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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 16:07:25 GMT 1
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2005 16:36:31 GMT 1
Major debates in the General Election? Can't see anything changing the inevitable - another Labour landslide victory.
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 16:39:51 GMT 1
Major debates in the General Election? Can't see anything changing the inevitable - another Labour landslide victory. A landslide methinks not, Labour will win, I really hope so, speaking as a non Labour voter, I hope they do because it will become even more apparent the longer they stay in power the bigger old Gordys black hole in his budget will be, prudent my @rse
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 16:42:39 GMT 1
With immgration set to become a leading issue at this years General Election, i thought a few searching questions should be put to the B&A masses to judge what effect immigration policy of the last 30 years or so has had on middle england. Q1. Is it correct that the UK activley encourages economic migration from developing and third world countries or should those migrants be encouraged to stay in there own countries to benefit its economy and populace. Q2. Do you agree or disagree that London, Capital City of England should be allowed to become home to a minority english ethnicity population as soon as 2010 (populace currently stands at 40% foreign ethnicity) Q3. Do you believe that the majority of migrants actively integrate into British society and community or do you believe that migrants are upsetting the balance of social cohesian and community in towns and cities across the UK by living as seperate communities and sometimes with seperate schools. Q4. Do you believe that Britain should continue its free for all immigration policy, or should the shutters come down to safeguard "the British way of life". Q5. Do you believe "When in Rome do as the Romans do" to be racist. Q6. Do you believe the Courts should deport any migrant that commits a crime involving fraud, violence or offence of a sexual nature. Q7. Do you think migrants should be deported if they claim benefits for more than 6 months. Q8, Do you think Free NHS healthcare should only be provide to people who have obtained British Nationality or were born in the UK unless agreed to on an individual basis by the home office. and Finally... Q9. If you were prime minister what immigration policy would you instigate. (Should keep you busy) Q1 - if it benefits their own country they should stay put Q2 - DISAGREE Q3 - No the majority are not integrating Q4 - Shutters down like Australia Q5 - NO Q6 - YES Q7 - YES if they are deemed to be here illegally Q8 - YES, only provided on that basis Q9 - As per answer to Q4
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Post by rob on Feb 2, 2005 16:42:42 GMT 1
one thing we cant just ban citizens from fellow EU member countries from entering the country. As for the tories
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Post by dachs on Feb 2, 2005 16:47:27 GMT 1
Q8, Do you think Free NHS healthcare should only be provide to people who have obtained British Nationality or were born in the UK unless agreed to on an individual basis by the home office. 100% no. Can't believe anyone would seek to deny people equal access to healthcare based on their nationality
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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 16:48:25 GMT 1
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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 16:52:56 GMT 1
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 17:03:10 GMT 1
A landslide methinks not, Labour will win, I really hope so, speaking as a non Labour voter, I hope they do because it will become even more apparent the longer they stay in power the bigger old Gordys black hole in his budget will be, prudent my @rse Labour will win and thankfully so, a country run by that arse by the name of Howard will be a worse one
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matt
Midland League Division One
Posts: 310
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2005 17:06:31 GMT 1
i think the reality is that in the event of labour not getting another landslide victory (by no means assured) it will be the Lib Dems, and NOT the Tories who push them close. A hung parliament is not even out of the question. This is the opinion of the head of my faculty (who is a Tory). and i believe he could be right. i'm studying politics by the way...
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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 17:09:00 GMT 1
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Post by pawlo on Feb 2, 2005 17:19:57 GMT 1
1) Work with a lot of junior doctors from the middle east and asia, most come here to improve there medical education then go home. Do a job for us then go home and do a job there. They should be entitled to the same life choices that we have. 2) Official figures show non british national population at 4 %. Couldnt care less. 3) Believe that most immigrants intergrate into British society. Dont think that they cause anyomore problems than your average 20 year old mother with 6 kids who has never done a days work in her life. Many religeons have their own schools, catholics, jews to name two. 4) For british way of life, read " American way of life ". Our kids all talk more like americans and aussies than asians. What is the british way of life. Has somebody robbed me of strolling down to the village pub for lunch followed by a game of cricket with my chums? 5) Yes, as much as the british believed it when we occupied india. 6) If he/she has been given citizenship then no, should be treated like any other british citizen. If not a british citizen then yes, but only if the same rule applied to the fench germans americans ect 7) Benefits should be stopped for everyone if they havent found some degree of work within 6 months. 8) No. 9) Wouldnt change that much actually. Would maybe put border controls around britain to stop all the british citizens going abroad from this country hoping to find a better life else where. How disgusting. Thanks for asking by the way!
