonJohnson is an old school Socialist and that article is left-wing dog whistling. It also shows that even academics can talk out of their @rse. Which parts is he talking out of his arse? Specifics please...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 13:49:26 GMT 1
I thought the Tory government was in turmoil, and indeed it is. However , the Labour Party is on the verge of meltdown. Corbyn is now under tremendous pressure after sacking Hilary Benn . Resignations galore from his shadow cabinet . Don't know how this is all going to play out . Nicola Sturgeon is now saying her party will vote against us leaving the EU as I understand the decision has to be formally recognised, for want of a better description , through Parliament . What a bloody mess , sure to instill confidence in the financial institutions and indeed other countries that we know what we are doing . I forecast a s**t storm for the Tory Party , I now fear a s**t storm for the whole country the way things are going . Neither the Tory Party or Labour know how they stand bearing in mind that both parties will be facing a leadership contest .
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Post by northwestman on Jun 26, 2016 14:10:32 GMT 1
what is ridiculous about an area where a majority of people vote for a party they get elected? The fact that they vote entirely on basis of party with no consideration of the fact that the candidate himself is a complete oxygen thief? And goodness knows Shrewsbury has had a terrible record of oxygen thieves in recent years. Must be one of the worst in the country.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 26, 2016 14:12:10 GMT 1
I thought the Tory government was in turmoil, and indeed it is. However , the Labour Party is on the verge of meltdown. Corbyn is now under tremendous pressure after sacking Hilary Benn . Resignations galore from his shadow cabinet . Don't know how this is all going to play out . Nicola Sturgeon is now saying her party will vote against us leaving the EU as I understand the decision has to be formally recognised, for want of a better description , through Parliament . What a bloody mess , sure to instill confidence in the financial institutions and indeed other countries that we know what we are doing . I forecast a s**t storm for the Tory Party , I now fear a s**t storm for the whole country the way things are going . Neither the Tory Party or Labour know how they stand bearing in mind that both parties will be facing a leadership contest . I think that is the reason why a good few folk in the shires voted the way they did. To shake things up a bit. Many people feel that they have been left behind. They wanted change. I think a fair few won't be too unhappy to see the chaos unfold.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 14:18:02 GMT 1
Johnson is an old school Socialist and that article is left-wing dog whistling. It also shows that even academics can talk out of their @rse. Which parts is he talking out of his arse? Specifics please... "...undemocratic, neoliberal, corrupt and a bad foreign policy actor in a dangerous world." Because this is his default position on pretty much any modern democracy, which not only ignores pragmatic politics, but also geo-political and socio-economic factors around Europe and the rest of the world. He is so entrenched in his own political dogma he can't see over the parapet and see the world for what it is. It's all very well posting links like this, but you need to understand the context and political position he writing from.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 14:28:08 GMT 1
Here here. We have such a ridiculous situation in Shropshire whereby no matter what a Tory will be elected. If a scarecrow stood wearing a blue badge he'd get in what is ridiculous about an area where a majority of people vote for a party they get elected? Depends on what area you're talking about Martin. In Shrewsbury the majority didn't vote for DK. In Ludlow and the South and North Shropshire the majority did vote for the MP, but is it truly representative? www.shropshire.gov.uk/media/1600988/2015-general-election-result-.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 14:57:46 GMT 1
I thought the Tory government was in turmoil, and indeed it is. However , the Labour Party is on the verge of meltdown. Corbyn is now under tremendous pressure after sacking Hilary Benn . Resignations galore from his shadow cabinet . Don't know how this is all going to play out . Nicola Sturgeon is now saying her party will vote against us leaving the EU as I understand the decision has to be formally recognised, for want of a better description , through Parliament . What a bloody mess , sure to instill confidence in the financial institutions and indeed other countries that we know what we are doing . I forecast a s**t storm for the Tory Party , I now fear a s**t storm for the whole country the way things are going . Neither the Tory Party or Labour know how they stand bearing in mind that both parties will be facing a leadership contest . I think that is the reason why a good few folk in the shires voted the way they did. To shake things up a bit. Many people feel that they have been left behind. They wanted change. I think a fair few won't be too unhappy to see the chaos unfold. Bet the good farming community in the Shires didn't vote to leave . Many exist solely because of the subsidies they receive from the EU. which is not inconsiderable . Dont see how those who felt " left behind " will feel any better when the cost of living rises , the NHS suffers and their local authorities begin to review their budget settlements and cut even more of the essential services they provide . What we don't need in this period of transition is chaos . If Cameron had held his nerve , faced down those on his back benches who were against anything eminating from Europe and not offered a referendum , we wouldn't be in this mess . Of course he thought he would win the " remain " referendum . How wrong he was leading to his own resignation, the Country out of Europe and every possibilty that Scotland will leave the Union . Another worry for those voting to leave the EU is the question of our border. Does it start in Calais or in Dover ? The chaos is certainly unfolding but not in the way anyone with an ounce of sense would want to witness . During the period of our exit and the task of unraveling how we would continue we need a cross party consensus . How are we going to achieve this when both major parties are in such a state of flux, it's disasterous for all of us . The more I think about it the more depressed I become .
