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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 10:24:14 GMT 1
That is absolute *. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Hello again. I was indeed at Bury and would argue that the atmosphere was actually rather flat for a game of such magnitude. I will concede that the noise created when McIntyre equalised was outstanding, although large swathes of the game passed by in silence due to the travelling hoardes of seated supporters. I also refute your point about the 'imbeciles' wanting to stand. The Bury fixture was actually unreserved seating and those who were so desperate to sit down (and subsequently watch the match in silence) should have positioned themselves accordingly towards the front of the stand. There was a lot of selfishness that day and certainly not from the 'standers'.
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Post by theshrews81 on Sept 22, 2011 10:25:32 GMT 1
There has NEVER been a good atmosphere created by supporters sitting down. Get that through your head. That is absolute b*llox. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Also, the Milton Keynes away game that us to Wembley. Shame you missed that one as well. They were just two of the many examples I was going to throw back at this prat! The sooner some fans accept that they have to be considerate of others the better. This is not as much about me it is for my dad and the other people that loose out by people standing in ALL SEATER STADIUMS!!
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 22, 2011 10:27:11 GMT 1
That is absolute *. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Hello again. I was indeed at Bury and would argue that the atmosphere was actually rather flat for a game of such magnitude. I will concede that the noise created when McIntyre equalised was outstanding, although large swathes of the game passed by in silence due to the travelling hoardes of seated supporters. I also refute your point about the 'imbeciles' wanting to stand. The Bury fixture was actually unreserved seating and those who were so desperate to sit down (and subsequently watch the match in silence) should have positioned themselves accordingly towards the front of the stand. There was a lot of selfishness that day and certainly not from the 'standers'. Good post. I too agree that the Bury atmosphere has become something of a myth.
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Post by theshrews81 on Sept 22, 2011 10:27:23 GMT 1
That is absolute *. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Hello again. I was indeed at Bury and would argue that the atmosphere was actually rather flat for a game of such magnitude. I will concede that the noise created when McIntyre equalised was outstanding, although large swathes of the game passed by in silence due to the travelling hoardes of seated supporters. I also refute your point about the 'imbeciles' wanting to stand. The Bury fixture was actually unreserved seating and those who were so desperate to sit down (and subsequently watch the match in silence) should have positioned themselves accordingly towards the front of the stand. There was a lot of selfishness that day and certainly not from the 'standers'. Why in an all seater stadium should people who want to see the match be told where to sit? The better view for sitting at Bury is further back in the stand hence why the fans SIT their
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 10:32:59 GMT 1
Also, the Milton Keynes away game that us to Wembley. Shame you missed that one as well. I was also at MK Dons and remember that the majority of away fans stood that evening. The memorable atmosphere created was no coincidence. I'm still waiting for a valid example of an atmosphere which was created by Town fans whilst sitting down. Anymore for anymore?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 10:46:25 GMT 1
They were just two of the many examples I was going to throw back at this prat! The sooner some fans accept that they have to be considerate of others the better. This is not as much about me it is for my dad and the other people that loose out by people standing in ALL SEATER STADIUMS!! Firstly, I have swatted away Exkeeper's poorly-chosen examples with consummate ease. You also refer to the 'many examples' you have stored in your locker. Please share them with us all - I doubt you'll find a single occasion worth mentioning because ultimately you are wrong and I am correct. There has never been a good atmosphere created by supporters sitting down. I am also very considerate of other Shrewsbury supporters. I wouldn't dream of obscuring an elderly person's view and the same extends to young children. I remember at the Bradford match a couple of years ago, I positioned myself one row from the back. Within seconds of the match starting, I received a tap on the shoulder from a supporter sat behind me. This prick - along with his two children - had chosen to sit on the very back row. Despite my annoyance, I calmly sat down and joined the other 600 town fans who watched the game in silence. I have not advocated ruining anyone's match-day experience - I am simply pointing out that atmosphere and standing go hand in hand. You will always have some deluded loser arguing the toss and claiming that 'you can sing whilst sitting down'. Unfortunately this is nonsense and the culprit often manages to expose themselves as someone totally devoid of football understanding.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 22, 2011 10:48:50 GMT 1
Be good to hear more examples of where a decent atmosphere has been created by Town fans when standing, never mind seated. Can't be that many and I suspect whenever that’s come about its just coincidence. MK is always mentioned. Wxm away once or twice. Burton? Any others? Probably more down to the numbers attending than whether the fans were standing.
