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Post by venceremos on Apr 29, 2019 20:31:48 GMT 1
Give him a crack at next season by all means. But let's cut the cr@p. He kept us up? We were seven points and six places outside the relegation zone when he over! I don't get this perspective. Hasselbaink over at Burton when they were in a promotion place and that's where they finished. Did he not achieve promotion? We did stay up so, if Ricketts didn't keep us up, who did? Askey? Coyne and Ramsay (who were in charge for 3 league games)? The season is 46 games. Where you finish, not where you were part way through, is what you've achieved. We didn't really improve our relative standing under Ricketts but it didn't really worsen either. Most importantly, there was a job to be done when Ricketts arrived - inherit a squad he didn't assemble and make the best of it - and he's done it. Not spectacularly, but so what? Yes, it would have been better to have played well more often, won more games and had a more comfortable time but we were never going to make the play offs so, ultimately, what does it matter? We're home now and it's all about the new squad and a fresh start next season.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 29, 2019 20:48:53 GMT 1
Give him a crack at next season by all means. But let's cut the cr@p. He kept us up? We were seven points and six places outside the relegation zone when he over! I don't get this perspective. Hasselbaink over at Burton when they were in a promotion place and that's where they finished. Did he not achieve promotion? We did stay up so, if Ricketts didn't keep us up, who did? Askey? Coyne and Ramsay (who were in charge for 3 league games)? The season is 46 games. Where you finish, not where you were part way through, is what you've achieved. We didn't really improve our relative standing under Ricketts but it didn't really worsen either. Most importantly, there was a job to be done when Ricketts arrived - inherit a squad he didn't assemble and make the best of it - and he's done it. Not spectacularly, but so what? Yes, it would have been better to have played well more often, won more games and had a more comfortable time but we were never going to make the play offs so, ultimately, what does it matter? We're home now and it's all about the new squad and a fresh start next season. The phrase 'he's kept us up' implies we were going down, which the standings at the time don't bear out. Don't understand your view that if you finish third and give fans a season they'll never forget it's no different to finishing 20th if you don't get promoted, but there you go.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 29, 2019 21:04:58 GMT 1
I don't get this perspective. Hasselbaink over at Burton when they were in a promotion place and that's where they finished. Did he not achieve promotion? We did stay up so, if Ricketts didn't keep us up, who did? Askey? Coyne and Ramsay (who were in charge for 3 league games)? The season is 46 games. Where you finish, not where you were part way through, is what you've achieved. We didn't really improve our relative standing under Ricketts but it didn't really worsen either. Most importantly, there was a job to be done when Ricketts arrived - inherit a squad he didn't assemble and make the best of it - and he's done it. Not spectacularly, but so what? Yes, it would have been better to have played well more often, won more games and had a more comfortable time but we were never going to make the play offs so, ultimately, what does it matter? We're home now and it's all about the new squad and a fresh start next season. The phrase 'he's kept us up' implies we were going down, which the standings at the time don't bear out. Don't understand your view that if you finish third and give fans a season they'll never forget it's no different to finishing 20th if you don't get promoted, but there you go. Perhaps because that's not my view. If you finish 3rd, you're in the play offs. If you never had a realistic chance of reaching the play offs but avoid relegation with a little to spare (as we have), by the start of next season nobody but a few fans remember where you finished or how many points you had. "He's kept us up" only implies we were going down if you twist it that way. You avoided my question as to whether Hasselbaink won promotion, despite Burton already being in a promotion place when he over. We were neither staying up nor going down in December because we weren't even halfway through the season. Does the season end in December? Is everything decided by then? Of course not, you have to judge the season as a whole. You can say our position worsened under Ricketts if that's what happened (I don't know) but you can't say he didn't keep us up, because we've been in a relegation scrap throughout and now here we are, staying up.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 29, 2019 21:15:30 GMT 1
