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Post by jamo on Dec 1, 2015 23:03:01 GMT 1
Everybody, literally everybody in the ground saw Blacks second yellow card coming way, way before the final act except it seems our management team. Shocking.Absolutely shocking. It cost us and cost us dearly as we completely folded after going down to 10 men.
Make no bones about it they were better than us but until that moment it looked like we could conceivably get something from the game, after the sending off we were dead and buried.
Have a a bloody word with yourself Mellon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 23:05:36 GMT 1
Even worse was keeping Grando on when he was plainly unfit/injured/knackered.
**** poor Mellon.
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Post by mattmw on Dec 1, 2015 23:08:45 GMT 1
Disappointing night all round, but totally agree the Black situation should have been nipped in the bud as soon as he got the first yellow (which itself was stupid)
Really like Blacks energy and him getting stuck in but tonight's red was totally deserved and amazed the manager didn't see it coming
Perhaps more disappointing is the fact Walsall bossed the game and we were second best in most departments. Defence looked knackered after 60 minutes and don't recall us creating a single chance in the second half
Hopefully best part of a week off will see us have more zip in the side for the cup game as if we play like tonight at Grimsby we are going to struggle
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Post by suttonshrew on Dec 1, 2015 23:13:23 GMT 1
Actually quite angry, not about black (although your right) but about Grando
4 times I counted him asking to come off, first being after about 50 mins and was ignored.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 23:17:52 GMT 1
Wasn't at the game, and it seems MM should have seen it coming, but surely it's Black who should be getting some stick. An experienced pro who knows his style will pick up yellows gets one for throwing the ball away? Doesnt the blame starts with him? As I say, wasn't there so interested in what others think.
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Post by osprey on Dec 1, 2015 23:23:49 GMT 1
A few things worried me tonight. As has been said, the Black sending off was inevitable after his first booking, anyone with any football nous could see it coming miles away. Gerrard having a right good go at Lieutwiler looked bad, no harmony there. Then we have Grandison doing his best, he had a good first half, but absolutely knackered second half as was almost begging to be subbed. Then we have the minor set to between the Goal-keeping coach and Jackson, plus Mellons demeanour at the end of the match. Alls NOT well at Wycherley Towers.
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Post by jamo on Dec 1, 2015 23:26:44 GMT 1
Wasn't at the game, and it seems MM should have seen it coming, but surely it's Black who should be getting some stick. An experienced pro who knows his style will pick up yellows gets one for throwing the ball away? Doesnt the blame starts with him? As I say, wasn't there so interested in what others think. It's a fair point about Black taking responsibility for his actions but from a players perspective you are caught up in the game and not totally aware of the bigger picture. The manager is standing on the touch line observing everything and has responsibility for the whole team and tactics with the ability to influence everything, Mellon cocked up big time tonight and we paid the price. I was observing him for a while before the sending if and he appeared completely bereft of ideas and influence- and I am a Mellon fan ! |
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Post by TonyKellysBelly on Dec 1, 2015 23:35:22 GMT 1
For me Black getting a red card has been coming for weeks. Poor discipline from the player, deserved what he got and it's disappointing to see him arguing and not leaving the pitch...shameful
Poor decisions by management for me.
MM needs to sort out the midfield, we get nothing going forward from playing Black and Agogo together.
I'm also struggling to see where the 'lightning pace' is we are told we have, from the last 2 home games I think we have struggled to stay with the opposition, Gillingham closed us down at every opportunity and Walsall just had too much pace for us in all areas of the pitch.
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Post by shrewsfan71 on Dec 1, 2015 23:36:18 GMT 1
I would agree that neither Black nor Mellon are blameless, but you have to wonder whether it would have happened had the ref not missed a blatant foul on him 10 seconds earlier. And also if his assistant had not missed what was a clear throw in for us which his hapless boss then gave to them and they scored from the corner about 30 seconds later. Not saying we deserved anything from the game, but neither incident did us any favours.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 23:39:50 GMT 1
Everybody, literally everybody in the ground saw Blacks second yellow card coming way, way before the final act except it seems our management team. Shocking.Absolutely shocking. It cost us and cost us dearly as we completely folded after going down to 10 men. Make no bones about it they were better than us but until that moment it looked like we could conceivably get something from the game, after the sending off we were dead and buried. Have a a bloody word with yourself Mellon. Absolutely spot on post. Regardless of whether the 2nd was a yellow or not, the 1st was downright stupidity and he was a red card waiting to happen after that. Clear to everyone that Lawrence should have come on for him. Up and until then I thought we could have scraped a draw that we didn't deserve. |
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Post by onthepitch on Dec 1, 2015 23:40:23 GMT 1
Every game I've seen Black play someone has said he'll get sent off, and he hasn't.. Should he be taken off every time he gets a yellow card then?? Or should any player??
