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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Mar 1, 2011 11:22:45 GMT 1
Could it be that ‘society’ expects us to be heterosexual and thus conform to it’s version of the norm. Whereas some gay men prefer to go along with that, I suspect that others feel trapped, suppressed and uncomfortable at having to keep their sexuality under wraps and find it impossible to keep up the pretence in almost every aspect of their day-to-day lives. In such cases, isn’t it acceptable (indeed a fundamental freedom) to ‘come out’ and be open about who you are? If not, then there is something fundamentally wrong with our ‘society’. Onthetrain says:”in the eyes of the lord wrong to be that way inclined”. What rot! Presuming you’re talking about God, so how do you know? Maybe some historical zealots (fanned by today’s ‘conservative’ factions) decided that they didn’t like gays and so decreed that it is God’s will. What arrogance to call God into this argument on your side!! Incidentally, although I respect freedom of speech, Onthetrain, I do believe that your arguments say a lot more about you than they do the gay community.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 11:41:37 GMT 1
Me and my missus are off out after her birthday meal on saturday and we will probably meet a couple of mates who are gay and end up at a gay bar in wolves, fancy coming along Dan? maybe not aye Again having a beer with somebody thats gay or socialising or being friends with them isn't the issue i'm arguing about. Its being naked in front of them that kinda of puts me off, not that they would look at me, but the chances are that out of say a squad of 20 there is bound to be one, two or even a few that they may well fancy and that to me is like putting me in a womens changing room because I know out of 20 I'd be certain to want to look at some of them as its a natural thing to do. I'm sure most women would feel uneasy about me being in the same changing room to them. Well it would be the same for me knowing that one of my team mates is gay. Despite that you still said that you would be ashamed if your son was gay. I would say that view is much more scary than you not wanting to get dressed aroudn gay men
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 11:44:48 GMT 1
And Steve Davis should be congratualted for coming out. I know most people don't care and the reason he has to the press is not for Cricket supporters and people on here but young kids who are finding it hard to come out to people. As he pointed out he wouldn't have done this if Gareth Thomas hadn't come out, and hopefully Steve coming out will lead to more, maybe even a footballer one day!!
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2011 11:59:59 GMT 1
I know one thing Gay isn't genetic Not really possible is it
Or wait, maybe darwen was right Maybe men will suddenly grow a womb
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Post by onthetrain92 on Mar 1, 2011 12:18:36 GMT 1
Again having a beer with somebody thats gay or socialising or being friends with them isn't the issue i'm arguing about. Its being naked in front of them that kinda of puts me off, not that they would look at me, but the chances are that out of say a squad of 20 there is bound to be one, two or even a few that they may well fancy and that to me is like putting me in a womens changing room because I know out of 20 I'd be certain to want to look at some of them as its a natural thing to do. I'm sure most women would feel uneasy about me being in the same changing room to them. Well it would be the same for me knowing that one of my team mates is gay. Despite that you still said that you would be ashamed if your son was gay. I would say that view is much more scary than you not wanting to get dressed aroudn gay men 1) You all need to get your facts right and STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS, I said i would be not be happy about it, I did not say I would be ashamed. 2) All I have said is that I WOULDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE changing (getting NAKED and having a shower) in the same room as somebody that was gay. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work it out, PLEASE READ AS ITS AN ISSUE THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE. Just imagine I get naked in the same room as 20 team mate women, I would bound to have an attraction to one or two maybe MORE women naked in that room with me. I'm sure a gay man will have the same attraction to some men. The thoughts would be in his mind. IN NO WAY DOES THIS ABOVE MEAN I AM HOMOPHOBIC. With regards to South Stand Shrew you are WRONG also as I did not KICK OFF at Macclesfield, I retaliated which is a completely different scenario. We regards to the man I fell out with that day we are now friendly and speak to eachother. We were in theory as bad as eachother that day, occasionally when alcohol is involved and one has had one to many as we both did that day things can happen, hence my reason why I don't drink beer before a match very often and if i do its no more than a pint maybe 2 at push. PEOPLE DO NEED TO GET THERE FACTS RIGHT. Ed Thomas why should I be humiliated for feelings? Just becuase you are gay it makes you still no better than anybody else. The Gay community seems a bit me me me. I don't have to tell the world i'm straight, what do you want? Sympathy? I don't care if your gay, I do care for my comfort.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 12:27:41 GMT 1
The reason you dont have to tell the world you are straight is the reason gay people have to come out. And sports people and other famous people coming out makes it more socially accpetable for younger kids to do so.
Fine, not 'ashamed' but still 'not happy', why the hell should sexual persuasion make any difference?!
