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Post by Ned on Aug 9, 2010 11:53:08 GMT 1
Bad history of supporter violence. Arrogance of supporters certanly since Sam Hammam moved in and built the whole us against them mentality, one club in wales etc.etc.etc. Cardiff, Leeds and Millwall fans. Lovely bunch Exactly. Bad history. That's all it is, I know there have been a couple of things these last few years but it's like I say, some of the tabloids blow things out of proportion. As for the "us against them" mentality, one question. Do you dislike Cardiff City more than Swansea City? The answer from most supporters would be yes.
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Post by neilsalop on Aug 9, 2010 12:19:58 GMT 1
[ Do you dislike Cardiff City more than Swansea City? The answer from most supporters would be yes. I have been for a pint before the game in Swansea and although the banter was a bit one sided I didn't feel threatened. Walked through Cardiff in Town colours and ended up zipping up my jacket, because I felt extremely threatened and there's no way I was going for a drink before or after the game. FWIW I don't think Cardiff or Swansea should be entered into the FA Cup and to be honest if I was a supporter of either of teams I would look forward to winning the Welsh Cup every year or so and getting the club into Europe, but the Welsh Cup isn't the equivelent of our FA cup, it is more like the League cup and as neither is in the LOW them entering it is a non-starter. I don't have a problem with border towns playing in leagues over the border: Chester (the ground itself is mainly in Wales), Berwick Rangers, TNS or even Gretna back in the day, as these clubs can only thrive and survive by playing teams nearer to themselves in location, size, support and the like. Cardiff and Swansea are hardly JUST over the border so don't really fit into that scenario. If they and their fans truly cared about Welsh football, they would join the LOW and take the league forward, but all they are concerned about is themselves.
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Post by siabod on Aug 9, 2010 12:28:28 GMT 1
I I know some very nice Welsh types, but I have met some horrid ones and usually they are football "fans" and are from Cardiff, Swansea and Rexham. Yes I'm very greatful that all our fans are such pleasant and angelic people and you only have to read what the Milwall forum had to say about their match with Bristol to realise there are some pretty unsavoury characters on the Engish side of the border.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 12:39:05 GMT 1
Some of the tabloids do indeed blow things out of proportion, however an awful lot goes on that doesn't get reported.
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Post by Minor on Aug 9, 2010 12:48:07 GMT 1
I was a Cardiff 'fan' fore one afternoon 1983/1984 Tue 27 Dec Derby County 2 - 3 Cardiff City Second Division Stopped off on the way to gig in Nottingham that night. Cardiff hadn't won away for ages so the fans were going ballistic. Derby Police were really nice An experience not forgotten
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Post by blum on Aug 9, 2010 12:59:59 GMT 1
I I know some very nice Welsh types, but I have met some horrid ones and usually they are football "fans" and are from Cardiff, Swansea and Rexham. Yes I'm very greatful that all our fans are such pleasant and angelic people and you only have to read what the Milwall forum had to say about their match with Bristol to realise there are some pretty unsavoury characters on the Engish side of the border. I agree totally, there are some awful sets of "supporters" from many english clubs. But this thread was about the Welsh clubs in the premier etc. As I said I have met some nice Welsh folk and through experience some not so nice ones.. I was even mugged by Cardiff fans in the 80's so i'm a bit scarred (not scared) by that incident..
