|
|
Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2019 18:29:11 GMT 1
One bit of bad news is that there may be a no confidence vote on the racist. Johnson? So soon? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows who the racist is. I personally hope the idiot stays and drags Labour further left. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 18, 2019 18:31:19 GMT 1
Who knows what's happening but it is a concern when you read stuff like this... CIVIL SERVANTS “TOTALLY MISLEADING” PUBLIC ON COST OF LEAVING CUSTOMS UNION
...because its slowly but surely eroding any confidence anyone has in the information that is being pushed out there. The worry is we're going to ignore something because of the amount of misleading information available only to get caught out big time..  We must simply choose our sources carefully. The report today is a forecast from the Office of Budget Responsibility, an independent public body given the task of scrutinising UK public finances. They produce forecasts twice a year and, as far as forecasts go, they’re authoritative - they have no political or economic axe to grind. This one should disturb us because it forecasts a decline in public revenues well beyond the saving of our EU subscription. Brexiteers always over-simplify the EU membership financial cost - we pay in x, we get back y, therefore we’d be richer if we left. Of course it’s more complex. If growth is lower than if we stayed in, our tax revenues & public finances will suffer, debt and borrowing will increase and public services will decline further. Austerity will continue unless a government decides high borrowing levels aren’t the main concern. The way Johnson & Hunt are throwing pretend money around at the moment perhaps they’re not. Brexiteers might dismiss this forecast, as they usually do, but as depressing as it is it’s worth noting that it’s more optimistic than the Treasury and IMF forecasts. The report to which you’ve linked comes from a body promoting a no deal brexit. Milford has always been a hired hand for this and it lists amongst its “advisers” Jacob Rees Mogg and Owen Paterson. Unlike the OBR, the Treasury and the IMF, it’s thus pushing an overt political agenda. Anything it says should be read in that context. Independent it is not. As I say, we should all check and choose our information sources carefully. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 18, 2019 18:37:10 GMT 1
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows who the racist is. I personally hope the idiot stays and drags Labour further left. As critical as I am of Corbyn, anyone with an ounce of sense knows he isn’t a racist. On the other hand, we have from Johnson, ”watermelon smiles”, “piccaninnies”, “letter boxes” - the kind of person who would use such language in a political context, however casually, has a serious question to answer when it comes to the question of racism. Point me to an equivalent example from Corbyn and I might take you more seriously. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 19:17:14 GMT 1
Anyone with an ounce of sense And there lays your problem 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jul 18, 2019 19:47:20 GMT 1
Head and sand certainly do come to mind What we were told - 800,000 job losses just on a vote to leave Reality - record high employment with higher growth than most of the EU 27 Go figure Have a word with car workers in Swindon and Sunderland, they may see things slightly differently! Try again Sir and stop peddling the usual boring Remain lies www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-47287386“Nothing to do with Brexit” www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-47542011“Pulling the brand out of Western Europe” |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jul 18, 2019 20:06:55 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 20:10:17 GMT 1
Gosh, Valery quoting the bbc as a source of factual reporting. That is impressive 😂 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 20:12:11 GMT 1
Blimey, the dregs of telford will be busy polishing their jack boots tonight! |
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Jul 18, 2019 20:24:55 GMT 1
Think any report quoting Patrick Minford as an “expert” should ring a few alarm bells I’ve been reading reports on all kinds of impacts of brexit for the last three years and have seen none that back up these kind of theories - he’s kind of the flat earth scientist of the economic world At some point we need to start taking account of the expert opinions out there if the U.K. is to face the problems head on and make brexit a success of some sort. Who and what can you trust. That's becoming a bit of a problem. It really isn’t though is it? All the major economic reports on brexit list their evidence base; sample sizes and parameters in which they are making their predictions. A lot use open source data that you can down load and analyse for yourself None of them claim to be an absolute prediction of the future but but over the last few years all of them are coming to similar conclusions that any form of brexit will reduce GDP; impact on companies that import and export and affect the ability of companies to recruit staff. All these need serious government policy to address them which so far we’re not seeing I’ve no problem with the U.K. delivering brexit but there really needs to be a collective willingness to tackle the tough issues ahead head on, not just hoping they go away by pretending everything is rosy |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 21:00:20 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 21:59:01 GMT 1