Reality is he needs to watch his ****ing chopsing all the while and niggly s**t and if on a yellow engage his brain!
Grandison was ****ing awful again tonight, the lad goes on one run up the pitch and he's ****ed... Saw Gerrard and Collins bollocking him... Think their first goal may have been somewhat down to him. Liability plain and simple, sorry.
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Post by mattmw on Dec 1, 2015 23:41:52 GMT 1
Have to say the set up of our defence for their second was terrible too - ball went over two to three defenders and their player had a free header too. Even then think our defender moved off the line
Defence worked hard but Gerrard, Grandison and NKP looked knackered and were far too deep, Brown got little support either
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Post by suttonshrew on Dec 1, 2015 23:47:20 GMT 1
Feel a little for the two centre backs as Grando is obviously injured and has been for some time and brown whilst improving isn't a left back. Positionally they are both all over the place and the centre backs just get pulled all over the place.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 23:49:25 GMT 1
Every game I've seen Black play someone has said he'll get sent off, and he hasn't.. Should he be taken off every time he gets a yellow card then?? Or should any player?? Reality is he needs to watch his ****ing chopsing all the while and niggly s**t and if on a yellow engage his brain! Grandison was ****ing awful again tonight, the lad goes on one run up the pitch and he's ****ed... Saw Gerrard and Collins bollocking him... Think their first goal may have been somewhat down to him. Liability plain and simple, sorry. Black is far from blameless and obviously has that nasty streak in him which means he will pick up bookings and dare I say a few reds (taking Jacobs out at Wigan was an "interesting" one) but in a local derby where passions run high (allegedly....) for me it was a no brainer to take him off |
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Post by SheffieldShrew on Dec 1, 2015 23:53:25 GMT 1
Cracking tackle by Black in the build up to our goal. He plays 'on the edge' so will find trouble now and again unfortunately.
First booking was needless however, second one harsh having seen it back.
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Post by onthepitch on Dec 1, 2015 23:56:23 GMT 1
Every game I've seen Black play someone has said he'll get sent off, and he hasn't.. Should he be taken off every time he gets a yellow card then?? Or should any player?? Reality is he needs to watch his ****ing chopsing all the while and niggly s**t and if on a yellow engage his brain! Grandison was ****ing awful again tonight, the lad goes on one run up the pitch and he's ****ed... Saw Gerrard and Collins bollocking him... Think their first goal may have been somewhat down to him. Liability plain and simple, sorry. Black is far from blameless and obviously has that nasty streak in him which means he will pick up bookings and dare I say a few reds (taking Jacobs out at Wigan was an "interesting" one) but in a local derby where passions run high (allegedly....) for me it was a no brainer to take him off We desperately needed him on the pitch though. Him being sent off or subbed would have prob both ended up with us losing the game imo... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 0:04:27 GMT 1
Black is far from blameless and obviously has that nasty streak in him which means he will pick up bookings and dare I say a few reds (taking Jacobs out at Wigan was an "interesting" one) but in a local derby where passions run high (allegedly....) for me it was a no brainer to take him off We desperately needed him on the pitch though. Him being sent off or subbed would have prob both ended up with us losing the game imo... Yeh maybe. I don't think we deserved anything really and don't get me wrong I've been impressed with Black so far and think he could be a real asset, but he's going to be a liability at times as well. |
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Post by ellesmerian on Dec 2, 2015 0:05:20 GMT 1
Grando was knackered after every run forward and when he wasn't stuck forward recovering after each run, he was hopelessly out of position. This created all sorts of issues at the back. He was clearly both knackered and injured yet remained on the pitch whilst Dom Smith was sat on the bench.
The low point for me was looking at Grando stood with his hands on his hips on the edge of their box as their 3rd went in. We played a large chunk of the second half with only 9 men effectively.
