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Hurst
May 12, 2019 13:41:10 GMT 1
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Post by lancsman on May 12, 2019 13:41:10 GMT 1
There are lots of splits to this thread without many out and out underline state of play.
Let’s start with Hurst. He clearly has a lot to offer but the two things which stand out is integrity and trust both of which are non existent where he is concerned. So getting him back is totally out of the question. On the question of Rickets and his management style. Firstly he talks about rotating players and tiredness. For gods sake this is a league one side not premier or championship side. You play your best team week in week out. As for tiredness, give me a break, any team should be literally fit for purpose, if they are not there are fundamental issues with either players or training methods.........not how many games you’ve played.
Lastly, what the hell is in the minds of the top brass at Salop when appointing a manager. If they gave ambitions to get into the championship then you appoint a seasoned manager to do it. It’s not as if we can’t afford it. Instead we get another wannabe top manager with no management experience only by playing on X Box.Rickets has proved that his team selections an ‘too late’ substitutions are not of the quality needed at this club.
My final sign off is Rickets should go and the Board need to get. Some balls and get someone in to do the job.
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Post by Mortgagehound on May 12, 2019 13:44:15 GMT 1
Has the fat lady already got her tickets for safe standing?
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 13:56:07 GMT 1
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Post by lancsman on May 12, 2019 13:56:07 GMT 1
Nothing like an intelligent response.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 14:02:05 GMT 1
Lanscman.
Literally every football league team rotates their players. Each fl team plays a minimum of 51 games per season. Hurst rotated his team frequently.
If the management lark is so p**s I look forward to watching your career closely.
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Post by Exkeeper on May 12, 2019 14:16:55 GMT 1
There are lots of splits to this thread without many out and out underline state of play. Let’s start with Hurst. He clearly has a lot to offer but the two things which stand out is integrity and trust both of which are non existent where he is concerned. So getting him back is totally out of the question. On the question of Rickets and his management style. Firstly he talks about rotating players and tiredness. For gods sake this is a league one side not premier or championship side. You play your best team week in week out. As for tiredness, give me a break, any team should be literally fit for purpose, if they are not there are fundamental issues with either players or training methods.........not how many games you’ve played. Lastly, what the hell is in the minds of the top brass at Salop when appointing a manager. If they gave ambitions to get into the championship then you appoint a seasoned manager to do it. It’s not as if we can’t afford it. Instead we get another wannabe top manager with no management experience only by playing on X Box.Rickets has proved that his team selections an ‘too late’ substitutions are not of the quality needed at this club. My final sign off is Rickets should go and the Board need to get. Some balls and get someone in to do the job. Luckily you were not advising the Board in ‘79 when a certain rookie called Turner was handed the reins and proceeded to lead us to the title and the promised land.
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Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 16:59:16 GMT 1
Hurst rotated his team frequently. No he didn't, he made very few changes until the last few games when he started to rest players once the playoffs were secured and automatic promotion was almost out of sight. Henderson played every League 1 game when available, the back four changed very little all season apart from when injury forced it, e.e. Junior Brown. The midfield three hardly changed all season, Ogogo, Nolan and Godfrey playing the majority of the games. Similarly with Whalley and Rodman, apart from the odd start for Thomas. The only real rotation Hurst used was between Morris and Payne.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 17:42:29 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 17:42:29 GMT 1
Hurst rotated his team frequently. No he didn't, he made very few changes until the last few games when he started to rest players once the playoffs were secured and automatic promotion was almost out of sight. Henderson played every League 1 game when available, the back four changed very little all season apart from when injury forced it, e.e. Junior Brown. The midfield three hardly changed all season, Ogogo, Nolan and Godfrey playing the majority of the games. Similarly with Whalley and Rodman, apart from the odd start for Thomas. The only real rotation Hurst used was between Morris and Payne. Right. Just 4 players started more than 40 games. Changes were minimal but were made. He regularly switched between left backs, wingers, and mids and the forwards as you mentioned all throughout the season.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 17:44:15 GMT 1
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 17:44:15 GMT 1
If you class that as frequent rotation fair enough, I don't.
