Sturgeon

[martinshrew]

news.sky.com/story/scotlands-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-is-to-resign-12811532

Good riddance, although worse is probably on the way. A huge failure of a politician.

[wookeywombat]

That's as well maybe, but several times better than any of the clowns that have been PM in Westminster during her time.

[martinshrew]

Feb 15, 2023 12:15:03 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

That's as well maybe, but several times better than any of the clowns that have been PM in Westminster during her time.

What metrics are you judging that on?

Drug deaths, woeful education results, poor NHS, expensive projects like the ferries that doesn't sail costing millions?

She's been a disaster for Scotland.

[stuttgartershrew]

Feb 15, 2023 12:30:10 GMT 1 martinshrew said:

Feb 15, 2023 12:15:03 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

That's as well maybe, but several times better than any of the clowns that have been PM in Westminster during her time.

Drug deaths, woeful education results, poor NHS, expensive projects like the ferries that doesn't sail costing millions?

All of which were raised in the question and answer session after her resignation speech, one or two in the press weren't slow in pointing out her record (what she said herself she should be judged on).

I do agree with her comments about the pandemic; as I've said more than the once on here, I'm sure it has taken an awful lot out of those who were responsible at the time. I'm sure it took it's toll. That said though, it wasn't that long that she stated that she had plenty left in the tank. So why the change of mind? I'm sure she will try to dress this up as something other than what it is but for me this is what can happen when ideology meets reality. It's not much of a shock this as I suspect some would have us believe.

[Valerioch]

Superb news that - made my day

[staffordshrew]

Good news, add that to Nadine Dorries and it's been a good week.  From the way she spoke, no way back for Truss either, even better.

If I never hear of any of those, plus Salmond, again, it will be too soon.

[armchairfan]

Let's be honest here: the SNP exists for one reason and one reason only, which is to bring about the independence of Scotland from the UK; Ms Sturgeon's alleged successes or failures in those other areas of policy are of no significance to either her or the SNP - for that reason, the only question which SNP members have to address is whether they believe that her period in office has furthered that cause or hindered it.

Personally, I considered her and her policies to be antagonistic and objectionable, but I do have a degree of sympathy with her comment that politics in general has become increasingly "brutal" - the trouble is that in my opinion, she was as much the instigator as the "victim".
Will the SNP wish to continue with the cult of victimhood at the hands of Westminster? I have no idea.

[zenfootball2]

Feb 15, 2023 12:15:03 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

That's as well maybe, but several times better than any of the clowns that have been PM in Westminster during her time.

im not a fan of sturegeon but as for been an astute politician she ran rings round every PM she faced but on domestic matters hardly a huge sucess, child poverty on the rise, drug related deaths  on the rise, education standers falling ,huge over spends and lack of oversight on majore projects.the SNP have been in power since 2007 and Sturegeon has led scotland for 8 years. 
im sure the woke press and scottish press who seem incapable of holding the SNP to ccount will all be singing her praise History may judge otherwise
it is sad for the uk that England and scotland have had two partys with such a grip on power.

when the New Zealand PM resign she was asked about would she resign or did she have anything in the tank  i cant recall her exact answer but the gist was no.that was only 27 days ago the only thing that changed was her raming the gender reforms  through and the case of the rapist/trans person been sent to a womens prision and for the first time she lost her teflon ability and also for a change the press actually pressed her on it and she looked like a rabbit in the headlights, i cant for one monet think she went willingly she wanted to be part of history and lead scotland to independance and what has changed in 27 years. it would be nice to think that her sucessor would focus on the domestic policies rather htan been a one trick pony but i doubt.


www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/drug-related-deaths-rise
"1,339 drug-related deaths were registered in Scotland in 2020, an increase of 5%"

www.gov.scot/news/child-poverty-gradually-rising/

"Two out of the four child poverty measures in the Child Poverty (Scotland) Act show a gradual increase, and two show little change. While the poverty risk is much lower for children where someone in the household is in paid work compared to those in workless households, not all work pays enough to lift the household above the poverty line. Over two thirds of children in poverty live in a household with someone in paid work."

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/comment/nats-destroyed-five-centuries-scottish-27700450

"In pretty much every field of human activity, Scots have historically punched above their weight thanks to the rigorous education system they benefited from. Yet in just 15 years, the SNP Government has managed to destroy that legacy, which the First Minister once said was “ingrained in Scottish history” and her own top priority"

[zenfootball2]

Feb 15, 2023 12:54:01 GMT 1 stuttgartershrew said:

Feb 15, 2023 12:30:10 GMT 1 martinshrew said:

Drug deaths, woeful education results, poor NHS, expensive projects like the ferries that doesn't sail costing millions?

All of which were raised in the question and answer session after her resignation speech, one or two in the press weren't slow in pointing out her record (what she said herself she should be judged on).

I do agree with her comments about the pandemic; as I've said more than the once on here, I'm sure it has taken an awful lot out of those who were responsible at the time. I'm sure it took it's toll. That said though, it wasn't that long that she stated that she had plenty left in the tank. So why the change of mind? I'm sure she will try to dress this up as something other than what it is but for me this is what can happen when ideology meets reality. It's not much of a shock this as I suspect some would have us believe.

let us hope Canada have enough sense to get rid of Trudeau next

[Valerioch]

Aside from her obvious dire record as already pointed out above, if you can't explain what a Woman is in one quick sentence, you have no place in a role with any power.