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Post by onthetrain92 on Mar 1, 2011 12:46:53 GMT 1
Where does sexual persuasion come into this? Who is persauding anyone?
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 1, 2011 12:50:13 GMT 1
OOPS that's backfired for you hasn't it? Terribly sorry to p**s on your chips! ;D Although speaking of backfiring, in your first post you spoke of sweeping generalisations. Now you're making a sweeping assertion against someone several billion people have a little more respect for.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 1, 2011 12:54:38 GMT 1
OOPS that's backfired for you hasn't it? Terribly sorry to p**s on your chips! ;D Although speaking of backfiring, in your first post you spoke of sweeping generalisations. Now you're making a sweeping assertion against someone several billion people have a little more respect for. And several billion people disagree with those several billion but then thats for another thread.............
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2011 13:01:52 GMT 1
The reason you dont have to tell the world you are straight is the reason gay people have to come out. And sports people and other famous people coming out makes it more socially accpetable for younger kids to do so. Fine, not 'ashamed' but still 'not happy', why the hell should sexual persuasion make any difference?! I don't have a son But I'd be pretty annoyed if I had and this steve Davis was his idol Forgive me for being traditional bit I'd want my son to be straight and not feel that he should at least find out what 'gay' is like or become gay as his hero is Kids do copy sportsmen
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Post by bananafeet on Mar 1, 2011 13:07:09 GMT 1
OOPS that's backfired for you hasn't it? Terribly sorry to p**s on your chips! ;D Although speaking of backfiring, in your first post you spoke of sweeping generalisations. Now you're making a sweeping assertion against someone several billion people have a little more respect for. Well just to clarify the issue, give us the christian view on homosexuality and we'll all shut up uliar
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 13:11:10 GMT 1
It's these sort of opinions that make it very difficult for kids to come out! Which is why it is so important that people like Steve Davis come out and show that it is acceptable
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 13:11:35 GMT 1
I don't think people grow up to be gay or choose to be gay Pilch, idols or otherwise!
Rather an odd comment to make?
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Mar 1, 2011 13:21:15 GMT 1
Not for the first time will he have bent down and taken 1 from behind.
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Post by Dan F on Mar 1, 2011 13:47:57 GMT 1
I'm off to see Frankenstein at the National Theatre a week on Saturday. Apparently, one of the stars alternate a role where they walk around starkers for twenty minutes - hope there are no gayers in the audience, they might have a look.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Mar 1, 2011 14:21:01 GMT 1
Maybe I should come put and announce I'm a sex starved straight bloke looking for a bit of no strings fun now I've done it My inbox will be on fire this afternoon Well maybe not PM'd
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Post by venceremos on Mar 1, 2011 15:30:02 GMT 1
The reason you dont have to tell the world you are straight is the reason gay people have to come out. And sports people and other famous people coming out makes it more socially accpetable for younger kids to do so. Fine, not 'ashamed' but still 'not happy', why the hell should sexual persuasion make any difference?! I don't have a son But I'd be pretty annoyed if I had and this steve Davis was his idol Forgive me for being traditional bit I'd want my son to be straight and not feel that he should at least find out what 'gay' is like or become gay as his hero is Kids do copy sportsmen Your posts on this thread are getting weirder than onthetrain's. He said he liked Freddie Mercury and Elton John but he doesn't seem to have copied their sexuality. I've always liked Marvin Gaye - we were both straight but I could never make myself black. The fact that you'd be annoyed by your son admiring a gay sportsman is exactly why it's important for people like Davies to come out. Imagine being in your imaginary son's position; your dad's annoyed by who you choose to like and wants you to be straight. If you do happen to be gay, is he going to be on your side? Are you going to come out, are you going to feel guilty, are you going to keep your true self hidden until he's dead and gone ....? And some people still think coming out is just about getting publicity. Or, God help us, that it's not necessary because straight people never do it.
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Post by Dale on Mar 1, 2011 15:36:48 GMT 1
As he pointed out he wouldn't have done this if Gareth Thomas hadn't come out, and hopefully Steve coming out will lead to more, maybe even a footballer one day!! I think Justin Fashanu is the sole example why no footballer should ever 'come out' again! Football has and always will have a 'macho' image and whilst I acknowledge there are probably many gay players and supporters out there, I dont think it would do anyone any favours if one player suddenly decided to 'come out'.
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Post by dachshund on Mar 1, 2011 15:40:06 GMT 1
OOPS that's backfired for you hasn't it? Terribly sorry to p**s on your chips! ;D Although speaking of backfiring, in your first post you spoke of sweeping generalisations. Now you're making a sweeping assertion against someone several billion people have a little more respect for. Who is he making a 'sweeping assertion' against?
