|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 8, 2024 7:55:16 GMT 1
Whilst I'm sure it won't hurt him in the grand scheme of things this might make Starmer feel a tad uncomfortable. This is from Jonathan Hayes, the man who tried to disarm the Southport stabber and was knifed in the leg as a result... “I actually don’t think that the trouble on the Right has got anything at all to do with the Southport stabbings. There appears to be a strong undercurrent of discontent for some time about the levels of immigration. And this is just a catalyst or a trigger, but I don’t think it’s the root cause. I do get dismayed when I hear Keir Starmer talking about [how] the police are going to come down with the full force of the law on these people. But they are not actually talking about the root cause, and they need to start listening and understanding that. They need to address the cause rather than the symptoms…”This was welcome from Paul Stephenson, former Met Commissioner too.. Watch: Ex-Met police chief blasts Starmer over riots
And the footage of Emlyn Richards from the West Midlands Police being interviewed on Sky News really was something else. Having watched that I simply can not take anyone seriously if they still maintain there is no two tier policing. He knows they messed up and he knows that he has exposed what many of us have been saying since all this started. His face said it all. Still, still one or two outbreaks of violence last night (and one local MP suggesting that with no "far right" on the streets the one demo reverted to type and reverted to anti-Semitism) but well done to all who were out and protested peacefully. Hopefully things are starting to peter out now. Maybe we have to see how things go again at the weekend but fingers crossed. Whether its too early to start looking ahead already we have to wait and see but there is the question of what happens now. Are Starmer and Labour going to actually start talking about the root causes, will they start listening and make some effort to understand peoples concerns. I don't have a great deal of confidence that they will, indeed I think there is a very good chance they will only make things worse (more so looking to how they have handled this current disorder). So then I guess it's back to square one and awaiting next incident that will set things off again.  |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 8, 2024 8:22:09 GMT 1
But if we define terrorism as the "use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature" I can understand why the discussion is being had. But whether we can say for sure that this is political motivated, not sure...but I think this will be discussed a fair bit over the coming days. However, I agree with you with regard to the threat posed by the far-right and Islamists (even with what we have seen over the last few day), the statistics speak for themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by ProudSalopian on Aug 8, 2024 9:46:09 GMT 1
I note that crowds of people have been out in force in numerous locations protesting against the thuggish idiots who have caused so much trouble. How brilliant is that. Citizens in our towns and cities making their views known and saying immigrants are welcome here and basically standing up to those who would spew out their racial hatred . Wonderful , I wonder what Farage and his filthy followers make of this latest news. Whilst I'm certainly not against your general sentiment, just a couple of things to point out Firstly, last night was actually comical in a way, towns & citites becoming ghost towns, shops boarded up, police out in force and thousands of people out to 'counter-protest'. The thing was, there were no protests to counter. This whole thing seemed based on a lsit of 100 so called planned protests, a few right wing accounts I follow had said there were only ever a handful of planned protests and they have no idea where this list came from. I have a feeling that there's some teenage troll sat at home pleased with the chaos he caused. The second thing I'd point out is whilst I know the media show thousands of people of all races & religions alongside each other in their counter-protests, what they didn't show (again) was the groups of asians roaming the streets in places like Sheffield & Middlesbrough, armed and hunting for anyone they suspected of being far right. I know the response will be that they are 'scared' (which I personally find hilarious) but how about reversing it now, how about the people of Sheffield & Middlesbrough who are scared seeing large gangs roaming with machetes and potentially being targeted because of the colour of their skin? Where is the universal condemnation like we (rightly) saw for the protests from the far right? |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 8, 2024 10:41:28 GMT 1
I note that crowds of people have been out in force in numerous locations protesting against the thuggish idiots who have caused so much trouble. How brilliant is that. Citizens in our towns and cities making their views known and saying immigrants are welcome here and basically standing up to those who would spew out their racial hatred . Wonderful , I wonder what Farage and his filthy followers make of this latest news. Firstly, last night was actually comical in a way, towns & citites becoming ghost towns, shops boarded up, police out in force and thousands of people out to 'counter-protest'. The thing was, there were no protests to counter. This whole thing seemed based on a lsit of 100 so called planned protests, a few right wing accounts I follow had said there were only ever a handful of planned protests and they have no idea where this list came from. I have a feeling that there's some teenage troll sat at home pleased with the chaos he caused. You have to wonder don't you. As I do wonder whether the focus will be turned away somewhat from the incident in Southport, the solider who was attacked and stabbed on his doorstep, the riots in Leeds, the riots in London, the scenes in Southend, etc. Which I am sure is very much welcome news for some but I suspect will mean that the conversations that need to be had about those incidents (and the underlying causes) will once again fall to the wayside. Which was perhaps the point of the misinformation, that we now have the far-right back in their box and we can all carry on as usual again. Until the next time of course. Mind you, I've already caught the one clip from a counter protest of someone blaming Israel and Zionist for the recent riots. So there certainly were extremists out on the streets last night. 👍 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2024 11:03:31 GMT 1
Hopefully last night shows we’re past the peak of these scenes of riots, disorder, and general tension. Then we need the police and prosecution services to continue to chip away at the miscreants, and the government to show genuine signs of progress towards addressing the root cause of the problem, without pandering to the most extreme.