I don't think MM should have taken Black off after the yellow, he was having a great game and would have been a loss had he come off. Black was stupidly gobby to the ref throughout, even after being called aside for it a couple of times. He could have easily picked up the yellow within 10 mins of kick-off and made a stupid lunging challenge to get sent off - that sort of challenge is always going to draw attention. But with his experience, he should have calmed down after the yellow. No fault of MM. It's what we read from the Rangers fans about Black and a real shame as he's quality. Massive turning point in the game - a game where we easily could have and should have picked up a point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 0:11:11 GMT 1
Black is far from blameless and obviously has that nasty streak in him which means he will pick up bookings and dare I say a few reds (taking Jacobs out at Wigan was an "interesting" one) but in a local derby where passions run high (allegedly....) for me it was a no brainer to take him off We desperately needed him on the pitch though. Him being sent off or subbed would have prob both ended up with us losing the game imo... If he had been subbed at least we would have ended up with 11 men and probably Lawrence coming on and hence more creativity in centre midfield which has been singularly lacking since Black's arrival. People are often critical of long balls which is effectively what we play, now, for most of the time. |
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Post by shrewsoftheworld on Dec 2, 2015 0:12:11 GMT 1
To be honest it was always a question of when not if black would be sent off in a game, he is that sort of player.
His first yellow was ridiculous and is what ultimately cost him. Having said that he has been superb before tonight and a real positive in recent games as he has got fitter.
Up to the second incident he had held back in a number of challenges and seemed to be keeping control and to be perfectly honest I wouldn't have taken him off.
The challenge gave the ref a decision to make but their 'big tough centre half' certainly played his part as he didn't actually touch him and he had a quick look to see who it was before collapsing like the proverbial sack of spuds.
Contrast that to a late studs up challenge by their bald centre half on grandison which had Jermaine had the nous (and energy) to make a meal of it could have resulted in a similar outcome.
As well as the sending off though the James Collins (nee collo!) miss at 1.0 was pivotal.
However this was another game in the middle of a tough run against (difficult to say) a very good footballing side who knocked it around very nicely even when we had 11 on the pitch. We battled our way into the contest though and it was pretty even (the equaliser was a huge deflection as well) until we went down to ten.
I personally thought Gerard and in particular NKP were good again tonight in very testing circumstances. We just didn't/couldn't keep the ball well enough.
The most painful thing of the lot though was listening to them lot make a decent racket and comparing it to the poor effort (as usual) from us.....
Ho hum
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Post by essofsteel on Dec 2, 2015 0:12:11 GMT 1
Brainless sending off which I think most fans saw coming. Walsall were very good, but Town played OK first half.
Why do professionals think that winding the ref up is a good idea??
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Dec 2, 2015 0:12:25 GMT 1
Correct, first booking was a shocker from Black. Throwing the ball away is too cheap and is asking for trouble later in the game particularly with his style of play. However culpable Mellon and Black were, Collins has to shoulder most of the blame. He puts that chance away two minutes prior to half time and going in 2-0 at the break would have brought a different outlook to the second half. As it happened, they went up the other end and we concede meaning Mellon's half time team takes a different slant. Not Leutwiler's best game either. Only seen their first goal in real time, but it seemed Leutwiler dived over the ball and Gerrard had every right to give him a bollocking for not collect a cross I the second half. I also thought he was at fault for not collecting the corner that led to their second. Anything three yards out, you would expect your goalkeeper to collect. I rate Leutwiler, maybe I'm being too critical owing to his previous excellent performances.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 0:16:56 GMT 1
Correct, first booking was a shocker from Black. Throwing the ball away is too cheap and is asking for trouble later in the game particularly with his style of play. However culpable Mellon and Black were, Collins has to shoulder most of the blame. He puts that chance away two minutes prior to half time and going in 2-0 at the break would have brought a different outlook to the second half. As it happened, they went up the other end and we concede meaning Mellon's half time team takes a different slant. Not Leutwiler's best game either. Only seen their first goal in real time, but it seemed Leutwiler dived over the ball and Gerrard had every right to give him a bollocking for not collect a cross I the second half. I also thought he was at fault for not collecting the corner that led to their second. Anything three yards out, you would expect your goalkeeper to collect. I rate Leutwiler, maybe I'm being too critical owing to his previous excellent performances. First goal completely wrong footed by a deflection and had no chance. |
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Dec 2, 2015 0:18:34 GMT 1
Okay will give him the benefit of the doubt. We were in block 19 so didn't have the greatest view!