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Post by pawlo on Feb 2, 2005 17:24:47 GMT 1
If you read the post i just put up then oooppppps, i misread what kicken said
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Post by benlennagain on Feb 2, 2005 17:25:20 GMT 1
Kickin pretty i really think you havent thought this through...so you want to close borders, prevent all immigration to save our NHS.....I'll think you find without these immigrants our NHS would be a lot worse we would lose a lot of highly skilled nurses and doctors which we are desperatley short of as it is. The biggest drain on the NHS is weekend thuggery and old people (dont mean to offend) but to say immigrants are ruining the NHS is somewhat disgusting!
Our history of imperialism is the reason people want to live here as we have ruined there country's for our own benefit....you reap what you sow.
Bugger i didnt see sisterpab's post she put it much better than i ever could!
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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 17:28:30 GMT 1
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Feb 2, 2005 17:29:39 GMT 1
Speaking as in immigrant, a non-citizen, a foriegner in a host country ;D Q1. Both currently happen - the mix is important. Q2. If it happens, it happens. Q3. given the two options, I'd say the first, but there are elements of the second. Q4. Britain doesn't have a free for all immigration policy. There are very strict visa regulations and requirements. Q5. ? Q6. The legal system probably should have the right to withdraw the work/abode status on non-citizens in extreme circumstances. Q7. No Q8. No Non-citizens and their dependents who legally work and pay taxes in th UK are as much entilted to the NHS as citizens. and Finally... Q9. A good one
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Post by pawlo on Feb 2, 2005 17:39:25 GMT 1
I think you have your wires crossed somewhere bennlennagain I have just posed some searching questions, i havn't stated if a agree or disagree with any, as for the NHS , if we operate a n open door policy to the entire world , how are we as a country going to pay for it? PS (Sistewr Pabs A BLOKE ! Yes thanks for clearing up that bit of confusion kicken To answer your point, we have always had an open door policy, and the fact that the NHS is in such a mess right now ( although praise Tony and Gordon for trying to put it right ), is down to 18years of tory neglect, the advant of new but extremely expensive technoligy and treatments, the ever increasing life expectancy, the ever growing elderly population and rediculous things like fertility treatment for 60 year olds.
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Post by benlennagain on Feb 2, 2005 17:49:10 GMT 1
I told he/she put it better!
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Post by benlennagain on Feb 2, 2005 17:59:31 GMT 1
Q5- It depends if the romans are kicking the crap out of an immigrant.
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 18:09:49 GMT 1
Yes thanks for clearing up that bit of confusion kicken To answer your point, we have always had an open door policy, and the fact that the NHS is in such a mess right now ( although praise Tony and Gordon for trying to put it right ), is down to 18years of tory neglect, the advant of new but extremely expensive technoligy and treatments, the ever increasing life expectancy, the ever growing elderly population and rediculous things like fertility treatment for 60 year olds. 'Tory neglect', get over it for chri$ts sake, have you not noticed who has been in power since May 1997 Tony 'things can only get better', 'we will be whiter than white' Blair , I suppose next you'll be saying the 'tories' ruined the manufacturing industry, lets face it what have Labour done for it over the last 7 years & 3 months, diddly squat, lets employ another 600000 in the public sector 'producing' what, non- jobs for the 'graduates', (he wouldn't want to pi$$ them off would he ?) Oh yes and of course you'll be telling us next that the 'Tories' took us to war against Iraq, I just hope 'they' get in again, and lets see how Prudent Gordy fills his black hole in the budget try and blame that on the 'Tories'
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matt
Midland League Division One
Posts: 310
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2005 18:14:03 GMT 1
Oh yes and of course you'll be telling us next that the 'Tories' took us to war against Iraq, ' err, they did didn't they? if only they'd managed to finish the job, things might be different now eh....