It’s been a good week to be out of the country, but still very disturbing following from afar.
|
|
hankmaloysenior
Midland League Division One
When it's time to party, we will party hard!
Posts: 462
|
Post by hankmaloysenior on Aug 8, 2024 11:04:08 GMT 1
Quite. And if Starmer does address it - it'll be very interesting to see the rhetoric and terminology used. He and others in the media, social media and even on here, have been very quick to call the rioters scum, neanderthals etc (which is completely justified for a significant proportion causing direct violence). Will he and others use the same terminology for Muslim rioters? I'm not sure whether there's two-tier policing but there's undoubtedly a two-tier response from Labour and some on the left in relation to any issues relating to the Muslim community. The level of mental gymnastics to justify or ignore issues is astonishing. It's one of the main reasons the grooming scandal went on so long and was so widespread. I suspect there are some who don't know how to approach the condemnation and are terrified of being branded Islamophobic but I also think there's a level of sub-conscious bigotry (the bigotry of low expectations) and white saviour complex. Islam has a growing population of around 2 billion, with funding driven from the some of the richest countries on earth and an ideology that largely aligns with most right wing beliefs. Ironically, most Muslims are more conservative, than most conservatives. It's absolutely fine to be direct and criticise Islam and Muslims when required. Why not just call out the terrorism for what it is. Attempting to burn down hotels of asylum seekers and terrorising communities of people because of the colour of their skin and/or their religion is exactly this. 5 days of watching what has occured in Manchester, Westminster, Hull, Sunderland, Liverpool, Plymouth, Middlesbrough etc has understandably put a community on edge. As a result some people having watched the police seemingly stand watching as hotels are set alight, shops, library's etc torched, people are stopped from driving or dragged out of their cars if they're not white or had private property such as cars and front windows caved in. So yes community vigilantism kicks in. The reality is that in Birmingham community elders visited that pub and apologised for the behaviour of the yobs. We've got people post GB news clips- such bad faith actors that they make the Mail look impartial... But back to the case in hand. Let's call this out for what it is-terrorism. The fat right are terrorising British citizen and causing millions of pounds of damage. I'm worried about all extremism. Just as Islamic extremism is an internationally funded business so is far right- funding streams coming from international right wing think tanks funded propogating an islamophobic far right view of the world backed by the likes of the Mercers. But let's focus on the facts in the UK here- the counter policing website states in the year ending March 2023: There was also a greater number of referrals relating to Extreme Right Wing (19%) terrorism concerns compared to Islamist extremism (11%) – a trend which has continued over the last few years. Maybe if we stopped solely focussing on one type of extremism and also concentrated on trying to unpick right wing extremism instead of making excuses for it society would be safer in general. Yeah, great. Call the ones using violence and burning down hotels scum, call them far right, call them terrorists - I don't disagree. By definition they are terrorising the community. That's not the point of my post. The hypocrisy is. Again, the amount of mental gymnastics to avoid legitimate criticism of Islam and Muslims when required by some of left is the issue. And although I agree with much of your general post, there's elements of it here. You frame it as "community vigilantism", rather than calling them out for what they are - also scum. I've seen this counter argument a lot - that they were just protecting the community - that's just one example in Birmingham - there are plenty of Asian gangs out there going far beyond that. And it ignores all the issues relating to the Asian community that weren't a response to the far right. The riots in other cities with other religions and the gang violence (often with machetes and other weapons), which gets no where near the same level of reporting and condemnation. And again, the grooming scandal, which was purposely ignored and buried for years due to the worry over being branded Islamophobic. These aren't myths perpetrated by the far right. Yes, they use them to fuel their own agenda but they did actually happen. The response to them by the left wing needs to be proportional - other wise the suggestion of bias or a two tier society is going to seem completely valid. And you state "people are stopped from driving or dragged out of their cars if they're not white". Many of those who were stopped or dragged out of their cars were Eastern European or Roma. It's that sub-conscious thought process again that all victims have to be "brown". |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 8, 2024 11:28:45 GMT 1
