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Post by DiglisShrew on Jul 17, 2022 14:09:28 GMT 1
Fail to see why the intimate pros and cons of conservative party leadership are being played out so fully in the media and also on this thread, when none of us - excluding party members - a mere 200,000 people, will be making the decision. Because they are choosing my next Prime Minister and that’s scary !! |
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jul 17, 2022 14:59:15 GMT 1
Indeed. From day one I had hoped Ben Wallace would have put his name in the ring, but sadly it was not to be. Yes, I did wonder on a previous post whether Ben Wallace regrets his decision not to stand. I thought he would be decent and it would have been good to have had the opportunity to see where he stands on certain issues . I don’t appreciate the likes of Frost rubbishing Mordaunt and I can’t help but think , well, his wife works for Truss and it’s only to be expected. Sunak remains the big favourite with the parliamentary party , lots of support and he doesn’t seem to be tarnished by his close relationship with Johnson . Truss for me just doesn’t do it . I’m sure Starmer would love to face her across the dispatch box,but as someone who we are looking to to run the Country in effect , forget it. Badenoch is growing on me and I can’t really put my finger on why. Perhaps it’s because she comes across cool and calm , confident and in control . All these certainly and I can see her giving Starmer a run for his money . But is she on top of the big issues ? Anyway, I like her and Tom T . With Tom it’s his lack of experience that goes against him but I do like him. Putting aside my Labour hat and thinking who would be good for the Country it’s a close run thing between Sunak and Badenoch. Sticking my neck out , Badenoch for me . There you have it . Also don't support the Tories But regarding Tom T - he has been chairing the foreign affairs select committee for the last few years and is certainly up to speed with that, having been very critical of Putin, the russian investment into this country (what happened to the report boris?!) and the withdrawal from Afghanistan. That seems more relevant to me than some of the other's running who apparently have experience |
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Post by kenwood on Jul 17, 2022 15:36:37 GMT 1
Yes, I did wonder on a previous post whether Ben Wallace regrets his decision not to stand. I thought he would be decent and it would have been good to have had the opportunity to see where he stands on certain issues . I don’t appreciate the likes of Frost rubbishing Mordaunt and I can’t help but think , well, his wife works for Truss and it’s only to be expected. Sunak remains the big favourite with the parliamentary party , lots of support and he doesn’t seem to be tarnished by his close relationship with Johnson . Truss for me just doesn’t do it . I’m sure Starmer would love to face her across the dispatch box,but as someone who we are looking to to run the Country in effect , forget it. Badenoch is growing on me and I can’t really put my finger on why. Perhaps it’s because she comes across cool and calm , confident and in control . All these certainly and I can see her giving Starmer a run for his money . But is she on top of the big issues ? Anyway, I like her and Tom T . With Tom it’s his lack of experience that goes against him but I do like him. Putting aside my Labour hat and thinking who would be good for the Country it’s a close run thing between Sunak and Badenoch. Sticking my neck out , Badenoch for me . There you have it . Also don't support the Tories But regarding Tom T - he has been chairing the foreign affairs select committee for the last few years and is certainly up to speed with that, having been very critical of Putin, the russian investment into this country (what happened to the report boris?!) and the withdrawal from Afghanistan. That seems more relevant to me than some of the other's running who apparently have experience Yes , good point . I truly believe Johnson has tarnished the position of Prime Minister . He has constantly lied ; the report into Russian investment in this Country and his meeting(s) with Lebedev need to be out in the public domain. Because of his performances , disgraceful as they are , the electorate have become very wary of their politicians from all parties. I find this very sad because there are some really decent people within parliament who, unfortunately , are seen as untrustworthy . I am staunch Labour , true , but even I want a government who can bring this Country out of the mire into which it finds itself thanks to Johnson . The best thing ever that he’s been found out . Sure I would like a Labour Government but firstly please let’s clear the decks . Mordaunt , Badenoch and Tugendhat gives me some hope and I never thought I’d be saying that. I cannot understand severnaside’s comment. Of course the likes of myself won’t be making a decision but it doesn’t mean I/ we cannot enter into a discussion on who best is to become our PM . A very narrow minded view if I may say so and I do enjoy reading others posts on the matter , it’s interesting, to me anyway , and also informative on subject which will effect all our lives . Looking forward to tonight’s “ grilling “ . By the end I may have changed my mind . I promise to let you know😉👍 |
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Post by shrewder on Jul 17, 2022 15:51:07 GMT 1
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Post by kenwood on Jul 17, 2022 19:58:43 GMT 1
Well, they’ve been and gone.