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Post by venceremos on Mar 1, 2011 15:43:20 GMT 1
As he pointed out he wouldn't have done this if Gareth Thomas hadn't come out, and hopefully Steve coming out will lead to more, maybe even a footballer one day!! I think Justin Fashanu is the sole example why no footballer should ever 'come out' again! football has and always will have a 'macho' image and whilst I acknowledge there are probably many gay players and supporters out there, I dont think it would do anyone any favours if one player suddenly decided to 'come out'. Football hasn't, and never will have, as macho an image as rugby league. Gareth Thomas doesn't seem to have a problem playing RL and nor do the fans. Some Castleford fans were abusive in his first away game and other Cas fans reported them. Club fined, supporters banned. Been pretty quiet on that score since then. I suspect there are a lot of footballers slightly less moronic than seems to be the common perception. Evolution will take care of the neanderthals in time but only if gay footballers begin to be honest. That takes courage.
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Post by Hippo on Mar 1, 2011 15:59:26 GMT 1
As he pointed out he wouldn't have done this if Gareth Thomas hadn't come out, and hopefully Steve coming out will lead to more, maybe even a footballer one day!! I think Justin Fashanu is the sole example why no footballer should ever 'come out' again! football has and always will have a 'macho' image and whilst I acknowledge there are probably many gay players and supporters out there, I dont think it would do anyone any favours if one player suddenly decided to 'come out'. I don't agree. The more players come out, the less the stigma, to the point where people no longer need to take the step of formally 'coming out', because it's generally accepted (there'll always be a few who don't, but ya know). Davies is front page news because so few take this step, in the same way it was 'news' when Everton signed their first black player (in the nineties) - too young to remember the eighties, but i imagine this was the same when the first black players were playing. The abuse they then didn't mean black people should no longer play football, it meant attitudes needed to change. Ditto here.
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Post by jaytee on Mar 1, 2011 16:09:02 GMT 1
We'll be asking people with big noses to come out next.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 1, 2011 16:24:49 GMT 1
The question of why gay people feel they have to 'come out' has been asked, which was the point of my little story earlier in the thread.
Among the main topics of conversation among men especially younger ones, is are relationships (meaning women) and social life - usually involving women.
How do gay men deal with these situations honestly and without evasion unless they come out? The man I wrote about told me he was gay because I was asking about his children.
In the case of Steve Davies, what was he supposed to say to his team mates about his lack of a female partner when the WAGs joined the touring team? Honesty is the only way to deal with the situation.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2011 17:02:00 GMT 1
I don't have a son But I'd be pretty annoyed if I had and this steve Davis was his idol Forgive me for being traditional bit I'd want my son to be straight and not feel that he should at least find out what 'gay' is like or become gay as his hero is Kids do copy sportsmen Your posts on this thread are getting weirder than onthetrain's. He said he liked Freddie Mercury and Elton John but he doesn't seem to have copied their sexuality. I've always liked Marvin Gaye - we were both straight but I could never make myself black. The fact that you'd be annoyed by your son admiring a gay sportsman is exactly why it's important for people like Davies to come out. Imagine being in your imaginary son's position; your dad's annoyed by who you choose to like and wants you to be straight. If you do happen to be gay, is he going to be on your side? Are you going to come out, are you going to feel guilty, are you going to keep your true self hidden until he's dead and gone ....? And some people still think coming out is just about getting publicity. Or, God help us, that it's not necessary because straight people never do it. I went to see queen twice I'm going to see Elton john I was gutted when I found out about Freddie Have often wondered why As for Elton I cringed at seeing and hearing about his wedding Totally blanked it out I love both their music, I don't have worry about what they get up to privately I'll be honest, I'm confused with the whole gay issue I'm not exactly sure I think it should be legal It's not in certain countries Just goes to show how confusing the subject it I don't have to respect Davies at all I'm entitled to an opinion It's my own opinion can I demand respect for it in the same way Davis has ?
