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Post by R6ix on Nov 13, 2010 21:52:55 GMT 1
i remember when ever i was in northern ireland,was near to kilrea and on the 11th the police would always be in attendence at the war memorial cos the other side of town would be hell bent on tearing the wreaths n poppys up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 11:26:23 GMT 1
[If this is so then those gentle, peace loving folk should be in uproar that this tiny minority are making their religion look so terrible. But time after time, we see this kind of disrespect shown and if the Muslim world was as disgusted as we are then they shouldn't continue to stand by and let it continue. a bit like british catholics over the past 50 years of IRA actions?
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Post by mrbunny on Nov 14, 2010 13:18:38 GMT 1
The saddest thing about the story is we are not surprised and know nothing will be done about it yet if someone was to disrespect Islam in any way (not that that is correct either should i say) the authorities would come down on them quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 15:54:04 GMT 1
The saddest thing about the story is we are not surprised and know nothing will be done about it yet if someone was to disrespect Islam in any way (not that that is correct either should i say) the authorities would come down on them quickly. possibly because this story has f all to do with Islam? I believe that the law for any religious hate crime is the same in this country regardless of what that religion is. having said that, i believe it is true that most people who would place themselves into the bracket of "christian" dont actually take their religion very seriously or indeed respect that religion as much as your "average Muslim" respects theirs. so if the people of this country dont take their religion very seriously, why would the authorities?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 14, 2010 18:16:50 GMT 1
possibly because this story has f all to do with Islam? That is not true is it. Comments like that give the EDl all the ammunition they need. so if the people of this country dont take their religion very seriously, why would the authorities? That argument is nonsense. You appear to be saying the legality of particular comments or views or ways of expression is based on the ability of the people in question to be offended. The point being made is that (on the whole), people are unsure why the Muslim reaction to particular things is so great. Cartoons are a prime example. We are in a very dangerous position if the authorities only "act" based on the offence taken. That is why they failed to act in time in Luton and that is how the EDL was born.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 14, 2010 19:18:59 GMT 1
a bit like british catholics over the past 50 years of IRA actions? Agreed. Or maybe catholics everywhere even, rather than just British catholics ? If 'peace loving' catholics were more demanding of peace in their own religion then maybe the troubles in Ireland wouldn't have escalated to the levels they did. A case of the 'gun' overpowering the 'belief' maybe ?
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 14, 2010 19:37:16 GMT 1
so if the people of this country dont take their religion very seriously, why would the authorities? Because it's about respect. Many people don't give two flying figs about christianity but most people do care about respecting one another.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 14, 2010 19:45:41 GMT 1
Just a quick note, I managed as a Christian to march from the RBL to the church and back again today. I even displayed a poppy.
Phew.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 19:59:23 GMT 1
[That is not true is it. Comments like that give the EDl all the ammunition they need. So how is this story about Islam TBH? Was the birmingham pub bombing about catholicism?That argument is nonsense. You appear to be saying the legality of particular comments or views or ways of expression is based on the ability of the people in question to be offended. Does it? Im sure i said that the law for religeous hatred was the same irrelavant of what that faith is?The point being made is that (on the whole), people are unsure why the Muslim reaction to particular things is so great. Cartoons are a prime example. And my point is that, maybe the reason for that is that we westernised christians (on the whole) dont take our faith or religeon as seriously as Muslims do, and dont treat it with the same respect that Muslims treat Islam.We are in a very dangerous position if the authorities only "act" based on the offence taken. Well that suits me, lets start off by closing all the shops factories and offices that are open on a sunday and start as a nation, adhering to our religeon. Fact is that most people dont give a stuff about God and dont care about faith or religeon, but that doesnt and shouldnt mean that we should allow those that do have real faith and belief in their God (Allah) to be treated outside the law.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 14, 2010 23:06:50 GMT 1
So how is this story about Islam TBH? Was the birmingham pub bombing about catholicism? To the extent that it would be the responsibility of the Catholic Church to denounce the act, yes. Analogies with Ireland fail on the basis of its proximity and the Muslim view of land and nationhood. The IRA never planted bombs because we were at war with Italy in the 1940s. Does it? Im sure i said that the law for religeous hatred was the same irrelavant of what that faith is? As long as the government response is swayed by the level of offence taken by the injured party, then there will be a disparity. Take Jerry Springer the Opera. 63,000 people complained to the BBC. I can tell you 100% that had the Jesus portrayed in the story been Mohamed the BBC would not have shown it, the author would be under a Fatwa and there would have been civil disobedience. That feeds the agenda of the "Angry, white and proud" groups (BNP, EDL) who hijack the Christian heritage of this country to help their cause against Muslims. Anyhow, all we need is a firm, fair denouncement from the Muslim council of great Britain, maybe Baroness Warzi or whoever, and we will see how it pans out. When some nutcase American hate preacher was threatening to burn a Koran the Christian Church in the UK was unanimous and public in its clear and public dencouncement. We need the same within the Muslim community when extremists provoke others.
