|
Post by MarkRowley on Feb 2, 2005 23:11:11 GMT 1
With immgration set to become a leading issue at this years General Election, i thought a few searching questions should be put to the B&A masses to judge what effect immigration policy of the last 30 years or so has had on middle england. Q1. Is it correct that the UK activley encourages economic migration from developing and third world countries or should those migrants be encouraged to stay in there own countries to benefit its economy and populace. Q2. Do you agree or disagree that London, Capital City of England should be allowed to become home to a minority english ethnicity population as soon as 2010 (populace currently stands at 40% foreign ethnicity) Q3. Do you believe that the majority of migrants actively integrate into British society and community or do you believe that migrants are upsetting the balance of social cohesian and community in towns and cities across the UK by living as seperate communities and sometimes with seperate schools. Q4. Do you believe that Britain should continue its free for all immigration policy, or should the shutters come down to safeguard "the British way of life". Q5. Do you believe "When in Rome do as the Romans do" to be racist. Q6. Do you believe the Courts should deport any migrant that commits a crime involving fraud, violence or offence of a sexual nature. Q7. Do you think migrants should be deported if they claim benefits for more than 6 months. Q8, Do you think Free NHS healthcare should only be provide to people who have obtained British Nationality or were born in the UK unless agreed to on an individual basis by the home office. and Finally... Q9. If you were prime minister what immigration policy would you instigate. (Should keep you busy) Q1 - No problem with anyone coming to UK to gain work experience, training, new ideas etc which they can then take back to their own countries to enhance their own infrastructure and standard of life Q2 - Not fussed really, look around at New York, Paris, Madrid and other large cities in the main economic nations, all have large immigrant communities Q3 - I think the vast majority of new entrants into the UK look to integrate although at the same time wishing to retain key parts of their own culture, this is fine by me (as long as does not break any of our laws, and does not cause undue offernce - we have to be careful who we judge to be the public to be offerded here, as we know how sensitive Daily Mail readers can be, bless them As an earlier poster has said, there have been separate schools for Catholics & Jews for centuries, if a Muslim or any other community want to have their own school, it would be hypocritical to object to this. There are though certain parts of the community who either choose not to integrate and/or feel that they are unable to integrate for whatever reason - these are the people we need to focus on to see if anything can be done to improve this. Q4 - have no desire to say no entry or to set quotas. On the other hand, we have to accept the fact that we are a relatively small nation and in many areas space is very much at a premium. My thoughts are that we need to ensure we take our fair share of all people escaping genuine persecution and also people from all nations who want to work in the UK to better themselves, send money back to family, take skills back home to improve their own country etc - we should accept anyone with a work ethic, what we don't want is to take anyone who just intends to sponge off the state, we have more than enough of these wasters of our own to start with Q5 - Don't think so. Any new entrant to any country needs to respect the traditions/rules/culture of their new home but this does not mean they cannot continue to pursue their own culture/beliefs as long as this does not constiture a crime/cause undue offence Q6 - Not as a matter of course. If the offender in question can repent and offer something back to the community as a whole, they should be given the chance to do so, just as we do as standard for our "own" prisoners - if however the offender is merely a benefit scrounger and cannot/will not offer anything to the country, I would not lose any sleep if they were deported after going through due process in the Courts. Q7 - No, as long as they are actively seeking work and based on their skills/experience/attitude can be expected to obtain gainful employment Q8 - No way. What I would like to see an end of is British Nationals who bugger off abroad for the sun or moaning about how Britain is going down the toilet, but as soon as they are ill come back expecting to get NHS treatment as a right despite no longer contributing anything towards the NHS. Q9 - Think commentary above covers most of it. We need to be open to those who are fleeing genuine persecution and those who are seeking work to better themselves anc their families. I have no interest in taking in tax dodgers or benefit scroungers, there are already plenty enough of those here already from us "natives". Also need to ensure that our European chums are also doing the same, rather than just moving the problem on to us, where we are effectively the end of the line.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 2, 2005 23:21:12 GMT 1
It was Norman (The Chingford Polecat) Tebbit who advocated the 'cricket test'. Heseltine is Welsh and therefore not interested in cricket