I note that crowds of people have been out in force in numerous locations protesting against the thuggish idiots who have caused so much trouble. How brilliant is that. Citizens in our towns and cities making their views known and saying immigrants are welcome here and basically standing up to those who would spew out their racial hatred . Wonderful , I wonder what Farage and his filthy followers make of this latest news. Whilst I'm certainly not against your general sentiment, just a couple of things to point out Firstly, last night was actually comical in a way, towns & citites becoming ghost towns, shops boarded up, police out in force and thousands of people out to 'counter-protest'. The thing was, there were no protests to counter. This whole thing seemed based on a lsit of 100 so called planned protests, a few right wing accounts I follow had said there were only ever a handful of planned protests and they have no idea where this list came from. I have a feeling that there's some teenage troll sat at home pleased with the chaos he caused. The second thing I'd point out is whilst I know the media show thousands of people of all races & religions alongside each other in their counter-protests, what they didn't show (again) was the groups of asians roaming the streets in places like Sheffield & Middlesbrough, armed and hunting for anyone they suspected of being far right. I know the response will be that they are 'scared' (which I personally find hilarious) but how about reversing it now, how about the people of Sheffield & Middlesbrough who are scared seeing large gangs roaming with machetes and potentially being targeted because of the colour of their skin? Where is the universal condemnation like we (rightly) saw for the protests from the far right? Laugh a minute aren't you. The police being proactive in preparing just in case is ccomical. Bring scared of thugs is hilarious.... |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 8, 2024 11:37:52 GMT 1
And again, the grooming scandal, which was purposely ignored and buried for years due to the worry over being branded Islamophobic. I do think we're again seeing people ignoring, downplaying or excusing the actions of certain demographics because they are paralyzed by identity politics. You would hope lessons would have been learnt from Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford, etc. but I can't help feel that's not the case. As "community vigilantism"?  Birmingham put pay to that, why anyone would want to use such terms after what was reported from there the other night is beyond me. And that might well have been the case in Stoke the other day too from what eye witnesses have said (where you had another large mob walking around Hanley unchallenged armed with weapons). |
|
|
|
Post by ProudSalopian on Aug 8, 2024 12:57:55 GMT 1
Laugh a minute aren't you. The police being proactive in preparing just in case is ccomical. Bring scared of thugs is hilarious.... The reason why I found last night comical was because of the hysteria that had been whipped up, particularly ironic considering the politicians/police talking about misinformation. I was reading Nick Lowles (Hopenothate) saying it's clear the list was a hoax. The reason why I've said I find the claims of being scared being hilarious is because seeing groups of men walking down the streets with machetes, attacking innocent people and they are supposed to be the scared ones. They certainly didn't seem scared in the video's I've seen where they say they don't need the police/the extra fundng from Starmer because they can look after themselves. So yes, I do find the claims that these people are scared as hilarious. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 8, 2024 13:06:12 GMT 1
Laugh a minute aren't you. The police being proactive in preparing just in case is ccomical. Bring scared of thugs is hilarious.... The reason why I found last night comical was because of the hysteria that had been whipped up, particularly ironic considering the politicians/police talking about misinformation. I was reading Nick Lowles (Hopenothate) saying it's clear the list was a hoax. The reason why I've said I find the claims of being scared being hilarious is because seeing groups of men walking down the streets with machetes, attacking innocent people and they are supposed to be the scared ones. They certainly didn't seem scared in the video's I've seen where they say they don't need the police/the extra fundng from Starmer because they can look after themselves. So yes, I do find the claims that these people are scared as hilarious. Let's say there's a rumour going around, either by a troll or deliberately organised to cause fear, that your street your property, is going to be smashed up by thugs tonight. What would you do? Mhat would your local young men do? |
|
|
|