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows who the racist is. I personally hope the idiot stays and drags Labour further left. Low on grams of sense too I suppose according to your logic, but I thought you meant Trump, though they call it impeachment over there. If you stop believing right wing media you would find that the Labour leader does not have a racist bone in his body. His only fault on this score is maybe he too trusting that everyone else is fair, decent and reasonable. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 22:03:34 GMT 1
I hope they get a great turn out to see them for what they are, preferably with Anne Widdicombe as a guest speaker. |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 18, 2019 23:14:34 GMT 1
Think a bit harder, sir, and don’t take press releases at face value. Nissan, Panasonic, Sony, Honda - it’s funny that all these Japanese companies, long-standing investors and employers in the UK, should suddenly find compelling business reasons to restructure away from this country. Of course there’s unlikely to be one single reason. But the Japanese don’t seem to go in for mixing politics and business or stirring up controversy, so they’re unlikely to say “it’s brexit”. But read around those articles and it’s evident that brexit is a factor. How could it not be? A manufacturing business entirely dependent on an international network of just-in-time component suppliers, huge political uncertainty and a realistic prospect of that supply chain being massively disrupted - you expect us to believe that isn’t affecting Japanese (& other) corporate planning? Yeah, sure, just a remainer lie if you like. Keep researching those press releases ... |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 18, 2019 23:22:08 GMT 1
Ah, shame, I’ve got something else on that day .... and every day for the rest of my life ..... and for some time after that ..... I suppose it could be quite entertaining if they all still pretend it’s WWII and have those sirens going off. Do they whistle the Dambusters theme? Then again it might turn into one of those Trumpist Nuremberg rallies. Don’t like them at all. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 19, 2019 6:31:07 GMT 1
Who and what can you trust. That's becoming a bit of a problem. It really isn’t though is it? All the major economic reports on brexit list their evidence base; sample sizes and parameters in which they are making their predictions. A lot use open source data that you can down load and analyse for yourself None of them claim to be an absolute prediction of the future but but over the last few years all of them are coming to similar conclusions that any form of brexit will reduce GDP; impact on companies that import and export and affect the ability of companies to recruit staff. All these need serious government policy to address them which so far we’re not seeing I’ve no problem with the U.K. delivering brexit but there really needs to be a collective willingness to tackle the tough issues ahead head on, not just hoping they go away by pretending everything is rosy It really is. I think you have an awful lot more confidence in the independence of the sources of these predictions than I do. And I appreciate that none can claim to be 100% accurate, that goes with the territory and we saw that after the referendum. Despite what was predicated by some, the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave. We know we have to take these things with a bit of caution. And that's causing issues now because you get the feeling there is a real lack of confidence in such predictions. An awful lot of trust and confidence has been eroded. It's just one more negative of this whole mess. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 7:28:01 GMT 1
the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave. From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Jul 19, 2019 7:34:29 GMT 1
Gullible like the rest of the Brexiteers.... |
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on Jul 19, 2019 7:51:48 GMT 1
The panorama documentary was rather illuminating. Our those in government looked terrible, davis especially
|
|
|
|
Post by another fine mess on Jul 19, 2019 9:27:24 GMT 1
the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave. From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s thriving but it is in pretty decent shape – especially when compared with the rest of Europe.
- The deficit is down to about 1% (it was 10% at the crash)
- Unemployment (3.8%) is the slowest since the mid-1970s.
- Employment is at a record high.
- Youth unemployment is about 10%. That’s not good but way better than nearly everywhere else in Europe. Germany is about 5%, France 20%, Spain & Italy 30%, Greece 40%.