The phrase 'he's kept us up' implies we were going down, which the standings at the time don't bear out. Don't understand your view that if you finish third and give fans a season they'll never forget it's no different to finishing 20th if you don't get promoted, but there you go. Perhaps because that's not my view. If you finish 3rd, you're in the play offs. If you never had a realistic chance of reaching the play offs but avoid relegation with a little to spare (as we have), by the start of next season nobody but a few fans remember where you finished or how many points you had. "He's kept us up" only implies we were going down if you twist it that way. You avoided my question as to whether Hasselbaink won promotion, despite Burton already being in a promotion place when he over. We were neither staying up nor going down in December because we weren't even halfway through the season. Does the season end in December? Is everything decided by then? Of course not, you have to judge the season as a whole. You can say our position worsened under Ricketts if that's what happened (I don't know) but you can't say he didn't keep us up, because we've been in a relegation scr@p throughout and now here we are, staying up. In previous exchanges you've said that last season we may as well have finished anywhere above the relegation zone as we ultimately failed to win promotion. Strange view in my opinion, but each to their own. I've already said Ricketts has done (just) enough to be given a shot at next season, I just don't buy the narrative he rescued us from a return to League Two.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 29, 2019 22:39:42 GMT 1
I don't get this perspective. Hasselbaink over at Burton when they were in a promotion place and that's where they finished. Did he not achieve promotion? We did stay up so, if Ricketts didn't keep us up, who did? Askey? Coyne and Ramsay (who were in charge for 3 league games)? The season is 46 games. Where you finish, not where you were part way through, is what you've achieved. We didn't really improve our relative standing under Ricketts but it didn't really worsen either. Most importantly, there was a job to be done when Ricketts arrived - inherit a squad he didn't assemble and make the best of it - and he's done it. Not spectacularly, but so what? Yes, it would have been better to have played well more often, won more games and had a more comfortable time but we were never going to make the play offs so, ultimately, what does it matter? We're home now and it's all about the new squad and a fresh start next season. The phrase 'he's kept us up' implies we were going down, which the standings at the time don't bear out. Don't understand your view that if you finish third and give fans a season they'll never forget it's no different to finishing 20th if you don't get promoted, but there you go. the sad truth is you are probably right askey was just about on track to keep us up too why did he go ? simple, the fans got on his back and here we are again deja vu seems to me like when a new manager arrives ,some have the attitude its not hurst, get rid rickets out, next mug step forward please if your names not hurst you're not coming in
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Post by martinshrew on Apr 29, 2019 23:13:35 GMT 1
The phrase 'he's kept us up' implies we were going down, which the standings at the time don't bear out. Don't understand your view that if you finish third and give fans a season they'll never forget it's no different to finishing 20th if you don't get promoted, but there you go. the sad truth is you are probably right askey was just about on track to keep us up too why did he go ? simple, the fans got on his back and here we are again deja vu seems to me like when a new manager arrives ,some have the attitude its not hurst, get rid rickets out, next mug step forward please if your names not hurst you're not coming in Be good if you grasped the fact that others are allowed a different opinion.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 29, 2019 23:26:02 GMT 1
the sad truth is you are probably right askey was just about on track to keep us up too why did he go ? simple, the fans got on his back and here we are again deja vu seems to me like when a new manager arrives ,some have the attitude its not hurst, get rid rickets out, next mug step forward please if your names not hurst you're not coming in Be good if you grasped the fact that others are allowed a different opinion. be good if you actually read my post I agreed with his opinion
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Post by shrewswolf on Apr 30, 2019 0:10:38 GMT 1
I’d let him go personally. So abject has most of the football been under his management I’m not at all confident we’ll stay up next season.
Then again, he’s seemed to have learnt & taken the ridiculousness out of his first team selections which is good & hopefully a whole summer with a few more of his own additions will mean the 4 or so good showings seen at the end of March/early April can be produced more consistently.