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Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 17:49:10 GMT 1
Hurst rotated his team frequently. No he didn't, he made very few changes until the last few games when he started to rest players once the playoffs were secured and automatic promotion was almost out of sight. Henderson played every League 1 game when available, the back four changed very little all season apart from when injury forced it, e.e. Junior Brown. The midfield three hardly changed all season, Ogogo, Nolan and Godfrey playing the majority of the games. Similarly with Whalley and Rodman, apart from the odd start for Thomas. The only real rotation Hurst used was between Morris and Payne. hurst kept the same side 5 times during the season oh and he's gone by the way walked out on us, deal done before the clubs biggest game ever he his eye off the ball, and then our best players and then failed miserably and the funny thing is some people want him back I'd rather have lee Hughes as manager
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Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 17:51:57 GMT 1
All managers make changes now and then for various reasons that statistic says nothing about the volume of changes made. They were long periods last season when the back five, midfield three and wingers hardly changed.
*Edit* and I don't want the fliper back!
If I could be arsed I'd do some analysis of the changes he made, but my money would be on most being due to injury, unavailability etc. I would expect the changes to be one for most games, two at most, which isn't really rotation, certainly not as we've seen it used this season.
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Post by shrewsace on May 12, 2019 18:03:14 GMT 1
No he didn't, he made very few changes until the last few games when he started to rest players once the playoffs were secured and automatic promotion was almost out of sight. Henderson played every League 1 game when available, the back four changed very little all season apart from when injury forced it, e.e. Junior Brown. The midfield three hardly changed all season, Ogogo, Nolan and Godfrey playing the majority of the games. Similarly with Whalley and Rodman, apart from the odd start for Thomas. The only real rotation Hurst used was between Morris and Payne. hurst kept the same side 5 times during the season oh and he's gone by the way walked out on us, deal done before the clubs biggest game ever he his eye off the ball, and then our best players and then failed miserably and the funny thing is some people want him back I'd rather have lee Hughes as manager I understand fans being f***ed off with Hurst and the manner of his exit. But what evidence is there for claiming he ' his eye off the ball'? The Ipswich rumours were circulating well before the Charlton games, and it didn't seem to do us much harm then. It also beggars belief for Brian to say it came as a shock to the club, when just about everyone with a passing interest in Salop knew about it. If losing out by one extra-time goal after our best league finish in 30 years is failing miserably, then god knows how we rank the rest of our managers.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 18:06:11 GMT 1
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 18:06:11 GMT 1
There are lots of splits to this thread without many out and out underline state of play. Let’s start with Hurst. He clearly has a lot to offer but the two things which stand out is integrity and trust both of which are non existent where he is concerned. So getting him back is totally out of the question. On the question of Rickets and his management style. Firstly he talks about rotating players and tiredness. For gods sake this is a league one side not premier or championship side. You play your best team week in week out. As for tiredness, give me a break, any team should be literally fit for purpose, if they are not there are fundamental issues with either players or training methods.........not how many games you’ve played. Lastly, what the hell is in the minds of the top brass at Salop when appointing a manager. If they gave ambitions to get into the championship then you appoint a seasoned manager to do it. It’s not as if we can’t afford it. Instead we get another wannabe top manager with no management experience only by playing on X Box.Rickets has proved that his team selections an ‘too late’ substitutions are not of the quality needed at this club. My final sign off is Rickets should go and the Board need to get. Some balls and get someone in to do the job. as ricketts says, you can't work on fitness after xmas he arrived to find our players in terrible shape we all know xmas is a heavy period for games and after xmas we played more midweek games than most he states that no matter what happens, by the start of next season , our players will be fit now to me, that explanation I believe, it equates to what I saw this season with my own eyes are you really suggesting we get rid now and replace him with another manager ? because you know and I know, if we did, the incoming manager would have the word Who ? after his name he'd be coming blind into a club and before we know it, we are kicking off the season again with a last minute unfit squad like you say we are not a premiership club
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 18:16:31 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on May 12, 2019 18:16:31 GMT 1
That’s fair enough - your opinion, as you say, and only a bit to disagree with there. Where we definitely part company is when you denigrate Ricketts as “not fit for purpose” and suggest Sc***horpe are in a better place than us. The mini-messiah has gone. He moved on and so, finally, should we. Most of us have. Fair play Mr V. I don't see anything much in Ricketts to give me any confidence moving on and my opening post on this thread was just expressing my frustration that we could possibly of got Hurst and Doig back but for some reason we couldn't or wouldn't and now the opportunity is gone leaving us where we are. You are right that I have no choice but to move and if Ricketts proves me wrong then fantastic. I've fallen out with some good posters on here reference this subject including you so maybe i'm missing something. Time will tell. We disagreed, we didn’t fall out. I do it all the time ...
