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Post by mattmw on Jul 18, 2019 8:37:47 GMT 1
The Migration Advisory Committee reports are a good source of information on that topic too. Research suggests that broadly there isn’t as much impact on the lowest 20% of earners as a result of immigration as is perhaps perceived. But it does have an impact or? I mean there is information out that that tells us that although the UK average wage may not have been impacted by immigration, when you dig deeper and look at specific areas of the labour market then there is an impact... How immigrants affect jobs and wages
Already mentioned the Southampton MP who way back when contacting Blair with his concerns about the impact the huge influx of workers from the EU8 were having on local wages in the construction industry. We have the builder in South Shields (when asked by John Harris of the Guardian) informing us that his hourly rate had come down by £3 an hour because there were now people in the industry who were prepared to do the work cheaper. We now have it reported that with competition going down, wages within the construction industry are rising... Construction pay rises as EU workers weigh up leaving UK – survey
From that we see... “We know that over a third of European construction workers who are already here have considered leaving the UK due to Brexit.
“This should be of huge concern to industry leaders and the government, especially in the capital, where nearly one in three people working in London’s construction sector were born in the EU.
“The shrinking pool of EU talent is already driving up wages – that’s the power of supply and demand. This builder Brexodus is the referendum’s inheritance.”When you look to that what I have highlighted, isn't it about getting the balance right between the two? And perhaps a good few people thought the only way that could be achieved was if immigration is managed differently, as to help bring about that balance. As the status quo wasn't going to do so, more of the same wasn't going to change anything? So when it does come to employers, business and the public (I gather with this you mean employees and those in the labour market) then it is going to be a difficult balance. I suppose the argument made however, by those who voted for Brexit, is if the UK does leave the EU, at least the UK would have full control on how it is implemented. But I am sure you are absolutely right, they'll struggle to please everyone. 👍 The studies on the Full Fact site, many of which are from the Migration Advisory Committee, do show a small impact on wages of the lowest paid of immigration, but its not conclusive and where shown its relatively small levels. Between about 0.3% and 1% depending on the field of work. But some studies also show a growth in wages of a similar 0.3% to 1% for the lowest paid where immigration levels are high. Most studies show that immigration also improves the overall productivity of the UK which itself increases wages. Productivity in the UK has been pretty static since 2008 when the financial crash happened and had been starting to grow, but fell again post brexit. Clearly any country needs some system for monitoring and controlling immigraton, but its actual impact on wages based on studies undertaken is fairly minimal. But those controls also have a cost to them and if a whole new system of visas and points systems for immigration are to be set up that has a cost to the Government too. If your going to spend millions setting up such as system the government has got to be pretty sure its based on hard evidence, not just the whim of the public. Going back to the Shropshire example less than 60% of our population is of working age, and unemployment levels are low with only around 4000 people in the county registered as unemployed. Yet annually around 30,000 job vacancies are advertised in the county. Even if we force the unemployed into those roles we still need people from outside Shropshire, and possibly outside the UK, to come here and fill those roles, particularly in some fields like the care, health and building industry where there is a real lack of suitably qualified staff |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 9:59:48 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:00:23 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. Keep calm and carry on, we're British don't you know. Even when Scotland and maybe Wales and Northern Ireland decide to leave the UK to be with the EU we will still be English. |
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:13:14 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 11:21:22 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. We haven't left yet and haven't you noticed we are already worse off due to the falling in the value of the pound. I see no Elysian fields even on the distant horizon. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 11:22:01 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. Thank goodness for that! |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:22:59 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. The words "head" and "sand" come to mind. What materially changed as the result of the vote? Nothing. What materially changes after leaving? Everything. |
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 18, 2019 11:26:00 GMT 1
A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. The words "head" and "sand" come to mind. What materially changed as the result of the vote? Nothing. What materially changes after leaving? Everything. Head and sand certainly do come to mind What we were told - 800,000 job losses just on a vote to leave Reality - record high employment with higher growth than most of the EU 27 Go figure |
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:27:33 GMT 1
A vote to leave back in 2016 was going to plunge us into an immediate recession, no shocks it didn't. I won't be taking too much notice. The words "head" and "sand" come to mind. What materially changed as the result of the vote? Nothing. What materially changes after leaving? Everything. It was stated that just a vote to leave (not actually leaving) would place us into an immediate recession, it didn't. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:30:51 GMT 1
But it does have an impact or? I mean there is information out that that tells us that although the UK average wage may not have been impacted by immigration, when you dig deeper and look at specific areas of the labour market then there is an impact... How immigrants affect jobs and wages
Already mentioned the Southampton MP who way back when contacting Blair with his concerns about the impact the huge influx of workers from the EU8 were having on local wages in the construction industry. We have the builder in South Shields (when asked by John Harris of the Guardian) informing us that his hourly rate had come down by £3 an hour because there were now people in the industry who were prepared to do the work cheaper. We now have it reported that with competition going down, wages within the construction industry are rising... Construction pay rises as EU workers weigh up leaving UK – survey
From that we see... “We know that over a third of European construction workers who are already here have considered leaving the UK due to Brexit.