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Post by onthepitch on Dec 2, 2015 0:20:56 GMT 1
We desperately needed him on the pitch though. Him being sent off or subbed would have prob both ended up with us losing the game imo... If he had been subbed at least we would have ended up with 11 men and probably Lawrence coming on and hence more creativity in centre midfield which has been singularly lacking since Black's arrival. People are often critical of long balls which is effectively what we play, now, for most of the time. And did any of Liam's creative passes find a player this evening or were they all woefully overhit? |
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Post by ellesmerian on Dec 2, 2015 0:23:02 GMT 1
Correct, first booking was a shocker from Black. Throwing the ball away is too cheap and is asking for trouble later in the game particularly with his style of play. However culpable Mellon and Black were, Collins has to shoulder most of the blame. He puts that chance away two minutes prior to half time and going in 2-0 at the break would have brought a different outlook to the second half. As it happened, they went up the other end and we concede meaning Mellon's half time team takes a different slant. Not Leutwiler's best game either. Only seen their first goal in real time, but it seemed Leutwiler dived over the ball and Gerrard had every right to give him a bollocking for not collect a cross I the second half. I also thought he was at fault for not collecting the corner that led to their second. Anything three yards out, you would expect your goalkeeper to collect. I rate Leutwiler, maybe I'm being too critical owing to his previous excellent performances. I agree about Leutwiler, but also have only seen it in real time. You'd like to think a keeper of his proven quality wouldn't have be beaten for their 1st - nice strike but predictable and a long way out with moderate power only. I thought his bollocking from Gerrard was deserved and good to see to be honest. There are some players who spend the whole match bollocking others and then there is Gerrard - not seem him him be anything but encouraging, but when he gives a bollocking, it's deserved it seems. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 1:20:57 GMT 1
Correct, first booking was a shocker from Black. Throwing the ball away is too cheap and is asking for trouble later in the game particularly with his style of play. However culpable Mellon and Black were, Collins has to shoulder most of the blame. He puts that chance away two minutes prior to half time and going in 2-0 at the break would have brought a different outlook to the second half. As it happened, they went up the other end and we concede meaning Mellon's half time team takes a different slant. Not Leutwiler's best game either. Only seen their first goal in real time, but it seemed Leutwiler dived over the ball and Gerrard had every right to give him a bollocking for not collect a cross I the second half. I also thought he was at fault for not collecting the corner that led to their second. Anything three yards out, you would expect your goalkeeper to collect. I rate Leutwiler, maybe I'm being too critical owing to his previous excellent performances. I agree about Leutwiler, but also have only seen it in real time. You'd like to think a keeper of his proven quality wouldn't have be beaten for their 1st - nice strike but predictable and a long way out with moderate power only. I thought his bollocking from Gerrard was deserved and good to see to be honest. There are some players who spend the whole match bollocking others and then there is Gerrard - not seem him him be anything but encouraging, but when he gives a bollocking, it's deserved it seems. No, no ,no, Leutwiler had absolutely no chance with their first goal . The Walsall lad tried to find the far corner and JL shifted his position to get across goal. Don't think it would have caused us any trouble to be honest but it took a massive deflection leaving JL completely wrong footed . Lucky isn't the word for it . Their second was down to p**s poor marking. A free header from about 4 yards , an absolute disgrace irrespective of us being down to 10 men . The third was just ballocks . What is wrong with Grandison , most of the second half he was blowing out of his arse . Oh well , we got beaten by a very good side but could have got a valuable point but with 10 men no bloody chance . Onward and Upward then . Lawrence will come in for Black but we have real problems at right back IMO . |
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Post by callum on Dec 2, 2015 1:42:48 GMT 1
Gerrard was right to have a go at Leutwiler for not coming for the corner,pity he didn't take it on board as the header for the 2nd was only about 4 yards out,should be coming for that.
How bad was Collins miss? On a par with Curtis Mains against Wolves I'd say.
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Post by biscuitin on Dec 2, 2015 8:15:11 GMT 1
Nice to know Gerrard still does what he does best. Causing disharmony in squads by giving his own players abuse. Wonderful team ethic, and just what you need in a relegation fight...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 9:05:42 GMT 1
If he had been subbed at least we would have ended up with 11 men and probably Lawrence coming on and hence more creativity in centre midfield which has been singularly lacking since Black's arrival. People are often critical of long balls which is effectively what we play, now, for most of the time. And did any of Liam's creative passes find a player this evening or were they all woefully overhit? You are getting him confused with virtually everyone in the starting XI who had 90 minutes of doing it. Lawrence only had 20 minutes and was hampered by the fact that he had less players to find. He was still getting on the ball and finding space. When did any of the others do that? |
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