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Post by jaytee on Mar 1, 2011 17:23:15 GMT 1
I don't agree with you on this one, Pilch, But you have every right to your opinion. So does Dan.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 17:43:22 GMT 1
I think Justin Fashanu is the sole example why no footballer should ever 'come out' again! football has and always will have a 'macho' image and whilst I acknowledge there are probably many gay players and supporters out there, I dont think it would do anyone any favours if one player suddenly decided to 'come out'. I don't agree. The more players come out, the less the stigma, to the point where people no longer need to take the step of formally 'coming out', because it's generally accepted (there'll always be a few who don't, but ya know). Davies is front page news because so few take this step, in the same way it was 'news' when Everton signed their first black player (in the nineties) - too young to remember the eighties, but i imagine this was the same when the first black players were playing. The abuse they then didn't mean black people should no longer play football, it meant attitudes needed to change. Ditto here. Completely Agree. Don't really follow Rugby but from what i've read it hasn't been too bad at all. Society has moved on since Justin Fashanu, it is time Football does too, and hopefully that can be pushed on by Player(s) coming out publcially
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Post by Dale on Mar 1, 2011 17:50:42 GMT 1
I don't agree. The more players come out, the less the stigma, to the point where people no longer need to take the step of formally 'coming out', because it's generally accepted (there'll always be a few who don't, but ya know). Davies is front page news because so few take this step, in the same way it was 'news' when Everton signed their first black player (in the nineties) - too young to remember the eighties, but i imagine this was the same when the first black players were playing. The abuse they then didn't mean black people should no longer play football, it meant attitudes needed to change. Ditto here. Completely Agree. Don't really follow Rugby but from what i've read it hasn't been too bad at all. Society has moved on since Justin Fashanu, it is time football does too, and hopefully that can be pushed on by Player(s) coming out publcially If a top Premier League player 'comes out' tomorrow then good on him, my only fears is that anyone who did 'come out' as being gay would get some horrendous stick from the crowd, a point was raised about a small group of Castleford fans giving Gareth Thomas some abuse but IMO football crowds are much more harsh than rugby crowds, Leeds fans think nothing of singing about the Munich disaster and a small number of United fans still sing about Hillsborough, so singing homophobic songs wont bother the idiots who sing tasteless stuff like that.
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Post by dachshund on Mar 1, 2011 17:55:06 GMT 1
Your posts on this thread are getting weirder than onthetrain's. He said he liked Freddie Mercury and Elton John but he doesn't seem to have copied their sexuality. I've always liked Marvin Gaye - we were both straight but I could never make myself black. The fact that you'd be annoyed by your son admiring a gay sportsman is exactly why it's important for people like Davies to come out. Imagine being in your imaginary son's position; your dad's annoyed by who you choose to like and wants you to be straight. If you do happen to be gay, is he going to be on your side? Are you going to come out, are you going to feel guilty, are you going to keep your true self hidden until he's dead and gone ....? And some people still think coming out is just about getting publicity. Or, God help us, that it's not necessary because straight people never do it. I went to see queen twice I'm going to see Elton john I was gutted when I found out about Freddie Have often wondered why As for Elton I cringed at seeing and hearing about his wedding Totally blanked it out I love both their music, I don't have worry about what they get up to privately I'll be honest, I'm confused with the whole gay issue I'm not exactly sure I think it should be legal It's not in certain countries Just goes to show how confusing the subject it I don't have to respect Davies at all I'm entitled to an opinion It's my own opinion can I demand respect for it in the same way Davis has ? Is this a strange extended joke in the form of some sort of concept poem?
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Mar 1, 2011 18:12:54 GMT 1
Completely Agree. Don't really follow Rugby but from what i've read it hasn't been too bad at all. Society has moved on since Justin Fashanu, it is time football does too, and hopefully that can be pushed on by Player(s) coming out publcially If a top Premier League player 'comes out' tomorrow then good on him, my only fears is that anyone who did 'come out' as being gay would get some horrendous stick from the crowd, a point was raised about a small group of Castleford fans giving Gareth Thomas some abuse but IMO football crowds are much more harsh than rugby crowds, Leeds fans think nothing of singing about the Munich disaster and a small number of United fans still sing about Hillsborough, so singing homophobic songs wont bother the idiots who sing tasteless stuff like that. I guess you may be right. Certainly whoever did come out would have to have thick skin. they would get a hell of a lot of support and protection too i'm sure. Think it would be a lot better if the player was from a top Prem side because then it may be harder for the abuse to be ignored. We will see i suppose
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Post by Pilch on Mar 1, 2011 18:39:36 GMT 1
I went to see queen twice I'm going to see Elton john I was gutted when I found out about Freddie Have often wondered why As for Elton I cringed at seeing and hearing about his wedding Totally blanked it out I love both their music, I don't have worry about what they get up to privately I'll be honest, I'm confused with the whole gay issue I'm not exactly sure I think it should be legal It's not in certain countries Just goes to show how confusing the subject it I don't have to respect Davies at all I'm entitled to an opinion It's my own opinion can I demand respect for it in the same way Davis has ? Is this a strange extended joke in the form of some sort of concept poem? it wasnt meant to be maybe i'll record it and realise it on itunes ;-) anyone i'm off to the not gay anymore meadow
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