Trashing women's rights over recent weeks was the final nail in her coffin

[armchairfan]

Feb 15, 2023 14:23:51 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

Aside from her obvious dire record as already pointed out above, if you can't explain what a Woman is in one quick sentence, you have no place in a role with any power.

Trashing women's rights over recent weeks was the final nail in her coffin

And THAT, is, I suspect, the straw that broke her political back; watching her writhe around with her woke mental gymnastics was painful to watch, and embarrassing for the saner people of Scotland. Equally true of the Labour Party, though.

[wookeywombat]

If no one hadn't realised it the Tories have this country deep in the do-do's, so I still maintain that she has done a better job than those in power in Westminster. For their much vaunted immigration policy of the last 13 years, I learnt today that there are a quarter of a million asylum seekers who have gone missing and the Home Office can do little to trace them due to increased workloads and the consequential time constraints of investigating each case.

[martinshrew]

Feb 15, 2023 15:30:58 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

If no one hadn't realised it the Tories have this country deep in the do-do's, so I still maintain that she has done a better job than those in power in Westminster. For their much vaunted immigration policy of the last 13 years, I learnt today that there are a quarter of a million asylum seekers who have gone missing and the Home Office can do little to trace them due to increased workloads and the consequential time constraints of investigating each case.

What's any of that got to do with Sturgeon? Think you might be on the wrong thread.

[wookeywombat]

"If no one hadn't realised it the Tories have this country deep in the do-do's, so I still maintain that she has done a better job than those in power in Westminster".

The clue is in the opening sentence.

[martinshrew]

Feb 15, 2023 15:55:07 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

"If no one hadn't realised it the Tories have this country deep in the do-do's, so I still maintain that she has done a better job than those in power in Westminster".

The clue is in the opening sentence.

You then rambled on about asylum seekers; again nothing to do with Sturgeon.

[armchairfan]

This thread is all about Ms Sturgeon, and arguably the SNP too, and not an excuse for whataboutery over the Conservative government.

[staffordshrew]

Feb 15, 2023 15:30:58 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

If no one hadn't realised it the Tories have this country deep in the do-do's, so I still maintain that she has done a better job than those in power in Westminster. For their much vaunted immigration policy of the last 13 years, I learnt today that there are a quarter of a million asylum seekers who have gone missing and the Home Office can do little to trace them due to increased workloads and the consequential time constraints of investigating each case.

Subjective that, she coudn't have done a worse job than our Westminster clowns.  Have either government actually improved things for the people they are supposed to serve? 

[The Clash 1966]

I'd love Scotland to gain independence, they'd be bankrupt in a year.
Could we extend Hadrian's wall to stop them coming back to England???🤔

[armchairfan]

Feb 15, 2023 18:00:20 GMT 1 The Clash 1966 said:

I'd love Scotland to gain independence, they'd be bankrupt in a year.
Could we extend Hadrian's wall to stop them coming back to England???🤔

Sorry, but I don't understand wishing bankruptcy, with all that it could mean, upon anyone; it remains for us to try to overcome the essentially emotional attachment to the concept of independence held by the SNP; it is impracticable and for what - to swap a " distant", detached and deaf Westminster (allegedly) for a much "closer" Brussels?
My lad would ask "are you having a giraffe?"

[block12massive]

Good riddance to the tinpot despot

[The Clash 1966]

Feb 15, 2023 19:35:06 GMT 1 armchairfan said:

Feb 15, 2023 18:00:20 GMT 1 The Clash 1966 said:

I'd love Scotland to gain independence, they'd be bankrupt in a year.
Could we extend Hadrian's wall to stop them coming back to England???🤔

Sorry, but I don't understand wishing bankruptcy, with all that it could mean, upon anyone; it remains for us to try to overcome the essentially emotional attachment to the concept of independence held by the SNP; it is impracticable and for what - to swap a " distant", detached and deaf Westminster (allegedly) for a much "closer" Brussels?
My lad would ask "are you having a giraffe?"

I'm just not a fan of the Scottish, I've yet to meet one who hasn't started slagging off England within minutes of talking to them. If they want independence good luck to them.

[stuttgartershrew]

Feb 15, 2023 14:23:51 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

Aside from her obvious dire record as already pointed out above, if you can't explain what a Woman is in one quick sentence, you have no place in a role with any power.

Trashing women's rights over recent weeks was the final nail in her coffin

Yep. And you could see it coming a mile off...

[armchairfan]

Feb 15, 2023 22:20:05 GMT 1 The Clash 1966 said:

Feb 15, 2023 19:35:06 GMT 1 armchairfan said:

Sorry, but I don't understand wishing bankruptcy, with all that it could mean, upon anyone; it remains for us to try to overcome the essentially emotional attachment to the concept of independence held by the SNP; it is impracticable and for what - to swap a " distant", detached and deaf Westminster (allegedly) for a much "closer" Brussels?
My lad would ask "are you having a giraffe?"

