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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 7:08:31 GMT 1
Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... Wasn't the EU army conspiracy theory debunked about 60 pages back? We have the VETO, so it will never happen while we are members, once we crash out it could well be a different story, but at the moment we still have the power to stop it.
Please stop bringing the same flawed arguments back time and time again.
You are correct in that we don't know where the EU will be in 2025. Brexit could start a domino effect and the whole thing might collapse. Getting rid of the UK and it representatives could open up new and stronger alliances both inside and outside the EU and it will certainly make the whole place a lot less toxic when Farage and his crew leave.
One big advantage of Brexit would be not having to see certain 'politicians' on the TV every chuffin' day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 7:25:34 GMT 1
I accept that the UKs trade with the EU has fallen in recent years, but most of that drop has been due to the loss of manufacturing industry. Our services trade with the EU has increased massively in the same period and now accounts for 45% of UK exports (2017) up from 30% in 2000. Services account for roughly 80% of the UK economy and the potential loss of passporting rights could make a huge hole in that.
Like the old adage goes 'Lies, damn lies and statistics'. Everyone on here can find something to back up their argument and it will usually be statistics. You know as well I do that different people look for and find different things in the same set of numbers and use them for their own agenda, so I am no different to you on that score. It just comes down to which set of numbers you believe.
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Post by percy on Jul 4, 2019 9:18:35 GMT 1
Aside from a warm glow that they have left the EU and somehow ‘regained control’I have not heard one leaver give a tangible example of how leaving would improve their day to day life. Can anyone help me out here so I can understand the prize that they are after ? You will get no answers to your question because the Leavers do not know what it will mean. Here in Spain the leavers fall into two Groups - 1) panicking and would love to change their vote, or 2) belligerent thinking that it will make no difference, but not knowing what it will mean. Seems to be that no Leavers can see any benefit to them in their daily lives  |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 4, 2019 10:39:42 GMT 1
I accept that the UKs trade with the EU has fallen in recent years, but most of that drop has been due to the loss of manufacturing industry. Our services trade with the EU has increased massively in the same period and now accounts for 45% of UK exports (2017) up from 30% in 2000. Services account for roughly 80% of the UK economy and the potential loss of passporting rights could make a huge hole in that.
Like the old adage goes 'Lies, damn lies and statistics'. Everyone on here can find something to back up their argument and it will usually be statistics. You know as well I do that different people look for and find different things in the same set of numbers and use them for their own agenda, so I am no different to you on that score. It just comes down to which set of numbers you believe.
I noticed the 55% and knew it to be incorrect. So I just provided a link to the correct (latest) information (as it has decreased in the meantime). So if I understand it right, when looking to the information available and looking to the % of total exports heading to the EU; it stood at 55% in 2006, 43% in 2016 and 44% in 2017. They are the numbers I believe in as that is the information available. I'm not looking to twist anything or mislead here. Unless just pointing out the fact that the number given is out of date and incorrect is now considered to be doing just that.  Just thought it best that if there were errors in the information posted, people could see the correct information. Even at 44% I think many of us still see the EU (as a whole) as UK's most important trading partner and it will hopefully remain so if Brexit come about. Even with exports to non-EU countries increasing at a faster rate. So the point still stands. I just don't see any harm in pointing people to the correct numbers though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 11:31:04 GMT 1
I accept that the UKs trade with the EU has fallen in recent years, but most of that drop has been due to the loss of manufacturing industry. Our services trade with the EU has increased massively in the same period and now accounts for 45% of UK exports (2017) up from 30% in 2000. Services account for roughly 80% of the UK economy and the potential loss of passporting rights could make a huge hole in that.
Like the old adage goes 'Lies, damn lies and statistics'. Everyone on here can find something to back up their argument and it will usually be statistics. You know as well I do that different people look for and find different things in the same set of numbers and use them for their own agenda, so I am no different to you on that score. It just comes down to which set of numbers you believe.
