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Post by davycrockett on Apr 28, 2024 12:06:26 GMT 1
Alternatively those who defend him/the role will say fans need to be patient, give it a chance, you're fickle, etc. And then if he does go then it's not a problem and our illustrious leader shouldn't be questioned for having another change of heart. Of course this is all speculation so it may be business as usual I say give it a chance because the last time we allowed the manager and CEO to oversee all aspects of the club they almost sunk the ship , where were the "its not working" brigade then ?...asleep in a dream complacency land thats where, only appearing now and then to suggest we spend more money looking around the history of football it seems many clubs only sell up when they become so debt ridden they almost have to be given away after the club teeters on the brink of extinction and disaster, and has dropped like a stone, the administrators come in and debts get written off, local business's all suffer as a result, a new guy eventually comes in , fans breathe a sigh of relief, realise the grass is not always greener on the other side and have to lower their expectations quite a lot I think we are about to enter the rat race of becoming a club in debt , and all the problems that go with it if you can see it , dont worry, I'll remind you when it does But surely it’s the 25 plus years of failing to attract investors / partners who stick around that’s the problem? A multitude of Director's and potential investors who it seems were only after one thing, to get one over Roland. As no ones stuck around in the 25years, you have to as yourself why? In fairness RW has managed to get to where we are without debt through his careful control of finances, things have changed now, but that’s as much down to the current state of Football inflation and outside influences like Covid and energy costs as 1 seasons ‘mismanagement’ of funds. We are where we are with insufficient income to cover outgoings if we go with a competitive squad. We’ve changed the club structure again after a quick delve into COO’s and a Football Board back to a CEO so hopefully Liam can turn it round but it’s a tall order with a Board of just two and an eager and energetic CEO. Something else has to change and quickly to avoid the ‘debt rat race’ you talk about. Heard there were people present yesterday who specialise in selling clubs so 🤞
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2024 12:13:45 GMT 1
Wouldn’t be the first person to be working with or for Roland to get out fairly promptly.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 28, 2024 12:15:44 GMT 1
A lot has changed in the last 6 months. Moore was brought in at a time we needed some leadership over a head coach, now we have a manger and decent assistant who know the leagues and recruitment I personally feel he isn’t needed and given the financial position it’s another wage we don’t need to be paying. Decent guy but things have changed I guess the counter to that argument is that if Hurst's side struggles at the start of next season and ends up getting sacked, we are then right back to square one in having to look for a new manager and potentially the whole recruitment strategy changes again. If Moore goes and we don't appoint an new Director of Football we are very reliant on Hurst getting it right to be successful. I thought the point of the Director of Football role was to keep that overall consistancy in recruitment so even if the manager changed, the overall recruitment strategy and long term direction of the club stayed the same. To change the set up again after 12 months (if indeed thats whats happening) would set off a few alarms for me that the overall strategy of the club remains uncertain and seems to blow in whatever direction the wind seems to set it each season
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 12:17:11 GMT 1
I say give it a chance because the last time we allowed the manager and CEO to oversee all aspects of the club they almost sunk the ship , where were the "its not working" brigade then ?...asleep in a dream complacency land thats where, only appearing now and then to suggest we spend more money looking around the history of football it seems many clubs only sell up when they become so debt ridden they almost have to be given away after the club teeters on the brink of extinction and disaster, and has dropped like a stone, the administrators come in and debts get written off, local business's all suffer as a result, a new guy eventually comes in , fans breathe a sigh of relief, realise the grass is not always greener on the other side and have to lower their expectations quite a lot I think we are about to enter the rat race of becoming a club in debt , and all the problems that go with it if you can see it , dont worry, I'll remind you when it does But surely it’s the 25 plus years of failing to attract investors / partners who stick around that’s the problem? A multitude of Director's and potential investors who it seems were only after one thing, to get one over Roland. As no ones stuck around in the 25years, you have to as yourself why? In fairness RW has managed to get to where we are without debt through his careful control of finances, things have changed now, but that’s as much down to the current state of Football inflation and outside influences like Covid and energy costs as 1 seasons ‘mismanagement’ of funds. We are where we are with insufficient income to cover outgoings if we go with a competitive squad. We’ve changed the club structure again after a quick delve into COO’s and a Football Board back to a CEO so hopefully Liam can turn it round but it’s a tall order with a Board of just two and an eager and energetic CEO. Something else has to change and quickly to avoid the ‘debt rat race’ you talk about. Heard there were people present yesterday who specialise in selling clubs so 🤞 give me about 4 weeks and I'll drag up a couple of thousand posts where our fans jump up and down in anger at other clubs spending beyond their means, then laughing at them when it all comes tumbling down, and then their fans all blame the chairman, in the meantime maybe someone could draw up a list of all the similar clubs to us at the point where our chairman over who are now looking down at us
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 28, 2024 13:19:31 GMT 1
My opinion is that the football side of managing a professional club has got too complex to be run on the traditional manager as dictator model and the DoF/coach setup will become the norm.