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Post by venceremos on Nov 15, 2010 15:09:19 GMT 1
Here's a point to ponder over ..............When a fanatical Islamic extremist commits such an insensitive act , Do you ever SEE or HEAR any oither Muslims condemning that act and speaking out against it ? In my experience they don't either because they are scared of their culture , scared of reprisals too or they approve of the inciteful and hateful acts . They are absolutely deplorable ! How many did you ask? How many did you see interviewed?
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Post by venceremos on Nov 15, 2010 15:21:15 GMT 1
I'd like to believe they'd think that such freedom, however extreme its expression, is exactly what they were fighting for. Churchill said something similar when the electorate resoundingly voted out him and his government straight after the war. It seems to have been a minor protest, clearly intended to cause upset. But so what? Is our democracy so weak that we can't just ignore it? There is no real freedom of speech unless people have the right to say and do things that others might prefer not to hear or see. As long as no-one gets hurt or intimidated and no laws are broken, a tolerant society must be prepared to tolerate such things. Isn't that part of what we're supposed to be fighting for anyway? I highly doubt it, but in any case protests like this do break laws - Section 5 public order as El Presidente posted on page 1 and people were arrested in the course of this protest. Yes its a minor protest and so the majority of people shrug their shoulders and let them get on with it, so more protests are planned against the British armed forces, support for organisations like the EDL grows in response and all the while the divide between more extreme muslims and society also grows, hard to see a happy ending in this scenario. Also find it pretty laughable that muslims conduct protests like these, and previous ones were they have celebrated Sep 11th, dressed as suicide bombers, said that more london bombings will happen, urge fellow muslims to send money for terrorism, etc. However a cartoon of the Prophet appears in a newspaper and all hell breaks loose, hardly much encouragement of 'freedom of expression' being reciprocated is there? You fall into the trap of confusing fanatical Islamists with "muslims". That's like someone in, say, Iran asserting that "Christians" published offensive cartoons of Mohamed. How can you generalise about an entire community from the actions of a tiny minority? It makes no sense at all. I also don't get the "if we did something like that over there" argument. We're talking about the UK's democracy and freedom of expression. Would you prefer that we applied the same standards of free speech as, say again, Iran? I hope not. That's the entire point - we have a history and culture tolerance and free expression that we should be proud of. But it comes at the price of having to accept that some people will use it to say and do things we oppose. The more the state dictates what can and can't be said or done, the less freedom we will have. Is that what you want?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 15, 2010 16:08:45 GMT 1
I also don't get the "if we did something like that over there" argument. We're talking about the UK's democracy and freedom of expression. Would you prefer that we applied the same standards of free speech as, say again, Iran? I hope not. That's the entire point - we have a history and culture tolerance and free expression that we should be proud of. But it comes at the price of having to accept that some people will use it to say and do things we oppose. The more the state dictates what can and can't be said or done, the less freedom we will have. Is that what you want? That is such a cricular argument that is giving extremism such a field day. I don't believe hate preachers should be allowed to encourage acts of terrorism against our own country: yet for years they were allowed. I don't think your life should be in danger for drawing a cartoon, but it would be, from British citizens. So too if you chose to marry to wrong person. I don't want the state to dictate what we do or don't say. That said, if there is some protection, tacit or not, in law, then it should be fair and open across all faith groups and none. If the use of the law is linked to the level of offence taken then those who make the most noise get the most protection. That is why the EDL have started making more noise. They are a monster created by inconsistencies in what "freedom of speech" actually allows you to do in the UK. And I do think there is a clear responsibility for community leaders in all areas to stand up against extremism in any form.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 17:19:22 GMT 1
