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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 14:19:21 GMT 1
Everything? You don’t think you may be understating the complexity of the issue a tad 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 14:33:34 GMT 1
You also have to factor in the trade deals many of which the EU have only recently agreed. We won't get anywhere near as good deals as Canada have already stated. The EU will always negotiate on the basis of strength in numbers which is an advantage we are in danger of tossing away. |
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Post by shrewinspain on Jul 3, 2019 16:35:27 GMT 1
Aside from a warm glow that they have left the EU and somehow ‘regained control’I have not heard one leaver give a tangible example of how leaving would improve their day to day life. Can anyone help me out here so I can understand the prize that they are after ? You will get no answers to your question because the Leavers do not know what it will mean. Here in Spain the leavers fall into two Groups - 1) panicking and would love to change their vote, or 2) belligerent thinking that it will make no difference, but not knowing what it will mean. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 17:32:12 GMT 1
Everything? You don’t think you may be understating the complexity of the issue a tad 😂 You mean getting confused between 55% compared to 44%?  Yes, I see what you mean. Thank goodness we do have Full Fact and their guide to...you guessed it; Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU...  |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 18:10:06 GMT 1
The EU will always negotiate on the basis of strength in numbers which is an advantage we are in danger of tossing away. That's true. Should the UK remain within the EU there is the benefits of strength in numbers, the power and influence that such a huge bloc provides. Not sure we can factor that into UK exports to the EU, however. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 18:35:06 GMT 1
Everything? You don’t think you may be understating the complexity of the issue a tad 😂 You mean getting confused between 55% compared to 44%? Yes, I see what you mean. Thank goodness we do have Full Fact and their guide to...you guessed it; Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU... Everything? 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 18:39:21 GMT 1
The 'full facts' are here about the benefits of trading within the EU block. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21I would argue that the "Full Fact" website is short on some fact. Makes you wonder about 'their' agenda. What is significant is that goods are down, but services we export aren't, but the former has been in decline for decades. Things are made cheaper abroad. Look at the car industry. As for sovereignty, I have shown we have legislative sovereignty and foreign policy sovereignty. If you're in a Club, you play their rules, the rules you agreed to. Maybe the UK could have had more influence over these rules if MEP's, like Farage, took their job more seriously and properly engaged with the institution. But, there you go. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 18:57:59 GMT 1
You mean getting confused between 55% compared to 44%? Yes, I see what you mean. Thank goodness we do have Full Fact and their guide to...you guessed it; Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU... Everything? 😂 According to Full Fact, yeah. I guess they need the hits. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 3, 2019 19:18:20 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents...  Lets hope there is some room for maneuver...  Very worrying times We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. This latest batch of unelected Bureaucrats desire an every closer Union, picking away at nations sovereignty and identity. Ironic really. Where did a “Remain” vote state an ever closer, more integrated union? “You didn’t know what Leave meant when you voted for it”. I’d argue the future of Remain is even more grey, unknown, and worrying |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 19:23:27 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents... Lets hope there is some room for maneuver... Very worrying times We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. This latest batch of unelected Bureaucrats desire an every closer Union, picking away at nations sovereignty and identity. Ironic really. Where did a “Remain” vote state an ever closer, more integrated union? “You didn’t know what Leave meant when you voted for it”. I’d argue the future of Remain is even more grey, unknown, and worrying When was the last time you sang the EU anthem at a sporting event and saw the EU flag raised as Team GB won another gold medal? I'm pretty sure the arm patch I wore on shoulder while in uniform was the Union Jack. Better check me photos though. But, you've nothing to "worry" about, we're leaving. Unless, of course you know better? |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 3, 2019 19:24:13 GMT 1
