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Post by onthetrain92 on Feb 28, 2011 15:27:38 GMT 1
I will alter that last sentence to Some people don't like gay people rather than a lot. I don't mind gay people but I would feel uncomfortable getting changed next to somebody that is gay. A private cubicle system would imporve this rather than an open changing room. Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that within changing rooms, there should be private cubicles for gay men and women? Or that all changing rooms should be replaced with individual changing cubicles? I was saying that for all changing rooms male and female. That way it wouldn't bother me at all. I guess if that happened it might spoil your privileges. It wouldn't bother me as I can't go in the ladies changing rooms.
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 15:27:58 GMT 1
I'm not sure why someone has to announce that they are gay Seems a bit like attention seeking to me What do they hope to achieve from it ? How about some closure from the internal turmoil they've been sitting on? How about being able to just be upfront and honest about things, and being able to get on with their lives and careers and be a part of things? (for example Steve Davies' issue raised in the article about previously feeling out of touch when on longer tours abroad with the England Cricketers, because of him hiding who he was)
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 15:29:28 GMT 1
Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that within changing rooms, there should be private cubicles for gay men and women? Or that all changing rooms should be replaced with individual changing cubicles? I was saying that for all changing rooms male and female. That way it wouldn't bother me at all. I guess if that happened it might spoil your privileges. It wouldn't bother me as I can't go in the ladies changing rooms. TRUST me when I say Dan, that seeing you in a changing room, naked or not, would most definitely NOT be classed as a privilege for me.
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Post by mrbunny on Feb 28, 2011 15:29:48 GMT 1
Fair play to him for coming out and I hope it does not make any difference at all to his career as a sports man, it should not make the blindest bit of difference. That said I am not quite sure onthetrain deserves all of the stick he is getting. The question regarding shared facilities is perfectly logical however clumsily expressed. Thought more of you than that, Throbs. You've shared a changing room with me in the past - did you feel uncomfortable at any time? I find it ludicrous that the main concern here is being suggested on the basis that the straight men here assume that because someone is homosexual, they're automatically going to be judging and eyeing up every other male around them. It's a ridiculous notion, and one that really annoys me! (Without mentioning that these are possibly the same people who buy the Daily Star and Daily Sun and ogle, leer at and objectify women when on a night out - but that's okay, because they're only women, and that's acceptable in society, right?) Jesus wept. Agree with you MR B The thing is as well the people who will shout abuse at a gay sportsman from the stand /terracing are the same people who will go home and put on a cd by by a gay artist or watch a tv programme starring a gay actor/host. Hypocritical to say the least.
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Post by shrewsburyshrew on Feb 28, 2011 15:33:06 GMT 1
Interesting. Oh wait, that's the other one. For his sake I hope people read the whole story when they see this or there could be a lot of bent cue jokes coming his way... I too am a bit worried he may become the butt of quite a few jokes
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Post by onthetrain92 on Feb 28, 2011 15:37:22 GMT 1
Whats a CD or artist got to with getting changed int he changing room. Freddie Mercury was an awesome singer one of the best vocalists ever. Elton John brilliant. I have no problem with gay people apart from I would when changing next to one. Now the fact of the matter is if you are gay you fancy men, you will look at men for that reason. I fancy women I will look at women for that reason. I am not allowed to change with women for that reason, because i will look at them and may get excited seeing them naked as its only natural. Out of 20+ women on a womens football team I'm sure there would be more than a fair few that I would take a shining to if seen naked. Now if you fancy men and are gay that is likely to be exactly the same scenario!
End of story.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 28, 2011 15:38:21 GMT 1
Just my opinion but I reckon he will feel even more out of touch now I would be very surprised if the majority of his team mates are thrilled by the news That's just the way life is, it won't always be but it is at the moment Not as bad as it used to be though
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 15:42:22 GMT 1
Just out of interest, the Football Association were not so long ago looking with the GFSN for a LGBT Liason Officer to represent each Football League Club on a voluntary basis as part of their Kick Homophobia Out Of Football campaign.
How many people on this messageboard would be against such a person working alongside or at Town, and potentially raising the clubs profile with the local LGBT population?
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Post by onthetrain92 on Feb 28, 2011 15:46:12 GMT 1
Just out of interest, the football Association were not so long ago looking with the GFSN for a LGBT Liason Officer to represent each football League Club on a voluntary basis as part of their Kick Homophobia Out Of football campaign. How many people on this messageboard would be against such a person working alongside or at Town, and potentially raising the clubs profile with the local LGBT population? Is it my fault I would feel uncomfortable changing next to a person that is gay? No. Is it your fault you are gay? No So such things need to be addressed as its not fair on either of us. I have no problem with you being gay.