I hope so anyway.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2019 1:56:42 GMT 1
Perhaps because that's not my view. If you finish 3rd, you're in the play offs. If you never had a realistic chance of reaching the play offs but avoid relegation with a little to spare (as we have), by the start of next season nobody but a few fans remember where you finished or how many points you had. "He's kept us up" only implies we were going down if you twist it that way. You avoided my question as to whether Hasselbaink won promotion, despite Burton already being in a promotion place when he over. We were neither staying up nor going down in December because we weren't even halfway through the season. Does the season end in December? Is everything decided by then? Of course not, you have to judge the season as a whole. You can say our position worsened under Ricketts if that's what happened (I don't know) but you can't say he didn't keep us up, because we've been in a relegation scr@p throughout and now here we are, staying up. In previous exchanges you've said that last season we may as well have finished anywhere above the relegation zone as we ultimately failed to win promotion. Strange view in my opinion, but each to their own. I've already said Ricketts has done (just) enough to be given a shot at next season, I just don't buy the narrative he rescued us from a return to League Two. Have I? Where did I say that? Not denying I did but context is everything. Feel free to answer my now three times asked Hasselbaink question if and when you’re ready, by the way. Did he win promotion or not?
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Post by another fine mess on Apr 30, 2019 8:57:48 GMT 1
Kept us up?
He us closer to the drop so that’s a bizarre phrase to use.
It would only be appropriate if he avoided inevitable or highly likely relegation – like Hurst did with us.
By all means vote for Ricketts to stay because you like him or buy-in to his vision, such as it is, but to present the absence of complete failure (relegation) as an indication of success will need us to join Pilch at the Kool-Aid fountain.
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Post by horse01 on Apr 30, 2019 9:06:02 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort.
Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic
Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid?
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Post by Pilch on Apr 30, 2019 9:56:21 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? speaking of shambolic, this thread fits the bill where to start though a manager signs 2 players, who get injured, what was he thinking about, so glad we didn't sign Kevin de Bruyne, and thank goodness you're not a Cardiff fan a manger signs a 3rd choice keeper and doesn't play him, NO WAY a manger buys a second choice keeper and does play him, phew, but guess what, this championship keeper isn't as good as the premiership keeper we had lower league manager brings in loan signings in January Smith, did play Payne did play Manager signs player in the understanding he gets loaned back for the rest of the season, nothing new there then maybe if rickets ****s off and takes Williams and okenberie with him he'll get more respect ;-)
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Post by northwestman on Apr 30, 2019 10:32:13 GMT 1
The worrying thing as far as I'm concerned is a rumour which won't go away that we've agreed a deal with Bristol Rovers to take Payne from them.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 30, 2019 10:36:02 GMT 1
Give him a crack at next season by all means. But let's cut the cr@p. He kept us up? We were seven points and six places outside the relegation zone when he over! Seems some people's loathing of Hurst is driving them to make all sorts of claims for Ricketts' often underwhelming time in charge to date. if you do a league table from rickets first game until now we are 18th exactly the same as when askey left I'm convinced had askey stayed 4 more game or rickets arrive 4 games earlier they both would have picked up those same wins that Coyne had had askey stayed and got those win who knows what might have happened but as you say let's cut the cr@p. the vocal minority got their way and that was the end of askey
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Post by horse01 on Apr 30, 2019 11:27:16 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? speaking of shambolic, this thread fits the bill where to start though a manager signs 2 players, who get injured, what was he thinking about, so glad we didn't sign Kevin de Bruyne, and thank goodness you're not a Cardiff fan a manger signs a 3rd choice keeper and doesn't play him, NO WAY a manger buys a second choice keeper and does play him, phew, but guess what, this championship keeper isn't as good as the premiership keeper we had lower league manager brings in loan signings in January Smith, did play Payne did play Manager signs player in the understanding he gets loaned back for the rest of the season, nothing new there then maybe if rickets ****s off and takes Williams and okenberie with him he'll get more respect ;-) Not quite sure why everything with you has to turn into a slanging match?? You are rapidly putting me off this forum And to make light of the Emiliano Sala situation is a disgrace - much like your constant snide references to Hillsborough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 11:47:43 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? What about the last January window under Paul Hurst? Sam Jones anyone? You can't legislate for players getting injured at the end of the day.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 30, 2019 11:50:39 GMT 1