I'm just not a fan of the Scottish, I've yet to meet one who hasn't started slagging off England within minutes of talking to them. If they want independence good luck to them.

You can only speak as you find, of course, but you have been most unfortunate: I was in Scotland last year, and found no such attitudes.
Many years ago, as well, a mate and I went up to Glasgow for the Scottish Cup Final, and aside from the good-natured banter about the qualities of the English and Scottish leagues (and Scottish goalkeepers lol) the Aberdeen guys helped us avoid the thuggish behaviour of Celtic fans....and neither are all Celtic fans thugs!

[wookeywombat]

theferret.scot/fact-check-snp-party-political-broadcast/

That's not to mention no hospital parking charges unless you live in Dundee

[sheltonsalopian]

Everyone pointing our her failings seem to be forgetting her approval rating after 9 years as first minister is only -2. Those are extraordinary numbers for any politician.

I'm not her biggest fan as I think independence is fools gold, but there's no doubting her popularity north of the border.

[martinshrew]

Feb 16, 2023 13:25:19 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

Everyone pointing our her failings seem to be forgetting her approval rating after 9 years as first minister is only -2. Those are extraordinary numbers for any politician.

I'm not her biggest fan as I think independence is fools gold, but there's no doubting her popularity north of the border.

42% in a recent survey wanted her gone.

[kenwood]

Feb 16, 2023 15:36:28 GMT 1 martinshrew said:

Feb 16, 2023 13:25:19 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

Everyone pointing our her failings seem to be forgetting her approval rating after 9 years as first minister is only -2. Those are extraordinary numbers for any politician.

I'm not her biggest fan as I think independence is fools gold, but there's no doubting her popularity north of the border.

42% in a recent survey wanted her gone.

Sturgeon giving up as she’s run her course etc , etc ,
Dont think so somehow .
Lets just sit back and watch what happens shall we.

[stuttgartershrew]

Feb 16, 2023 13:25:19 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

Everyone pointing our her failings seem to be forgetting her approval rating after 9 years as first minister is only -2. Those are extraordinary numbers for any politician.

I'm not her biggest fan as I think independence is fools gold, but there's no doubting her popularity north of the border.

I suspect she owes a fair amount of that popularity to the independence movement though (with many happy to turn a blind eye to the failures because they see independence as the answer to all their woes). So she would have benefited from that. However, I'd say its very much a double edged sword. As whilst the question of independence has provided support and numbers that most politicians would be delighted with, that she has been unable to see more than half of the Scottish electorate vote SNP or for independence (with polls suggested they're still not close to doing so) is ultimately yet another failure. I mean when it's pretty much the SNP's mission, why it was founded, its reason for existing, then that is how you are going to be judged.

As she admitted in the Q&A session after her resignation speech, she is fully aware that she divides opinion in Scotland. She conceded that as a polarizing figure it would be near on impossible for her to attract voters to get that 50%.

So you are right, there is no doubting her popularity north of the border. But no doubting her unpopularity too. And when you need more than half the electorate on board to see what I am sure she would ultimately deem success, then being popular to one half of the population but quite the opposite to the other is of no help at all.

[zenfootball2]

Feb 15, 2023 14:23:51 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

Aside from her obvious dire record as already pointed out above, if you can't explain what a Woman is in one quick sentence, you have no place in a role with any power.

Trashing women's rights over recent weeks was the final nail in her coffin

im a labour supporter and Starmer was unable to give an answer either, which for a barrister is rather disapointing.

[zenfootball2]

Feb 16, 2023 17:29:44 GMT 1 stuttgartershrew said:

Feb 16, 2023 13:25:19 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

Everyone pointing our her failings seem to be forgetting her approval rating after 9 years as first minister is only -2. Those are extraordinary numbers for any politician.

I'm not her biggest fan as I think independence is fools gold, but there's no doubting her popularity north of the border.

I suspect she owes a fair amount of that popularity to the independence movement though (with many happy to turn a blind eye to the failures because they see independence as the answer to all their woes). So she would have benefited from that. However, I'd say its very much a double edged sword. As whilst the question of independence has provided support and numbers that most politicians would be delighted with, that she has been unable to see more than half of the Scottish electorate vote SNP or for independence (with polls suggested they're still not close to doing so) is ultimately yet another failure. I mean when it's pretty much the SNP's mission, why it was founded, its reason for existing, then that is how you are going to be judged.

As she admitted in the Q&A session after her resignation speech, she is fully aware that she divides opinion in Scotland. She conceded that as a polarizing figure it would be near on impossible for her to attract voters to get that 50%.

So you are right, there is no doubting her popularity north of the border. But no doubting her unpopularity too. And when you need more than half the electorate on board to see what I am sure she would ultimately deem success, then being popular to one half of the population but quite the opposite to the other is of no help at all.

Strugeon has also benfited from a scottish press who have not held her to account for numerous issues, in the end it took an ITV reporter to hold her to account an experience she was clearly struggling to answer an questions. i really dont like her but she was a sharp operator had managed to hold her popularity and win all her elections which is some record.