- Wages are growing (+3.4%)
- Inflation is low – still only about 2%. So that means wages are growing in real terms.
- In the latest GDP figures for the G7 countries, the UK economy is growing faster (1.8%) than Germany (0.7%), France (1.2%), Japan (0.8%) and Italy (0.1%).
None of this is to say that everything’s rosy and I accept that it may not feel that way to you individually. Nor is it to say that there aren’t problems with housing, health, crime, low wages etc. But, on almost any measure you take, Britain stacks up very well with elsewhere – in Europe or beyond.
Finally, the value of a county’s currency isn’t a measure of its economic health. We’d be better off than Europe and the US if it was. A falling currency presents challenges and opportunities, but it doesn’t seem to have hurt the UK economy since 2016. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 19, 2019 9:55:05 GMT 1
Brexit hasn't started yet. The pound is down because of sentiment about where our economy might be going.
The real problems start if just in time manufacturing and distribution is curtailed by borders. Financial institutions find they need to be based within the EU. Farmers lose subsidies and protection from cheap low animal health, high chemical use imports. Our fishing industry is over fished without EU rules and quotas.
Just run down everything we do in the way we do it now, then rip up the current rules. That's were we are heading, think that won't damage our economic health?
|
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on Jul 19, 2019 9:55:11 GMT 1
From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s thriving but it is in pretty decent shape – especially when compared with the rest of Europe.
- The deficit is down to about 1% (it was 10% at the crash)
- Unemployment (3.8%) is the slowest since the mid-1970s.
- Employment is at a record high.
- Youth unemployment is about 10%. That’s not good but way better than nearly everywhere else in Europe. Germany is about 5%, France 20%, Spain & Italy 30%, Greece 40%.
- Wages are growing (+3.4%)
- Inflation is low – still only about 2%. So that means wages are growing in real terms.
- In the latest GDP figures for the G7 countries, the UK economy is growing faster (1.8%) than Germany (0.7%), France (1.2%), Japan (0.8%) and Italy (0.1%).
None of this is to say that everything’s rosy and I accept that it may not feel that way to you individually. Nor is it to say that there aren’t problems with housing, health, crime, low wages etc. But, on almost any measure you take, Britain stacks up very well with elsewhere – in Europe or beyond.
Finally, the value of a county’s currency isn’t a measure of its economic health. We’d be better off than Europe and the US if it was. A falling currency presents challenges and opportunities, but it doesn’t seem to have hurt the UK economy since 2016. Do those figures include the £4.5 billion increase in borrowing on public spending from that's just been announced ? |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 19, 2019 10:33:26 GMT 1
the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave. From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
Where in my post did I state that the economy is thriving? Where have I given any indicitication that things are not only rosy, but very rosy from my viewpoint in Germany? So you put words into my mouth; you say I have said things that I haven't and then go on to dismiss what I haven't said because I happen to be in Germany.  My point is that before the referendum there were predications bouded about about what would happen if the referemdum result itself were to result in a vote for leave. Not leaving the EU itself but based on the referendum result. They haven't been exactly acurate have they? What I am getting at is what 'another fine mess' has already posted above. According to some that just shouldn't be happening. According to some things should be worse. Thats what I was getting at. That some of the predications made leading up the referendum haven't been played. 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jul 19, 2019 10:50:00 GMT 1
From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
Where in my post did I state that the economy is thriving? Where have I given any indicitication that things are not only rosy, but very rosy from my viewpoint in Germany? So you put words into my mouth; you say I have said things that I haven't and then go on to dismiss what I haven't said because I happen to be in Germany. Eh?! My point is that before the referendum there were predications bouded about about what would happen if the referemdum result itself were to result in a vote for leave. Not leaving the EU itself but based on the referendum result. They haven't been exactly acurate have they? What I am getting at is what 'another fine mess' has already posted above. According to some that just shouldn't be happening. According to some things should be worse. Thats what I was getting at. That some of the predications made leading up the referendum haven't been played. 👍 Ah, the old “where did I say”, “you put words in my mouth” schtick. I could ask you where did he say “you said that blah blah blah” but then it’d be silly. Perhaps you think it strengthens your argument to undermine your interlocutor, I dunno. But he clearly asked you which bits of the economy are thriving. It’s a question - make it rhetorical if you like but no need to imply he’s trying to put words in your mouth. He said it might look very rosy from your viewpoint, not that you said it was. That’s a valid point, especially in view of the well reasoned post from another fine mess. It’s almost as if you were putting words in his mouth ..... |
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 19, 2019 11:35:46 GMT 1
I've seen an article about the effect of 'no deal' on British farming and fishing in the current Private Eye which makes worrying reading for an agricultural county like Salop.