The 'full facts' are here about the benefits of trading within the EU block. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21I would argue that the "Full Fact" website is short on some fact. Makes you wonder about 'their' agenda. What is significant is that goods are down, but services we export aren't, but the former has been in decline for decades. Things are made cheaper abroad. Look at the car industry. As for sovereignty, I have shown we have legislative sovereignty and foreign policy sovereignty. If you're in a Club, you play their rules, the rules you agreed to. Maybe the UK could have had more influence over these rules if MEP's, like Farage, took their job more seriously and properly engaged with the institution. But, there you go. If only it was still a common market, as the UK initially voted to join, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today. Nor for the past 3 years. Above you say “the rules you agreed to”. The UK electorate never agreed to what we have today. Things have moved on a hell of a long way, since the UK electorate agreed to it. Pretty certain that, like it or not, the more the EU insist on following the path of an ever closer Union, the more this debate will continue to rage |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 19:32:55 GMT 1
The 'full facts' are here about the benefits of trading within the EU block. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21I would argue that the "Full Fact" website is short on some fact. Makes you wonder about 'their' agenda. What is significant is that goods are down, but services we export aren't, but the former has been in decline for decades. Things are made cheaper abroad. Look at the car industry. As for sovereignty, I have shown we have legislative sovereignty and foreign policy sovereignty. If you're in a Club, you play their rules, the rules you agreed to. Maybe the UK could have had more influence over these rules if MEP's, like Farage, took their job more seriously and properly engaged with the institution. But, there you go. If only it was still a common market, as the UK initially voted to join, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today. Nor for the past 3 years. Above you say “the rules you agreed to”. The UK electorate never agreed to what we have today. Things have moved on a hell of a long way, since the UK electorate agreed to it. Pretty certain that, like it or not, the more the EU insist on following the path of an ever closer Union, the more this debate will continue to rage I have voted in every EU election I have been able to. Therefore I have had my say. Just like in GE's in the UK. I never 'agreed' (ie voted against) to the austerity cuts that pulled SLT from my son. But, there you go. It is also worth remembering that the UK still holds a veto on some things. Like I said, if we really wanted to make a difference, then more of the UK's MEP's should have engaged in a serious manner. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 19:33:00 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents... Lets hope there is some room for maneuver... Very worrying times We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. This latest batch of unelected Bureaucrats desire an every closer Union, picking away at nations sovereignty and identity. Ironic really. Where did a “Remain” vote state an ever closer, more integrated union? “You didn’t know what Leave meant when you voted for it”. I’d argue the future of Remain is even more grey, unknown, and worrying Well I don't know about that, I don't feel as though I've had any flag or anthem forced upon me. Have no issue with that, if that's what they are into then fair enough. Neither mean anything to me but whatever floats their boat... Speaking of which, I can't be doing with people who feel its OK to burn the EU flag. And I find the Brexit party's antics of turning their back on the anthem at the EU Parliament frankly embarrassing. As were the Lib Dems t-shirts. There was a time that I never identified the talk of the "laughing stock of the Europe" when it came to Brexit, my own experience suggested nothing of the sort. But what we saw in the EU Parliament recently was cringe worthy. They ought to grow up...  And yes, I think 'ever closer union' is very much the aim when it comes to the EU. I don't think that's any secret. Even with talk of a two speed EU, I think its clear the destination is the same. If that's not your thing then of course people will want out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 19:37:45 GMT 1
Yes, the Brexit Party and the Lid Dems, badly let themselves and the country down.
