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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Dec 31, 2022 18:12:53 GMT 1
They closed some A&Es. I think the idea is Telford would close and become a minor injuries. I suppose that puts more pressure on the A&Es that are left.
More Minor Injuries centres are a good thing, but it’s how we educate the public to us them. I can’t understand why you’d choose an A&E over an MIU, provided it’s not something serious of course. I’ve been seen at our Bridgnorth one twice, both times recommended to go to A&E by my GP practice on the phone. Knew i didn’t need A&E, in and out of MIU in 45 minutes and the staff there couldn’t believe the GP had said A&E…Again, it’s the system that’s the issue Staffing may be a problem, Altrincham has a new MIU which has never opened because they can’t get the staff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2022 18:29:11 GMT 1
More Minor Injuries centres are a good thing, but it’s how we educate the public to us them. I can’t understand why you’d choose an A&E over an MIU, provided it’s not something serious of course. I’ve been seen at our Bridgnorth one twice, both times recommended to go to A&E by my GP practice on the phone. Knew i didn’t need A&E, in and out of MIU in 45 minutes and the staff there couldn’t believe the GP had said A&E…Again, it’s the system that’s the issue Staffing may be a problem, Altrincham has a new MIU which has never opened because they can’t get the staff. That’s a shame. It’s the same when I hear politicians saying about more beds needed. If you can’t staff the beds then it makes no difference
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The NHS
Dec 31, 2022 18:33:40 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 31, 2022 18:33:40 GMT 1
Staffing may be a problem, Altrincham has a new MIU which has never opened because they can’t get the staff. That’s a shame. It’s the same when I hear politicians saying about more beds needed. If you can’t staff the beds then it makes no difference Don't all new nurses have to have a degree, same with the fuzz? Is that really the be all and end all of being able to do the job?
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Post by The Clash 1966 on Dec 31, 2022 22:10:25 GMT 1
Over the last two years our grandson who had his 2nd birthday this week has had his life saved on several occasions by the wonderful staff at Russells Hall hospital in Dudley. The whole family got Covid in the week that he was born, his dad was on steroids and inhalers and his blood/oxygen levels were dangerously low. Grandson has been in at least 5 times on blue lights.
A couple of months ago the wives first mother in law felt ill and managed to see a locum at her GP surgery. The locum didn't know her and just put her lack of energy down to being elderly. If she had seen her regular GP he would have picked up that something was wrong, as she was very active for her age, and would have probably done a few tests. As it is she felt sicker and sicker throughout the week and when she eventually realised that she needed to call us it was too late, she was already dying. Having said that the 999 call handler was excellent and had the rapid response paramedic with us within 5 minutes and a full crew ambulance less than 5 minutes behind. The care she was given at RSH was excellent as well, both in A&E and on the ward. The nursing staff couldn't do enough for us as a family.
There is no quick fix for the NHS, no matter what anyone tries to say. Labour can't fix it over night and the Tories don't appear to want to fix it. The one decent idea that Johnson had while he was in office was to try to fix the care system, but his successors seem to have kicked that idea into the long grass. Until there are beds available for recovering patients to move to in either local community hospitals, care homes, residential homes or even their own homes with adequate support there are going to be thousands of beds in acute wards that aren't being made available to the patients that need them. That leads to backlogs in A&E and ambulance staff being tied up for hours on end on handovers that aren't then available to respond to other emergencies.
Thankfully we haven't had any major incidents in Shropshire recently, but if 90-95% ambulances allocated to the country on any given day are waiting to hand over their patients to the A&Es any major incident is likely to turn into a disaster.
I hope your grandson stays fit and well.if anything like that happened to my little man I'd be a basket case.
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The NHS
Jan 1, 2023 3:31:19 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by belfastshrew on Jan 1, 2023 3:31:19 GMT 1
I went to a private hospital in Holland a few weeks back. What an eye-opener. I wanted to take pictures. Clean, modern, big xmas trees and wreaths everywhere, bloke playing piano, giant indoor fish ponds and water features, gift shop, restaurant, a giant nativity scene, comfy seating, no crowds, happy faces everywhere.
Unreal. It felt more like a posh hotel. I would happily pay for health insurance to be seen in a place like that rather than fund a institutionally dying NHS through national insurance. The NHS was founded to get the post-WW2 sick back to work, nowadays its just full of poor old folks who the nursing homes dont want. Privatise, or disband!