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 2, 2005 23:23:25 GMT 1
I thought Normo Tebbs was the Chingford Skinhead
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2005 23:26:48 GMT 1
I've had a great day. Been served breakfast by a Russian waiter. Went to work in a German car. Went for a Chinese meal this evening and then worked out in a gym with the latest Italian technology. God bless the foreigners
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 2, 2005 23:29:17 GMT 1
I've had a great day. Been served breakfast by a Russian waiter. Went to work in a German car. Went for a Chinese meal this evening and then worked out in a gym with the latest Italian technology. God bless the foreigners Shock Horror, you lived to tell the tale
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 2, 2005 23:33:51 GMT 1
I thought Normo Tebbs was the Chingford Skinhead We are both right - Denis Healy called him the Chingford Skinhead and Michael Foot referred to him as a 'semi trained polecat'
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Feb 2, 2005 23:33:56 GMT 1
Just stumbled across this web site that may have some relevence to the debate www.migrationwatchuk.orgMigrationwatch UK is an independent think tank which has no links to any political party. It is chaired by Sir Andrew Green, a former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia . Professor David Coleman , Professor of Demography at Oxford University , is an Honorary Consultant. They have a distinguished Advisory Council from diverse ethnic and professional backgrounds
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 2, 2005 23:35:32 GMT 1
We are both right - Denis Healy called him the Chingford Skinhead and Michael Foot referred to him as a 'semi trained polecat' ;D
|
|
|
Post by rob on Feb 3, 2005 0:45:45 GMT 1
Dont forget students there Tel, We'll happily work anywhere during the holidays for £4.85 p/h, tho' nights are better as the wage goes up by 65 p/h The way I see it is that there are and will be people who comnplain about the foreigners taking all "our" jobs, yet when asked by the jobshop to go for an interview for some "low status" job will do all they can to get out of it. You cant have it both ways... AWould be interesting to hear Martin Bs' thoughts on this...
|
|
loiterer
Shropshire County League
Posts: 0
|
Post by loiterer on Feb 3, 2005 7:09:20 GMT 1
Migration watch... Please have a look at this link - independent dosen't mean objective: www.guardian.co.uk/analysis/story/0,3604,770320,00.html Kickin' - why are you worried about migrants? Most white people in London are pleased about the fact that their city is multi-cultural because they enjoy the benefits of it every day. One very small example -before Asian immigration in the 1950s you couldn't get a loaf of bread after five PM- Asians came here as shop keepers, worked their b*****s off and the situation changed. Many people are in more 'white' areas are scared of immigrants because they never interact with them - all the see is Mail headlines etc. I remember working in factory in Hereford, and every day of my co-workers rants about 'them P**** coming to take my job and take over my town' - but why? The non-white population in Hereford must be under 1 percent. If everyone stopped seing people who are different to them as a threat then the world would be a better place
|
|
chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
|
Post by chrisj on Feb 3, 2005 8:23:00 GMT 1
Just stumbled across this web site that may have some relevence to the debate www.migrationwatchuk.orgMigrationwatch UK is an independent think tank which has no links to any political party. It is chaired by Sir Andrew Green, a former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia . Professor David Coleman , Professor of Demography at Oxford University , is an Honorary Consultant. They have a distinguished Advisory Council from diverse ethnic and professional backgrounds You've given the game away now, claiming they're independent. Migrationwatch is a well known very anti-immigration organisation. Getting 'facts' from them would be a bit like asking Bin Laden for his impressions of travel in the US. Why don't you just admit your problem with 'foreigners'? Why don't you answer any of my arguments?
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Feb 3, 2005 9:01:40 GMT 1
chrisj - Whatever i say you will disagree with, i have no problem with foreigners at all, what i have a problem with is people like you that are bigoted and who cannot discuss immigration issues without resorting to the skin colour issue and presumption that i am racist because i dont subscribe to an open door policy to any tom, dick or harry that whishes to decend onto British shores.
I subscribe to a managed and fully reported and controlled immigration policy that this country can live with, what i dont subscribe to is 250,000 immigrants from all creeds and colours coming to Britain every single year as that is completely uncerstainable on the UK infrastructure.
Iwould be interested in your thoughts on how many new immigrants you think this country can sustain every year chrisj?
|
|
|
Post by shrewinjapan on Feb 3, 2005 10:05:34 GMT 1
How many people leave the UK every year? What's the birthrate? Is the total population at a peak and the working age population shrinking as it is in Japan? 250,000 a year may well be sustainable or even necessary.