Post by ProudSalopian on Aug 8, 2024 13:18:15 GMT 1
Let's say there's a rumour going around, either by a troll or deliberately organised to cause fear, that your street your property, is going to be smashed up by thugs tonight. What would you do? Yep I would expect the local community to turn out in a show of strength, although I probably wouldn't expect them to have an arsenal of weapons or then go around seeking out confrontation with innocent people. Along a similar vein, can I ask you a question then, lets play out the following scenario We play Wrexham this season, there are rumours Wrexham hooligans are turning out and planning to attack a series of pubs. The Shrewsbury locals get wind of this and turn up en masse to defend the pubs. The Wrexham group do not turn up so instead a mob of heavily armed Shrewsbury fans go around roaming the streets, searching for anyone they suspect to be Wrexham fans resulting in innocent people being attacked and cars/pubs being damaged. What is your reaction and the general reaction on here? The Shrewsbury fans are scared and just wanting to protect their community? Or the Shrewsbury fans are mindless thugs? |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 8, 2024 13:39:34 GMT 1
It's a scared and wanting to protect their community from me But the right sort of police intervention would reassure and deter vigilante actions.
|
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Aug 8, 2024 13:48:53 GMT 1
I note that crowds of people have been out in force in numerous locations protesting against the thuggish idiots who have caused so much trouble. How brilliant is that. Citizens in our towns and cities making their views known and saying immigrants are welcome here and basically standing up to those who would spew out their racial hatred . Wonderful , I wonder what Farage and his filthy followers make of this latest news. Whilst I'm certainly not against your general sentiment, just a couple of things to point out Firstly, last night was actually comical in a way, towns & citites becoming ghost towns, shops boarded up, police out in force and thousands of people out to 'counter-protest'. The thing was, there were no protests to counter. This whole thing seemed based on a lsit of 100 so called planned protests, a few right wing accounts I follow had said there were only ever a handful of planned protests and they have no idea where this list came from. I have a feeling that there's some teenage troll sat at home pleased with the chaos he caused. The second thing I'd point out is whilst I know the media show thousands of people of all races & religions alongside each other in their counter-protests, what they didn't show (again) was the groups of asians roaming the streets in places like Sheffield & Middlesbrough, armed and hunting for anyone they suspected of being far right. I know the response will be that they are 'scared' (which I personally find hilarious) but how about reversing it now, how about the people of Sheffield & Middlesbrough who are scared seeing large gangs roaming with machetes and potentially being targeted because of the colour of their skin? Where is the universal condemnation like we (rightly) saw for the protests from the far right? Just looked at the Sheffield local paper and can see no mention of the large gangs roaming with machetes targeting people because of their colour., that you mention. Where is your source? |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Aug 8, 2024 13:57:53 GMT 1
Whilst I'm certainly not against your general sentiment, just a couple of things to point out Firstly, last night was actually comical in a way, towns & citites becoming ghost towns, shops boarded up, police out in force and thousands of people out to 'counter-protest'. The thing was, there were no protests to counter. This whole thing seemed based on a lsit of 100 so called planned protests, a few right wing accounts I follow had said there were only ever a handful of planned protests and they have no idea where this list came from. I have a feeling that there's some teenage troll sat at home pleased with the chaos he caused. The second thing I'd point out is whilst I know the media show thousands of people of all races & religions alongside each other in their counter-protests, what they didn't show (again) was the groups of asians roaming the streets in places like Sheffield & Middlesbrough, armed and hunting for anyone they suspected of being far right. I know the response will be that they are 'scared' (which I personally find hilarious) but how about reversing it now, how about the people of Sheffield & Middlesbrough who are scared seeing large gangs roaming with machetes and potentially being targeted because of the colour of their skin? Where is the universal condemnation like we (rightly) saw for the protests from the far right? Just looked at the Sheffield local paper and can see no mention of the large gangs roaming with machetes targeting people because of their colour., that you mention. Where is your source? Sounds like you might be fathoming out how the media works… Here you go, as you say, totally unreported by the MSM. There’s a lot more video evidence out there too, weapons being marauded by vile masked hooligans and thugs on England's streets |