Let's face it, we don’t have the most boisterous of followings do we. And that goes back to when the vast majority were standing week in, week out.
Surely Bury away more tense rather than quiet (we were put through the mill that day)...
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Post by mattmw on Sept 22, 2011 10:58:39 GMT 1
Be good to hear more examples of where a decent atmosphere has been created by Town fans when standing, never mind seated. Can't be that many and I suspect whenever thatÂ’s come about its just coincidence. MK is always mentioned. Wxm away once or twice. Burton? Any others? Probably more down to the numbers attending than whether the fans were standing. Let's face it, we donÂ’t have the most boisterous of followings do we. And that goes back to when the vast majority were standing week in, week out. Surely Bury away more tense rather than quiet (we were put through the mill that day)... Good post - I can't recall too many games in the last ten years where Town fans have created a fantastic atmosphere, regardless of whether they are sat down or stood up. Everton at home in the cup, and when we came from 3.0 down to draw 3.3 with MK Dons are the only two that spring to mind. But then again the last ten years haven't been great and when we've had big games they have often been so tense that its effected the atmosphere - Stoke play-off final and the Bury play-off were examples of that. Ultimately I don't think Town fans will ever be the noisiest fans in the world, regardless of whether we are sat down or stood up. Clearly some people get upset by that - I'm not that fussed really as long as the team plays well I'm not too bothered if the opposition out sing us
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Post by Exkeeper on Sept 22, 2011 11:23:10 GMT 1
Dr. Amnesia will no doubt tell us that everyone stood up throughout the game at Stoke, or that the atmosphere was crap. Having revisited the match dvd oinly last week, I know both assumptions would be incorrect.
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Post by Exkeeper on Sept 22, 2011 11:29:07 GMT 1
As a point of interest, I can stand at matches, and frequently do where terraces still exist. However, being 6ft 1in I am aware that smaller people behind me won't see much of the game. When on terraces, either they are I can easily move, but at Arsenal this was not possible, so I sat in the seat provided, only to have my view obliterated by some less considerate soul in front of me.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Sept 22, 2011 11:39:38 GMT 1
Agree with Ex Keeper I enjoyed the elements of standing up at Arsenal and most games... but the Atmpshere was great at Arsenal for 90 mins and MOST of the time people were siting down in the vast majorty of the town end...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 12:40:40 GMT 1
I think the standard of atmosphere is more dependent on the people singing rather than if they're sitting or standing.
A good example is from Gay Meadow when the Away Supporters team used to sponsor a match once a season. They'd sit in the Wakeman stand and sing their hearts out (we're only talking about 20 people here), creating a great atmosphere. Gary Peters commented especially on this, saying how he thought it lifted his team in those fixtures.
At Arsenal, I agree with Glyn. The atmosphere was tremendous but not driven by people standing.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy standing at matches, but am just not convinced on the argument that no decent atmosphere is generated by seated supporters.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Sept 22, 2011 12:47:36 GMT 1
That is absolute b*llox. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Also, the Milton Keynes away game that us to Wembley. Shame you missed that one as well. They were just two of the many examples I was going to throw back at this prat! The sooner some fans accept that they have to be considerate of others the better. This is not as much about me it is for my dad and the other people that loose out by people standing in ALL SEATER STADIUMS!! I stood up for 90 mins at MK Dons as did everyone else in the block I was in.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 12:50:06 GMT 1
Oh and Southampton in the FA cup. Tremendous support, seemed like the majority were seated.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 22, 2011 12:50:11 GMT 1
Wasn't at Bury but was on the front row at MK. I was stood up for most of the 1st half and all of the 2nd. Everyone around me was stood up as well, I guess all the rows behind were stood up too to be able to see. Atmosphere was brilliant. None of this "sit down" b0ii0cks that night - pity about the Final at Wembley about a week or so later. Atmosphere was just so flat even when we were 1 up.
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Post by elmundo on Sept 22, 2011 13:46:14 GMT 1
Went to the Emirates with a mate of mine who travels home and away with West Ham and he commented at how easily our fans buckled to stewards requests to sit and how the atmosphere suffered as a result.
