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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 9, 2011 8:55:45 GMT 1
Just a short list of the trouble so far...
In the last three days the following places have had riots/Looting
6rd August
Tottenham – Original Riot/Building Fires/Looting/Car Fires Wood Green – Riot Tottenham Hale – Looting Retail Park
7th August Wood Green/Wood Green High Road – Electric Goods Stores/Other Shops Looted// Local Turks and Kurdish form Local Protection Units Enfield – Town Centre Shops Looted the Riots Ponders End – Riot (following Enfield Trouble) Brixton – Fires/Major Riots/Looting Ilford – Looting/Reports of a firebomb Islington – Police Van Attacked Oxford Circus – Small Scale shop damage Waltham Cross – Looting/Riot/Police vehicle damage Streatham – Retail Park Looting Dalston – Looting at a Shopping Centre Denmark Hill – Gangland Fight, people stabbed
5th August (all 32 London Boroughs placed on Riot alert)
Tottenham – Jewellers Looted Enfield – Jewellers Looted Wood Green – Jewellers Looted Enfield – Cars set on Fire/Looting/Riot Ponders End - Cars set on Fire/Looting/Riot Sony Distribution Centre Near M25 – Looted and set on Fire/M25 Shrouded in Smoke Walthamstow and Walthamstow Central – Looting Chingford Mount – Attempted Murder of a the polince and yobs drove a car into a groupe of police/Looting Hackney – Bus on Fire/Looting/Major Riot Croyden – Major Fires/Major Looting/Major Riot (Key flashpoint) Harlesden - Looting Peckham – Car and building Fires/Looting/Riots Bethnal Green – Riots Chelsea – Looting of an Antiques Store Lewisham – Looting/Rioting Ealing – Looting/Rioting/fires set Brent – Small riot at the =Brent Cross shopping centre Barnet – Looting/Riots Old Kent Road – Looting Woolwich – Looting New Addington – Building Fire/Looting Birmingham – Looting/Riots/Police Station Set on Fire Leeds - Riots Liverpool – Riots in Toxtheth Nottingham – Police Station attacked/Car on Fire Bristol – Riots/Looting Kent – Chatham – Vandalism/Fires Kent – Gillingham – Vandalism/Fires Kent – Rainham – Vandalism/Fires
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Post by petetheloon on Aug 9, 2011 8:57:22 GMT 1
This town is becoming like a ghost town...
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Post by neilsalop on Aug 9, 2011 8:58:53 GMT 1
It might sound crude, but I'd get the water cannons out with dye in the water. No running away from it then. Reading some other countries news sites online earlier and thinking that all this must send out a terrible message to the whole world. This is the country that wants to host the next Olympic Games and maybe one day a World Cup (Sepp can't stay forever ). Chavs and thugs are basically ruining their own communities and putting people out work. Where successive governments have failed to wreck communities over the years, these a******* are looking to succeed. From wiki : Riot is an indictable offence under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, triable on indictment before a Crown court, and punishable by up to ten years imprisonment and/or a fine. Anyone caught should be given the maximum 10 years and any juvenile should see their parents hit with the maximum fine. ETA. How many small scale crimes are going uninvestigated while the police are busy trying to contain the looting and rioting?
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 9, 2011 9:05:45 GMT 1
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Post by solishrew on Aug 9, 2011 9:26:33 GMT 1
Sadly, having been on jury service recently and seen first hand, there is an underclass in society who do not live their lives to the same moral and ethical code as the majority of us. Their lives are consumed with bitterness, drugs, gangs, weaponry,materialism, where peers determine the way they run their lives. I do not know what the answer is. I was brought up to believe that life/society does not owe me but that I have an obligation to make a contribution to society and that comes from a strong work and moral ethic. Maybe National service ( old school style) would instill a sense of self pride, a strong work ethic, a moral/ethical code, the sense that life doesn't owe you, you owe it. No matter how difficult things got when I was a kid the thought of accepting a life on benefits was abhorrent - for some of these people it's their aspiration - that has to change.