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Post by elderstatesman on Aug 9, 2010 15:11:04 GMT 1
My gripe is that if they play in the English league their players disciplinary matters should be dealt with by the English F.A. and not the Welsh F.A. When Cardiff played in the cup final against Portsmouth,Darren Purse payed despite being sent off in a game leading up to the cup final,courtesy of the Welsh F.A postponing a hearing until after the final.Another example of their contempt of the English league.The Welsh have their own premier league now if the teams playing in the English league wish to stay in England they should either join the English F.A.or go and play in their own premier league
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Post by Old Bucks Head on Aug 9, 2010 15:31:53 GMT 1
Cardiff and Swansea are hardly JUST over the border so don't really fit into that scenario. If they and their fans truly cared about Welsh football, they would join the LOW and take the league forward, but all they are concerned about is themselves. Transplanting two clubs from the second tier of English football into a league that is the equivalent of two or three steps below the Conference would be ruinous for them. It's better for Welsh football to have two (and, in time, perhaps three) clubs playing at a reasonable level in the English leagues. The point about the anomoly between disciplinary matters is valid and these clubs should be made to affiliate to the FA. The comparisons to Rangers and Celtic are not really valid because there are other clubs of a reasonable size in Scotland (Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, etc)
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Post by Ned on Aug 9, 2010 15:50:41 GMT 1
If Cardiff and Swansea were put back in the Welsh Pyramid, it would make the league ridiculous. It would be questioned by many fans, the FA just won't kick the Welsh sides out. In the same way some Welsh people don't like the English, Welsh people are hated by some people on the other side.
I, personally, would love to see Rangers and Celtic put into the English pyramid. Perhaps at Championship level initally? The problem would be long journeys, but I really think it'll benefit both the English and Scottish leagues.
My view is that, with all their financial difficulties, Cardiff have their best chance to get promoted this season. That day at Wembley in May was a real opportunity. If they don't go up this season, I think it'll be back to the lower leagues in a few years.
As for Swansea, as much as I dislike them, I think they've got a real chance to be in the Premier League soon. A good owner, a fantastic stadium. I would expect them to be in the top league within the next five years, whether they can stay there is a complete different arguement.
People on here know that I also support Cardiff City, so I may be a bit bias, but I genuinely think the football league benefits by having Cardiff City and Swansea City in it. As well as it did when Wrexham were and, hopefully soon, Newport County will be.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 17:28:01 GMT 1
I dont care what you say, IMO the hatred of England, the English and the thugish football fan is a live and Kicking in the Valleys. How do I know this? I have been working in South Wales for nearly 4 months and have seen first hand what they think of us (sorry, the English). We've seen it time and again when Swansea and Cardiff visit STFC what they are capable of, and just because they both have shiney new grounds doesnt mean that they have all of a sudden hung up their Doc Martins. I agree with Heavenlyshrew, the ENGLISH leagues should stay ENGLISH. You wouldnt get a Spanish side playing in the French league, not even an Austrian side playing in Germany, so why have the Welsh in ours? I know some very nice Welsh types, but I have met some horrid ones and usually they are football "fans" and are from Cardiff, Swansea and Rexham. Spain and France or Germany and Austria are not the same country, England, Wales and Scotland are the same country which is Great Britain so get over it, we cheat by entering 3 teams into world cups and euros etc fortunately we are not allowed to do this at the olympics. You don't see California and Texas moaning they compette as USA and thats why they are succesfull.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 17:38:17 GMT 1
On the other hand if Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Merthyr, Wrexham and Colwyn Bay dropped into the welsh leagues it could be as good as the SPL. No doubt Cardiff and Swansea would do best, but i think clubs such as Newport and Wrexham would grow considerably, I also imagine teams such as TNS, Rhyl, Bangor, Neath and Haverford West gates would increase 10 fold over night. The league i'd imagine would gorw considerably. I imagine Cardiff and Swnasea would still get 5 figure gates, Newport and Wrexham would head towards 5 figures. Rhyl would probably 3-4,000, Aberystwyth would probably see an increase 3-4,000 a game so it would proabably do some good. Who knows unless it happens. Maybe it should happen I imagine Neath Vs Swansea or Merthyr vs Cardiff in a proper league game would get some sort of interest.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Aug 9, 2010 17:38:25 GMT 1
FFS dan England are not and never will be the same country as Wales and Scotland you know that.Stupid post tbh
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Post by Namur on Aug 9, 2010 17:39:55 GMT 1
Well the question is would the league of wales welcome a team from England? I doubt it very much just say a lower league side like Boston united tryed to join would welsh teams like rhyl or TNS risk losing money made from the champions league money the answer would be no. Surely (being pedantic), TNS are now an English team?