"in the event of no deal UK farmers would immediately face daunting export tariffs on anything they currently send to the EU...UK lamb would effectively be shut out of the EU's internal market. DEFRA has a contingency plan that could require the slaughter and burial of up to 9 million lamb carcasses.
Potentially more damaging to UK farmers is cheap food could be imported as WTO rules replace EU regulations, hence Hunt's suggestion that British food exporters should be treated like the banking sector during the 2008 financial crisis.
Under WTO rules would Hunt actually have the right to support UK farmers?
WTO members cannot decide their own farm subsidies unilaterally, a spokesman for the International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development said that Hunt's compensation proposal is illegal. This undermines the belief of many Leavers that Brexit represents 'taking back control' of UK trade policy"
For the sake of brevity I have edited the article slightly, but I believe that I have summarised accurately
|
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 19, 2019 11:45:05 GMT 1
Where in my post did I state that the economy is thriving? Where have I given any indicitication that things are not only rosy, but very rosy from my viewpoint in Germany? So you put words into my mouth; you say I have said things that I haven't and then go on to dismiss what I haven't said because I happen to be in Germany. Eh?! My point is that before the referendum there were predications bouded about about what would happen if the referemdum result itself were to result in a vote for leave. Not leaving the EU itself but based on the referendum result. They haven't been exactly acurate have they? What I am getting at is what 'another fine mess' has already posted above. According to some that just shouldn't be happening. According to some things should be worse. Thats what I was getting at. That some of the predications made leading up the referendum haven't been played. 👍 Ah, the old “where did I say”, “you put words in my mouth” schtick. I could ask you where did he say “you said that blah blah blah” but then it’d be silly. Perhaps you think it strengthens your argument to undermine your interlocutor, I dunno. But he clearly asked you which bits of the economy are thriving. It’s a question - make it rhetorical if you like but no need to imply he’s trying to put words in your mouth. He said it might look very rosy from your viewpoint, not that you said it was. That’s a valid point, especially in view of the well reasoned post from another fine mess. It’s almost as if you were putting words in his mouth ..... It doesn't strengthen any argument as that is not what I was referring to. I was pulled up on this... ...the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave.
To then suggest things might be rosy, very rosy to me over here or to ask what part of the economy is thriving is a strawman. That's not what I was referring to. It's that the economy is doing better than some predicted it would if the referendum resulted in a vote for leave (because of the reaction and uncertainty it might create). And because of those haven't been seen out, people are now turning off when it comes to such predictions because people have lost faith in those who are making them. And that ain't good. I think 'Another Fine Mess' sums it up well. And perhaps you have it right and I've misunderstood, perhaps that wasn't the intent of the comments made but then when looking to what was referenced and the point made; I'm not too sure why we're then talking about a thriving economy when it was clearly about one that isn't doing as bad as some predicated. 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 19, 2019 13:46:53 GMT 1
the UK economy is surpassing expectations after a result for leave. From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate. Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights. It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
"even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days" It doesn't bear thinking about that our "knights of the road" would probably have to supplement their earnings with other work like tractor driving, maybe even fruit picking. Sad that people might die as the result of working too long sleepy HGV drivers. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 14:28:39 GMT 1
From around $1.44 on 23rd of June 2016 the pound has dropped to anywhere between $1.18 and $1.32 since and is currently at $1.25 business rate.