If only we could have the attitude of Premier League clubs where their away followings are always stood.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 13:56:19 GMT 1
Went to the Emirates with a mate of mine who travels home and away with West Ham and he commented at how easily our fans buckled to stewards requests to sit and how the atmosphere suffered as a result. If only we could have the attitude of Premier League clubs where their away followings are always stood. Would agree with that but would say its a lot easier to stand up to stewards (no pun intended) when backed by thousands of fans. Our fans are used to being in relatively small crowds so its easier for stewards to eject one or two individuals and people have that mindset. Whereas of course bigger clubs have the "we're a big club, we can do what we want" attitude. Also, from a stewards perspective its going to be easier to lay the law down to little old Shrewsbury Town fans, rather than fearsome East London West Ham
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Post by DiglisShrew on Sept 22, 2011 14:01:31 GMT 1
That is absolute *. I can only assume that you weren't at Bury for the play offs. Granted a few imbeciles tried standing, but most of them got the message, that other people behind them, may want to enjoy the game as well. Hello again. I was indeed at Bury and would argue that the atmosphere was actually rather flat for a game of such magnitude. I will concede that the noise created when McIntyre equalised was outstanding, although large swathes of the game passed by in silence due to the travelling hoardes of seated supporters. I also refute your point about the 'imbeciles' wanting to stand. The Bury fixture was actually unreserved seating and those who were so desperate to sit down (and subsequently watch the match in silence) should have positioned themselves accordingly towards the front of the stand. There was a lot of selfishness that day and certainly not from the 'standers'. Dr C , unless you have a twin brother or a double (in which case I apologise unreservedly !) my recollection of you at Bury was that : 1. you arrived in the ground relatively late with (or tagging along with ) a rather large group of "noisy" fans 2.who proceeded to stand in front of one of the lower section seats where some of our older fans (and small children) had been seated for a good 45 minutes ,I can introduce you to two of them who will tell you that their enjoyment of the game was ruined/ 3 when asked to sit down by the (admittedly inept stewards) repeatedly refused with the result that those fans whose view you were blocking had to be split up and moved !! Not you ?? Then sorry, its my poor memory or you are not the person I thought you were ! If you , then own up to being the "imbecile" and that any fans wanting to stand should make the effort to stand as far back as possible and get there early enuf to do so !
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Post by Fingers on Sept 22, 2011 14:26:20 GMT 1
Is it any coincedence that all these legendary atmospheres have been in games when we have something to play for (play-offs) or away against a team we are unlikely to face in the league anytime soon (Stoke, Arsenal, Southampton).
Whether you like it or not the laws in this country state that standing is not permitted in seated areas. There is no argument. Until the law changes if you are requested to sit down by a steward and do not do so then you face the consequences however I don't recall seeing anyone being thrown up for standing although I'm sure someone will have a recollection.
Bury away atmosphere wasn't all that during the first 89minutes - largely because we were outplayed. After the goal it was ok and at the final whislte everyones emotion was released.
Southampton was good (vast majority were seated, as at Stoke). I would also say a lot were seated for the Arsenal game. I felt sorry for those at the front of each block as the view isn't particularly great.
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Post by Valerioch on Sept 22, 2011 16:28:34 GMT 1
Maybe if all stadiums had a seating and standing option? An easy solution that sadly won't happen.
In my opinion, you 'seaters' can be as inconsiderate as us who prefer to stand. If you are going to an away game, why sit on the back row as someone (Doctor?) mentioned? Very inconsiderate to those who want to stand and actually create an atmosphere! I fail to see how anyone can enjoy silence but it appears alot of STFC fans do!
As for moaning about standing during a chance/exciting moment? That is pathetic! What does it take to get some people excited? Very glad I was able to stand throughout the Arsenal game!
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Post by Hippo on Sept 22, 2011 16:34:16 GMT 1
They had big-screen replays of all the important stuff, what's the problem?
Nah, i agree it's inconsiderate to persistently stand when there's no excitement, if there's people behind who aren't, and it's a bit weird when you see one individual doing it on their own because evidently that's nothing to do with singing and all about doing what they want and **** everyone else. But, without a doubt, the atmosphere does suffer from having everyone sat down. MK Dons and Bury are examples of this, if you recall them accurately.*
It IS harder to sing sitting down, and it's probably scientifically proven or something - how often are singers with booming voices sat, or indeed anyone doing anything expressive? Which you'd have to say this is. In a seat, you are definitely an individual; stood up, there's a sort of tribal collective about a football crowd. It's hard to explain, but if you've been to a Town game and have experienced both, you know this. Obviously it's technically possible to make noise sat down, but it just doesn't happen with any regularity. You feel weird.