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 15:50:35 GMT 1
Just out of interest, the football Association were not so long ago looking with the GFSN for a LGBT Liason Officer to represent each football League Club on a voluntary basis as part of their Kick Homophobia Out Of football campaign. How many people on this messageboard would be against such a person working alongside or at Town, and potentially raising the clubs profile with the local LGBT population? Is it my fault I would feel uncomfortable changing next to a person that is gay? No. Is it your fault you are gay? No So such things need to be addressed as its not fair on either of us. I have no problem with you being gay. Don't really follow your reply? The question I asked wasn't to you Dan, it was a general question.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 16:02:37 GMT 1
Why does Mr. Brightside feel it appropriate to start getting personal? Undermines his credibility somewhat. Would you call Dan a 'dickhead' to his face?
My personal opinion is that the gay community is unnecessarily militant. I don't think it's possible for gays to be any more equal than they already are. They are already soundly protected by the law (woe betide you if you discriminate) and heavily represented in the media.
My personal stance is that I have no problem with gays, but can understand why some people find the whole 'camp' thing a little grating.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Feb 28, 2011 16:02:37 GMT 1
Is it my fault I would feel uncomfortable changing next to a person that is gay? No. Is it your fault you are gay? No So such things need to be addressed as its not fair on either of us. I have no problem with you being gay. Don't really follow your reply? The question I asked wasn't to you Dan, it was a general question. Ok Is it a straight persons fault they would feel uncomfortable changing next to a person that is gay? No. Is it the other persons fault they are gay? No So such things need to be addressed in society if everyone who is gay is to come out and for it to be excepted as much as it possibly can.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 28, 2011 16:10:34 GMT 1
Thought more of you than that, Throbs. You've shared a changing room with me in the past - did you feel uncomfortable at any time? Of course I did not feel uncomfortable. It has never been an issue with me, and you know that! Plus I'd rather you be in my changing room as that means you're on my team, cos I hate playing against you. I had a nice chat to your boyfriend too Absolutely no offence intended and I apologise if I caused any. My only point was I can see the logic of where onthetrain is coming from on the point of getting changed. It is not a case of thinking because someone is gay that they are suddenly going to pounce or anything crazy like that; he has not said that at any point has he? The point he is getting at works both ways; are there also homosexuals who feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a bunch of other guys? Would they feel like I would if I got changed in front of a women's team? That is the logical extension isn't it? The bit he can't get his head around. Just like mixed gender saunas on foreign holidays, not everyone is comfortable with it, even though many people don't mind. I do think he should at least be able to at least raise the point without being flamed. In one sense at least he has said exactly where he is coming from, rather than the silent majority who would never say anything public but then have a private joke behind someone's back.
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Post by captainpike on Feb 28, 2011 16:12:32 GMT 1
I'm not sure why someone has to announce that they are gay Seems a bit like attention seeking to me What do they hope to achieve from it ? In future hopefully people coming out won't be news at all, but at the moment - no matter what people like to think - homophobia is still rife in society. People therefore hide their sexuality from people - family, friends, workmates - and this causes low self esteem, depression etc. Therefore when they decide to take the very brave decision to not hide any more it becomes a big thing...and if you are in the public eye then it is going to make news (for right or wrong). So if it is going to make the news via salacious gossip / word of mouth you may as well make a formal announcement. This also gives that person the opportunity to make a stand and say 'this is what I am, there is nothing wrong with it and hopefully by coming out publicly I can help move society's acceptance forward'.
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 16:14:20 GMT 1
Why does Mr. Brightside feel it appropriate to start getting personal? Undermines his credibility somewhat. Would you call Dan a 'dickhead' to his face? My personal opinion is that the gay community is unnecessarily militant. I don't think it's possible for gays to be any more equal than they already are. They are already soundly protected by the law (woe betide you if you discriminate) and heavily represented in the media. My personal stance is that I have no problem with gays, but can understand why some people find the whole 'camp' thing a little grating. Why do I feel it appropriate? Because it is personal to me. How do you thing it makes me feel when such sweeping generalisations are made? Every time this topic comes up the same lame (and frankly not amusing) jokes come up, and the same idiotic 'concerns' are raised. And for the record yes, I'd call him a dickhead to his face. It's not the first time I've wanted to, after all. And he's not the only one. I'd say it to anyone else who offended me, or made such assumptions as those previously discussed on this thread.