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 1, 2023 19:48:59 GMT 1
And what do those in Holland do, who can’t pay for a private hospital?
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Post by darkshrew on Jan 1, 2023 20:01:45 GMT 1
And what do those in Holland do, who can’t pay for a private hospital? In the principal European countries (Holland included) they have excellent state run hospitals which combine with a much better developed private system. Generally their governments spend more on healthcare (average of 11% of GDP across the whole EU compared to our 8%), and make the provision of private care far easier for both providers and punters. Having lived in three EU countries I can hand on heart say that I prefer each of their (different) systems compared to the UK. Agree completely with the comments above - this should not be political. Labour introduced working with the private sector in a way that failed to understand how the private sector works; the Tories are into smoke and mirrors pretending that the NHS is not past crisis point and are desperate to avoid linking staff vacancies with Brexit. Something needs to change - the NHS is not a political football, it is something that needs a long term vision.
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Post by BlueTone on Jan 1, 2023 20:14:27 GMT 1
I spent just a day in hospital after a minor stroke in July this year. 15hours on a trolley in a corridor being monitored the whole time by ambulance staff. A quick examination by a junior doctor towards the end of the day and I was discharged even tho I couldnt walk. I was given an outpatients appointment at the stroke clinic a fortnight later. During my time in hospital however I was never bored because I was in equal measures appalled and frightened at what was going on around me. At the stroke clinic I was put on blood thinners. When I asked the doctor if I would be on these for life he replied "See how you feel". Phoned my doctors to make appointment so that I could discuss the symptoms I had been left with and I was given a telephone appointment three weeks later. A quick summing up. Do your best not to be ill until the modern day challenges have been met. I dont know what the times were called before the dark ages but I would say that is where the NHS is today. Similar scenario to myself. In 2010 I had a TIA (mini stroke) when shopping with my wife in Northwich. She flagged down a police car, who had an ambulance at the scene in a few minutes, as fortunately Northwich was then one of the main ambulance centres for the County. I was quickly taken to Leighton Hospital, where because it was a Saturday they had to call someone in to conduct a scan. I was then left overnight on a trolley, and it was only thanks to the persistence of my wife that I was finally allocated a bed on the stroke ward. In the meantime, I had lost my power of speech, and tried to get it back by attempting to pronounce the names of beers! I started with 'Spitfire' and progressed to 'Bombardier'. Within 24 hours I'd got my speech back. Other than my loss of speech, I suffered no further after effects of the TIA. However, being in a stroke ward is a very frightening experience, as I saw 1st hand what effects a full stroke can have on otherwise healthy individuals. I'm also now on never ending blood thinners! After a TIA in February I am also on blood thinners (apixaban). Feel the cold though! Given the chaos in A&E my treatment efficient and caring.
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Post by servernaside on Jan 2, 2023 14:01:35 GMT 1
Despite all the public criticism and constant media talk of the NHS in crisis, I can only report my own personal experience. About 9 months ago I was diagnosed with a non-life threatening condition which does however require observation and some medication. In all that time, I can only say that I have received excellent treatment, face to face consultations with both my GP and consultants at two different hospitals have been easily and promptly organised and the staff have been first class. That's good to hear, just the way it should be, every time. Good to hear you are doing ok too. Sometimes it just seems that the human body has evolved a little too far and is susceptable to breakdown. Hopefully science will triumph.
Stay healthy in 2023.
That you and a Happy New Year to you.
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Post by davycrockett on Jan 2, 2023 14:30:05 GMT 1
redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=1258782&u=https%3A//www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/02/senior-uk-health-official-warns-of-unsafe-and-undignified-care-caused-by-a-and-e-delaysI’ve shared this off the NHS thread in politics because this in my view is the major problem that hasn’t been addressed for years. Now with backs against the wall nearly half the excess deaths since Covid may have been due to initial failings in Emergency care. Briefly I was suddenly taken very I’ll after an uncomfortable night with belly ache. By 10.30 I was in agony with what turned out to be a ruptured appendix. Dialled 999 and after 2 call backs decided to take myself to casualty which I advised the paramedic on the phone. His response was probably the best thing to do as it could be 6/8 hours as I wasn’t considered at risk even though they didn’t know what was wrong. 3 hours to get through A&E but only that quick because after a change of shift the incoming ‘senior nurse’ immediately realised I wasn’t well and sent me for a scan. 5 hours since dialling 999 but in fairness everything else went well. Immediate ambulance to Shrewsbury to a waiting bed in the immediate care unit and surgery that evening. The treatment ONCE diagnosed was great (except I caught COVID) but if I’d waited for an ambulance who knows?