So how is this story about Islam TBH? Was the birmingham pub bombing about catholicism? To the extent that it would be the responsibility of the Catholic Church to denounce the act, yes. Analogies with Ireland fail on the basis of its proximity and the Muslim view of land and nationhood. The IRA never planted bombs because we were at war with Italy in the 1940s. Does it? Im sure i said that the law for religeous hatred was the same irrelavant of what that faith is? As long as the government response is swayed by the level of offence taken by the injured party, then there will be a disparity. Take Jerry Springer the Opera. 63,000 people complained to the BBC. I can tell you 100% that had the Jesus portrayed in the story been Mohamed the BBC would not have shown it, the author would be under a Fatwa and there would have been civil disobedience. That feeds the agenda of the "Angry, white and proud" groups (BNP, EDL) who hijack the Christian heritage of this country to help their cause against Muslims. Anyhow, all we need is a firm, fair denouncement from the Muslim council of great Britain, maybe Baroness Warzi or whoever, and we will see how it pans out. When some nutcase American hate preacher was threatening to burn a Koran the Christian Church in the UK was unanimous and public in its clear and public dencouncement. We need the same within the Muslim community when extremists provoke others. Im sorry Dave, i just dont get this at all. Forget analogies and everything else, the birmingham pub bombing was not about catholicism, or even christianity, it was a barbaric act carried out but terrorists representing a tiny minority. Their actions are in no way related to the teachings of Jesus or God. The poppy burning was carried out by a tiny group of people with some bizzare axe to grind and where trying (and succeeding) to draw attention to themselves, like silly little children. Their actions in no way represented the teachings of Mohammed or Allah. Their actions have been condemned by the Muslim Council of Great Britain (as mentioned up the page) who represent and speak for the mainstream majority of Muslims. What more did you want? perhaps follow the example set by catholic hierarcy and try and hide away from their problems or cover it up as they have done with terrorist priests and paedophile bishops. Of coarse, those with an axe to grind against Muslims will sieze this with two hands and use it as another stick to beat them with. As with all silly little children, the dicks who burnt the poppy have no idea how counter productive their actions are to them and their religeon. It was blazenly stupid and incensitive, but it has jack all to do with Islam. As for jerry springer the opera, i think you are absolutely right. if that was Mohammed the s**t would really have hit the fan, but doesnt that just reinforce my point that "christians" in this country dont take their religeon seriously? for the vast majoirty, being a christian is merely a convenient pidgeon hole to put themselves in when questioned about such things. Muslims by and large have far more respect and have far greater faith and belief. Being a Muslim is not a convenient pidgeon hole for them, its a living and breathing faith. As i have said before, they take it seriously, a bit like we brits did a few hundred years ago when you could get burned alive for blasphomey, or your head chopped off for worshipping the pope over your king. Since then of coarse, we have become far more liberal in our approach to God and faith. I think that the fact that Muslims havent allowed their religeon to be treated like a joke is a good thing. if any Muslims break the law then they should be punished accordingly, same as any catholics and christians.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Nov 15, 2010 17:27:46 GMT 1
Matron 4 times now you have rambled on about Christian's and christian faith do yourself a favour and get back on topic as it is becoming very boring.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 17:31:00 GMT 1
Matron 4 times now you have rambled on about Christian's and christian faith do yourself a favour and get back on topic as it is becoming very boring. heavenly, this is a grown ups conversation, run along and watch a bit of cbb's
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 15, 2010 17:37:00 GMT 1
Matron, I certainly agree, the problem with situations like this being mismanaged is that it plays into the hands of extremists on all sides.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 17:51:26 GMT 1
Matron, I certainly agree, the problem with situations like this being mismanaged is that it plays into the hands of extremists on all sides. agreed.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Nov 15, 2010 18:00:41 GMT 1
Matron 4 times now you have rambled on about Christian's and christian faith do yourself a favour and get back on topic as it is becoming very boring. cbb's What??