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 3, 2005 10:13:50 GMT 1
How many people leave the UK every year? What's the birthrate? Is the total population at a peak and the working age population shrinking as it is in Japan? 250,000 a year may well be sustainable or even necessary. 125,000 leave the UK every year. About 150,000 enter the UK. The 250,000 figure quoted on this thread is a Daily Mail rounded up to the nearest quarter million figure
|
|
|
Post by profPATpending on Feb 3, 2005 10:37:02 GMT 1
face it your no better than the likes of Cynicalshrew, i recall your tosh a few years back about the oilIraq war, i hear on the news this morning that Bush has set his eyesights on Iran now, must be music to your ears Kickin
|
|
|
Post by profPATpending on Feb 3, 2005 10:38:14 GMT 1
also your Anti Homosexual rhetoric you spouted..,
|
|
|
Post by Minor on Feb 3, 2005 11:11:26 GMT 1
Yes, unfortuatley there are people who would rather take unemployment that work in an unfashionable job, like in a meat factory etc. The attitude p**ses me off. If you're a hard worker there will always be chances for you to progress within the company and, if nothing else, it proves to future employers that you're motivated. Sadly though there are some lazy b@stards in the UK.
|
|
chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
|
Post by chrisj on Feb 3, 2005 20:28:44 GMT 1
chrisj - Whatever i say you will disagree with, i have no problem with foreigners at all, what i have a problem with is people like you that are bigoted and who cannot discuss immigration issues without resorting to the skin colour issue and presumption that i am racist because i dont subscribe to an open door policy to any tom, dick or harry that whishes to decend onto British shores. I subscribe to a managed and fully reported and controlled immigration policy that this country can live with, what i dont subscribe to is 250,000 immigrants from all creeds and colours coming to Britain every single year as that is completely uncerstainable on the UK infrastructure. Iwould be interested in your thoughts on how many new immigrants you think this country can sustain every year chrisj? Well, I don't honestly know, but the difference between us is that I won't go making numbers up and deliberately distorting the truth - hell, lets not beat about the bush; telling lies - to support my argument. You know that figure of '250,000 immigrants' is bollox, but you keep on shouting about it. You know that Britain does not have an 'open door' policy, but you keep repeating the lie. Why? Because, as your past and current rantings show, you hate gays, foreigners, liberals, the 'PC brigade' and anyone who dares disagree with you. You try to dress it up as 'honest debate' but you're neither honest nor having a debate - will you answer a single one of my questions or arguments? Ever? Please don't bother to reply if all you're going to say is the same old garbage about 'free for all' 'open door' policies.
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Feb 5, 2005 21:49:21 GMT 1
Whether Immigration is a big issue at the election or not what is certain is that none of the main parties, UKIP, Kilroy's exercise in self-aggrandisment of the phony Celtic nationalists will even attempt to address what the majority of Britons want, although many are too brow beaten to say so.
Few white people want to live in immigrant areas. Few whites are happy with whole areas of their towns being colonised. Those who claim they do are heard louder because dissenting from the official line means persecution (loss of job, friends, harrasment) for those articulate enough to do so, whilst the broad masses, thoroughly decent though they are, are unable to say clearly for themselves arguments that are heard only on the websites of "disreputable" organisations.
These people are now muttering so we get the usual spin about cracking down on 'asylum seekers', and 'controlled migration, whilst tens and hundreds of thousands arrive each year because the elite need cheap labour. Of course, once the cheap labour realises that working for £4.50 aint much fun.... ....you get your second and third generation immigrants joining the dole queue.
We need immigration stopped, all illegals deported, all chain migration stopped (no marrying your village idiot cousin from Bangladesh), for starters. We need to abolish the CRE and all race laws. We need to ensure that those here are assimilated as seamlessly and quickly as possible, and if Abdul is still averaging four children when the rest of us have two then he is not assimilated. We need to offer real incentives to individuals and receiving countries for a system of voluntary repatriation.
Chances of being offered this? Zero.
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 5, 2005 22:16:58 GMT 1
What utter drivel you spout Cynical Shrew.
Read the whole thread.
I can take you to places of work in Shrewsbury where people who came to this country looking to improve themseleves now hold management positions earning over £30,000 a year because the 'locals' would not work hard for a few years learning a trade.