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2023 18:55:29 GMT 1
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 2, 2023 20:54:01 GMT 1
It’s getting to the point where people are seriously scared of getting ill and requiring A&E.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 3, 2023 16:41:55 GMT 1
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Post by ProudSalopian on Jan 3, 2023 16:45:04 GMT 1
Remember when the public were asked to protect the health service, maybe it's just me but I would prefer it if the health service could get back to protecting the general public.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 3, 2023 18:41:23 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jan 3, 2023 19:10:52 GMT 1
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jan 3, 2023 20:02:21 GMT 1
It’s absolutely shameful. These NHS emergencies are becoming more and more frequent and more and more serious. And the Government and NHS pointing fingers at each other doesn’t help, they’re playing with peoples lives.
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Post by suttonshrew on Jan 3, 2023 20:05:23 GMT 1
MPs are told criticism of the NHS model is political suicide which is why so few are willing to stand up and offer alternatives.
We plough £180b into the NHS every year and it’s broken! Simple as that. Social care equates for 97% of the entire council budget which is why everything else is suffering.
Until changes are made and we move to some sort of hybrid system then things won’t change but it will take a party to potentially destroy their future chances of election in proposing these changes even if the others believe it’s the right thing to do.
I agree a royal commission and cross bench collaboration is needed, this is bigger then Red, Blue or yellow (oh and green)
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Post by northwestman on Jan 3, 2023 20:14:01 GMT 1
How much worse must the NHS get before our politicians do something beyond platitudinous hand-wringing? Astonishingly, MPs of all parties still appear to believe that the answer to the unfolding disaster is more taxpayers’ cash, as if that has not been tested to destruction.
The NHS has more money than ever; indeed, it is now funded as well as most other European countries’ health services yet consistently produces among the worst outcomes. There are 15 per cent more junior doctors, 9 per cent more consultants and 8 per cent more nurses than before the pandemic hit in March 2020. There are fewer GPs, as an exodus of family doctors continues. But the constant refrain that staff cuts are to blame for the crisis is simply not true.
Doubtless, hospitals would like more doctors, consultants and nurses, but there is not an infinite supply and they could operate better rostering systems to ensure weekends and holidays are properly staffed. What we lack most are beds. This is not a function of money but of systems and structures, a monumental nationalised industry unable to adapt to modern pressures because our politicians remain ideologically bound to a set of principles laid down in 1948.
Those who still cleave to the idea that the NHS is “the envy of the world” need to explain why no other country has copied it.
The system is failing at the most basic level. More than 500 people a week are thought to be dying because they are not being seen quickly enough since ambulances take hours to get to them. A&E departments are overwhelmed and 12,000 beds are taken up by older people who should be in care or looked after by their families. Thousands more will die early because their illnesses, notably cancers, were not diagnosed when the NHS virtually shut down for all non-Covid cases during the pandemic. More than seven million are waiting either to be seen by a consultant or for an operation.
The NHS is not only in the biggest crisis of its 75 years, it is clearly not going to last in its current form; so it is time our politicians got together and planned something to replace it.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 3, 2023 20:16:58 GMT 1
George Osbourne, one of many bugger it up then bugger off merchants....
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 3, 2023 21:54:18 GMT 1
Steven Barclay still blaming COVID for crisis in NHS. Undoubtedly it was a factor, but they must think the public are stupid if they can’t see the deliberate attempt to escape responsibility.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 4, 2023 12:10:01 GMT 1
And what do those in Holland do, who can’t pay for a private hospital? In the principal European countries (Holland included) they have excellent state run hospitals which combine with a much better developed private system. Generally their governments spend more on healthcare (average of 11% of GDP across the whole EU compared to our 8%), and make the provision of private care far easier for both providers and punters. Having lived in three EU countries I can hand on heart say that I prefer each of their (different) systems compared to the UK. Agree completely with the comments above - this should not be political. Labour introduced working with the private sector in a way that failed to understand how the private sector works; the Tories are into smoke and mirrors pretending that the NHS is not past crisis point and are desperate to avoid linking staff vacancies with Brexit. Something needs to change - the NHS is not a political football, it is something that needs a long term vision. I don't know the ins and the outs of it but we have both private and public health insurance and provision here in Germany and it remains universal. The trouble I see with the UK is that so many people seem unable to accept that the current model may no longer be fit for purpose and they seem unable to accept that there are other models available that could be adopted that still mean health care remains universal. Whenever there is talk of private health provision for example, you get the exact same response as the one you replied to here. It's as people think its all or nothing, that its either public health provision or its every man for themselves, that there isn't an option to incorporate both public and private health care (which seems to work well elsewhere in the world). It's weird. And with that in mind, its a brave politician who will stick their head above the parapet and suggest anything because they know it will be used against them politically (even if it meant much needed changes could be brought about). Unfortunately the NHS is used as a political football as you say, much to it detriment.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 4, 2023 12:34:16 GMT 1
Maybe in a manifesto, long term plans could be presenred for changes to the NHS. But that doesn't mean work is not required right now to sort out the current crisis. But, as with so many other things, this government sits on it's hands.