The Brexit Party turning their backs was not the brightest thing in the world considering mid-twentieth century history, while the Lid Dems looked like a bunch 6th formers protesting about the prices in the refectory.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 19:38:39 GMT 1
The 'full facts' are here about the benefits of trading within the EU block. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21I would argue that the "Full Fact" website is short on some fact. Makes you wonder about 'their' agenda. What is significant is that goods are down, but services we export aren't, but the former has been in decline for decades. Things are made cheaper abroad. Look at the car industry. As for sovereignty, I have shown we have legislative sovereignty and foreign policy sovereignty. If you're in a Club, you play their rules, the rules you agreed to. Maybe the UK could have had more influence over these rules if MEP's, like Farage, took their job more seriously and properly engaged with the institution. But, there you go. If only it was still a common market, as the UK initially voted to join, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today. Nor for the past 3 years. That is certainly something that is touched on in "How to lose a referendum" by Jason Farrell and Paul Goldsmith. Within that they say that those who voted to join weren't told the whole story and it ended up being an awful lot more than what they had bargained for, that that is one of the reasons so many over 60's voted to leave...it was he first opportunity they had had to, as they saw it, right a wrong. They feel as though it turned out to be something altogether different to what it was sold to them at the time. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 3, 2019 19:39:39 GMT 1
Very worrying times We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. This latest batch of unelected Bureaucrats desire an every closer Union, picking away at nations sovereignty and identity. Ironic really. Where did a “Remain” vote state an ever closer, more integrated union? “You didn’t know what Leave meant when you voted for it”. I’d argue the future of Remain is even more grey, unknown, and worrying Well I don't know about that, I don't feel as though I've had any flag or anthem forced upon me. Have no issue with that, if that's what they are into then fair enough. Neither mean anything to me but whatever floats their boat... Speaking of which, I can't be doing with people who feel its OK to burn the EU flag. And I find the Brexit party's antics of turning their back on the anthem at the EU Parliament frankly embarrassing. As were the Lib Dems t-shirts. There was a time that I never identified the talk of the "laughing stock of the Europe" when it came to Brexit, my own experience suggested nothing of the sort. But what we saw in the EU Parliament recently was cringe worthy. They ought to grow up... And yes, I think 'ever closer union' is very much the aim when it comes to the EU. I don't think that's any secret. Even with talk of a two speed EU, I think its clear the destination is the same. If that's not your thing then of course people will want out. Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 19:54:30 GMT 1
Well I don't know about that, I don't feel as though I've had any flag or anthem forced upon me. Have no issue with that, if that's what they are into then fair enough. Neither mean anything to me but whatever floats their boat... Speaking of which, I can't be doing with people who feel its OK to burn the EU flag. And I find the Brexit party's antics of turning their back on the anthem at the EU Parliament frankly embarrassing. As were the Lib Dems t-shirts. There was a time that I never identified the talk of the "laughing stock of the Europe" when it came to Brexit, my own experience suggested nothing of the sort. But what we saw in the EU Parliament recently was cringe worthy. They ought to grow up... And yes, I think 'ever closer union' is very much the aim when it comes to the EU. I don't think that's any secret. Even with talk of a two speed EU, I think its clear the destination is the same. If that's not your thing then of course people will want out. Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... Perhaps. I'm very much of the mind that it really doesn't matter as I think for many who want to remain, its the idea of the EU that they have fallen for; as in what they think it represents. I think the EU have done incredible well to propagate and exploit that. It's why I think the EU and many of those who vote to remain conflate the two, the EU and Europe. They see it as one of the same. Then on the other side of the coin, there are us who don't see it that way and can detach the two. I see the EU as a political, economic and (for some) a monetary union. Those are things that I don't look to when I look to who or what I am. And I see no reason as to why such things can not be managed but on a different footing. I'm European. Will feel that come what may, Brexit or no Brexit. It won't matter either way. But then I have said this before too; I didn't vote in the referendum and I couldn't vote in the referendum. I don't have an attachment to the referendum or the result. I didn't win, I didn't lose. As I think that is also playing a part to how things have panned out since. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 19:57:25 GMT 1