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 18:38:36 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 18:38:36 GMT 1
All managers make changes now and then for various reasons that statistic says nothing about the volume of changes made. They were long periods last season when the back five, midfield three and wingers hardly changed. *Edit* and I don't want the fliper back! If I could be arsed I'd do some analysis of the changes he made, but my money would be on most being due to injury, unavailability etc. I would expect the changes to be one for most games, two at most, which isn't really rotation, certainly not as we've seen it used this season. I think mine and pilchs post just showed that he did change his team and as I've alluded to he used a multitude of combinations in both full back areas in the centre (Bryn Morris) and up top. For the record I'm all for this play your best team malarch. Wolves up until a few weeks ago had used 19 players total in the league and 2 of those only had a handful of sub appearances. But despite what lanscman and others seem to think the demand of lower league clubs is considerable. 51 games minimum. Add in some cup runs and its up to upper 50s pretty quickly. Putting your body to the limit twice a week is hard going despite what some of our local fitness experts insist. I'm pleased ricketts and hurst realise(d) this and adjust accordingly.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 18:50:46 GMT 1
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 18:50:46 GMT 1
I think there is a difference between minor changes to the team, that all managers make, and a clear policy of rotation. I started looking at the changes Hurst made last season and for the first few weeks of the season, as far as I got by that time, they were nearly all due to injury or unavailability, e.g. Henderson international call ups. There were a couple of instances there that are what I would class as rotation though, the back to back games away at Doncaster at home to Sc***horpe.
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Post by horse01 on May 12, 2019 19:03:08 GMT 1
All managers make changes now and then for various reasons that statistic says nothing about the volume of changes made. They were long periods last season when the back five, midfield three and wingers hardly changed. *Edit* and I don't want the fliper back! If I could be arsed I'd do some analysis of the changes he made, but my money would be on most being due to injury, unavailability etc. I would expect the changes to be one for most games, two at most, which isn't really rotation, certainly not as we've seen it used this season. This is from a post I made a few months back regarding Hursts changes, it should save you the bother!! Over the 46 league games, he made approximately 61 changes. However at least 17 of those changes were enforced (Henderson x 12 - either international duty or suspension; 4 x Red Cards; 1 x Junior Brown injury), I’m sure there would have been more (injuries/suspensions), but without those listed above, he made approximately 44 changes throughout the league season. That is less than 1 change per game on average = CONSISTENCY!
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 19:54:42 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 19:54:42 GMT 1
All managers make changes now and then for various reasons that statistic says nothing about the volume of changes made. They were long periods last season when the back five, midfield three and wingers hardly changed. *Edit* and I don't want the fliper back! If I could be arsed I'd do some analysis of the changes he made, but my money would be on most being due to injury, unavailability etc. I would expect the changes to be one for most games, two at most, which isn't really rotation, certainly not as we've seen it used this season. This is from a post I made a few months back regarding Hursts changes, it should save you the bother!! Over the 46 league games, he made approximately 61 changes. However at least 17 of those changes were enforced (Henderson x 12 - either international duty or suspension; 4 x Red Cards; 1 x Junior Brown injury), I’m sure there would have been more (injuries/suspensions), but without those listed above, he made approximately 44 changes throughout the league season. That is less than 1 change per game on average = CONSISTENCY! 44 through out the season? So in statistical terms nearly 1. Every game. So he consistently changed?
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Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 20:10:08 GMT 1
Your initial comment was that Hurst rotated frequently, there is a distinction between changing the side for a reason and rotation as a general strategy. As has been pointed out a lot of changes Hurst made were enforced, e.g. injury or international call ups.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:24:10 GMT 1
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 20:24:10 GMT 1
Your initial comment was that Hurst rotated frequently, there is a distinction between changing the side for a reason and rotation as a general strategy. As has been pointed out a lot of changes Hurst made were enforced, e.g. injury or international call ups. why are we still having an inquest ? nearly all of ricketts rotations were enforced through either injury, suspension, fitness or the players were just s**t its what a manager does, perhaps we'd have gone up had hurst made a few more, we were too tired at Wembley
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:33:32 GMT 1
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 20:33:32 GMT 1
It's not an inquest it's a discussion and my response was to vincentvega.