Tourist rates are at best $1.23 and €1.10, in most places at least a cent or two lower and at airports both dollar and euro are around parity with the pound.
Could you tell me which bits of the economy are thriving, because I'm not seeing much. Half of the shopfloor staff at my employer have been made redundant this year. I get job updates daily from Jobsite and even jobs that would be classed as just below semi-skilled like HGV drivers, MHE operators and machine operators are paying little more than minimum wage these days and gone are the days of 20% or 30% shift allowance, a lot of places are giving an extra pound an hour for nights.
It might look very rosy from your viewpoint in Germany, but over here in the reality of it all, it ain't great and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon.
I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s thriving but it is in pretty decent shape – especially when compared with the rest of Europe.
- The deficit is down to about 1% (it was 10% at the crash)
- Unemployment (3.8%) is the slowest since the mid-1970s.
- Employment is at a record high.
- Youth unemployment is about 10%. That’s not good but way better than nearly everywhere else in Europe. Germany is about 5%, France 20%, Spain & Italy 30%, Greece 40%.
- Wages are growing (+3.4%)
- Inflation is low – still only about 2%. So that means wages are growing in real terms.
- In the latest GDP figures for the G7 countries, the UK economy is growing faster (1.8%) than Germany (0.7%), France (1.2%), Japan (0.8%) and Italy (0.1%).
None of this is to say that everything’s rosy and I accept that it may not feel that way to you individually. Nor is it to say that there aren’t problems with housing, health, crime, low wages etc. But, on almost any measure you take, Britain stacks up very well with elsewhere – in Europe or beyond.
Finally, the value of a county’s currency isn’t a measure of its economic health. We’d be better off than Europe and the US if it was. A falling currency presents challenges and opportunities, but it doesn’t seem to have hurt the UK economy since 2016. You quote Spain, Italy and Greece, what about Poland where youth unemployment has halved in the last 5 years to a little over 10%? Or Czech Republic sitting at around 5%. Croatia is admittedly at about 20% , but that's down from over 45% in the last 5 years. I accept that currency isn't a measure of economic growth or contraction, but it does make imports more expensive and someone has to pay for that increase. The importers, wholesalers and retailers can take the hit for a short time, but not indefinitely and if prices go up wages have to unless even more working people are to face food poverty. You say the deficit is down and yet it increased by £7billion in June, we have borrowed £17.9bn since April. Now call me an old cynic if you like, but it appears to me that the Tories have been trying to limit the impacts of Brexit for the past two years to serve their own purposes. |
|
|
|
Post by salop27 on Jul 19, 2019 14:54:06 GMT 1
I was getting worried then as I thought neilsalop had forgotten to blame the Conservatives for anything but he came good in the last few lines above 👍
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 19, 2019 15:46:44 GMT 1
I was getting worried then as I thought neilsalop had forgotten to blame the Conservatives for anything but he came good in the last few lines above 👍 True to form Martinshrew and salop27 jump to the Tories defence like race horses in blinkers. Open your eyes and minds to check out reality some time, sooner the better. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 18:12:58 GMT 1
I was getting worried then as I thought neilsalop had forgotten to blame the Conservatives for anything but he came good in the last few lines above 👍 Six years of Tory driven idealogical austerity leading to a hatred and mistrust of most politicians.
David Cameron calling a flawed referendum.
Cameron and Osbourne taking a win for granted.
Project Fear instead of pointing to the good and great things that being in the EU has brought to the country.
Lies on buses and Russian bots allowed to go uncontested by the law or the media
Theresa May calling an election and then effectively losing it.
Theresa May failling completely to negotiate a realistic deal.
So pray tell who else is at fault for this entire clusterf**k?
I'll wait.
|
|