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Post by Worthingshrew on Feb 2, 2005 18:27:37 GMT 1
I have no problem with immigrants and asylum seekers, but I wouldn't want to live next door to a bigot.
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 18:28:00 GMT 1
err, they did didn't they? if only they'd managed to finish the job, things might be different now eh.... You mean Tonys 'hands that do dishes' ie white & clean wouldn't be covered in the $hit that they are now
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Post by profPATpendling on Feb 2, 2005 18:34:05 GMT 1
Very true H_M_A , good reason to come of the European Union as this just shows how much control we have lost to the EU. However, figures point to a fairly balanced immigration pattern between developed countries, but developing and third world migration is pretty much one way traffic. my you sound just like cynicalshrew are your feet still up watching the OilIraq war Kickin?
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Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 18:42:54 GMT 1
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 18:48:51 GMT 1
I sound nothing like Cynicleshrew - am i telling porkies then Prof (as if) ? And yes i still take a great interest in the Iraq situation, especially the iraqiescelebrating free elections for the first time in 50 odd years!
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Post by pawlo on Feb 2, 2005 18:51:39 GMT 1
'Tory neglect', get over it for chri$ts sake, have you not noticed who has been in power since May 1997 Tony 'things can only get better', 'we will be whiter than white' Blair , I suppose next you'll be saying the 'tories' ruined the manufacturing industry, lets face it what have Labour done for it over the last 7 years & 3 months, diddly squat, lets employ another 600000 in the public sector 'producing' what, non- jobs for the 'graduates', (he wouldn't want to pi$$ them off would he ?) Oh yes and of course you'll be telling us next that the 'Tories' took us to war against Iraq, I just hope 'they' get in again, and lets see how Prudent Gordy fills his black hole in the budget try and blame that on the 'Tories' Minor mate, I have never fallen out ( dont think ;D ) with anyone on this board, and im not going to start now. But facts speak for themselves. An analogy i often use, is doing repairs to your house. If you do them bit by bit over the years, the house remains well maintaned, and after say, 18years, you dont suddenly find that your house is falling down all around you and its gonna cost you a fortune to put it right. If however, you spend all your money on booze every month and dont keep up the repairs, then after 18 years you are gonna have to shell out a great wad of cash and its going to take an awfull long time to get your house back in order. The problem in this case, is that instead of making that steady investment over their 18years of rule, the tories instead decided to use that money to give tax cuts to their friends in big business. And it was the fat cats who benefited, and they will be the ones to benefit if the tories get in again. Forgive the maths here, but say the tories cut taxes by 2 p in the pound, that means that someone on an average of say 25K will get a lot less than someone on say 250K. Anyway, i digress, the point is that the problems with the health service are going to take a long time to put right. I would say that, rather than spending £X billions on wars and domes, that money would have been spent better on the NHS, so Tony and Gord dont get away scot free here, but like a crawling weed, the root of the problem can be traced quite easily back to the tories mismanagement, you just need to open your eyes a bit.
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matt
Midland League Division One
Posts: 310
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2005 18:58:58 GMT 1
You mean Tonys 'hands that do dishes' ie white & clean wouldn't be covered in the $hit that they are now yeah spot on - hadn't thought about it quite like that before. its another example of a tory created mess (like the NHS) that Labour are still struggling to clear up 8 years after they left office. good point.