Well I don't know about that, I don't feel as though I've had any flag or anthem forced upon me. Have no issue with that, if that's what they are into then fair enough. Neither mean anything to me but whatever floats their boat... Speaking of which, I can't be doing with people who feel its OK to burn the EU flag. And I find the Brexit party's antics of turning their back on the anthem at the EU Parliament frankly embarrassing. As were the Lib Dems t-shirts. There was a time that I never identified the talk of the "laughing stock of the Europe" when it came to Brexit, my own experience suggested nothing of the sort. But what we saw in the EU Parliament recently was cringe worthy. They ought to grow up... And yes, I think 'ever closer union' is very much the aim when it comes to the EU. I don't think that's any secret. Even with talk of a two speed EU, I think its clear the destination is the same. If that's not your thing then of course people will want out. Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... The 1957 Treaty states that it's a "closer union of peoples" as opposed to political union. The UK (and other countries) have consistently resisted any changes to the term "closer union of peoples". You make it sound like the new EU leadership have the power to make this happen, they don't. As explained here. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7230/CBP-7230.pdf |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 20:23:19 GMT 1
If only it was still a common market, as the UK initially voted to join, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today. Nor for the past 3 years. That is certainly something that is touched on in "How to lose a referendum" by Jason Farrell and Paul Goldsmith. Within that they say that those who voted to join weren't told the whole story and it ended up being an awful lot more than what they had bargained for, that that is one of the reasons so many over 60's voted to leave...it was he first opportunity they had had to, as they saw it, right a wrong. They feel as though it turned out to be something altogether different to what it was sold to them at the time. Conversely the under 40s who voted overwhelmingly to Remain did not have that so called "axe to grind" and perhaps they recognise a bigger picture. Their future not mine. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 20:26:59 GMT 1
Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... Perhaps. I'm very much of the mind that it really doesn't matter as I think for many who want to remain, its the idea of the EU that they have fallen for; as in what they think it represents. I think the EU have done incredible well to propagate and exploit that. It's why I think the EU and many of those who vote to remain conflate the two, the EU and Europe. They see it as one of the same. Then on the other side of the coin, there are us who don't see it that way and can detach the two. I see the EU as a political, economic and (for some) a monetary union. Those are things that I don't look to when I look to who or what I am. And I see no reason as to why such things can not be managed but on a different footing. I'm European. Will feel that come what may, Brexit or no Brexit. It won't matter either way. But then I have said this before too; I didn't vote in the referendum and I couldn't vote in the referendum. I don't have an attachment to the referendum or the result. I didn't win, I didn't lose. As I think that is also playing a part to how things have panned out since. Funny isn't it that I voted remain, but identify as British. I have never, ever, considered myself European. As for the over 60s, who voted out. All the ones I know voted out based on immigration. Including my mum. Who now lives in Spain. |
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 3, 2019 20:28:43 GMT 1
Which brings me back to my point above well. How many people who voted Remain, voted for an ever closer Union? (centralised tax policies, EU defence/army) They say Leave voters didn’t know what they voted for (which is bull but there you go...) You could argue the EU in 2025 for example, will not represent what a Remain vote in 2016 did... Perhaps. I'm very much of the mind that it really doesn't matter as I think for many who want to remain, its the idea of the EU that they have fallen for; as in what they think it represents. I think the EU have done incredible well to propagate and exploit that. It's why I think the EU and many of those who vote to remain conflate the two, the EU and Europe. They see it as one of the same. Then on the other side of the coin, there are us who don't see it that way and can detach the two. I see the EU as a political, economic and (for some) a monetary union. Those are things that I don't look to when I look to who or what I am. And I see no reason as to why such things can not be managed but on a different footing. I'm European. Will feel that come what may, Brexit or no Brexit. It won't matter either way. But then I have said this before too; I didn't vote in the referendum and I couldn't vote in the referendum. I don't have an attachment to the referendum or the result. I didn't win, I didn't lose. As I think that is also playing a part to how things