What do people think now after the latest tv battle?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2022 20:14:39 GMT 1
Well, they’ve been and gone. What do people think now after the latest tv battle? Watching Sunak and Truss tearing lumps out of each other was entertaining if not exactly confidence-inspiring of potential future prime ministers. I think Sunak is the most ready to immediately become prime minister and I’m starting to think he might be the least worst option. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 17, 2022 20:20:46 GMT 1
Well, they’ve been and gone. What do people think now after the latest tv battle? Watching Sunak and Truss tearing lumps out of each other was entertaining if not exactly confidence-inspiring of potential future prime ministers. I think Sunak is the most ready to immediately become prime minister and I’m starting to think he might be the least worst option. These Tory leader elections sometimes throw up a surprise. Would be hilarious if Truss and Sunak knocked each other out and two slighty less tainted by their association with Boris got through. |
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 17, 2022 20:46:20 GMT 1
Yes neither Truss or Sunak for me. Far too tainted by association. I could see through Boris so why couldn’t they - because it suited them.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 17, 2022 21:02:56 GMT 1
Yes neither Truss or Sunak for me. Far too tainted by association. I could see through Boris so why couldn’t they - because it suited them. i agree but the same applys to the entire cabinet |
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Post by edgmond on Jul 17, 2022 21:28:47 GMT 1
I truly believe Johnson has tarnished the position of Prime Minister . He has constantly lied ; the report into Russian investment in this Country and his meeting(s) with Lebedev need to be out in the public domain. Because of his performances , disgraceful as they are , the electorate have become very wary of their politicians from all parties. I find this very sad because there are some really decent people within parliament who, unfortunately , are seen as untrustworthy . I am staunch Labour , true , but even I want a government who can bring this Country out of the mire into which it finds itself thanks to Johnson . The best thing ever that he’s been found out . Sure I would like a Labour Government but firstly please let’s clear the decks . Mordaunt , Badenoch and Tugendhat gives me some hope and I never thought I’d be saying that. I cannot understand severnaside’s comment. Of course the likes of myself won’t be making a decision but it doesn’t mean I/ we cannot enter into a discussion on who best is to become our PM . A very narrow minded view if I may say so and I do enjoy reading others posts on the matter , it’s interesting, to me anyway , and also informative on subject which will effect all our lives . Looking forward to tonight’s “ grilling “ . By the end I may have changed my mind . I promise to let you know😉👍 Good points made. Of course, there has been a relentless campaign by the populist media and its heroes (Farage and Trump to name two) over the last few years to smear politicians, claim they are all ‘in it for themselves’ and ‘don’t understand what the real British people want’. As you say, this is far from true for the majority of decent, hardworking MPs of all parties. Unfortunately, the Johnson circus (and all his apologists) has only fuelled this dangerous campaign which threatens democracy just as much as Putin, if not more so. Just look at what so nearly happened in Washington. Let’s hope that whoever takes over as PM can start to restore people’s trust in the democratic process. |
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Post by horse01 on Jul 17, 2022 21:32:33 GMT 1
Anyone but Truss on that showing!!
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Post by darkshrew on Jul 17, 2022 21:34:36 GMT 1
More difficult to call this one and I hate to say it but the detestable Liz Truss did ok:
1. Sunak
2. Truss
3. Mordaunt
4. Badenoch
5. Tugendhat
Sunak came across as the only one capable to do the job, Mordaunt the most normal (but do people really want that and she clearly has the dagger out for some of her colleagues when this is over which contradicts her "reasonable" persona), Badenoch came across as being too junior and prone to stretching the truth when attacking Sunak and Mordaunt, Tugendhat was lost. Truss is awful and clearly being directed every step of the way - sadly I think that she has it in the bag now.
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Post by kenwood on Jul 17, 2022 22:27:47 GMT 1
Here’s my list after tonight’s showing .
Sunak looks out in front , on top of his brief and handled everything chucked at him well .
I thought Badenoch did well but the rest didn’t show anything . Disappointed in Tom and I think he will go next . Also thought Mordaunt seemed a bit lost to be honest . Lots of things latitudes and no real substance , sorry but not impressed this time around .
Truss is Truss who bangs on about her “delivering “ whilst distancing herself from Sunak and the rest of the cabinet .
All the poor decisions during the pandemic which Sunak introduced was nothing to do with her .
She is poor in my view .
Anyway , that’s my view , let’s see what happens .
Interesting none of them would haven Johnson in their cabinet!
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 17, 2022 22:31:07 GMT 1
Well the last bloke who said he would soon got voted out!
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blueboy48
Midland League Division Two
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Post by blueboy48 on Jul 17, 2022 23:23:59 GMT 1
I think Liz Truss is a very capable minister and has " delivered" as she reminds us. However, she's not a natural speaker and pmq's could be embarrassing, even against Starmer who also is a bit wooden.
Mourdant looks the part and I do like Badenoch. Tom T's main selling point is that he is untainted by anything he's done, which at the top level, is not very much.
Sunak and Truss are the only two with real experience but Sunak comes across much better in debate.
Ability alone in politics at any level is never enough.
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 17, 2022 23:47:20 GMT 1
I'm at the point where it's anyone bar Truss now.