Steve Barclay's assertion that it's down to Covid simply means that the NHS has still not been made ready to cope with epidemics or pandemics, even after the wake up call the original Covid pandemic gave us.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 7, 2023 17:08:04 GMT 1
I see that Labour propose making GPs salaried and employed by NHS rather than current system of contracting with them as self-employed contractors. I would be massively in favour of this, though BMA likely to oppose. Most GPs don’t actually want the hassle of managing their surgeries these days and prefer being salaried, and would allow NHS greater control over what GPs can do and how they do it.
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Post by darkshrew on Jan 10, 2023 14:28:11 GMT 1
The government is really getting itself into a pickle with nurses pay - I don’t think you can find anyone with any integrity who will look at the work the nurses are asked to do and conclude that they are fairly paid.
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Post by ProudSalopian on Jan 11, 2023 10:48:10 GMT 1
Like a lot of things in life, we like to blame the authorities but we need to look at ourselves too. Yes of course we should be asking serious questions of our politicians and the people that run the NHS, but we aren't entirely blameless of the pressures the NHS are under. During covid we regularly were fed the 'protect the NHS' line and anyone who challenged this was shot down and heaven forbid anyone who chose not to get vaccinated as they were labelled selfish and a drain on the NHS. However, this week I've read an article (from last month) that says 7 in 10 men are overweight or obese, how much strain do you think that will cause the NHS as it will lead to so many health problems. We can all complain about lack of funding, lack of nurses, lack of beds, etc. however the NHS will be put under an even bigger strain because of individuals lifestyle choices. Yes I know in the world we live in today we aren't allowed to blame people, but the more unhealthy lifestyles we have, the more the NHS is used and the more it will crack, it's not rocket science. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11544133/Nearly-seven-ten-men-overweight-obese-58-cent-1993-survey-reveals.html
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 11, 2023 10:54:28 GMT 1
Like a lot of things in life, we like to blame the authorities but we need to look at ourselves too. Yes of course we should be asking serious questions of our politicians and the people that run the NHS, but we aren't entirely blameless of the pressures the NHS are under. During covid we regularly were fed the 'protect the NHS' line and anyone who challenged this was shot down and heaven forbid anyone who chose not to get vaccinated as they were labelled selfish and a drain on the NHS. However, this week I've read an article (from last month) that says 7 in 10 men are overweight or obese, how much strain do you think that will cause the NHS as it will lead to so many health problems. We can all complain about lack of funding, lack of nurses, lack of beds, etc. however the NHS will be put under an even bigger strain because of individuals lifestyle choices. Yes I know in the world we live in today we aren't allowed to blame people, but the more unhealthy lifestyles we have, the more the NHS is used and the more it will crack, it's not rocket science. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11544133/Nearly-seven-ten-men-overweight-obese-58-cent-1993-survey-reveals.htmlVery good post One factor (of many) why we had so many Covid related deaths was due to the fact we are, on average, a fat and unhealthy nation - I can speak for myself in the my fitness isn't where I want it
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Post by ProudSalopian on Jan 11, 2023 10:57:50 GMT 1
In the principal European countries (Holland included) they have excellent state run hospitals which combine with a much better developed private system. Generally their governments spend more on healthcare (average of 11% of GDP across the whole EU compared to our 8%), and make the provision of private care far easier for both providers and punters. Having lived in three EU countries I can hand on heart say that I prefer each of their (different) systems compared to the UK. Agree completely with the comments above - this should not be political. Labour introduced working with the private sector in a way that failed to understand how the private sector works; the Tories are into smoke and mirrors pretending that the NHS is not past crisis point and are desperate to avoid linking staff vacancies with Brexit. Something needs to change - the NHS is not a political football, it is something that needs a long term vision. I don't know the ins and the outs of it but we have both private and public health insurance and provision here in Germany and it remains universal. The trouble I see with the UK is that so many people seem unable to accept that the current model may no longer be fit for purpose and they seem unable to accept that there are other models available that could be adopted that still mean health care remains universal. Whenever there is talk of private health provision for example, you get the exact same response as the one you