“This should be of huge concern to industry leaders and the government, especially in the capital, where nearly one in three people working in London’s construction sector were born in the EU.
“The shrinking pool of EU talent is already driving up wages – that’s the power of supply and demand. This builder Brexodus is the referendum’s inheritance.”When you look to that what I have highlighted, isn't it about getting the balance right between the two? And perhaps a good few people thought the only way that could be achieved was if immigration is managed differently, as to help bring about that balance. As the status quo wasn't going to do so, more of the same wasn't going to change anything? So when it does come to employers, business and the public (I gather with this you mean employees and those in the labour market) then it is going to be a difficult balance. I suppose the argument made however, by those who voted for Brexit, is if the UK does leave the EU, at least the UK would have full control on how it is implemented. But I am sure you are absolutely right, they'll struggle to please everyone. 👍 Most studies show that immigration also improves the overall productivity of the UK which itself increases wages. But whose wages? Everyone's wages? Where is the information on that? That immigration also improves the overall productivity of the UK which itself increases wages? Are we are talking about everyone's wage, in all areas of the labour market? We can and should continue to focus on what is good about immigration but as long as there are people who do not see this working for them then things like Brexit will happen. And clearly there are people out there. As for what we will see going forward; people will still be able to come to the to the UK to live and work. People still want to come to the UK to live and work. I mean for all the talk of the numbers after the referendum there is still net immigration from the EU. I mean it has fallen but in 2018 it was still 74,000. Its still a pretty big number. And looking to the stats it is driven by immigration from the EU15. Immigration from the EU8 now in decline, more people from the EU8 left than came to the UK to work. I guess that's why we see the increase in wages in the construction industry (which does kinda suggest a correlation to numbers and wages). In addition to that, the numbers of non-EU people arriving to work is increasing. Immigration isn't going to stop. It just might well end up being managed differently if Brexit comes about. And perhaps that might well produce a better immigration policy and outcome for those UK citizens who feel it's not working for them currently (as well as employers and businesses and everyone else within the labour market). They're never going to be able to please everyone of course but perhaps with it being in the UK's own hands, they can make the best fist of doing so... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 11:37:10 GMT 1
I know this one sir, was it £350million a week for the nhs? |
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:37:36 GMT 1
One bit of bad news is that there may be a no confidence vote on the racist. The longer he stays, the longer Labour stay out of power.
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2019 11:39:07 GMT 1
The words "head" and "sand" come to mind. What materially changed as the result of the vote? Nothing. What materially changes after leaving? Everything. Head and sand certainly do come to mind What we were told - 800,000 job losses just on a vote to leave Reality - record high employment with higher growth than most of the EU 27 Go figure You're wasting your time trying to educate simple folk like Matron. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 18, 2019 12:06:39 GMT 1
Who knows what's happening but it is a concern when you read stuff like this... CIVIL SERVANTS “TOTALLY MISLEADING” PUBLIC ON COST OF LEAVING CUSTOMS UNION
...because its slowly but surely eroding any confidence anyone has in the information that is being pushed out there. The worry is we're going to ignore something because of the amount of misleading information available only to get caught out big time..  |
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 18, 2019 12:41:59 GMT 1
The words "head" and "sand" come to mind. What materially changed as the result of the vote? Nothing. What materially changes after leaving? Everything. Head and sand certainly do come to mind What we were told - 800,000 job losses just on a vote to leave Reality - record high employment with higher growth than most of the EU 27 Go figure Have a word with car workers in Swindon and Sunderland, they may see things slightly differently! |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 12:49:01 GMT 1
Who knows what's happening but it is a concern when you read stuff like this... CIVIL SERVANTS “TOTALLY MISLEADING” PUBLIC ON COST OF LEAVING CUSTOMS UNION
...because its slowly but surely eroding any confidence anyone has in the information that is being pushed out there. The worry is we're going to ignore something because of the amount of misleading information available only to get caught out big time.. Best not to read them, it could be bad for your blood pressure. The one thing that really matters is that we are in a time of uncertainty. Had we stayed in the EU we would not be. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 12:52:46 GMT 1