Whether MM is the right man for the job I’m not qualified to say, but I’m not as optimistic as most about Hurst/Doig given their record over the past few years.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 28, 2024 13:33:39 GMT 1
Wouldn’t be the first person to be working with or for Roland to get out fairly promptly. A rumour on another club's fan site that Mr Moore might go back there and it's interpreted that it's to do with not getting on with Roland? Odd that as it's many of our fans who have done their best to make sure Moore doesn't feel wanted.
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Post by tarporleyblue on Apr 28, 2024 13:46:08 GMT 1
My opinion is that the football side of managing a professional club has got too complex to be run on the traditional manager as dictator model and the DoF/coach setup will become the norm. Whether MM is the right man for the job I’m not qualified to say, but I’m not as optimistic as most about Hurst/Doig given their record over the past few years. I agree on both points, especially the latter. Hurst & Doig will have some credit in the bank for keeping us up, just, but that will soon fade if next season proves to be worse than this one.
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Post by vladimir on Apr 28, 2024 13:50:05 GMT 1
Wouldn’t be the first person to be working with or for Roland to get out fairly promptly. A rumour on another club's fan site that Mr Moore might go back there and it's interpreted that it's to do with not getting on with Roland? Odd that as it's many of our fans who have done their best to make sure Moore doesn't feel wanted. Besides the chanting at the Stevenage game, where have fans " done their best" to make sure he doesn't feel wanted? I don't believe I've seen any protests, banners, planes trailing "**** off Moore" banners flying around , burning effigies at all.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 28, 2024 13:52:23 GMT 1
If Moore does leave then the suggestion he does because the fans haven't been welcoming is utterly laughable.
It's our fault too that Mata wasn't up to scratch for league one.
Or that Hurst basically ditched all of his signings in order to improve us.
We've also been blamed for new investment not wanting to buy the club due to the negativity.
I'm always amazed at what the fans can actually be blamed for considering we don't make any decisions and don't hold any of the levers of power.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 13:58:17 GMT 1
A rumour on another club's fan site that Mr Moore might go back there and it's interpreted that it's to do with not getting on with Roland? Odd that as it's many of our fans who have done their best to make sure Moore doesn't feel wanted. Besides the chanting at the Stevenage game, where have fans " done their best" to make sure he doesn't feel wanted? I don't believe I've seen any protests, banners, planes trailing "**** off Moore" banners flying around , burning effigies at all. I didn't make many away games but there were loud renditions of Micky Moore get out of our club several times at Blackpool
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Post by dachshund on Apr 28, 2024 14:03:15 GMT 1
Moore used his first major public interview to distance himself from the signings that have been made and to disassociate himself from any accountability for our poor performance.
Either i) he’s not been allowed to do the job he came in to do or ii) he’s a coward throwing an inexperienced manager under the bus.
In either case he should go.
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Post by tarporleyblue on Apr 28, 2024 14:04:32 GMT 1
A lot has changed in the last 6 months. Moore was brought in at a time we needed some leadership over a head coach, now we have a manger and decent assistant who know the leagues and recruitment I personally feel he isn’t needed and given the financial position it’s another wage we don’t need to be paying. Decent guy but things have changed As you say, a lot has changed over the last 6 months but whether or not we now have a sense of stability at the club remains to be seen. The end of season review and AGM feedback is awaited and that may tell us something very different. If Moore was to go imminently then he would have been in post for less than 12 months, in a role that was brand new to the Chairman and the club. If the experiment of having a Director of Football is thrown out with the bath water then it would be a very short sighted decision by the Chairman and a further indication of a lack of strategic thinking.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 28, 2024 14:04:50 GMT 1
If Moore does leave then the suggestion he does because the fans haven't been welcoming is utterly laughable. It's our fault too that Mata wasn't up to scratch for league one. Or that Hurst basically ditched all of his signings in order to improve us. We've also been blamed for new investment not wanting to buy the club due to the negativity. I'm always amazed at what the fans can actually be blamed for considering we don't make any decisions and don't hold any of the levers of power. That doesn't even deserve a reply.