speaking of shambolic, this thread fits the bill where to start though a manager signs 2 players, who get injured, what was he thinking about, so glad we didn't sign Kevin de Bruyne, and thank goodness you're not a Cardiff fan a manger signs a 3rd choice keeper and doesn't play him, NO WAY a manger buys a second choice keeper and does play him, phew, but guess what, this championship keeper isn't as good as the premiership keeper we had lower league manager brings in loan signings in January Smith, did play Payne did play Manager signs player in the understanding he gets loaned back for the rest of the season, nothing new there then maybe if rickets ****s off and takes Williams and okenberie with him he'll get more respect ;-) Not quite sure why everything with you has to turn into a slanging match?? You are rapidly putting me off this forum And to make light of the Emiliano Sala situation is a disgrace - much like your constant snide references to Hillsborough. he doesn't want a slanging match but starts one ? and all I did was reply to his stupid post and yet he cant reply to me without referring to Man U or liverpool please point to somewhere where I made snide comments about Hillsborough , I've done no such thing I wasn't meaning to make light of Sala , I was just lost for words at you having a go at a manager for signing player that unfortunately got injured
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2019 12:23:04 GMT 1
Give him a crack at next season by all means. But let's cut the cr@p. He kept us up? We were seven points and six places outside the relegation zone when he over! Seems some people's loathing of Hurst is driving them to make all sorts of claims for Ricketts' often underwhelming time in charge to date. if you do a league table from rickets first game until now we are 18th exactly the same as when askey left I'm convinced had askey stayed 4 more game or rickets arrive 4 games earlier they both would have picked up those same wins that Coyne had had askey stayed and got those win who knows what might have happened but as you say let's cut the cr@p. the vocal minority got their way and that was the end of askey I did not like the way the club dealt with askey and the pros and cons of him staying have been extensively debated, my own personal observations of when Coyne charge was that if we put the five wins to one side , the players looked more cohesive, they had one system ,they understood it, ferjiri blossomed, players looked like they were enjoying playing football, we will never know the ins and outs of what did or did not happen on the training ground ,and this is just my observations. whilst i am not a fan of Ricketts he deserve's a chance and he has kept us up. since seemingly dropping the rotation and playing whalley higher up the park , even if the results did not all go our way,we look more of a settled team
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 12:48:48 GMT 1
Will there be a cut off point (just like PPI!) when we finally stop comparing our current/future manager(s) with the one and only Paul Hurst?
We should be looking forward not back.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 12:53:41 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? The warning signs are there for more league one ready players to come in during the summer as in 2016 under Mellon. I wouldn’t want to give him the opportunity to mess up like Mellon did back then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 13:00:14 GMT 1
Will there be a cut off point (just like PPI!) when we finally stop comparing our current/future manager(s) with the one and only Paul Hurst? We should be looking forward not back. Yes but when someone asks the question if we sack Ricketts who would you bring in then my answer would be Paul Hurst. While he’s still available then it’s perfectly reasonable that i would like to seem him return and that for me is looking forward. This forum is supposed to be about opinion and having the balks to give it despite others seemingly hostile to it.
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Post by shrewswolf on Apr 30, 2019 13:32:24 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? This is why on another thread I said I didn’t know whether to be excited by a Sam Ricketts summer transfer window (because of RSW & Campbell) or really really scared (because of the rest). Smith and Payne have been particularly laughable signings. I was excited to see if Edwards had overcome a career of injury problems but that’s definitely not the case, the warning signs were there. Think Vincelot has had his fair share too so it’s not completely unexpected...