People might argue that it's all about the game itself. It's deemed acceptable to stand in moments of excitement. The best atmospheres happen at exciting games by default. If there is more excitement, there is more standing. There is more noise. So that could just be the answer. Better game, better atmosphere. Standing is coincidence.
But. How much noise would there be in comparison to now if say, everyone stayed sat down throughout, even goals? Do people imagine a celebration would last as long? Or would it die down much quicker in to just clapping? What does that say about this whole argument? Are people sat down the same or more/less likely to make noise for an extended period? In your experience.
As far as i'm concerned, it's weird that that's even a debate. Everyone who goes to football matches knows the answer. Certainly everyone at Town games. The only area of consistant noise is the only area with persistent standing. Whether you wish to admit that is your own prerogative. It's not having a go at other areas, I don't sit there myself. It's just obvious.
*Bury: Atmosphere electric pre-game. Game kicks off. Everyone sits down. It dies instantly. No more buzz. Instantly. That's not about being outplayed or nervous, because those are gradual things. That lasted until ball bouncing around, TO MCINTYYYYRE when there'd have been noise whether we were stood up, sat down, or heaped at the side of the pitch in straightjackets, gagged.
MK Dons: Sat down first half, not a great atmosphere, probably some noise as it was a play off game but notoriously difficult away end to be heard. Half time, people latch on to 'Hey Jude', we stand most of the second half singing it, it's becomes something legendary. Result helps, but ya know.
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Post by gtismygod on Sept 22, 2011 16:46:44 GMT 1
Maybe if all stadiums had a seating and standing option? An easy solution that sadly won't happen. In my opinion, you 'seaters' can be as inconsiderate as us who prefer to stand. If you are going to an away game, why sit on the back row as someone (Doctor?) mentioned? Very inconsiderate to those who want to stand and actually create an atmosphere! I fail to see how anyone can enjoy silence but it appears alot of STFC fans do! As for moaning about standing during a chance/exciting moment? That is pathetic! What does it take to get some people excited? Very glad I was able to stand throughout the Arsenal game! spot on.
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Post by gtismygod on Sept 22, 2011 16:47:18 GMT 1
They had big-screen replays of all the important stuff, what's the problem? Nah, i agree it's inconsiderate to persistently stand when there's no excitement, if there's people behind who aren't, and it's a bit weird when you see one individual doing it on their own because evidently that's nothing to do with singing and all about doing what they want and **** everyone else. But, without a doubt, the atmosphere does suffer from having everyone sat down. MK Dons and Bury are examples of this, if you recall them accurately.* It IS harder to sing sitting down, and it's probably scientifically proven or something - how often are singers with booming voices sat, or indeed anyone doing anything expressive? Which you'd have to say this is. In a seat, you are definitely an individual; stood up, there's a sort of tribal collective about a football crowd. It's hard to explain, but if you've been to a Town game and have experienced both, you know this. Obviously it's technically possible to make noise sat down, but it just doesn't happen with any regularity. You feel weird. People might argue that it's all about the game itself. It's deemed acceptable to stand in moments of excitement. The best atmospheres happen at exciting games by default. If there is more excitement, there is more standing. There is more noise. So that could just be the answer. Better game, better atmosphere. Standing is coincidence. But. How much noise would there be in comparison to now if say, everyone stayed sat down throughout, even goals? Do people imagine a celebration would last as long? Or would it die down much quicker in to just clapping? What does that say about this whole argument? Are people sat down the same or more/less likely to make noise for an extended period? In your experience. As far as i'm concerned, it's weird that that's even a debate. Everyone who goes to football matches knows the answer. Certainly everyone at Town games. The only area of consistant noise is the only area with persistent standing. Whether you wish to admit that is your own prerogative. It's not having a go at other areas, I don't sit there myself. It's just obvious. *Bury: Atmosphere electric pre-game. Game kicks off. Everyone sits down. It dies instantly. No more buzz. Instantly. That's not about being outplayed or nervous, because those are gradual things. That lasted until ball bouncing around, TO MCINTYYYYRE when there'd have been noise whether we were stood up, sat down, or heaped at the side of the pitch in straightjackets, gagged.
MK Dons: Sat down first half, not a great atmosphere, probably some noise as it was a play off game but notoriously difficult away end to be heard. Half time, people latch on to 'Hey Jude', we stand most of the second half singing it, it's becomes something legendary. Result helps, but ya know.also a top post
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Sept 22, 2011 16:51:50 GMT 1
Im not sure its harder to sing sitting down... sat down for most of the game at Vale (and all home games) and Arsenal and made a decent contribution...