Ricketts has a stated policy of using rotation, he also used it at Wrexham, and I expect he will continue to use it next season regardless of any fitness issues as a result, but this isn't a discussion about Ricketts!
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:37:52 GMT 1
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 20:37:52 GMT 1
It's not an inquest it's a discussion and my response was to vincentvega. Ricketts has a stated policy of using rotation, he also used it at Wrexham, and I expect he will continue to use it next season regardless of any fitness issues as a result, but this isn't a discussion about Ricketts! just out of interest where did he state it ? link ?
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:44:11 GMT 1
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 20:44:11 GMT 1
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:51:11 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 20:51:11 GMT 1
Your initial comment was that Hurst rotated frequently, there is a distinction between changing the side for a reason and rotation as a general strategy. As has been pointed out a lot of changes Hurst made were enforced, e.g. injury or international call ups. Yet he still averaged nigh on a change a game... Not sure what else I can add to this discussion to be honest. The stats have been laid out. If we are going to go into the nuances of what quantifies an enforced change or that a change doesn't count because it wasn't in the spine of the team then I'm not really arsed to be honest. As I said originally on this thread when fitness drill Sargent lancsman decided to inform us the best XI should play all 46 games. That's just not possible nor sustainable for a successful team.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 20:53:06 GMT 1
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 20:53:06 GMT 1
Don't you accept that there is a difference between a change because of a rotation policy and changes due to injury for example?
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Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 21:06:02 GMT 1
Back to the original subject of the thread. Hurst expected to be appointed early this week.
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 21:22:45 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on May 12, 2019 21:22:45 GMT 1
Your initial comment was that Hurst rotated frequently, there is a distinction between changing the side for a reason and rotation as a general strategy. As has been pointed out a lot of changes Hurst made were enforced, e.g. injury or international call ups. Yet he still averaged nigh on a change a game... Not sure what else I can add to this discussion to be honest. The stats have been laid out. If we are going to go into the nuances of what quantifies an enforced change or that a change doesn't count because it wasn't in the spine of the team then I'm not really arsed to be honest. As I said originally on this thread when fitness drill Sargent lancsman decided to inform us the best XI should play all 46 games. That's just not possible nor sustainable for a successful team. Liverpool used only 14 players when winning the League in 1965/66, and 2 of those only played 6 games between them. How times have changed! www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Appearances/7
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 21:23:06 GMT 1
Back to the original subject of the thread. Hurst expected to be appointed early this week. I'll be glad when it gets over the line and we can get on with our lives.
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Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 21:31:01 GMT 1
Back to the original subject of the thread. Hurst expected to be appointed early this week. I'll be glad when it gets over the line and we can get on with our lives. Amen to that!
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Hurst
May 12, 2019 21:32:47 GMT 1
Post by shrewsace on May 12, 2019 21:32:47 GMT 1
Back to the original subject of the thread. Hurst expected to be appointed early this week. I'll be glad when it gets over the line and we can get on with our lives. I sincerely hope no one's life is on hold waiting to see where Paul Hurst ends up!
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Post by venceremos on May 12, 2019 22:21:21 GMT 1
Yet he still averaged nigh on a change a game... Not sure what else I can add to this discussion to be honest. The stats have been laid out. If we are going to go into the nuances of what quantifies an enforced change or that a change doesn't count because it wasn't in the spine of the team then I'm not really arsed to be honest. As I said originally on this thread when fitness drill Sargent lancsman decided to inform us the best XI should play all 46 games. That's just not possible nor sustainable for a successful team. Liverpool used only 14 players when winning the League in 1965/66, and 2 of those only played 6 games between them. How times have changed! www.lfchistory.net/SeasonArchive/Appearances/7Extraordinary stat. Especially when you consider they played 42 games, and most of those players must have played 90 minutes every time, not to mention the state of the pitches and the crunching tackles coming in from all angles. On the other hand, they’d have played fewer European and cup games and wouldn’t have run as far in their games as players have to now. Still extraordinary though.
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