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Post by horse01 on Apr 30, 2019 14:49:22 GMT 1
If he does stay, which is more likely than not, I hope his summer recruitment is better than his January effort. Aside from Campbell and Williams, the rest of it has arguably been shambolic Edwards - not fit, not played, got injured Vincelot - not fit, not played, got injured Charles Cook - not played Smith - not played Payne - not played Mitchell - turned out no better than Coleman Golbourne - an age to get up to speed, still not convinced Walker - not sure why we are buying players to aid Wrexham’s promotion bid? This is why on another thread I said I didn’t know whether to be excited by a Sam Ricketts summer transfer window (because of RSW & Campbell) or really really scared (because of the rest). Smith and Payne have been particularly laughable signings. I was excited to see if Edwards had overcome a career of injury problems but that’s definitely not the case, the warning signs were there. Think Vincelot has had his fair share too so it’s not completely unexpected... This was kind of my point too!! Perhaps I didn’t put it as succinctly as I could have? Before joining, Edwards hadn’t played since last May. In my opinion,I thought he was brought in and played too early, to somewhat appease the fans? Vincelot hadn’t played since early November either. Both have a history of injuries, so was it really a huge surprise when they again got injured?? I didn’t see the point in swapping out Coleman for Mitchell, and Charles Cook hasn’t played in the last 12 months. From what I’ve seen, in my opinion Gregory could have done just as good a job as either. As for Payne and Smith, 8 appearances between them out of a possible 40, in my opinion, isn’t money (wages) well spent. All my opinion of course!! Others may differ?
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2019 15:31:19 GMT 1
Will there be a cut off point (just like PPI!) when we finally stop comparing our current/future manager(s) with the one and only Paul Hurst? We should be looking forward not back. Yes but when someone asks the question if we sack Ricketts who would you bring in then my answer would be Paul Hurst. While he’s still available then it’s perfectly reasonable that i would like to seem him return and that for me is looking forward. This forum is supposed to be about opinion and having the balks to give it despite others seemingly hostile to it. You have balks!?
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Post by Pilch on Apr 30, 2019 15:33:59 GMT 1
All my opinion of course!! Others may differ? Top lad, top signing. Let’s hope it’s a top move all round?? others may indeed differ even your own does ;-)
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2019 15:43:17 GMT 1
This is why on another thread I said I didn’t know whether to be excited by a Sam Ricketts summer transfer window (because of RSW & Campbell) or really really scared (because of the rest). Smith and Payne have been particularly laughable signings. I was excited to see if Edwards had overcome a career of injury problems but that’s definitely not the case, the warning signs were there. Think Vincelot has had his fair share too so it’s not completely unexpected... This was kind of my point too!! Perhaps I didn’t put it as succinctly as I could have? Before joining, Edwards hadn’t played since last May. In my opinion,I thought he was brought in and played too early, to somewhat appease the fans? Vincelot hadn’t played since early November either. Both have a history of injuries, so was it really a huge surprise when they again got injured?? I didn’t see the point in swapping out Coleman for Mitchell, and Charles Cook hasn’t played in the last 12 months. From what I’ve seen, in my opinion Gregory could have done just as good a job as either. As for Payne and Smith, 8 appearances between them out of a possible 40, in my opinion, isn’t money (wages) well spent. All my opinion of course!! Others may differ? Those are fair comments, although I'd say the injury Vincelot suffered at Wolves had nothing to do with past injuries but would have taken out any other player. Payne/Smith? Yeah, ok, but maybe we were also fortunate that Campbell and Okenabirhie haven't been injured so we didn't need them more than that. It could have been very different. You could always say spending on players who make few appearances isn't money well spent but then should we not have reserves? But when have we had a transfer window of resounding successes across the board? I can't remember one, summer or winter. Whatever, this January's had far more impact than the previous January's and, as that's the only, very limited opportunity Ricketts has had to bring in players, the reaction of some to the prospect of Ricketts assembling his own squad just seems silly. All managers make mistakes or are let down sooner or later but his recruitment's been fine so far.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 30, 2019 19:16:18 GMT 1
In previous exchanges you've said that last season we may as well have finished anywhere above the relegation zone as we ultimately failed to win promotion. Strange view in my opinion, but each to their own. I've already said Ricketts has done (just) enough to be given a shot at next season, I just don't buy the narrative he rescued us from a return to League Two. Have I? Where did I say that? Not denying I did but context is everything. Feel free to answer my now three times asked Hasselbaink question if and when you’re ready, by the way. Did he win promotion or not? Jesus, dog with a bone much? We're essentially arguing over whether a pint glass is half empty or half full at this point. However, despite my mild irritation at your presumption I'm obliged to answer your every question as if you're a school master setting me homework... Well done Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink for guiding Burton to promotion three years ago. And well done Sam Ricketts for not relegating 15th-places Shrewsbury Town, have a bite at next season. Plaudits all round...