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 26, 2016 15:07:44 GMT 1
I see the frontman of Radioyed has signed the petition for a re-run of the referendum. I'd have voted remain if I'd known.
Don't forget Dave told us forrin holidays would go up. The ****er I've booked has gone down 20 quid a yed.
Hold yer nerve people. We're going to come out of this sound as a pound. (And yes, the pound is sound).
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Post by shrewder on Jun 26, 2016 15:10:59 GMT 1
The lesson from all this MPs are paid to govern the country and make all the big decisions. Putting such decisions in the hands of the electorate will probably always get the decision which is not in the best interests of the country.
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tosalop
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Post by tosalop on Jun 26, 2016 15:30:43 GMT 1
Funny enough the petition for another referendum was started a month ago by a leave campaigner when things were looking very positive for the remain camp! In regards to our border the UK and France have a separate agreement meaning we can keep border control in France regardless of eu membership. Whatever the SNP say publicly this is the outcome they must have hoped for so they could wheel out their independence bandwagon again despite them losing quite convincingly not so long ago. The fall out from the EU referendum was/is nothing compared to the Scottish independence one so I question whether they want to go through it all again. The sensible solution would be to wait for at least 5 years and see how things look.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 15:35:44 GMT 1
The referendum in Scotland was lost certainly . But remember , at the time we were still members of the EU . We aren't now and how did Scotland vote in the EU referendum? Different ball game now .
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tosalop
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Post by tosalop on Jun 26, 2016 15:39:52 GMT 1
The lesson from all this MPs are paid to govern the country and make all the big decisions. Putting such decisions in the hands of the electorate will probably always get the decision which is not in the best interests of the country. MP's are there to represent the people who elected them and their views. As has been shown the majority of MP's are out of touch with their voters. They need to change this and quickly.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 26, 2016 15:48:59 GMT 1
Just reading some of the European papers, I'm not sure there will be a remain to belong to. The natives are getting restless. I'll bet we'll thank our lucky stars we got out when we did.
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Post by MartinB on Jun 26, 2016 16:04:29 GMT 1
The lesson from all this MPs are paid to govern the country and make all the big decisions. Putting such decisions in the hands of the electorate will probably always get the decision which is not in the best interests of the country. MP's are there to represent the people who elected them and their views. As has been shown the majority of MP's are out of touch with their voters. They need to change this and quickly. You mean all 52% of voters who wanted to leave Europe? 48% most MP'S were in tune with on this subject
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tosalop
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Post by tosalop on Jun 26, 2016 16:05:13 GMT 1
The referendum in Scotland was lost certainly . But remember , at the time we were still members of the EU . We aren't now and how did Scotland vote in the EU referendum? Different ball game now . It is yes. It just annoys me as they clearly voted to stay part of the UK. The UK then has a vote and as the result was one they didn't like the SNP kick off. Just waiting for London to launch their own independence party!
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