Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 2, 2019 22:05:27 GMT 1
Yawn, that's all been gone through. All that's required is a confirmatory referendum to ensure the choice made is what the electorate want now. Based on the facts. Yawn, that’s all been gone through. There are no more “facts” available now, that weren’t bandied around in 2016. You can’t have facts on a post EU UK, when it hasn’t happened yet By 'facts' they just mean they would like another opportunity to spend millions of pounds relentlessly ramming project fear propaganda down out throats again in the hope that it may work this time. |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jul 2, 2019 22:36:46 GMT 1
No I don’t retract These 2 are vying for votes. I wouldn’t trust what they say as far as I can throw them A Corbyn led Labour Party would be a disaster for the economy Valerioch is a true, loyal Tory - party (liars and all) before country. Every time. You have no idea who I’ve voted for in my life As for party before country, Labour have been playing the biggest game of party politics known to man, since the referendum. Desperate to frustrate themselves in to power |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jul 2, 2019 22:38:07 GMT 1
Absolutely, you're quite right, on the 31st October: 1) Leave with the proposed deal. 2) Leave without a deal. Yawn - it is not democratic to refuse people the right to change their mind. Shall we have a referendum every year then? Every month? Week? Or until you get the result you want... |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 2, 2019 22:54:16 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2019 23:10:21 GMT 1
Valerioch is a true, loyal Tory - party (liars and all) before country. Every time. You have no idea who I’ve voted for in my life As for party before country, Labour have been playing the biggest game of party politics known to man, since the referendum. Desperate to frustrate themselves in to power I don’t know who you’ve voted for, that’s true. But you do a good impersonation of a true, loyal Tory when you adopt the party’s arguments so readily. I apologise, of course, if you’re not a Tory because I understand how insulting that would be. |
|
|
|
Post by percy on Jul 2, 2019 23:16:18 GMT 1
Surely one of our Brexit loving democracy posters will find a flaw with this - probably that only remain voters have died, or that there was a ground swell of support for leave from the 15-17 age group in 2016, or that lots of remain voters have seen the light now that the Tories have shown what a success we will be on our own. Or that those now of age to vote are looking forward to the NHS getting an extra £350m per week when we leave the EU. None of them are stupid enough to believe that surely ? |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2019 23:16:29 GMT 1
Yawn, that’s all been gone through. There are no more “facts” available now, that weren’t bandied around in 2016. You can’t have facts on a post EU UK, when it hasn’t happened yet By 'facts' they just mean they would like another opportunity to spend millions of pounds relentlessly ramming project fear propaganda down out throats again in the hope that it may work this time. So anyway, you had “thousands” of examples of legislation this government has been prevented by EU law from enacting. Just wondering whether you’re ready now to share any examples with your less enlightened brethren? You seemed reluctant to do so last time .... |
|
|
|
Post by percy on Jul 2, 2019 23:17:55 GMT 1
Yawn - it is not democratic to refuse people the right to change their mind. Shall we have a referendum every year then? Every month? Week? Or until you get the result you want... Just one - before we do something incredibly stupid that was not mandated by the last referendum ie a no deal Brexit. If it goes the way of no deal Brexit then fair enough, job done that is what it will be. Fair enough ? |
|
|
|
Post by salop27 on Jul 2, 2019 23:40:32 GMT 1
You have no idea who I’ve voted for in my life As for party before country, Labour have been playing the biggest game of party politics known to man, since the referendum. Desperate to frustrate themselves in to power I don’t know who you’ve voted for, that’s true. But you do a good impersonation of a true, loyal Tory when you adopt the party’s arguments so readily. I apologise, of course, if you’re not a Tory because I understand how insulting that would be. I've rarely not voted conservative in the years I've been old enough to vote. Everyone has a choice and we all have different opinions. I might not agree with someone else's but I wouldn't dream of being as rude or insulting as some on here. |
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 3:04:26 GMT 1
By 'facts' they just mean they would like another opportunity to spend millions of pounds relentlessly ramming project fear propaganda down out throats again in the hope that it may work this time. So anyway, you had “thousands” of examples of legislation this government has been prevented by EU law from enacting. Just wondering whether you’re ready now to share any examples with your less enlightened brethren? You seemed reluctant to do so last time .... You must have missed the examples given at the time. Have a read back and educate yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jul 3, 2019 6:52:49 GMT 1
I don’t know who you’ve voted for, that’s true. But you do a good impersonation of a true, loyal Tory when you adopt the party’s arguments so readily. I apologise, of course, if you’re not a Tory because I understand how insulting that would be. I've rarely not voted conservative in the years I've been old enough to vote. Everyone has a choice and we all have different opinions. I might not agree with someone else's but I wouldn't dream of being as rude or insulting as some on here. Welcome to the world of the left wing |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 7:41:06 GMT 1
Yawn, that’s all been gone through. There are no more “facts” available now, that weren’t bandied around in 2016. You can’t have facts on a post EU UK, when it hasn’t happened yet By 'facts' they just mean they would like another opportunity to spend millions of pounds relentlessly ramming project fear propaganda down out throats again in the hope that it may work this time. The Centre for Economic Performance at the London School of Economics have posted this:
CEP BREXIT ANALYSIS No. 3The impact of Brexit on foreign investment in the UK•Foreign direct investment (FDI) raises national productivity and therefore output and wages. Multinational firms bring in better technological and managerial know-how, which directly raises output in their operations. FDI also stimulates domestic firms to improve – for example, through stronger supply chains and tougher competition.