I noticed the 55% and knew it to be incorrect. So I just provided a link to the correct (latest) information (as it has decreased in the meantime). So if I understand it right, when looking to the information available and looking to the % of total exports heading to the EU; it stood at 55% in 2006, 43% in 2016 and 44% in 2017. They are the numbers I believe in as that is the information available. I'm not looking to twist anything or mislead here. Unless just pointing out the fact that the number given is out of date and incorrect is now considered to be doing just that. Just thought it best that if there were errors in the information posted, people could see the correct information. Even at 44% I think many of us still see the EU (as a whole) as UK's most important trading partner and it will hopefully remain so if Brexit come about. Even with exports to non-EU countries increasing at a faster rate. So the point still stands. I just don't see any harm in pointing people to the correct numbers though. I'm not disputing your figures, I saw 55% somewhere, you corrected me, fair cop. My point is that 80% of that figure is services and if we lose our passporting rights a lot of those services will move out of the UK. Add to that the Japanese US and German car manufacturers shutting down their UK operations and even the best case scenario looks pretty bleak for exports. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 16:22:41 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 17:35:10 GMT 1
No matter what they say this lot of misfits still seem to command unquestioning support....regrettably  |
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Post by darkshrew on Jul 4, 2019 20:36:52 GMT 1
She is proper full-on crazy. Love the way Farage sat there nodding when she was talking. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 4, 2019 21:46:06 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents... Lets hope there is some room for maneuver...  Very worrying times We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. This latest batch of unelected Bureaucrats desire an every closer Union, picking away at nations sovereignty and identity. Ironic really. Where did a “Remain” vote state an ever closer, more integrated union? “You didn’t know what Leave meant when you voted for it”. I’d argue the future of Remain is even more grey, unknown, and worrying Very worrying times indeed, changes may be made in the future that although we will not be a member will affect us. Yet we are about to give up having a say in the future of Europe by leaving the EU. Barmy! |
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Post by salop27 on Jul 4, 2019 21:58:05 GMT 1
She is proper full-on crazy. Love the way Farage sat there nodding when she was talking. Bit of a small storm in a small tea cup. Had to laugh as one labour mp tweeted that Widdecombe and Farage are bankrolled by the elite. First time anyone's ever suggested I'm a member of the elite part of society 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 7:44:00 GMT 1
First time anyone's ever suggested I'm a member I don’t believe that for a second. |
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Post by percy on Jul 5, 2019 14:03:16 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids.
Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 17:55:49 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. Don't hold your breath owd lad.
All the upheaval will be worth it, because we'll get blue passports (made in the EU), control of our borders (does that mean I'll need a passport to get back in now?) and parliamentary sovreignty (unless Johnson decides to prorogue it of course).
Good to see that you didn't sell your flat to one of those nasty Europeans  . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 19:49:45 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. simply because we had a vote and the majority at the time expressed a wish to... and until that has been completed we cannot aim to live in a democracy. I cannot see a reason to stay.... perhaps i have a bit more faith in the UK ability than you |
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Post by percy on Jul 5, 2019 19:52:53 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. simply because we had a vote and the majority at the time expressed a wish to... and until that has been completed we cannot aim to live in a democracy. I cannot see a reason to stay.... perhaps i have a bit more faith in the UK ability than you That’s not answering the question - apart from the warm glow of have escaped the evil clutches of the EU how will your every day life be improved ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 20:07:19 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. simply because we had a vote and the majority at the time expressed a wish to... and until that has been completed we cannot aim to live in a democracy. I cannot see a reason to stay.... perhaps i have a bit more faith in the UK ability than you You’re hardly here anyway Maggie, you’re always off galavanting somewhere 😂👍 |
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Post by salop27 on Jul 5, 2019 21:13:23 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. I don't think anyone has forced you to sell anything! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 21:27:54 GMT 1
simply because we had a vote and the majority at the time expressed a wish to... and until that has been completed we cannot aim to live in a democracy. I cannot see a reason to stay.... perhaps i have a bit more faith in the UK ability than you That’s not answering the question - apart from the warm glow of have escaped the evil clutches of the EU how will your every day life be improved ? My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 23:30:23 GMT 1
