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Post by servernaside on Feb 22, 2024 14:46:14 GMT 1
Britain has an historic connection with probably most countries around the world, but these connections do not necessarily affect this country today. Also, there is little chance of the situation in Gaza escalating into a wider conflict. Apart from a few Iranian sponsored troublemakers in Syria, Iraq and Yemen, there is no appetite by any of the neighbouring Arab nations to become involved in this situation.
As regards people resident here who may have a 'cultural or national connection' to the participants, most of the activists involved in the ceaseless protests, probably wouldn't know a Palestinian if they fell over one. It has nothing to do with personal, or national interests and everything to do with nasty, sectarian politics. It's just that the fools in our Parliament cannot see it... neither apparently can venceremos.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Feb 22, 2024 14:46:32 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on Feb 22, 2024 15:13:18 GMT 1
so just to recap the recap if the tories mess up, the tories are to blame if labour messes up , its ok, they are just all as bad as each other ;-)
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 15:51:11 GMT 1
Julia spot on as always. Articulates what I was trying to say in a far more effective way
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Post by Worthingshrew on Feb 22, 2024 17:05:25 GMT 1
This was part of the statement made by Hoyle yesterday when he returned... I take very seriously the danger, that is why I wanted everybody to be able to express their views. I am very, very concerned about the security of all members. I was very concerned, I am still concerned, and that is why the meetings I have had today were about the security of members, their families and the people involved.Britain’s politicians should never bow to a mob
So now it would be interesting to find out how these concerns made there way into his decision making. Don't forget, we've already seen a school teacher in Batley forced to go in to hiding by a similar mob a few years ago. They will stop at nothing to influence their own ideology - a dangerous precipice is facing British politics and more in the not to distant future, this latest awful conflict in Gaza is only serving to highlight it again It will get much worse if that charlatan, George Galloway, gets elected as MP for Rochdale at next week’s by-election.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 22, 2024 17:09:28 GMT 1
Julia spot on as always. Articulates what I was trying to say in a far more effective way If Julia Hardly-Human is your most effective mouthpiece, keeping quiet is the best option.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2024 17:10:38 GMT 1
so just to recap the recap if the tories mess up, the tories are to blame if labour messes up , its ok, they are just all as bad as each other ;-) How did they mess up? They got exactly what they wanted, half way between wishy-washy Rishi and the SNP, who were over the top as usual.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 22, 2024 17:20:06 GMT 1
Britain has an historic connection with probably most countries around the world, but these connections do not necessarily affect this country today. Also, there is little chance of the situation in Gaza escalating into a wider conflict. Apart from a few Iranian sponsored troublemakers in Syria, Iraq and Yemen, there is no appetite by any of the neighbouring Arab nations to become involved in this situation. As regards people resident here who may have a 'cultural or national connection' to the participants, most of the activists involved in the ceaseless protests, probably wouldn't know a Palestinian if they fell over one. It has nothing to do with personal, or national interests and everything to do with nasty, sectarian politics. It's just that the fools in our Parliament cannot see it... neither apparently can venceremos. This is nonsense on stilts. Britain's historic connection with Israel/Palestine is far greater than with most countries around the world. The "few Iranian sponsored troublemakers" have already caused trade disruption through actions in the Red Sea, Israel has stepped up its actions against Hezbollah and Syria and sensible commentators with knowledge of the region recognise the dangers of the Gaza conflict escalating, if not immediately then certainly in the medium term. Do you not regard members of Britain's Jewish diaspora as having a cultural or national connection to Israel? That'll be news to them. As much as you must hate it, Britain is a multicultural society and the citizens of multicultural societies have connections and concerns everywhere. And anyway, who are you to lecture anyone on what their interests and motivations might be? Breathtaking arrogance.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 17:24:42 GMT 1
Julia spot on as always. Articulates what I was trying to say in a far more effective way If Julia Hardly-Human is your most effective mouthpiece, keeping quiet is the best option. Can't say I'm surprised that suggestions of shutting up an opposing view is your first retort... Reasoned alternative opinions to her list of unfortunately factually correct atrocities would lend to far better debate. If anybody is wondering the link to this thread topic, it is to explain a clear, worrying trend over a period of time that has clearly played a part in yesterdays Parliament circus show regarding this horrific conflict
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Post by servernaside on Feb 22, 2024 17:26:54 GMT 1
Britain has an historic connection with probably most countries around the world, but these connections do not necessarily affect this country today. Also, there is little chance of the situation in Gaza escalating into a wider conflict. Apart from a few Iranian sponsored troublemakers in Syria, Iraq and Yemen, there is no appetite by any of the neighbouring Arab nations to become involved in this situation. As regards people resident here who may have a 'cultural or national connection' to the participants, most of the activists involved in the ceaseless protests, probably wouldn't know a Palestinian if they fell over one. It has nothing to do with personal, or national interests and everything to do with nasty, sectarian politics. It's just that the fools in our Parliament cannot see it... neither apparently can venceremos. This is nonsense on stilts. Britain's historic connection with Israel/Palestine is far greater than with most countries around the world. The "few Iranian sponsored troublemakers" have already caused trade disruption through actions in the Red Sea, Israel has stepped up its actions against Hezbollah and Syria and sensible commentators with knowledge of the region recognise the dangers of the Gaza conflict escalating, if not immediately then certainly in the medium term. Do you not regard members of Britain's Jewish diaspora as having a cultural or national connection to Israel? That'll be news to them. As much as you must hate it, Britain is a multicultural society and the citizens of multicultural societies have connections and concerns everywhere. And anyway, who are you to lecture anyone on what their interests and motivations might be? Breathtaking arrogance. The arrogance and nonsense are all yours my friend.....on stilts.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 22, 2024 17:47:57 GMT 1
This should have happened after the murder of David Amess but instead you had a parliament focus, rather bizarrely, on online hate instead...