replied to here. It's as people think its all or nothing, that its either public health provision or its every man for themselves, that there isn't an option to incorporate both public and private health care (which seems to work well elsewhere in the world). It's weird. And with that in mind, its a brave politician who will stick their head above the parapet and suggest anything because they know it will be used against them politically (even if it meant much needed changes could be brought about). Unfortunately the NHS is used as a political football as you say, much to it detriment. I saw an interesting debate the other day, a MP was being criticised because he had suggested an insurance based model and people were jumping to conclusions that he meant the same model as the USA where we of course have been heard some horrendous stories. But people pointed out that the choice isn't just between the NHS and the USA, there are other models out there. And to probably emphasise your point, someone reminded people that Germany is often lauded as a fantastic service and puts us to shame, yet its insurance based, something that many people in this country detest the idea of.
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The NHS
Jan 12, 2023 0:06:14 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 0:06:14 GMT 1
I don't know the ins and the outs of it but we have both private and public health insurance and provision here in Germany and it remains universal. The trouble I see with the UK is that so many people seem unable to accept that the current model may no longer be fit for purpose and they seem unable to accept that there are other models available that could be adopted that still mean health care remains universal. Whenever there is talk of private health provision for example, you get the exact same response as the one you replied to here. It's as people think its all or nothing, that its either public health provision or its every man for themselves, that there isn't an option to incorporate both public and private health care (which seems to work well elsewhere in the world). It's weird. And with that in mind, its a brave politician who will stick their head above the parapet and suggest anything because they know it will be used against them politically (even if it meant much needed changes could be brought about). Unfortunately the NHS is used as a political football as you say, much to it detriment. I saw an interesting debate the other day, a MP was being criticised because he had suggested an insurance based model and people were jumping to conclusions that he meant the same model as the USA where we of course have been heard some horrendous stories. But people pointed out that the choice isn't just between the NHS and the USA, there are other models out there. And to probably emphasise your point, someone reminded people that Germany is often lauded as a fantastic service and puts us to shame, yet its insurance based, something that many people in this country detest the idea of. Personal Health Budgets - Already being rolled out in the U.K.
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Post by neilsalop on Jan 12, 2023 7:52:00 GMT 1
Like a lot of things in life, we like to blame the authorities but we need to look at ourselves too. Yes of course we should be asking serious questions of our politicians and the people that run the NHS, but we aren't entirely blameless of the pressures the NHS are under. During covid we regularly were fed the 'protect the NHS' line and anyone who challenged this was shot down and heaven forbid anyone who chose not to get vaccinated as they were labelled selfish and a drain on the NHS. However, this week I've read an article (from last month) that says 7 in 10 men are overweight or obese, how much strain do you think that will cause the NHS as it will lead to so many health problems. We can all complain about lack of funding, lack of nurses, lack of beds, etc. however the NHS will be put under an even bigger strain because of individuals lifestyle choices. Yes I know in the world we live in today we aren't allowed to blame people, but the more unhealthy lifestyles we have, the more the NHS is used and the more it will crack, it's not rocket science. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11544133/Nearly-seven-ten-men-overweight-obese-58-cent-1993-survey-reveals.htmlVery good post One factor (of many) why we had so many Covid related deaths was due to the fact we are, on average, a fat and unhealthy nation - I can speak for myself in the my fitness isn't where I want it Both very good points. I myself am a smoker of over 40 years and about half a stone overweight, so at some stage there is a good chance that I will need the NHS. Hopefully not for a good few years.
Most people try to not be a burden on the NHS and only visit their GP when they really need to, but others will turn up at A&E for slightest ailment. It a bit like the welfare state, most see it as safety net, while a tiny minority see it as a hammock. The issue is that the media always find the ink to whine about the (very) few abusing or taking advantage of the systems, while ignoring the (vast) majority that do their utmost to avoid putting those systems under any sort of pressure.
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