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Aug 9, 2011 10:15:50 GMT 1
the squeeze is on and these people are at the bottom of the chain, they've seen bankers policemen politicians business et al loot the country maybe they think they are getting they're tiny share? Its all very sad but quite predictable , we've produced a group of people who have so little hope that this , short term grab is a genuine opportunity , how desolate. glad i live in shropshire! Aldo how did you lump the police in with bankers and politicians looting the country!(Financially i assume you mean) Its the old bill who are facing this wave of violence and the fact its spreading to Birmingham etc where more excuse to steal and rob takes place. This now has nothing to do with grabbing a tiny share but a ruthless opportunity to steal.. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img][/quote] The reason the police can be lumped in to it is because they are not trusted, by the people that are rioting. Look at the G8 riots. If you come out of the shop we will not arrest you, then get arrested when they come out. It's not an unusual tactic of the police that. The Police should of know something was going to happen, Braodwater farm any one?, but left the area undermanned after the shooting. I lived in the east end for 2 years and around the area this is happening for a year. The whole area is a powder keg waiting for a spark, and the majority of police in the area seam to have an arrogant aura around them. So you have an area that has a history of rioting after a shooting, any non arrogant/half a brain person would have seen this coming and put extra bodies in the area.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 9, 2011 10:24:03 GMT 1
Large fires burning in Ealing, Enfield, Croydon, Woolwich and Woodford Green, according to Sky - Still as of 10.20am!
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Post by aldo on Aug 9, 2011 10:48:42 GMT 1
Aldo how did you lump the police in with bankers and politicians looting the country!(Financially i assume you mean) Its the old bill who are facing this wave of violence and the fact its spreading to Birmingham etc where more excuse to steal and rob takes place. This now has nothing to do with grabbing a tiny share but a ruthless opportunity to steal.. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img][/quote] The reason the police can be lumped in to it is because they are not trusted, by the people that are rioting. Look at the G8 riots. If you come out of the shop we will not arrest you, then get arrested when they come out. It's not an unusual tactic of the police that. The Police should of know something was going to happen, Braodwater farm any one?, but left the area undermanned after the shooting. I lived in the east end for 2 years and around the area this is happening for a year. The whole area is a powder keg waiting for a spark, and the majority of police in the area seam to have an arrogant aura around them. So you have an area that has a history of rioting after a shooting, any non arrogant/half a brain person would have seen this coming and put extra bodies in the area. [/quote] yes, the reputation the police has in those areas is not good at all and we have also seen policemen in London on the take over the hacking scandal too. It is a small minority of policement that spoil it, but it is also a small minority of people rioting.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 10:49:40 GMT 1
"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King.
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Post by Mike Claridge on Aug 9, 2011 10:58:16 GMT 1
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Post by Fingers on Aug 9, 2011 10:58:25 GMT 1
"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King. Are you for real?
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:05:35 GMT 1
"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King. Are you for real? Just a quote I like.
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:09:02 GMT 1
"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King. Are you for real? Sorry I have to agree with the quote. Point to the bit that hasn't happened from the quote. The only reason politicians are taking notice is because there is a riot. Most politicians wouldn't even know about these people and what they normally have to put up with, because they are too busy talking to people with money, and lining their own pockets.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:10:54 GMT 1
Sorry I have to agree with the quote. Point to the bit that hasn't happened from the quote. The only reason politicians are taking notice is because there is a riot. Most politicians wouldn't even know about these people and what they normally have to put up with, because they are too busy talking to people with money, and lining their own pockets. Exlated when I can!
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Post by aldo on Aug 9, 2011 11:15:16 GMT 1
Sorry I have to agree with the quote. Point to the bit that hasn't happened from the quote. The only reason politicians are taking notice is because there is a riot. Most politicians wouldn't even know about these people and what they normally have to put up with, because they are too busy talking to people with money, and lining their own pockets. Exlated when I can! me too, good original quote too
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Post by timgallon on Aug 9, 2011 11:17:33 GMT 1
Cameron has jus annonced there will be 16,000 coppers out in London tonight up from the 6,000 there was last night.
Question i would be asking if my property had been attacked last night is where we these extra 10,000 coppers last night!
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:25:36 GMT 1
Cameron has jus annonced there will be 16,000 coppers out in London tonight up from the 6,000 there was last night. Question i would be asking if my property had been attacked last night is where we these extra 10,000 coppers last night! Valid point, but I'd imagine they would be from neighbouring forces like Essex etc, and the problem with that is then you leave them areas open to it! Cameron needs to show some leadership quite quickly as he already is in my lifetime the weakest PM I've seen. Get on the ****ing streets and TALK to people, try to defuse it rather than statements via the press!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2011 11:28:13 GMT 1
Loved the interview with the guy on the news earlier who said he was rioting because he was fed up of living in poverty but then when asked how the riots were organised pointed to the updates he was receiving on his blackberry.
Of course there are social problems and a greater divide in wealth in the country than before, especially in inner city areas, but don't see any evidence of how these riots are based on a political campaign - would we not see the banks and political establishments being attacked instead?