Hopefully they will now start to take this threat seriously.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 18:19:08 GMT 1
Well said Mr Jenrick - spot on. Sadly I have zero faith the political establishment will tackle this increasingly scary threat, certainly not when the inevitable GE result happens
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Post by venceremos on Feb 22, 2024 19:28:37 GMT 1
If Julia Hardly-Human is your most effective mouthpiece, keeping quiet is the best option. Can't say I'm surprised that suggestions of shutting up an opposing view is your first retort... Reasoned alternative opinions to her list of unfortunately factually correct atrocities would lend to far better debate. If anybody is wondering the link to this thread topic, it is to explain a clear, worrying trend over a period of time that has clearly played a part in yesterdays Parliament circus show regarding this horrific conflict Except I wasn't shutting anyone up but sure, go ahead, claim to be the cancelled victim if you like. You said the dreadful woman was more effective at saying what you had wanted to say. What I was saying, quite clearly, is that I don't consider her to be an effective spokesperson on anything. As the philosopher said, "whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - that's not cancellation, that's wisdom.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 22, 2024 19:36:32 GMT 1
This is nonsense on stilts. Britain's historic connection with Israel/Palestine is far greater than with most countries around the world. The "few Iranian sponsored troublemakers" have already caused trade disruption through actions in the Red Sea, Israel has stepped up its actions against Hezbollah and Syria and sensible commentators with knowledge of the region recognise the dangers of the Gaza conflict escalating, if not immediately then certainly in the medium term. Do you not regard members of Britain's Jewish diaspora as having a cultural or national connection to Israel? That'll be news to them. As much as you must hate it, Britain is a multicultural society and the citizens of multicultural societies have connections and concerns everywhere. And anyway, who are you to lecture anyone on what their interests and motivations might be? Breathtaking arrogance. The arrogance and nonsense are all yours my friend.....on stilts. If you weren't going to respond to the points I made, you had three broad options really: 1. Not respond at all, which would be fair enough. 2. Say something funny, which would also be a good ending. 3. Take it to the playground with a puerile response. Ah well, you made your choice and your little friend liked it.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2024 21:10:41 GMT 1
Foreign policy is absolutely the business of Parliament, regardless of yesterday's circus. When Russia attacked Ukraine, did you expect Parliament not to debate and comment on it? When thousands are dying in Gaza, should Parliament be silent? Of course it doesn't change the situation on the ground directly, but it does contribute to the international discussion and the influence that brings to bear on the parties involved. These crises don't take place in a vacuum. Extending the logic of your argument, is there any point in having a Foreign Office, or a Foreign Secretary, if we're only to be concerned with domestic matters? And, on that subject, you assume that "the people who elected them in the first place" aren't concerned with the views of their representatives on the subject. I'd guess that millions of voters (Jewish, Muslim and neither) are. There is a distinct difference between foreign policy matters which directly affect this country and those which do not. The situation in Gaza clearly does not affect this country, while that in Ukraine to quote your example, does so because a) Ukraine borders NATO countries b) Britain provides military assistance to Ukraine For a start, haven't we already seen missile attacks on British shipping by groups who say they are doing so because of the Gaza war? An unstable middle east = higher oil prices, that affects us too. In addition I have a suspicion that the high ups in Hamas, the planners of terror, have already fled to other countries, maybe here if our borders are as weak as we are led to believe. Probably leaving the foot soldiers, those being held captive and millions of ordinary people to face the wrath of an Israeli government who don't want a two state solution, which, by implication, means they want rid of an independent state of Palestine.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 21:28:18 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2024 21:40:12 GMT 1
So powerful that there aren't many MPs who can be bothered to be there. All superfluous political nonsense while the Israeli government's persecution of civilians goes on unabated.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 21:49:39 GMT 1
So powerful that there aren't many MPs who can be bothered to be there. All superfluous political nonsense while the Israeli government's persecution of civilians goes on unabated. Wow. Just wow
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2024 21:53:09 GMT 1
So powerful that there aren't many MPs who can be bothered to be there. All superfluous political nonsense while the Israeli government's persecution of civilians goes on unabated. Wow. Just wow Well, perhaps he should visit Palestine and see if he feels safer there....