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Post by SY3 on Nov 15, 2010 18:15:59 GMT 1
Muslims by and large have far more respect and have far greater faith and belief. Being a Muslim is not a convenient pidgeon hole for them, its a living and breathing faith. As i have said before, they take it seriously, a bit like we brits did a few hundred years ago when you could get burned alive for blasphomey, or your head chopped off for worshipping the pope over your king. Since then of coarse, we have become far more liberal in our approach to God and faith. Just wondering Matron what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and the Islam faith. You talk about beheading people and extremism such as being burned alive, so i am intrigued as to what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and whether you think elemnts of it are barbaric or not? On a side note, them baffoons who burned the poppies need deporting immediately in my view - it's just disgraceful and hurt me deeply. In the Uk you never hear of the Chinese blowing up trains or showing disrespect to our troops and heritage by burning troops, but it always seem to be muslims doesn't it - a bit of a trend developing don't you think.
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Post by venceremos on Nov 15, 2010 19:49:51 GMT 1
I also don't get the "if we did something like that over there" argument. We're talking about the UK's democracy and freedom of expression. Would you prefer that we applied the same standards of free speech as, say again, Iran? I hope not. That's the entire point - we have a history and culture tolerance and free expression that we should be proud of. But it comes at the price of having to accept that some people will use it to say and do things we oppose. The more the state dictates what can and can't be said or done, the less freedom we will have. Is that what you want? That is such a cricular argument that is giving extremism such a field day. I don't believe hate preachers should be allowed to encourage acts of terrorism against our own country: yet for years they were allowed. I don't think your life should be in danger for drawing a cartoon, but it would be, from British citizens. So too if you chose to marry to wrong person. I don't want the state to dictate what we do or don't say. That said, if there is some protection, tacit or not, in law, then it should be fair and open across all faith groups and none. If the use of the law is linked to the level of offence taken then those who make the most noise get the most protection. That is why the EDL have started making more noise. They are a monster created by inconsistencies in what "freedom of speech" actually allows you to do in the UK. And I do think there is a clear responsibility for community leaders in all areas to stand up against extremism in any form. How is it a circular argument? Who was threatened by the poppy burning antics of a tiny minority? That's just not the same at all as an EDL march through an area with a substantial ethnic minority population. The first is an act of provocation by a tiny number of people, easily ignored. The second is an act of provocation by a significant number of people, clearly designed to initimidate. If the EDL could be trusted to stage a protest march somewhere neutral (like Hyde Park), away from the people they clearly wish to provoke and intimidate, then let them have their say, no problem. But they're never content to just have their say are they? There's always an intimidatory aspect to what they do. So it's not just a question of public order, it's violence waiting to happen. And they're not so dumb that they wouldn't play that "it's one law for the Muslims card" - suits their purposes to do so. A lot of people oppose the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, so it's legitimate for anyone to protest against that. A few people burning poppies or flags grabs attention but shouldn't offend a mature and strong democracy, such as we're supposed to be. A large group on an intimidating march past the homes and businesses of an ethnic minority community is different in kind, and that's got nothing to do with special treatment for anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 20:00:31 GMT 1
Vencermos, you say that a EDL march is threatening whereas the burning of the poppy is something that can be easily ignored.
Basically its that attitude which is causing people to join those EDL march's. When we see something that is sacred to many people in our country (of all religions) being burnt Id say we have a pretty good case of being angry about it. If you arent particuarly bothered about it then your perfectly entitled to feel that way but many people feel strongly about it.