However certinly a lower % of people that want to sing who are "sitters".
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Post by mattmw on Sept 22, 2011 17:28:17 GMT 1
In my opinion, you 'seaters' can be as inconsiderate as us who prefer to stand. If you are going to an away game, why sit on the back row as someone (Doctor?) mentioned? Very inconsiderate to those who want to stand and actually create an atmosphere! I fail to see how anyone can enjoy silence but it appears alot of STFC fans do! Think part of that problem is that for away games you don't tend to get a choice where to sit when you buy your tickets. So the singers and sitters are often all mixed up. For the Arsenal game I got mine quite early so was near the front, and imagine quite a few regular fans - (who like a sing song) also got tickets early so were presumably issued with tickets near the front. As this is clearly an issue that rattles a few fans next time we get a big away game at an all seated away game it would be good if the club could make it clear where the seat you are purchasing is located, so singers can get them at the back and sitters nearer the front. Personally I'd also like an area designated for moaning and doom merchants like myself to sit in, but that might be pushing it a bit much.
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brombles
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Post by brombles on Sept 22, 2011 17:37:12 GMT 1
I apologise to anyone who's view I may have blocked in block 22 row 22. I can't help but get excited at football matches and stand up when the ball goes into the penalty area, I was after all raised on the riverside after being found in a blue and amber basket amongst the rushes so old habits die hard when it comes to standing at matches I guess.
I do try my best to be considerate of other people sitting behind me but most of the time I stand up is because everyone else in front of me stands up. I can safely say for at least 90% of football fans that it is a natural reaction to get excited and want to leap around on your feet when your team has a promising attack or scores a goal. This argument always raises it's head when Town fans are put in reserved seats, in my experience unreserved seating there is never any problem - I'm sure a lot of other clubs experience the same thing?
So ultimately, until away ends with reserved seating start having a family enclosure or start strapping down the more fidgety supporters there is no point debating/arguing about this topic. For those who had an obscured view for whatever reason I suggest you stop wasting your time grumbling on here. Maybe do something proactive instead like writing a letter to Arsenal FC or the football league and put the idea forward for football clubs to have an option of a family/elderly enclosure in the away end, like they do for their own supporters. if someone does actually do that and makes money from it then I want a share, alright? Ta, like.
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Post by Hippo on Sept 22, 2011 17:38:52 GMT 1
Im not sure its harder to sing sitting down... sat down for most of the game at Vale (and all home games) and Arsenal and made a decent contribution... However certinly a lower % of people that want to sing who are "sitters". Reserved/Unreserved seating probably contributes a bit too.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 22, 2011 18:41:00 GMT 1
I am also very considerate of other Shrewsbury supporters. I wouldn't dream of obscuring an elderly person's view and the same extends to young children. So is the accusation about you at Bury true or not?
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Post by eclipsechaser on Sept 22, 2011 18:52:23 GMT 1
For the record ..............the elderly and infirm should be given seats at the FRONT . I am sorry if it would upset you hypothetically but there was NO WAY i was ever going to sit down . This game is as big as it is ever going to get for us and the atmosphere was top class ONLY DUE TO THE FANS STANDING AND SINGING which is as per usual . There was a dad and his young son in our seats and there were four of us there so all we did was bunch up and let the kid continue standing on the seat . I await the response from the ill informed and the ' i live in a care home ' attitude .
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Post by mattmw on Sept 22, 2011 19:06:56 GMT 1
For the record ..............the elderly and infirm should be given seats at the FRONT . I am sorry if it would upset you hypothetically but there was NO WAY i was ever going to sit down . This game is as big as it is ever going to get for us and the atmosphere was top class ONLY DUE TO THE FANS STANDING AND SINGING which is as per usual . There was a dad and his young son in our seats and there were four of us there so all we did was bunch up and let the kid continue standing on the seat . I await the response from the ill informed and the ' i live in a care home ' attitude . Wouldn't just limit it to elderly and infirm, would give all fans the choice of whether to be in areas of the ground where their sitting or standing is going to be problematic. I'm 38 and prefer to sit during the game, but 100% realise others enjoy the game in a different way. We all enjoy the game in different ways so please don't assume I'm any less passionate about the side because I don't stand all match and sing.
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