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 18:09:55 GMT 1
FFS dan England are not and never will be the same country as Wales and Scotland you know that.Stupid post tbh d Its not a stupid post its a fact! Its Great Britain, same Prime Minister, same Queen, same currency same island, same flag. Its been the same country since 1st May 1707. Before that England and Wales were the same country since 927 when Kingdom of Wessex , Kingdom of Mercia , Kingdom of East Anglia , Kingdom of Northumbria and the Principality of Wales merged to become England. Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542 came in to fruitation but didn't mean nor doesn't mean Wales is seperate from England today. Wales is a principality of England, the same as Kent is a Principality of England apart from Wales has its own say with its own assembly. Kentish people don't complain though do they?
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 18:12:39 GMT 1
Well i forgot its been the same country since Ireland got its recognised FULL independence unlike Wales and Scotland in 1922.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 18:31:04 GMT 1
" England, Wales and Scotland are the same country which is Great Britain "
There is no such country as Great Britain (except in the eyes of certain sports teams). It is an island. Strictly speaking it is the United Kingdom which as the name suggests is not one country-Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Aug 9, 2010 18:40:03 GMT 1
I, personally, would love to see Rangers and Celtic put into the English pyramid. , but I really think it'll benefit both the English and Scottish leagues. How exactley will that happen ?
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Post by scooter on Aug 9, 2010 19:49:40 GMT 1
the history is that welsh teams came into the english system many years ago because there wasn't a welsh league.
Scotland has always had it's own league, and it's teams will stay there for the foreseeable future
As the sttiing up of the Welsh premier proved, clubs very resistant to change and we will not be chucking welsh clubs out at the top of the pyramid, but there appears to be no excuse for the pettiness that prevented Bishops castle progressing at their level
Cardiff fans worked very hard to get a well deserved "reputation" - that will also stick with them for the foreseeable future
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Post by Ned on Aug 9, 2010 20:07:21 GMT 1
I, personally, would love to see Rangers and Celtic put into the English pyramid. , but I really think it'll benefit both the English and Scottish leagues. How exactley will that happen ? I would propose this: - Take out one team from the relegation to League One and one team from promotion to The Championship for one season only. - That would mean in League One, one team goes up automatically and one via the play offs (like the BSP). - Just two teams get relegated from The Championship.
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Post by monkee on Aug 9, 2010 20:45:27 GMT 1
How exactley will that happen ? I would propose this: - Take out one team from the relegation to League One and one team from promotion to The Championship for one season only. - That would mean in League One, one team goes up automatically and one via the play offs (like the BSP). - Just two teams get relegated from The Championship. why should my team have a scottish club from another national league, transplanted above? they havent earned it, it would kill their own league and its a stupid idea ned
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 20:48:27 GMT 1
" England, Wales and Scotland are the same country which is Great Britain " There is no such country as Great Britain (except in the eyes of certain sports teams). It is an island. Strictly speaking it is the United Kingdom which as the name suggests is not one country-Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. I think you will find that Great Britain is a kingdom by its own right since 1707. In 1801 its was changed to the United kingdom on Great Britain and Ireland, in 1922 this was changed to The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is current present day. The United Kingdom means a union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, it in no way states the United Kingdom as a union between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland only the kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Anybody who is in the armied forces or familiar with history should recognise this to be true.
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Post by Old Bucks Head on Aug 9, 2010 21:18:10 GMT 1
I would propose this: - Take out one team from the relegation to League One and one team from promotion to The Championship for one season only. - That would mean in League One, one team goes up automatically and one via the play offs (like the BSP). - Just two teams get relegated from The Championship. This makes no sense. It amounts to relegating two teams and replacing them with four (two via promotion, plus the two additional teams).
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 21:32:51 GMT 1
Anyway leave the league system as it is with the teams in it end of story.