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Post by islay malt on Feb 2, 2005 19:12:39 GMT 1
I sound nothing like Cynicleshrew - am i telling porkies then Prof (as if) ? And yes i still take a great interest in the Iraq situation, especially the iraqiescelebrating free elections for the first time in 50 odd years! Still being more than a 'smidgin' selective, kickin me old mucka? Like your absolute certainty that Iraq had WMD (Which you don't seem to mention these days - surprise, surprise ), which we needed to remove with an invasion. You now cling to the 'party line' that these elections are the dawning of a new era for the Iraqui people and will herald peace and freedom throughout the region. Wake up, mate, and smell the coffee
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chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
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Post by chrisj on Feb 2, 2005 20:02:39 GMT 1
With immgration set to become a leading issue at this years General Election, i thought a few searching questions should be put to the B&A masses to judge what effect immigration policy of the last 30 years or so has had on middle england. Q1. Is it correct that the UK activley encourages economic migration from developing and third world countries or should those migrants be encouraged to stay in there own countries to benefit its economy and populace. Is it accurate? Didn't think we did with the exception of workers with specific skills. Q2. Do you agree or disagree that London, Capital City of England should be allowed to become home to a minority english ethnicity population as soon as 2010 (populace currently stands at 40% foreign ethnicity) No it doesn't. 40% non-white maybe, (not sure where that figure came from, but for the sake of argument...) but are they all 'foreign'? Is your definition of Englishness 'white' like a certain other poster on the board? What do you mean 'allowed'? If non-white British/EU citizens wish to move to London but the 'quota' is reached would you stop them buying homes there until a few more white folk had beeen born/moved in? Do you believe in controlling movement within our borders as well? Q3. Do you believe that the majority of migrants actively integrate into British society and community or do you believe that migrants are upsetting the balance of social cohesian and community in towns and cities across the UK by living as seperate communities and sometimes with seperate schools. Of course they integrate where they can. Q4. Do you believe that Britain should continue its free for all immigration policy, or should the shutters come down to safeguard "the British way of life". WTF? Q5. Do you believe "When in Rome do as the Romans do" to be racist. Not necessarily, but it certainly disciminates against those who aren't citizens of Rome. If you mean should migrants be encouraged to learn English, yes, but then most of the economically active ones do anyway. If you mean should people be forced to abandon their religion, culinary preferences, clothing, music, etc, etc, then certainly not. If the British ones are so superior they'll abandon them from choice soon enough anyway. If not, we'll have been enriched. Does anyone seriously think this country would be better had we never been exposed to reggae, ska, rock, ragga, rap, Asian food, pizza, pasta... Q6. Do you believe the Courts should deport any migrant that commits a crime involving fraud, violence or offence of a sexual nature. No, why should they? Q7. Do you think migrants should be deported if they claim benefits for more than 6 months. No, why should they be? Q8, Do you think Free NHS healthcare should only be provide to people who have obtained British Nationality or were born in the UK unless agreed to on an individual basis by the home office. What about those people with whom the UK has reciprocal healthcare arrangements? How does it benefit the nation to have sick and untreated individuals littering the place? (And to pre-empt the reply, many of whom do not bave anywhere else to go. and Finally... Q9. If you were prime minister what immigration policy would you instigate. (Should keep you busy) Kick out anyone who wilfully distorts and abuses statistics to further their flimsy arguments. I have a couple of questions of my own: Q1. Why do some people consistently fail to differentiate between non-white people and 'immigrants? Q2. Why do people who 'just want an honest debate' about immigration deliberately distort and inflate the numbers of incomers? Q3. Why do people who 'just want an honest debate' about immigration bang on about 'third world' and 'economic' migrants when the largest group of immigrants to the UK is comprised of EU citizens and the second largest from relatively wealthier countries like Australia, NZ and Canada, with whom we have reciprocal arrangements? Q4. Why do people who 'just want an honest debate' about immigration phrase their questions to imply problems that don't exist and downplay positive economic and social benefits of immigration? Look at Q8 for example. It implies that migrants are a net drain on the NHS. Where is the evidence for this? What do the figures actually prove? Q5. Why do people who 'just want an honest debate' about immigration talk about our 'open door policy'? It's actually quite hard to get into the UK, certainly harder than it ever has been. These aren't 'just searching questions', they're deliberately racially slanted, full of half-truths, distortions and urban myths. Q6.Would you turn away people who are fleeing genocide, rape, torture because your quotas have been filled? Do you feel no responsibility for people who've suffered at the hands of regimes backed by successive British governments?
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