You say why should we be offended by burning of flags or poppies but by the same token why should the world bend over backwards when some idiot pastor threatens to burn a koran ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 20:51:07 GMT 1
Just wondering Matron what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and the Islam faith. You talk about beheading people and extremism such as being burned alive, so i am intrigued as to what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and whether you think elemnts of it are barbaric or not? On a side note, them baffoons who burned the poppies need deporting immediately in my view - it's just disgraceful and hurt me deeply. In the Uk you never hear of the Chinese blowing up trains or showing disrespect to our troops and heritage by burning troops, but it always seem to be muslims doesn't it - a bit of a trend developing don't you think. I guess to us as westerners, living in a society where we have become accustomed to the punishment no fitting the crime, Sharia Law may seem barbaric. Is beheading in saudi arabia worse than the electric chair in america? Its a valid and difficult question to be fair. There have certainly been occasions when many of us on here have bemoaned the apparent lack of a fitting punishment to certain crimes. do i believe in the death penalty? no, do i believe in chopping a thieves hands off? no again. so to that, the answer is i dont know. as for deporting, im not sure about this, but are they foreign nationals? if so it would be a reasonable argument, if not, where do you propose to deport them to if they are british? as for the last bit, im unsure of the connection between this and the chinese, but im pretty certain that over the past 50 years, more british soldiers and civilians have been murdered and disrespected by white british catholics than they have by Muslims.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 16, 2010 0:32:20 GMT 1
Just wondering Matron what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and the Islam faith. You talk about beheading people and extremism such as being burned alive, so i am intrigued as to what your thoughts are on Sharia Law and whether you think elemnts of it are barbaric or not? On a side note, them baffoons who burned the poppies need deporting immediately in my view - it's just disgraceful and hurt me deeply. In the Uk you never hear of the Chinese blowing up trains or showing disrespect to our troops and heritage by burning troops, but it always seem to be muslims doesn't it - a bit of a trend developing don't you think. I guess to us as westerners, living in a society where we have become accustomed to the punishment no fitting the crime, Sharia Law may seem barbaric. Is beheading in saudi arabia worse than the electric chair in america? Its a valid and difficult question to be fair. There have certainly been occasions when many of us on here have bemoaned the apparent lack of a fitting punishment to certain crimes. do i believe in the death penalty? no, do i believe in chopping a thieves hands off? no again. so to that, the answer is i dont know. as for deporting, im not sure about this, but are they foreign nationals? if so it would be a reasonable argument, if not, where do you propose to deport them to if they are british? as for the last bit, im unsure of the connection between this and the chinese, but im pretty certain that over the past 50 years, more british soldiers and civilians have been murdered and disrespected by white british catholics than they have by Muslims. Ok, if you are comparing beheading someone which is enforced by Sharia Law to the electric chair then i am assuming you are admitting sharia law is barbaric in that sense. On your question on whether is beheading worse than the electric chair i would say methos wise no. However, convicted criminals in the US will get the electric chair for heneous crimes such as first degree murder; under sharia law you will get beheaded and stoned to death for far lesser crimes including adultery!!! This in my eyes is far more barbaric and never welcome in Britain or the western world in my eyes. My point about the Chinese is the fact they moved over here in large numbers similar to the muslims. Do we see the Chinese causing us problems, jeering our troops and burning poppies on British soil? - i certainly haven't seen it. Ok you bring up the last 50 years; can we bring up the last 10 years and make it more relevant to now. If you do this i'm sure you will find that muslims are always the ones causing the problems. Why don't you hear of Australia having these domestic problems? Because they nipped it in the bud early doors, and we should have followed suit. On your question of where to deport them - well quite frankly i don't care, if they disrespect our troops and heritage then we could drop them off to their country of origin or anywhere other than here. why on earth do we want peope here who have no respect for whatwe stand for, our way of life and our history?
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Nov 16, 2010 0:42:30 GMT 1
I guess to us as westerners, living in a society where we have become accustomed to the punishment no fitting the crime, Sharia Law may seem barbaric. Is beheading in saudi arabia worse than the electric chair in america? Its a valid and difficult question to be fair. There have certainly been occasions when many of us on here have bemoaned the apparent lack of a fitting punishment to certain crimes. do i believe in the death penalty? no, do i believe in chopping a thieves hands off? no again. so to that, the answer is i dont know. as for deporting, im not sure about this, but are they foreign nationals? if so it would be a reasonable argument, if not, where do you propose to deport them to if they are british? as for the last bit, im unsure of the connection between this and the chinese, but im pretty certain that over the past 50 years, more british soldiers and civilians have been murdered and disrespected by white british catholics than they have by Muslims. Ok, if you are comparing beheading someone which is enforced by Sharia Law to the electric chair then i am assuming you are admitting sharia law is barbaric in that sense. On your question on whether is beheading worse than the electric chair i would say methos wise no. However, convicted criminals in the US will get the electric chair for heneous crimes such as first degree murder; under sharia law you will get beheaded and stoned to death for far lesser crimes including adultery!!! This in my eyes is far more barbaric and never welcome in Britain or the western world in my eyes. My point about the Chinese is the fact they moved over here in large numbers similar to the muslims. Do we see the Chinese causing us problems, jeering our troops and burning poppies on British soil? - i certainly haven't seen it. Ok you bring up the last 50 years; can we bring up the last 10 years and make it more relevant to now. If you do this i'm sure you will find that muslims are always the ones causing the problems. Why don't you hear of Australia having these domestic problems? Because they nipped it in the bud early doors, and we should have followed suit. On your question of where to deport them - well quite frankly i don't care, if they disrespect our troops and heritage then we could drop them off to their country of origin or anywhere other than here. why on earth do we want peope here who have no respect for whatwe stand for, our way of life and our history? Great post!!