Head and sand certainly do come to mind What we were told - 800,000 job losses just on a vote to leave Reality - record high employment with higher growth than most of the EU 27 Go figure You're wasting your time trying to educate simple folk like Matron. Owww 😪 |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 18, 2019 12:53:43 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 13:49:33 GMT 1
You're wasting your time trying to educate simple folk like Matron. Owww 😪 I feel it's wrong, and I am sure Matron will agree with me, that people should be ridiculed on this board for their obvious shortcomings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 13:56:07 GMT 1
I feel it's wrong, and I am sure Matron will agree with me, that people should be ridiculed on this board for their obvious shortcomings. 😂👍 |
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Post by salop27 on Jul 18, 2019 14:18:00 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. Don't panic!!! This is a report full off worst case scenarios! Keep calm and stay positive 😁👍😉 |
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Post by mattmw on Jul 18, 2019 14:20:25 GMT 1
Who knows what's happening but it is a concern when you read stuff like this... CIVIL SERVANTS “TOTALLY MISLEADING” PUBLIC ON COST OF LEAVING CUSTOMS UNION
...because its slowly but surely eroding any confidence anyone has in the information that is being pushed out there. The worry is we're going to ignore something because of the amount of misleading information available only to get caught out big time.. Think any report quoting Patrick Minford as an “expert” should ring a few alarm bells I’ve been reading reports on all kinds of impacts of brexit for the last three years and have seen none that back up these kind of theories - he’s kind of the flat earth scientist of the economic world At some point we need to start taking account of the expert opinions out there if the U.K. is to face the problems head on and make brexit a success of some sort. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 14:27:15 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. Don't panic!!! This is a report full off worst case scenarios! Keep calm and stay positive 😁👍😉 Thank goodness. Pretty much as I thought. Keep calm and carry on, we're British don't you know. Even when Scotland and maybe Wales and Northern Ireland decide to leave the UK to be with the EU we will still be English. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 14:29:40 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49027889Frankly I think this is all scaremongering and project fear, and can’t wait for some reassurance from Salop27 with his unique blend of common-sense and optimism. Don't panic!!! This is a report full off worst case scenarios! Keep calm and stay positive 😁👍😉 Good man, that’s the spirit 😂👍 |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 18, 2019 14:36:39 GMT 1
Who knows what's happening but it is a concern when you read stuff like this... CIVIL SERVANTS “TOTALLY MISLEADING” PUBLIC ON COST OF LEAVING CUSTOMS UNION
...because its slowly but surely eroding any confidence anyone has in the information that is being pushed out there. The worry is we're going to ignore something because of the amount of misleading information available only to get caught out big time.. Think any report quoting Patrick Minford as an “expert” should ring a few alarm bells I’ve been reading reports on all kinds of impacts of brexit for the last three years and have seen none that back up these kind of theories - he’s kind of the flat earth scientist of the economic world At some point we need to start taking account of the expert opinions out there if the U.K. is to face the problems head on and make brexit a success of some sort. Who and what can you trust. That's becoming a bit of a problem. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 14:43:37 GMT 1
Think any report quoting Patrick Minford as an “expert” should ring a few alarm bells I’ve been reading reports on all kinds of impacts of brexit for the last three years and have seen none that back up these kind of theories - he’s kind of the flat earth scientist of the economic world At some point we need to start taking account of the expert opinions out there if the U.K. is to face the problems head on and make brexit a success of some sort. Who and what can you trust. That's becoming a bit of a problem. Trust no one. Just trust your own intuition. For example, I bet you knew smoking was bad for you years before all the "experts" confirmed it was. You either smoked or chose not to smoke based on your own personal decision. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2019 14:47:50 GMT 1
Don't panic!!! This is a report full off worst case scenarios! Keep calm and stay positive 😁👍😉 Good man, that’s the spirit 😂👍 Then raise the scarlet standard high Beneath it's folds we'll live and die Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the red flag flying here Oh, no, that's somehow wrong isn't it? |
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Post by scooter on Jul 18, 2019 17:03:25 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 17:04:44 GMT 1
The Panorama document tonight might be quite interesting. |
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Post by venceremos on Jul 18, 2019 18:01:42 GMT 1
One bit of bad news is that there may be a no confidence vote on the racist. Johnson? So soon? |
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