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Post by dachshund on Apr 28, 2024 14:09:18 GMT 1
A lot has changed in the last 6 months. Moore was brought in at a time we needed some leadership over a head coach, now we have a manger and decent assistant who know the leagues and recruitment I personally feel he isn’t needed and given the financial position it’s another wage we don’t need to be paying. Decent guy but things have changed As you say, a lot has changed over the last 6 months but whether or not we now have a sense of stability at the club remains to be seen. The end of season review and AGM feedback is awaited and that may tell us something very different. If Moore was to go imminently then he would have been in post for less than 12 months, in a role that was brand new to the Chairman and the club. If the experiment of having a Director of Football is thrown out with the bath water then it would be a very short sighted decision by the Chairman and a further indication of a lack of strategic thinking. I don’t think moving on from Moore and moving on from the DoF role are necessarily the same thing. The principles of the role are good, his record is not.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2024 14:13:50 GMT 1
If Moore does leave then the suggestion he does because the fans haven't been welcoming is utterly laughable. It's our fault too that Mata wasn't up to scratch for league one. Or that Hurst basically ditched all of his signings in order to improve us. We've also been blamed for new investment not wanting to buy the club due to the negativity. I'm always amazed at what the fans can actually be blamed for considering we don't make any decisions and don't hold any of the levers of power. Spot on, always gives a good laugh when the ‘it’s the fans fault’ line comes out.
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 28, 2024 14:14:12 GMT 1
But surely it’s the 25 plus years of failing to attract investors / partners who stick around that’s the problem? A multitude of Director's and potential investors who it seems were only after one thing, to get one over Roland. As no ones stuck around in the 25years, you have to as yourself why? In fairness RW has managed to get to where we are without debt through his careful control of finances, things have changed now, but that’s as much down to the current state of Football inflation and outside influences like Covid and energy costs as 1 seasons ‘mismanagement’ of funds. We are where we are with insufficient income to cover outgoings if we go with a competitive squad. We’ve changed the club structure again after a quick delve into COO’s and a Football Board back to a CEO so hopefully Liam can turn it round but it’s a tall order with a Board of just two and an eager and energetic CEO. Something else has to change and quickly to avoid the ‘debt rat race’ you talk about. Heard there were people present yesterday who specialise in selling clubs so 🤞 give me about 4 weeks and I'll drag up a couple of thousand posts where our fans jump up and down in anger at other clubs spending beyond their means, then laughing at them when it all comes tumbling down, and then their fans all blame the chairman, in the meantime maybe someone could draw up a list of all the similar clubs to us at the point where our chairman over who are now looking down at us Don’t bother, I didn’t mention spending beyond our means, maybe try replying to my post regarding RW and business relationships built up over the last 25 years
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 14:23:41 GMT 1
give me about 4 weeks and I'll drag up a couple of thousand posts where our fans jump up and down in anger at other clubs spending beyond their means, then laughing at them when it all comes tumbling down, and then their fans all blame the chairman, in the meantime maybe someone could draw up a list of all the similar clubs to us at the point where our chairman over who are now looking down at us Don’t bother, I didn’t mention spending beyond our means, maybe try replying to my post regarding RW and business relationships built up over the last 25 years I did , I just cut out the middle man and jumped right into the solution for fans who want it and want it now
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Post by hectord0g137 on Apr 28, 2024 14:23:44 GMT 1
The way this thread is going I am depressed about next season before it starts. Crikey the majority on here,notable exceptions apart, are beyond doom mongering. I am looking for rose tinted spectacles to see me through the close season and in Roland I trust....despite the 🐍
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 28, 2024 14:25:36 GMT 1
Don’t bother, I didn’t mention spending beyond our means, maybe try replying to my post regarding RW and business relationships built up over the last 25 years I did , I just cut out the middle man and jumped right into the solution for fans who want it and want it now You’ve avoided it again 😅
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 14:29:40 GMT 1
I did , I just cut out the middle man and jumped right into the solution for fans who want it and want it now You’ve avoided it again 😅 Not sure what you want from me , I give up , Tell me the correct answer
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 28, 2024 14:45:14 GMT 1
If Moore does leave then the suggestion he does because the fans haven't been welcoming is utterly laughable. It's our fault too that Mata wasn't up to scratch for league one. Or that Hurst basically ditched all of his signings in order to improve us. We've also been blamed for new investment not wanting to buy the club due to the negativity. I'm always amazed at what the fans can actually be blamed for considering we don't make any decisions and don't hold any of the levers of power. Spot on, always gives a good laugh when the ‘it’s the fans fault’ line comes out. So you two can't see the difference it might make to a person's desicion to leave the DofF role at a club and take up any DofF offer back with your old club when the fan's attitude of the club you gave 5 years service to is along the lines of '"Hearing rumours we might be about to appoint a Director of Football and it's a face we all know. Unsure how that fits with keep Clarke for next season but I believe he worked with one at Port Vale and Bristol Rovers. Hopefully a bit of positive news on a really low day for the club" (Copied off Robins nest forum !!)' Whereas the attitude of the fans at a club you've been less than a year at is along the lines of: Good, I'll give him a lift back.