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Post by NDG on Apr 30, 2019 21:22:42 GMT 1
Will there be a cut off point (just like PPI!) when we finally stop comparing our current/future manager(s) with the one and only Paul Hurst? We should be looking forward not back. Yes but when someone asks the question if we sack Ricketts who would you bring in then my answer would be Paul Hurst. While he’s still available then it’s perfectly reasonable that i would like to seem him return and that for me is looking forward. This forum is supposed to be about opinion and having the balks to give it despite others seemingly hostile to it. Not going to happen, the snake camp of fans and BC would never welcome Hurst back and he would never put him self back here knowing about half of the fan base hate him with a passion. I would have him back but most on this board still hold a grudge with him and the manner in which he left.
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Post by buryshrew on Apr 30, 2019 22:10:02 GMT 1
We've miss-fired our way through the entire season both before and with Rickets, with a variety of dire, average and a few decent performances, and a number of half and half matches to boot.
Recruitment was iffy last summer, typified by Waterfall being equal parts saint and sinner throughout the season. Maybe too many of this current squad are right at their glass ceiling in league 1 and are in reality good league 2 players, raising their performances for the cup / 'big' matches such as Portsmouth, Barnsley and Sunderland. Suffice to say, having attended all the north west away matches, those experiences have been **** poor from start to finish (excluding Salford).
I thought the Rickets appointment was mad from the outset. But he's here now. We didn't go down, so he managed to muster enough out of the squad to stagger through and survive - and hopefully he's advanced some way up his learning curve in the process. For that I think he's earned the right to a summer recruitment and a full pre-season to show what he can do with no excuses and his own squad.
Regarding supporter expectations though, it's hard to condemn people for their disappointment at the general standard this season after the highs of the last one. It wasn't a freak season, it was a well run recruitment / pre-season / league campaign that showed what a manager CAN achieve with the tools and budget at a Salop Managers disposal if he's talented and canny enough.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2019 22:45:35 GMT 1
Have I? Where did I say that? Not denying I did but context is everything. Feel free to answer my now three times asked Hasselbaink question if and when you’re ready, by the way. Did he win promotion or not? Jesus, dog with a bone much? We're essentially arguing over whether a pint glass is half empty or half full at this point. However, despite my mild irritation at your presumption I'm obliged to answer your every question as if you're a school master setting me homework... Well done Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink for guiding Burton to promotion three years ago. And well done Sam Ricketts for not relegating 15th-places Shrewsbury Town, have a bite at next season. Plaudits all round... If you don't want to debate a point then don't reply. Nobody's obliged and it proves nothing - but you already know that. I made no presumption. I was just questioning your logic and the Hasselbaink question was central to my point. Evidently that irritated you and you've given a sarky non-answer. OK, it's your prerogative to flounce out of a discussion whenever you want. Bit irritating but I suppose that makes it equal.
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