Not that you would know anything about working hard
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Feb 5, 2005 22:37:20 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by dachs on Feb 5, 2005 22:56:08 GMT 1
Terrific argument there, well done
|
|
|
Post by CuyBlueImmigrant on Feb 5, 2005 23:14:12 GMT 1
We need to offer real incentives to individuals and receiving (sic) countries for a system of voluntary repatriation. Chances of being offered this? Zero. Jeez - I thought I was going to get a free ride - then my hopes cruelly dashed
|
|
|
Post by MartinB on Feb 6, 2005 9:59:22 GMT 1
Dont forget students there Tel, We'll happily work anywhere during the holidays for £4.85 p/h, tho' nights are better as the wage goes up by 65 p/h The way I see it is that there are and will be people who comnplain about the foreigners taking all "our" jobs, yet when asked by the jobshop to go for an interview for some "low status" job will do all they can to get out of it. You cant have it both ways... AWould be interesting to hear Martin Bs' thoughts on this... Two questions here firstly wages then the complaining about foreigners taking "our" jobs. On the wage issue with the minimum wage set where it is and with Working Tax Credits, in 99.9% of cases people will be better off financial by working. I saw someone recently who currently receives each week the total of £55 jobseekers allowance and £65 Housing and Council Tax Benefit . If they took a job working 30 hours a week at the minimum wage after they had paid their rent and Council Tax in full they would have had £155 a week in their hand compared to the current £55. Still didn't want to take the job beacuse of the low wage. On the subject of "foreigners taking our jobs" in Southend (which I am sure is pretty typical) if you don't have health issues that make it harder for you to find work, if you want a job you can get one quite easily. With this being the case I don't see the problem with people coming into the Country to fill jobs if we don't have the people who have the skills or the work ethic to do the job. Who's the stupid person, the one who has lived on £2860 per year for all their food/clothing and entertainment or the one who has lived on £8060 a year for the same things? On another reply loiterer said "If everyone stopped seeing people who are different to them as a threat then the world would be a better place " totally agree. What is different apart for someone's skin colour, it's the same as "famous people" why should they be treated differently. We all eat, breath, go to the toilet the same, where is the problem. As my daughter would say "It's what's on the inside that is important not the outside" I would rather have one friend from a different Country than 100 "friends" who share the views of someone like Coward Shrew. Sorry for the long reply but H_W_A did ask for my view ;D
|
|
|
Post by Tony_HullShrew on Feb 6, 2005 10:32:20 GMT 1
So lets live a life of isolation from the rest of the world. Where we are missing skills, lets go without. I'll tell you what, lets not import anything from elswhere, grow our own food, make our own electronic equipment and cars, but only rely on the British workforce (the ones who want to stay in this country). Yes, there is immigration and yes, some people come to this country and offend, don't work etc. But even more white British people sit on their fat @sses and falsley claim benefit, beat old women up, sexually assault adults and children, cause football violence, shout racial abuse etc etc. Most problems in this country are caused by the white indiginous population - lets send them home! , they are home! As it happens a hell of a lot of Brits travel to other countries to get a better life. We don't complain. I don't know what the other countries think. we send our lager louts abroad to cause devistation, we buy our goods cheaply so others can live in poverty and when Brits emmigrate, it is not usually to help out another countries problems. In the past when there have been immigration scares, more Brits were leaving than others coming in. I think the balance has moved, but not to the extent that we are flooded and you will find that a lot of those coming in are paid low wages, exploited and bnot claiming benefits. Take the "illegal immigrants" that come over - no benefits, scared of being found and chucked out, but picking our fruit and veg for a pittance, so we can buy it cheaper. The system is firmly biassed in our favour, but no politician is going to tell us this as it would be political suicide. Lets be a bit more welcoming and fair minded and not throw fodder to the BNP activists and UKIP non-policy party who get their parlimentary seats on this hyped up hate propaganda - and sorry Kickin: It is uninformed hate propaganda.
|
|
chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
|
Post by chrisj on Feb 6, 2005 11:52:27 GMT 1
Whether Immigration is a big issue at the election or not what is certain is that none of the main parties, UKIP, Kilroy's exercise in self-aggrandisment of the phony Celtic nationalists will even attempt to address what the majority of Britons want, although many are too brow beaten to say so. Few white people want to live in immigrant areas. Few whites are happy with whole areas of their towns being colonised. Those who claim they do are heard louder because dissenting from the official line means persecution (loss of job, friends, harrasment) for those articulate enough to do so, whilst the broad masses, thoroughly decent though they are, are unable to say clearly for themselves arguments that are heard only on the websites of " disreputable" organisations. These people are now muttering so we get the usual spin about cracking down on 'asylum seekers', and 'controlled migration, whilst tens and hundreds of thousands arrive each year because the elite need cheap labour. Of course, once the cheap labour realises that working for £4.50 aint much fun.... ....you get your second and third generation immigrants joining the dole queue. We need immigration stopped, all illegals deported, all chain migration stopped (no marrying your village idiot cousin from Bangladesh), for starters. We need to abolish the CRE and all race laws. We need to ensure that those here are assimilated as seamlessly and quickly as possible, and if Abdul is still averaging four children when the rest of us have two then he is not assimilated. We need to offer real incentives to individuals and receiving countries for a system of voluntary repatriation. Chances of being offered this? Zero. That was a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the British National Party. Who are actually really nice people with a genuine desire to make the world a better place for everyone. No, really! They're just misunderstood. Honest, not an ounce of racism in any of 'em. And they'll make the trains run on time too...
|
|