have panned out since. I posted something a while back about this and it's interesting to see the discussion hasn't moved on on the thread at all since then. The idea that all Remainers are walking around waving a blue flag, humming "Ode to Joy" and desperate to joun the Euro is as much a cliche as the idea of leavers all being small minded bigots. The philosophy behind all this is not relevant to me. I voted remain snd in truth am broadly positive about the EU; I think it's a fairly good system and being in it is a net positive but that's intended to sound every bit as lukewarm as it does. I'm fully aware of the issues around democratic deficit (probably more so than most leavers, given my line of work and related professional studies). I'm fully aware that there's waste and corruption (there is in every system, our own included). I'm not sold on the Euro and would rather we steered clear of it. In another world, I could easily have voted Leave. For me the referendum wasn't about the EU though, it was about the fact that I wouldn't trust the current incarnation of the conservative party with the key to my wife's shop for 5 minutes whilst I nipped out for milk, much less manage our withdrawal from the European Union. The rest of it, all the hot air about ever closer union and sovereignty, is just an exercise in arranging deckchairs on the Titanic because whilst you're debating lofty ideals, you've literally let the lunatics take over the asylum. We live in a timeline where there's a realistic chance that Boris Johnson will be PM, we have people of the calibre of David Bull (a former "Most Haunted" presenter who starred in a film rated 8% on Rotten Tomatoes) representing us in the European Parliament and, worst of all, some people still expect us to be taken seriously abroad. I'm sure there is a right way of doing brexit, led by someone who is able to articulate concerns and beliefs whilst skillfully maintaining strong relationships with our closest trading partners and neighbours, but this isn't it. We are being literally "led by donkeys" who will almost certainly **** it up. If I were a leave voter I would be clamouring for A50 to be revoked to give us time to find someone capable of pulling this off. If renain voters are guilty of conflating Europe with the EU, leave voters are guilty of prioritising getting thrir own way at any cost. The difference is only one of those things leads us to a catastrophic period of turmoil when the tories crash us out of Europe with no real forward plan. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 21:10:30 GMT 1
That is certainly something that is touched on in "How to lose a referendum" by Jason Farrell and Paul Goldsmith. Within that they say that those who voted to join weren't told the whole story and it ended up being an awful lot more than what they had bargained for, that that is one of the reasons so many over 60's voted to leave...it was he first opportunity they had had to, as they saw it, right a wrong. They feel as though it turned out to be something altogether different to what it was sold to them at the time. Conversely the under 40s who voted overwhelmingly to Remain did not have that so called "axe to grind" and perhaps they recognise a bigger picture. Their future not mine. Yep, maybe they didn't have that 'axe to grind' as you put it. Whether they recognize some bigger picture, who knows. Turnout increased with age. If many more had recognized this 'bigger picture' perhaps remain would have won. 30% of under 25's voted to leave, more clearly weren't arsed either way and were happy to let others make the decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 21:17:58 GMT 1
We have already had an odious EU flag and anthem forced upon us, amongst many other things. Wasn’t forced upon me. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 21:36:41 GMT 1
Perhaps. I'm very much of the mind that it really doesn't matter as I think for many who want to remain, its the idea of the EU that they have fallen for; as in what they think it represents. I think the EU have done incredible well to propagate and exploit that. It's why I think the EU and many of those who vote to remain conflate the two, the EU and Europe. They see it as one of the same. Then on the other side of the coin, there are us who don't see it that way and can detach the two. I see the EU as a political, economic and (for some) a monetary union. Those are things that I don't look to when I look to who or what I am. And I see no reason as to why such things can not be managed but on a different footing. I'm European. Will feel that come what may, Brexit or no Brexit. It won't matter either way. But then I have said this before too; I didn't vote in the referendum and I couldn't vote in the referendum. I don't have an attachment to the referendum or the result. I didn't win, I didn't lose. As I think that is also playing a part to how things have panned out since. Funny isn't it that I voted remain, but identify as British. I have never, ever, considered myself European. As for the over 60s, who voted out. All the ones I know voted out based on immigration. Including my mum. Who now lives in Spain. Well first and foremost, I identify as English. But with that said; having lived here I think I see it, I think I understand it. I suppose that is why something like an 'ever closer union of peoples' or whatever it is was able to get off the ground in the first place and why it has brought us to where we are now. Not sure I can put into words or put my finger on it to be honest but there is something there and something many share. I mean if I were ever asked where I come from or what my nationality is then it would be English (not British or European) but I do get a feel of being European...maybe that's what near on 20 years living in Germany does to you (as before coming here I doubt that even entered my mind). Closer than we've ever been now I'm sure, just hope that is set to continue come what may...👍 |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 21:42:56 GMT 1