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 28, 2024 14:50:53 GMT 1
You’ve avoided it again 😅 Not sure what you want from me , I give up , Tell me the correct answer You didn’t have to reply to my first post but chose to change the subject completely to clubs overspending and fans calling for more spending. If you don’t want to answer the post why reply in the first place? It’s quite a simple point I was making about Roland being unable to get people in around him long term.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 15:11:13 GMT 1
Not sure what you want from me , I give up , Tell me the correct answer You didn’t have to reply to my first post but chose to change the subject completely to clubs overspending and fans calling for more spending. If you don’t want to answer the post why reply in the first place? It’s quite a simple point I was making about Roland being unable to get people in around him long term. for the 4th time I tried to answer your question , you kept marking it as incorrect so I gave up , just waiting now for the right answer
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 28, 2024 15:11:37 GMT 1
So it won’t be down to the fans if MM decides to leave but we have been told that the latest appointment of the coach was because RW listened to the fans. It’s all very confusing.
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Post by tarporleyblue on Apr 28, 2024 15:17:17 GMT 1
As you say, a lot has changed over the last 6 months but whether or not we now have a sense of stability at the club remains to be seen. The end of season review and AGM feedback is awaited and that may tell us something very different. If Moore was to go imminently then he would have been in post for less than 12 months, in a role that was brand new to the Chairman and the club. If the experiment of having a Director of Football is thrown out with the bath water then it would be a very short sighted decision by the Chairman and a further indication of a lack of strategic thinking. I don’t think moving on from Moore and moving on from the DoF role are necessarily the same thing. The principles of the role are good, his record is not. It will be interesting as to what happens should Moore leave. Do we appoint another Director of Football or more of an operations manager or spread the load amongst the existing management structure? I don't know the answer by the way!
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2024 15:24:32 GMT 1
Spot on, always gives a good laugh when the ‘it’s the fans fault’ line comes out. So you two can't see the difference it might make to a person's desicion to leave the DofF role at a club and take up any DofF offer back with your old club when the fan's attitude of the club you gave 5 years service to is along the lines of '"Hearing rumours we might be about to appoint a Director of Football and it's a face we all know. Unsure how that fits with keep Clarke for next season but I believe he worked with one at Port Vale and Bristol Rovers. Hopefully a bit of positive news on a really low day for the club" (Copied off Robins nest forum !!)' Whereas the attitude of the fans at a club you've been less than a year at is along the lines of: Good, I'll give him a lift back. If Moore actually has a decision to make and this isn’t just speculation, there’d be a number of factors for him to consider. I’d suggest that working daily for a controlling and over-baring influence who changes the structure on a whim would be more of a consideration than some internet fans correctly thinking that he’s been crap.
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Post by dachshund on Apr 28, 2024 16:20:43 GMT 1
I don’t think moving on from Moore and moving on from the DoF role are necessarily the same thing. The principles of the role are good, his record is not. It will be interesting as to what happens should Moore leave. Do we appoint another Director of Football or more of an operations manager or spread the load amongst the existing management structure? I don't know the answer by the way! An Operations Lead of any quality will set you back 90k plus a year. I’d be in favour of committing to the DoF but get someone with passion and desire, rather than a failed managerial tenure at Barrow or (possibly worse) someone with a connection to the club to use as a selling point but without the required nous.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 28, 2024 20:22:02 GMT 1
Wouldn’t be the first person to be working with or for Roland to get out fairly promptly. Somewhat off topic? The rumour isn't that Mr Moore wants out, it's that his old club want him back.
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Post by servernaside on Apr 28, 2024 20:33:38 GMT 1
Perhaps he would be better at League 2 level.....like many of our players this season in fact.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2024 20:43:02 GMT 1
Perhaps he would be better at League 2 level.....like many of our players this season in fact. I say most of them probably were on league 2 wages too as several already under contract were on championship wages, we keep ignoring the elephant in the room there
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