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 22:02:41 GMT 1
Well, perhaps he should visit Palestine and see if he feels safer there.... Please stop 🤦🏻♂️
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 22, 2024 22:12:40 GMT 1
Well, perhaps he should visit Palestine and see if he feels safer there.... Please stop 🤦🏻♂️ To be honest maybe it's the thoughts of Julia and Jenrick that ought to be on a separate thread. This Middle East Confict thread seems to have been railroaded.
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Post by jamo on Feb 22, 2024 22:27:54 GMT 1
Quite interesting to observe the very clearly orchestrated narrative being presented very strongly by the entire hard right of the government. Today alone we have had Jenrick , Bravermann and a quite hilariously hysterical rant by Truss in New York. This high on emotion, low on fact garbage by Andrew Percy is all part of the dance.
They are losing the moral high ground and it’s beginning to tell.
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Post by Valerioch on Feb 22, 2024 22:29:58 GMT 1
To be honest maybe it's the thoughts of Julia and Jenrick that ought to be on a separate thread. This Middle East Confict thread seems to have been railroaded. No it hasn’t. I have explained above, as have the clips shared, that yesterdays events in Parliament regarding the Gaza conflict, are intrinsically linked with radicals intimidating, abusing or even worse, our MP’s. The Speaker himself has admitted as much. The two are wedded together whether you like it or not, or whether you are willing to open your eyes and see it or not. Personally I’m more concerned about defending democracy on our shores The anti-Semitic chant lyrics being projected on to the Elizabeth Tower haven’t even been mentioned yet either. Scary times
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 23, 2024 7:40:06 GMT 1
...certainly not when the inevitable GE result happens I tend to agree. I think Wednesday was a sign of things to come.
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 23, 2024 8:17:38 GMT 1
There is a distinct difference between foreign policy matters which directly affect this country and those which do not. The situation in Gaza clearly does not affect this country, while that in Ukraine to quote your example, does so because a) Ukraine borders NATO countries b) Britain provides military assistance to Ukraine For a start, haven't we already seen missile attacks on British shipping by groups who say they are doing so because of the Gaza war? An unstable middle east = higher oil prices, that affects us too. In addition I have a suspicion that the high ups in Hamas, the planners of terror, have already fled to other countries, maybe here if our borders are as weak as we are led to believe. Probably leaving the foot soldiers, those being held captive and millions of ordinary people to face the wrath of an Israeli government who don't want a two state solution, which, by implication, means they want rid of an independent state of Palestine. It's funny how one of the best funded and equipped intelligence services in the world is somehow incapable of tracking down these Hamas leaders and 'neutralising' the threat. It's almost as if they didn't want to cut the head off the snake, maybe because they are still using that snake to terrify their own citizens into backing the assault on the foot soldiers that are easily replaceable. Not so easy to rebuild a new terrorist hierarchy without those leaders.
Cynical? Moi?
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 11, 2024 17:16:51 GMT 1
Ramadan Kareem
Must be a crescent moon, now all that's needed is a ceasefire.
Peace for all.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 25, 2024 20:49:50 GMT 1
Israel has seen its population and percentage of the worldwide Jewish population rise massively over the last 40 years or so. In 1980 around 25% of the Jews in the world lived in Israel, by 2011 it had risen to 43%, where it has for the most part remained. The population of Israel has more than doubled in that time and the Gaza strip has the potential to become a fantastic piece of prime coastal real estate, once they can get rid of those pesky Palestinians.
Well that didn't take long for the true reason for the obliteration of Gaza to come to light. Seems like that prime real estate could soon be up for grabs.
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Post by jamo on Mar 25, 2024 22:34:52 GMT 1
Whilst this whole mess started as a necessary reaction to the horrific events of October 7th- and the real need for the IDF to seek to engage Hamas, this changed from being the case and just turned into a full on land grab some months ago.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 26, 2024 1:00:09 GMT 1
Benjamin Netanyahu and his coalition have finally stretched the yanks to breaking point. Just like the UK, Israel is in desperate need of an election.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 27, 2024 11:48:57 GMT 1
Guys just to say , over the last week or so a few of us mods have been discussing 2 or 3 new rules
the gist is , if a mod , mods something they have done it for a specific reason as to why they think the post(s) are better not being on the forum ( now if you have any issues with that you must take it up in private with that or another mod(s) The public inquests about a missing post or thread , the questions never serve any good and only make matters worse , the other 2 are also what we believe are spoiling the fun on here , and that's avoiding someone's opinion and instead attacking them as a person in any which way possible , and finally naming another member to joke or discuss them , it's not nice
Please don't reply to this ,count to 10 , this thread is for your opinions on the Middle East war only , don't start our own war
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