That’s not answering the question - apart from the warm glow of have escaped the evil clutches of the EU how will your every day life be improved ? My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country... Yes, it must give you a real glow in the knowledge that our next Prime Minister has been so democratically elected by a majority of the whole electorate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 23:49:10 GMT 1
My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country... Yes, it must give you a real glow in the knowledge that our next Prime Minister has been so democratically elected by a majority of the whole electorate. Hmmm... exactly how is the leader of any party elected... think they are pretty much all the same... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 8:47:44 GMT 1
That’s not answering the question - apart from the warm glow of have escaped the evil clutches of the EU how will your every day life be improved ? My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country...  Oh Downie, what would your girlfriend say? |
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Post by percy on Jul 6, 2019 9:36:27 GMT 1
London flat sale completed today - woo hoo ! Nice Chinese couple and their three teenage kids. Seriously Brexit supporters - please tell me just one single benefit to your day to day lives that Brexit will bring. You are causing me no end of upheaval and I want to feel that it is worth it. I don't think anyone has forced you to sell anything! You think wrong. I am being forced to move to Paris from London because of Brexit. |
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Post by percy on Jul 6, 2019 10:09:39 GMT 1
That’s not answering the question - apart from the warm glow of have escaped the evil clutches of the EU how will your every day life be improved ? My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country... Really ? Nothing... giphy.com/gifs/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/html5 |
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jul 6, 2019 10:37:00 GMT 1
My everyday life will be improved by the knowledge that we are still a democratic country... Yes, it must give you a real glow in the knowledge that our next Prime Minister has been so democratically elected by a majority of the whole electorate. Likewise this wonderful gentleman...............
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 11:22:58 GMT 1
Yes, it must give you a real glow in the knowledge that our next Prime Minister has been so democratically elected by a majority of the whole electorate. Likewise this wonderful gentleman...............
Yes and Boris said at the time there should be a general election. I would like to know what is different about his position apart from the fact that he will be heading a minority government unlike Brown. Party leaders might be elected in this way but invariably they are in opposition. We voted for May (or not as the case may be) and the same with Blair. |
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Post by salop27 on Jul 6, 2019 11:52:01 GMT 1
Fixed term of parliament act gives a government 5 years, that wasn't in place for Brown's coronation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 13:03:40 GMT 1
Likewise this wonderful gentleman...............
Yes and Boris said at the time there should be a general election. I would like to know what is different about his position apart from the fact that he will be heading a minority government unlike Brown. Party leaders might be elected in this way but invariably they are in opposition. We voted for May (or not as the case may be) and the same with Blair. Voted for MAY??.. dont be silly... i voted for Owen Paterson..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 13:06:50 GMT 1
you denounce democracy as nothing... interesting.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 13:37:29 GMT 1
Yes and Boris said at the time there should be a general election. I would like to know what is different about his position apart from the fact that he will be heading a minority government unlike Brown. Party leaders might be elected in this way but invariably they are in opposition. We voted for May (or not as the case may be) and the same with Blair. Voted for MAY??.. dont be silly... i voted for Owen Paterson..... Would have made more sense to vote for May, rather than one of those ERG malcontents who have caused 3 years of uncertainty.  |
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Post by percy on Jul 6, 2019 14:28:25 GMT 1
you denounce democracy as nothing... interesting.... I asked if there was any concrete benefit that you were expecting to get in your day to day life from Brexit beyond a warm feeling from leaving the EU. Your response was basically I will get a warm feeling of self satisfaction from leaving the EU and respecting democracy. So, no concrete benefit to your daily life at all apart from a warm feeling adding to smugness. Downie I appreciate that you would rather be obtuse than give an example of a concrete benefit to your daily life from leaving the EU, but doesn't your inability to think of anything make you question just whether you may be being a tit by supporting such a gamble without a clue why ? You claim that I do not respect democracy - despite the fact that I said nothing about leaving or not - I do. As we get closer to choosing the way to leave the EU; let's vote on it to just make sure we are following the will of the people - a "confirmatory vote" if you will. Wouldn't it be terrible to leave the EU in a method that the majority of the country disagreed with ? |
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Just thought it best that if there were errors in the information posted, people could see the correct information.