Perhaps. I'm very much of the mind that it really doesn't matter as I think for many who want to remain, its the idea of the EU that they have fallen for; as in what they think it represents. I think the EU have done incredible well to propagate and exploit that. It's why I think the EU and many of those who vote to remain conflate the two, the EU and Europe. They see it as one of the same. Then on the other side of the coin, there are us who don't see it that way and can detach the two. I see the EU as a political, economic and (for some) a monetary union. Those are things that I don't look to when I look to who or what I am. And I see no reason as to why such things can not be managed but on a different footing. I'm European. Will feel that come what may, Brexit or no Brexit. It won't matter either way. But then I have said this before too; I didn't vote in the referendum and I couldn't vote in the referendum. I don't have an attachment to the referendum or the result. I didn't win, I didn't lose. As I think that is also playing a part to how things have panned out since. I posted something a while back about this and it's interesting to see the discussion hasn't moved on on the thread at all since then. Well glad you dropped that in early doors as it meant I could leave the rest. Sure, the conversation hasn't moved on, I made the same comment a few days back. I suspect we're on for a record thread on B&A because of it. Its just repetitiveness at the minute. Its just going around in circles now. And even with the same things repeated again and again I doubt anyone has shifted their opinion. |
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 3, 2019 22:14:54 GMT 1
I posted something a while back about this and it's interesting to see the discussion hasn't moved on on the thread at all since then. Well glad you dropped that in early doors as it meant I could leave the rest. Sure, the conversation hasn't moved on, I made the same comment a few days back. I suspect we're on for a record thread on B&A because of it. Its just repetitiveness at the minute. Its just going around in circles now. And even with the same things repeated again and again I doubt anyone has shifted their opinion. You'd know, mate, you're in this thread more than anyone else. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 3, 2019 22:20:10 GMT 1
Meanwhile a YouGov poll out today is predicting Nigel Farage as PM in a hung parliament. Brexit party and Conservatives polled to take about 380 seats between them, in 47% of the vote.
Labour lagging in 4th on 18%.
Imagine the scenes on here!! This board/thread is far from reflecting what people are saying in reality
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 3, 2019 23:35:50 GMT 1
You also have to factor in the trade deals many of which the EU have only recently agreed. We won't get anywhere near as good deals as Canada have already stated. The EU will always negotiate on the basis of strength in numbers which is an advantage we are in danger of tossing away. Might be just the way my mind works, but I think of it as being a member for greater "buying/bargaining" power, that's why Tuffins is a Nisa. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 3, 2019 23:42:49 GMT 1
Meanwhile a YouGov poll out today is predicting Nigel Farage as PM in a hung parliament. Brexit party and Conservatives polled to take about 380 seats between them, in 47% of the vote. Labour lagging in 4th on 18%. Imagine the scenes on here!! This board/thread is far from reflecting what people are saying in reality Saying in reality to the pollsters. I'm all for having a General Election to check this reality. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 4, 2019 5:43:12 GMT 1
Well glad you dropped that in early doors as it meant I could leave the rest. Sure, the conversation hasn't moved on, I made the same comment a few days back. I suspect we're on for a record thread on B&A because of it. Its just repetitiveness at the minute. Its just going around in circles now. And even with the same things repeated again and again I doubt anyone has shifted their opinion. You'd know, mate, you're in this thread more than anyone else. More than anyone else? I'll have to take your word on that, I've not got the inclination to count everyones contribution... Be good if that was something you could check on a thread though...👍 |
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Yes, I see what you mean. Thank goodness we do have Full Fact and their guide to...you guessed it; Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU...