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Aug 8, 2024 16:58:48 GMT 1
The most vile, incendiary comments of this whole sorry episode. Abhorrent
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 8, 2024 18:43:15 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2024 6:06:20 GMT 1
The most vile, incendiary comments of this whole sorry episode. Abhorrent That guy needs to be arrested and jailed. Stupid and dangerous statement to say the least. That kind of idiocy has no place in the UK whichever side of the fence you are on. Fortunately no one has been seriously injured or killed in the protests, but with incendiary comments like that it could only be a matter of time. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 9, 2024 6:54:07 GMT 1
Laugh a minute aren't you. The police being proactive in preparing just in case is ccomical. Bring scared of thugs is hilarious.... I was reading Nick Lowles (Hopenothate) saying it's clear the list was a hoax. Same chap who spread misinformation about someone having acid thrown at them in Middlesbrough isn't it? Which was then shared by a Labour MP. I understand people are now getting arrested for spreading misinformation online, lets see if these pair get a knock on the door.  |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 9, 2024 11:14:48 GMT 1
I was reading Nick Lowles (Hopenothate) saying it's clear the list was a hoax. Same chap who spread misinformation about someone having acid thrown at them in Middlesbrough isn't it? Which was then shared by a Labour MP. I understand people are now getting arrested for spreading misinformation online, lets see if these pair get a knock on the door. I assume this MP has been as careful with his words as Farage is. As for hoax protests, I suppose if the police had not acted you would have no beef with them if anything had happened which might include a bunch of knuckle draggers responding to a fake call to arms As an aside, one mosgue leader is named Farouk Farage, perhaps understandably he goes by the name Hama. Is Nigel not telling us something😀 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2024 12:56:19 GMT 1
The biggest issue with Twitter/X at the moment, only takes one person to post something that’s either inaccurate or a bare faced lie, and people, mainly the political commentators on all sides, in their outrage will pile in and amplify it without even fact checking.
Even Elon Musk himself did this yesterday, retweeting to his millions of followers that Starmer is planning on detainment camps in the Falklands.
It’s not about losing freedom of speech, but if the amount of made up s**t can be reduced (and of course would help if gullible people didn’t automatically believe things because it supports their point of view), that can only be a good thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 9, 2024 16:36:30 GMT 1
Anyone care to retract comments about two tier policing?
Two men who got into a street fight with far-right demonstrators in Leeds on 3 August, were sent to jail after they said they were subjected to racist, inflammatory and provocative language.
They were both in Leeds at an anti-racism protest before becoming involved in "an outbreak of violence" with a group of 10 men.
Both men handed themselves in when they realised they were being sought by police.
Sameer Ali, 21, was sentenced to 20 months in prison for affray.
Adnan Ghafoor, 31, was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison for affray.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2024 20:00:50 GMT 1
Anyone care to retract comments about two tier policing? Two men who got into a street fight with far-right demonstrators in Leeds on 3 August, were sent to jail after they said they were subjected to racist, inflammatory and provocative language. They were both in Leeds at an anti-racism protest before becoming involved in "an outbreak of violence" with a group of 10 men. Both men handed themselves in when they realised they were being sought by police. Sameer Ali, 21, was sentenced to 20 months in prison for affray. Adnan Ghafoor, 31, was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison for affray. And that Labour councillor is being prosecuted too for his awful hate speech. You could argue that the protest and commentary around two tier policing has influenced these decisions and if so it’s been effective protest to have a more equal society going forward. Just a shame they had to smash up towns in the process. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 9, 2024 21:01:04 GMT 1
Personally I think it's better to judge by results and not spread gossip, even on our own small social media platform. As for Elon Musk, what the hell have British affairs got to do with him?