•The UK has an FDI stock of over £1 trillion, about half of which is from other members of the European Union (EU). Part of the UK’s attractiveness for foreign investors is that it brings easy access to the EU’s Single Market. After Brexit, higher trade costs with the EU would be likely to depress FDI.
•Our new empirical analysis looks at bilateral FDI flows between 34 OECD countries (including the UK) over the last three decades. Controlling for many other factors, thebaseline estimate is that EU membership has raised FDI by about 28%.
•The positive effect of EU membership on FDI is robust, ranging between 14% and 38% under different statistical assumptions. The size of these effects is also consistent with comparisons between UK FDI flows and a set of matched control countries. •Striking a comprehensive trade deal – for example, joining Switzerland in the European Free Trade Association – would not significantly reduce the negative effects of Brexit on FDI, according to the data.
•Assessing the impact of lower FDI on income is complex. We use existing macroeconomic estimates of how FDI affects growth combined with a very conservative estimate of the impact of Brexit – a 22% fall in FDI over the next decade. We calculate that a Brexit-induced fall in FDI could cause a 3.4% decline in real income – about £2,200 of GDP per household. The income losses due to lower FDI are larger than our estimates of static losses due to lower trade of 1.3% to 2.6%.
•Estimates of the impact of Brexit on the UK’s car industry imply that UK production would fall by 181,000 cars (12%) and prices would rise by 2.5%. Even if the UK manages a comprehensive trade deal and keeps tariffs at zero, production would fall by 36,000 cars.
•The UK’s financial services industryis the largest recipient of FDI. Restrictions on ‘single passport’ privileges following Brexit, would lead to big cuts in activity. Furthermore, the UK would be unable to challenge EU regulations at the European Court of Justice.
Full report here if you'd like read it all for yourself;
Now Percy is the expert on what goes on in the City and will have a better take on this than me, but even I know that the financial services industry makes up around 6.5% of the entire countrys GDP. Losing even some of that (which is already beginning to happen by the way) will have massive, potentially catastrophic effects on the finances of the UK.
We've already lost out on exchange rates, in 2016 you got $1.40+ to the £, now you're lucky to $1.25, used to get €1.25+ now down to around €1.09. Now we all know exchange rates fluctuate, but the drop in 2016 has never been recovered. Everything we import now costs more and it follows that we should be exporting more, but we're not.
We're also losing jobs in the motor manufacturing sector and all of the supply chain.
Now I understand that you are a hardline brexiter and would be happy with no-deal, would refuse to pay the £39billion and damn the consequences, but when you consider that 55% of our exports go to the EU is it really wise to alienate our largest customer. I also know that when we leave we can start selling our products all over the world which will be great. It would be lovely if you could let us all know which new markets we will be able to start selling in. There is already global trade and we through our EU membership have free trade deals with huge swathes of the world, the EU have recently signed trade deals with Japan and several South American countries that once we leave we will no longer be part of and will have to negotiate our own deals as a weaker entitiy.
The government are constantly telling us that there is record employment and record low unemployment, but most new jobs these days are poor quality, poor pay, poor benefits (if any), lousy hours and add very little to the overall wealth or health of the nation. Losing good jobs in the City, in the car industry or any other business affected adversely by brexit and replacing the with s**tty ones on minimum wage or zero hours might be good for a priviledged few, but will not benefit the country as a whole.