What we are seeing is groups of youths with an excuse for violence and looting and there not being enough of a preventative deterrent for these events happening. There have not been enough police on the streets to deal with this and dare I say those police who have been on the streets do not have the scope/ power to deal with those protesting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2011 11:30:44 GMT 1
16,000 is not enough.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Aug 9, 2011 11:36:43 GMT 1
Right, they've got more police in London but what about the rest of the country? It seems as if these mobs everywhere in the country fancy some free goodies.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:42:15 GMT 1
Loved the interview with the guy on the news earlier who said he was rioting because he was fed up of living in poverty but then when asked how the riots were organised pointed to the updates he was receiving on his blackberry. Of course there are social problems and a greater divide in wealth in the country than before, especially in inner city areas, but don't see any evidence of how these riots are based on a political campaign - would we not see the banks and political establishments being attacked instead? What we are seeing is groups of youths with an excuse for violence and looting and there not being enough of a preventative deterrent for these events happening. There have not been enough police on the streets to deal with this and dare I say those police who have been on the streets do not have the scope/ power to deal with those protesting. Valid point, but with the phone issue I'd imagine almost 95% of the public both rich and poor own one. With regards to why they aren't attacking the banks etc, some banks branches have been targeted. The problem is these people only know one way to expose how p**sed off they are and that is via kicking off, I don't agree with all these looting etc but can see why the Youths are angry. People at Westminster just don't know / care about the issues they face. Must be terrible being on the dole whilst WANTING to work and simply cant get anything due to lack of training / job hunting cuts due to cut backs. Of course some people on the dole and looting just because they are lazy and can't be arsed. Just hope people see through them ones and see the fact they are Youths are there who want to become something!
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 9, 2011 11:47:34 GMT 1
"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King. Are you for real? Nobody can justify the thuggery and looting of the last few nights, but equally politicians need to recognise that there are large number of dillusioned youngsters out there that see no future for themselves.
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Post by Fingers on Aug 9, 2011 11:50:40 GMT 1
Maybe lost in translation - the quote is fantastic and from a truely insprirational leader - the context for which it was used is different though and I don't think the looters read up on this and thought lets riot! Regarding the latest post - totally agree it is horrible wanting to work but with no jobs out there for you. The thing is there will be people on this board in the same situation. There are jobs out there - you may not like doing them but that's life.
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Post by El Presidente on Aug 9, 2011 11:52:34 GMT 1
Question i would be asking if my property had been attacked last night is where we these extra 10,000 coppers last night! Only a finite number of trained officers and protective equipment. Extra officers will be mustered from other forces. And of course the MET will have a big bill to pay for it at the end of the day. As Ant will vouche, budgets have to be met, accounts settled... If an officer is drawn away from Essex, for example, to work on a job in the MET area, well, ESSEX will want his wages paying.
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Post by Fingers on Aug 9, 2011 11:54:18 GMT 1
Nobody can justify the thuggery and looting of the last few nights, but equally politicians need to recognise that there are large number of dillusioned youngsters out there that see no future for themselves. Possibly, would this have happened if the schools were still in session? There are far more people with issues out there. People who fight for jobs and have to move away from friends and family to obtain them. People who dispite all their efforts end up renting small poxy flats becuase they cannot get onto the housing market as people have been allowed to buy up houses like monopoly. What is more worrying is that there is a complete disregard for human life. The Tottenham torching could have seen many people injured or worse still killed. What have these people (or carpet right) done to these youths? If the youths were wearing football shirts the police would have been more heavy handed by now.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 11:54:49 GMT 1
Maybe lost in translation - the quote is fantastic and from a truely insprirational leader - the context for which it was used is different though and I don't think the looters read up on this and thought lets riot! Regarding the latest post - totally agree it is horrible wanting to work but with no jobs out there for you. The thing is there will be people on this board in the same situation. There are jobs out there - you may not like doing them but that's life. Yes sorry should I really stated what Hatfieldshrew said, was a quote in a quote and all that.
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Post by willsmith99 on Aug 9, 2011 12:00:06 GMT 1
why o why dont the goverment order a press blackout and pull the plug on facebook and twitter for 2 weeks?
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 9, 2011 12:03:05 GMT 1
I think this about sums it up, a line doing the rounds today
Last night extra 1500 police on duty than normal
For the Royal Wedding an extra 5000 police were on duty on Londons Streets.
Its no wonder they were caught out last night.
My thoughts... it will be places further out of London hit tonight as the looters move out of the city from the major police presnce to places where the police are deminished as they have sent people into the trouble spots... Who knows though...
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 9, 2011 12:04:56 GMT 1
why o why dont the goverment order a press blackout and pull the plug on facebook and twitter for 2 weeks? Because we don't live in North Korea?
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Aug 9, 2011 12:06:41 GMT 1
why o why dont the goverment order a press blackout and pull the plug on facebook and twitter for 2 weeks? Freedom of the press. Free speech. We live in a Democracy and not a fascist dictatorship (apparently). and it would cost to much money.
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