|
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Aug 10, 2024 13:16:39 GMT 1
Personally I think it's better to judge by results and not spread gossip, even on our own small social media platform. As for Elon Musk, what the hell have British affairs got to do with him? So you have never commented on US politics…? Those in glass houses an all that… |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 10, 2024 15:27:07 GMT 1
Personally I think it's better to judge by results and not spread gossip, even on our own small social media platform. As for Elon Musk, what the hell have British affairs got to do with him? So you have never commented on US politics…? Those in glass houses an all that… I have never deliberately tried to stir up unrest. Musk has. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2024 19:24:26 GMT 1
Personally I think it's better to judge by results and not spread gossip, even on our own small social media platform. As for Elon Musk, what the hell have British affairs got to do with him? So you have never commented on US politics…? Those in glass houses an all that… As far as I'm aware 193,000,000+ people don't have access to our posts. He has one of, if not the biggest reaches in the world and there are zero consequences for anything he posts. People are being quite rightly arrested in the UK for spreading hate speech on his platform, but he doesn't have to take any responsibility for it. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 11, 2024 9:56:51 GMT 1
So you have never commented on US politics…? Those in glass houses an all that… Twitter is far from perfect but I do feel it's essential. As I mentioned above, its only because of Twitter that I know of certain news, incidents, etc. as they have been ignored by the MSM. At times I would say it's Twitter that is driving MSM to cover certain things they would rather avoid because Twitter exposes their own coverage and bias. And Musk is far from perfect too but I do feel his spat with Starmer is having an impact, "Two Tier Kier" needs to be called out and if it takes some billionaire in the US to do so then so be it. I do feel he and others who are calling out the double standards has forced Starmer's and the polices hand who now feel they must be seen to be more even handed. Of course the usual suspects are going after Musk, they haven't forgiven him for taking Twitter from them. It used to have a huge leftwing bias where certain hate and opinion was tolerated but not others. Musk saw this, understood the importance of the platform and decided to do something about it. And as the great Thomas Sowell said, “When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”. That is what we are seeing now. Thankfully, as things stand anyhow, Musk appears to be going nowhere and is standing his ground. And just an aside, you now have some trying to place the blame of the recent unrest on Musk, Farage, Reform and others but I think this is just a distraction. They would rather not look to the policies that might well be driving the undercurrent of anger and concern because it is policies that these people have championed, condoned and/or attacked others for raising concerns about. We shouldn't fall for it. I do hope there are still some adults left in the room who will actually start looking to the reasons behind the recent unrest (rather than simply pointing to the far-right). |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 11, 2024 12:16:04 GMT 1
It's simple really, people on all sides need to think before spreading rumours, then there can be no comeback later.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Aug 11, 2024 13:30:25 GMT 1
So you have never commented on US politics…? Those in glass houses an all that… I have never deliberately tried to stir up unrest. Musk has. How do you know what he’s doing? That’s just your opinion not fact, some would say he’s correct in what he’s saying |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 11, 2024 14:13:19 GMT 1
I have never deliberately tried to stir up unrest. Musk has. How do you know what he’s doing? That’s just your opinion not fact, some would say he’s correct in what he’s saying Deliberate because if he didn't know the effect his post might have,as the owner of X, then he's stupid. Do you think he's stupid? A similar charge can be levelled at Nigel With His , “Was this guy being monitored by the security services? … I just wonder whether the truth is being withheld from us,” post. He's an Influential MP, I'm sure a private note to the PM would have resulted in the reassurance he sort. |
|
Birmingham put pay to that, why anyone would want to use such terms after what was reported from there the other night is beyond me. And that might well have been the case in Stoke the other day too from what eye witnesses have said (where you had another large mob walking around Hanley unchallenged armed with weapons).