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Post by Mr Brightside on Feb 28, 2011 16:17:27 GMT 1
Thought more of you than that, Throbs. You've shared a changing room with me in the past - did you feel uncomfortable at any time? Of course I did not feel uncomfortable. It has never been an issue with me, and you know that! Plus I'd rather you be in my changing room as that means you're on my team, cos I hate playing against you. I had a nice chat to your boyfriend too Absolutely no offence intended and I apologise if I caused any. My only point was I can see the logic of where onthetrain is coming from on the point of getting changed. It is not a case of thinking because someone is gay that they are suddenly going to pounce or anything crazy like that; he has not said that at any point has he? The point he is getting at works both ways; are there also homosexuals who feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a bunch of other guys? Would they feel like I would if I got changed in front of a women's team? That is the logical extension isn't it? The bit he can't get his head around. Just like mixed gender saunas on foreign holidays, not everyone is comfortable with it, even though many people don't mind. I do think he should at least be able to at least raise the point without being flamed. In one sense at least he has said exactly where he is coming from, rather than the silent majority who would never say anything public but then have a private joke behind someone's back. Fair point, TBH. I understand what you mean now. Though it doesn't mean I agree necessarily with the points raised. And you had a chat with my partner? Pretty sure I didn't have one at the time! *confused*
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 28, 2011 16:22:29 GMT 1
And you had a chat with my partner? Pretty sure I didn't have one at the time! *confused* oops! Maybe I have got myself mixed up. I am sure the chap I spoke to said he was someone's partner.
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Feb 28, 2011 16:33:52 GMT 1
Will certainly make the batsmen uncomfortable at the crease with him behind them eyeing up their googlies and middle stump.
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Post by captainpike on Feb 28, 2011 16:35:00 GMT 1
I know both straight and gay women who have played for various football and rugby teams and there are apparently quite a high number of lesbians in most teams (not a majority though) and not one of them has ever said it is a problem. They all socialise with each other and when this issue last cropped up I asked them and they (both straight and gay) said it was not even an issue as they'd never discussed it with anyone (ie no-one had felt strongly about it).
I think the thing is that people sexualise the situation. People are therer to play sport - in the case of professional sportsman to do a job - and so that is all they are concerned with.
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Post by jaytee on Feb 28, 2011 16:40:20 GMT 1
I too am a bit worried he may become the butt of quite a few jokes As a practicing lesbian I agree with that. To be fair to Steve, we can now see why he is a weeketkeeper. He has no interest in bowling a maiden over.
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Post by Amsterdammer on Feb 28, 2011 16:42:20 GMT 1
Re the changing rooms. Naked saunas/bathing are pretty common on the continent and it doesn't seem to be an issue. As there are many people who's sexuality you don't know, anyone who has a problem changing next to gay people will always have a problem. I don't see what the difference is if you know/don't know. I was hoping the Davies story would slip under the radar which would suggest things are moving in the right direction. It seems though that some will always roll out a gag no matter what the topic.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 28, 2011 17:33:29 GMT 1
I'm not sure why someone has to announce that they are gay Seems a bit like attention seeking to me A couple of years ago I worked with an 18 stone guy who was prop forward for a local rugby team. He said he came out because he was tired of his team mates trying to fix him up with women on nights out and was fed up with making excuses for not being interested. The funny thing was that his mates thought he didn't have a girlfriend because he was ugly, they had no idea he was gay.
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Post by Ned on Feb 28, 2011 17:43:06 GMT 1
Dan, you should be humiliated by your comments.
Good luck to Steve.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Feb 28, 2011 18:37:44 GMT 1
Christ alive, i'm glad i didn't log on earlier, would have made a bad day even worse.
What is clear here, is that unfortunately, it is probably the case that Football fans are on avergae more homophobic than your average cricket fan, why that is is too complicated, but what needs to be addressed, is why are footballers not coming out. As Mr Brightside points out the FA are running a scheme, similair to Kick it Out regarding homophobia in football. I wish this was given more funding and backing from football clubs and players and that homophobic abuse was treated in the same way as other discrimination. Because it clearly isnt at the moment. As someone pointed out on twitter, its great that Steve Davies has come out, but isn't it amazing that it is still front page news, that one person, who most people don't give two hoots about, happens to find men attractive. The responses on this sort of thread continue to amaze me. Makes me want to leave this bloody country
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Post by timgallon on Feb 28, 2011 18:41:17 GMT 1
Someone asked me the other day what i thought of gay men. I replied "They're just f**king a**eholes" Joking aside, the question Id like to ask is it easier these days to come out and say your gay rather than admit to be being homophobic?
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Post by jaytee on Feb 28, 2011 18:41:40 GMT 1
I'm sure it's an issue for the guy personally, but I don't think most of us care whether he is or not.
As for the changing in the same room, as I played both Rugby Union and Footy most weekends, I expect there were gay blokes in the shower with me. I hadn't really thought about it. That might be because I've socialised with a few gay men. I'm perfectly at home in their company. Dan isn't, but he's entitled to his view. I haven't seen where he's called them names.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 28, 2011 18:48:42 GMT 1
its dan thats been called name
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Post by Stewie Shrew on Feb 28, 2011 18:51:52 GMT 1
Me and my missus are off out after her birthday meal on saturday and we will probably meet a couple of mates who are gay and end up at a gay bar in wolves, fancy coming along Dan? maybe not aye
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Post by Pilch on Feb 28, 2011 18:54:06 GMT 1
i'm unisex ask my barber
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Post by mrbunny on Feb 28, 2011 18:56:02 GMT 1
According to the Abigail Edwards thread it is unsexed.
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