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Post by sgd on Aug 9, 2010 22:01:54 GMT 1
That is not a English team that would take the chamions league from TNS or rhyl. As Rhyl are not even in the Welsh Premier League I doubt that it would bother them this season.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 9, 2010 22:17:18 GMT 1
I'd love a British Super league and a British national team, can't wait to see it in the Olympics if there isn't a Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish player in the team. The truth is it will be Great Britain and thats great!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 22:53:58 GMT 1
" England, Wales and Scotland are the same country which is Great Britain " There is no such country as Great Britain (except in the eyes of certain sports teams). It is an island. Strictly speaking it is the United Kingdom which as the name suggests is not one country-Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. I think you will find that Great Britain is a kingdom by its own right since 1707. In 1801 its was changed to the United kingdom on Great Britain and Ireland, in 1922 this was changed to The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is current present day. The United Kingdom means a union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, it in no way states the United Kingdom as a union between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland only the kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Anybody who is in the armied forces or familiar with history should recognise this to be true. I repeat Great Britain is not a country. Great Britain is the island which is comprised of England, Scotland and Wales. Ireland is another island. They are the 2 largest islands of the British Isles. These are geographical features not names of countries. From the office of UK National Statistics:- "The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four COUNTRIES: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales."
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Post by SteveHayesFanClub on Aug 9, 2010 22:54:43 GMT 1
My gripe is that if they play in the English league their players disciplinary matters should be dealt with by the English F.A. and not the Welsh F.A. When Cardiff played in the cup final against Portsmouth,Darren Purse payed despite being sent off in a game leading up to the cup final,courtesy of the Welsh F.A postponing a hearing until after the final.Another example of their contempt of the English league.The Welsh have their own premier league now if the teams playing in the English league wish to stay in England they should either join the English F.A.or go and play in their own premier league Great point. Also goes for a Lee Trundle sending off at Rochdale that got turned over
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Post by Minor on Aug 10, 2010 6:59:30 GMT 1
My gripe is that if they play in the English league their players disciplinary matters should be dealt with by the English F.A. and not the Welsh F.A. When Cardiff played in the cup final against Portsmouth,Darren Purse payed despite being sent off in a game leading up to the cup final,courtesy of the Welsh F.A postponing a hearing until after the final.Another example of their contempt of the English league.The Welsh have their own premier league now if the teams playing in the English league wish to stay in England they should either join the English F.A.or go and play in their own premier league Great point. Also goes for a Lee Trundle sending off at Rochdale that got turned over The very Lee Trundle now plying his trade for Neath FC in the League of Wales.
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Post by blum on Aug 10, 2010 9:15:46 GMT 1
I dont care what you say, IMO the hatred of England, the English and the thugish football fan is a live and Kicking in the Valleys. How do I know this? I have been working in South Wales for nearly 4 months and have seen first hand what they think of us (sorry, the English). We've seen it time and again when Swansea and Cardiff visit STFC what they are capable of, and just because they both have shiney new grounds doesnt mean that they have all of a sudden hung up their Doc Martins. I agree with Heavenlyshrew, the ENGLISH leagues should stay ENGLISH. You wouldnt get a Spanish side playing in the French league, not even an Austrian side playing in Germany, so why have the Welsh in ours? I know some very nice Welsh types, but I have met some horrid ones and usually they are football "fans" and are from Cardiff, Swansea and Rexham. Spain and France or Germany and Austria are not the same country, England, Wales and Scotland are the same country which is Great Britain so get over it, we cheat by entering 3 teams into world cups and euros etc fortunately we are not allowed to do this at the olympics. You don't see California and Texas moaning they compette as USA and thats why they are succesfull. Sorry mate, that is complete tosh!! England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland border each other like Germany, Austria, Switzerland etc. BUT they are seperate countries. Wales & Scotland are SEPERATE countries which form part of the UNITED KINGDON of GREAT BRITAIN.. Ask any Welsh or Scottish person whether they are par of England and they'd knock your teeth out. They are part self governing, and want full independence from the ENGLISH parliament. So IMO I have f**k all to get over!!
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 10, 2010 11:43:20 GMT 1
Stop being so stubborn and thick Great Britain is a Kingdom and is a country still! Until scotland, Wales and England gain and officially declare independance for themselves then Great Britain it will be and thats a fact. What about Cornwall, Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria, East Anglia where does it end, the truth is Wales and Scotland have no more right than these places to be independant from the United Kingdom. In that case I'm Mercian!
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