|
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 8:22:31 GMT 1
I've rarely not voted conservative in the years I've been old enough to vote. Everyone has a choice and we all have different opinions. I might not agree with someone else's but I wouldn't dream of being as rude or insulting as some on here. Welcome to the world of the left wing I've never understood why more voters of a left wing persuasion don't echo Tony Benn's views on the EU. He articulated his views on the problems of the EU brilliantly. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 8:26:50 GMT 1
So anyway, you had “thousands” of examples of legislation this government has been prevented by EU law from enacting. Just wondering whether you’re ready now to share any examples with your less enlightened brethren? You seemed reluctant to do so last time .... You must have missed the examples given at the time. Have a read back and educate yourself. Funny that. I must have missed these examples you have furnished us with. Refresh my memory of those that haven't already been ridiculed. |
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 8:40:42 GMT 1
You must have missed the examples given at the time. Have a read back and educate yourself. Funny that. I must have missed these examples you have furnished us with. Refresh my memory of those that haven't already been ridiculed. I've explained numerous times the impact that EU membership has on Parliament's legislative capabaility. If you still don't understand I can suggest some further academic reading if you so desire? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 8:47:51 GMT 1
Funny that. I must have missed these examples you have furnished us with. Refresh my memory of those that haven't already been ridiculed. I've explained numerous times the impact that EU membership has on Parliament's legislative capabaility. If you still don't understand I can suggest some further academic reading if you so desire? Can’t spesk for wookey but I’d appreciate some if you wouldn’t mind 👍 |
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 9:01:19 GMT 1
I've explained numerous times the impact that EU membership has on Parliament's legislative capabaility. If you still don't understand I can suggest some further academic reading if you so desire? Can’t spesk for wookey but I’d appreciate some if you wouldn’t mind 👍 You have already been given some. In fact you made a8 flippant comment about 'not being able to sleep at night'in respect of one. Thankfully the voters in 2016 didn't dismiss sovereignty in such a light hearted way. Still, each to their own. |
|
|
|
Post by percy on Jul 3, 2019 9:21:52 GMT 1
Aside from a warm glow that they have left the EU and somehow ‘regained control’I have not heard one leaver give a tangible example of how leaving would improve their day to day life. Can anyone help me out here so I can understand the prize that they are after ?
|
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 3, 2019 11:49:24 GMT 1
So anyway, you had “thousands” of examples of legislation this government has been prevented by EU law from enacting. Just wondering whether you’re ready now to share any examples with your less enlightened brethren? You seemed reluctant to do so last time .... You must have missed the examples given at the time. Have a read back and educate yourself. Still as arrogant as ever - good stuff from the man who proclaimed that he's never been wrong. Anyway, you failed conspicuously to provide a single example during the debate. Are you claiming to have done so afterwards? That would be convenient, if odd, timing. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 11:49:36 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 3, 2019 11:54:35 GMT 1
I don’t know who you’ve voted for, that’s true. But you do a good impersonation of a true, loyal Tory when you adopt the party’s arguments so readily. I apologise, of course, if you’re not a Tory because I understand how insulting that would be. I've rarely not voted conservative in the years I've been old enough to vote. Everyone has a choice and we all have different opinions. I might not agree with someone else's but I wouldn't dream of being as rude or insulting as some on here. You've never knowingly displayed much of a sense of humour either. Get off your high horse, you and your brethren make your fair share of disparaging remarks. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 3, 2019 11:55:25 GMT 1
I've rarely not voted conservative in the years I've been old enough to vote. Everyone has a choice and we all have different opinions. I might not agree with someone else's but I wouldn't dream of being as rude or insulting as some on here. Welcome to the world of the left wing More tea, vicar? Pot, kettle, black. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 3, 2019 11:57:03 GMT 1
Can’t spesk for wookey but I’d appreciate some if you wouldn’t mind 👍 You have already been given some. In fact you made a8 flippant comment about 'not being able to sleep at night'in respect of one. Thankfully the voters in 2016 didn't dismiss sovereignty in such a light hearted way. Still, each to their own. Great, point us to that one so we can take a look. Educate us. You know you want to. |
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 12:16:35 GMT 1
You have already been given some. In fact you made a8 flippant comment about 'not being able to sleep at night'in respect of one. Thankfully the voters in 2016 didn't dismiss sovereignty in such a light hearted way. Still, each to their own. Great, point us to that one so we can take a look. Educate us. You know you want to. I've already educated you. Try reading back a few pages. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 12:36:15 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents...  Lets hope there is some room for maneuver...  |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 3, 2019 12:38:00 GMT 1
|
|
Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
|
Post by Drew on Jul 3, 2019 12:49:34 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents... Lets hope there is some room for maneuver... Why is anyone interested in the Commission president? Days of difficult negotiations? This makes no sense. It's not like the Commission makes any decisions like determining the entire strategic and political direction of the entire European Union or anything. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 3, 2019 12:56:32 GMT 1
Great, point us to that one so we can take a look. Educate us. You know you want to. I've already educated you. Try reading back a few pages. Of course you have … Evasive as ever. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 3, 2019 13:44:46 GMT 1
Just in case you weren't aware, Brussels has been busy... Meet your new EU overlords......have no doubt that each and every one of them will be looking to show their true EU credentials early doors, suspect they will be more hard line than the previous incumbents... Lets hope there is some room for maneuver... Why is anyone interested in the Commission president? Days of difficult negotiations? This makes no sense. It's not like the Commission makes any decisions like determining the entire strategic and political direction of the entire European Union or anything. Indeed, on reading about the current ongoing process to elect the next Commission president (still to be ratified by the Parliament of course) you'll come across the word "powerful" a fair few times... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 13:52:10 GMT 1
It seems some people still haven't grasped the basic point that this isn't a party political issue. Both major parties, like the British people, were split down the middle and continue to be split.
|
|