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Nov 16, 2010 1:54:35 GMT 1
Who was threatened by the poppy burning antics of a tiny minority? That's just not the same at all as an EDL march through an area with a substantial ethnic minority population. The first is an act of provocation by a tiny number of people, easily ignored. The second is an act of provocation by a significant number of people, clearly designed to initimidate. From the Telegraph: Islamic protesters, dressed in dark clothes and with many masking their faces, carried banners and chanted slogans such as "British soldiers: terrorists". The group confronted police officers and briefly fought with them, leaving one officer with a head injury requiring hospital treatment, and three arrests were made. Asad Ullah, 23, a spokesman for the group said.... "We will do this again. Until the British people condemn the British Government for these illegal wars, we will not stop protesting." Sounds like the police were threatened by their antics! Also, rather than just having a stationery protest in Hyde park as you seem to suggest, they actually moved quite a distance and used the tube. Also, to say that these protests are 'easily ignored' simply isnt true, vast numbers of people are offended by them, sadly some so much that they feel sympathy or even join far-right groups. From what I can google, it seems the EDL were formed in response to the large-scale muslim protests last year in Luton. Interesting that their objective wasnt to protest against the war per se, but to protest until the British people condemn the govt for the wars - I'd stick my neck out and say the majority of British people don't support the war?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 2:03:17 GMT 1
Would you be complaining if these muslims were hot young belly dancers?
The poppy as some others have said has become very policitised in recent years as the emphasis has moved away from the two great wars to include recent battles, some of which are more contentious and political than others.
If you are going to politicise a symbolic event then you have to accept that it may "provoke" a reaction...
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indyinamerica
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Post by indyinamerica on Nov 16, 2010 2:18:23 GMT 1
Whether it's a Muslim burning a poppy or a drunken A-Hole student urinating on a memorial the act is deeply disrespectful and should be punished. Very severely if you ask me.
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Post by Victoria on Nov 16, 2010 3:36:58 GMT 1
Why don't you hear of Australia having these domestic problems? Because they nipped it in the bud early doors, and we should have followed suit. What did Australia do? Are you talking about white only immigration? In that case have a chat with my Greek and Italian friends and see what they put up with. There are still problems here, particularly in the Lebanese community. The UK is far more tolerant than here, racism is part and parcel of daily life and often quite public and casual from people of all ages and backgrounds. There have been warnings issued by the Indian government advising students to be careful due to the large amount of racially motivated attacks on Indians in Melbourne. The treatment of aboriginals is very very poor. I haven't met a person who has painted them in a positive light. Even the nicest most unassuming person will spout off some unbelievable racist comments. Vietnamese aren't looked on favorably either, mainly due to the Victorian Government having to introduce fishing licenses because the Vietnamese didn't give a toss about the etiquette. I guess I'm saying every country has it's problems. Angela Merkel summed it up quite nicely. Multiculturalism has failed. Whatever the reasons are (and I'm sure there are many), it isn't working.
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Post by Amsterdammer on Nov 16, 2010 9:25:27 GMT 1
My point about the Chinese is the fact they moved over here in large numbers similar to the muslims. Do we see the Chinese causing us problems, jeering our troops and burning poppies on British soil? - i certainly haven't seen it. Perhaps if we'd invaded and occupied Taiwan or Malaysia, we might have seen a different side to our Chinese community, so that's hardly a good analogy. why on earth do we want peope here who have no respect for what we stand for, our way of life and our history? Could you explain what it is you think "we stand for, our way of life and our history"? I thought it was an Island nation made up of an ever changing mix of 'races', that once had a huge empire that influences the lives of billions of people even today and as a result attracts many of its former subjects to work and live here.
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