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Post by MartinB on Jul 18, 2022 7:23:56 GMT 1
I think Liz Truss is a very capable minister and has " delivered" as she reminds us. However, she's not a natural speaker and pmq's could be embarrassing, even against Starmer who also is a bit wooden. Mourdant looks the part and I do like Badenoch. Tom T's main selling point is that he is untainted by anything he's done, which at the top level, is not very much. Sunak and Truss are the only two with real experience but Sunak comes across much better in debate. Ability alone in politics at any level is never enough. Truss delivered a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand that she was warned would damage the UK economy and UK farming. Is that the sort of delivery you think is a positive? |
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Post by shropshirelad42 on Jul 18, 2022 7:42:50 GMT 1
Probably Sunak for me, and I think Badanoch should get a top job whoever wins it.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 18, 2022 8:18:23 GMT 1
I truly believe Johnson has tarnished the position of Prime Minister . He has constantly lied ; the report into Russian investment in this Country and his meeting(s) with Lebedev need to be out in the public domain. Because of his performances , disgraceful as they are , the electorate have become very wary of their politicians from all parties. I find this very sad because there are some really decent people within parliament who, unfortunately , are seen as untrustworthy . I am staunch Labour , true , but even I want a government who can bring this Country out of the mire into which it finds itself thanks to Johnson . The best thing ever that he’s been found out . Sure I would like a Labour Government but firstly please let’s clear the decks . Mordaunt , Badenoch and Tugendhat gives me some hope and I never thought I’d be saying that. I cannot understand severnaside’s comment. Of course the likes of myself won’t be making a decision but it doesn’t mean I/ we cannot enter into a discussion on who best is to become our PM . A very narrow minded view if I may say so and I do enjoy reading others posts on the matter , it’s interesting, to me anyway , and also informative on subject which will effect all our lives . Looking forward to tonight’s “ grilling “ . By the end I may have changed my mind . I promise to let you know😉👍 Good points made. Of course, there has been a relentless campaign by the populist media and its heroes (Farage and Trump to name two) over the last few years to smear politicians, claim they are all ‘in it for themselves’ and ‘don’t understand what the real British people want’. As you say, this is far from true for the majority of decent, hardworking MPs of all parties. Unfortunately, the Johnson circus (and all his apologists) has only fuelled this dangerous campaign which threatens democracy just as much as Putin, if not more so. Just look at what so nearly happened in Washington. Let’s hope that whoever takes over as PM can start to restore people’s trust in the democratic process.  they have a big job on there hands to restore trust |
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 18, 2022 8:22:30 GMT 1
I think that’s why it should be no one who has been in the cabinet.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 18, 2022 8:59:39 GMT 1
I think that’s why it should be no one who has been in the cabinet. i agree for me they are all tainted |
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Post by block12massive on Jul 18, 2022 9:13:19 GMT 1
I think that’s why it should be no one who has been in the cabinet.
If you have held cabinet positions then you are part of the failed establishment.
If you've never held a cabinet position then you lack the experience.It really depends on which horse the media are backing as to which of these arguments get perpetuated. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2022 9:40:44 GMT 1
I think that’s why it should be no one who has been in the cabinet.
If you have held cabinet positions then you are part of the failed establishment.
If you've never held a cabinet position then you lack the experience.It really depends on which horse the media are backing as to which of these arguments get perpetuated. Perhaps it's a good job that Tory MPs, who have seen them all at work, rather than what you read in the papers, will present 2 candidates to Conservative party members? They will be after someone who they think gives them the best chance of not losing their seat at the next election. |
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Post by lenny on Jul 18, 2022 10:12:05 GMT 1
I'm at the point where it's anyone bar Truss now. Agreed. I think electorally she'd be a May-esque disaster so wonder if the Tory establishment don't go some way to easing her aside before a run-off. I think both Tugendhat and Badenoch have done enough to raise their profiles and suggest they could be competent members of a cabinet, but both are one cycle too early to become leader I suspect and both are leaning a little too much on their single point of argument (Tugendhat was in the army, Badenoch has conservative views on gender identity... we get it) but both have articulated themselves well enough and seem competent even if I'm much closer to Tugendhat's views. Mordaunt says some good platitudes about everyone being friends. I am slightly startled by some of her economically illiterate comments (talking about "her" monetary policy or arguing her fuel duty cut will pay for itself) but if surrounded by some sound people that would be less of a concern. Plus anyone who the egotistical unelected bureaucrat (oh the irony) David Frost tries to rubbish immediately goes up in my estimation. Sunak is evidently a competent person and I'd wager the best match for the Conservatives against Starmer in an election - he has a sensible grasp of economic policy which it's harder to attack (even if there clearly have been mistakes) and is essentially fairly similar to Starmer but with a bit more slickness - when Labour have been gearing up for an election against Boris by doing very little and playing up the boring, sensible nature of their leader it will require a new plan of attack. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 18, 2022 11:21:38 GMT 1
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jul 18, 2022 11:42:31 GMT 1
From the outside looking in it appears Badenoch is the candidate core Tory voters desire, but she is further right than the majority of the electorate. It looks like when the Labour membership wanted Corbyn even though it was obvious to most that he was further left than the majority of the electorate, it's not an election winning strategy.
If the Tories want to challenge Labour it has to be Sunak, I think people can see Truss is like a robot and I think the more coverage Mourdant gets that she has no real ideas or plan and that's scary for someone wanting to run the country. Tudgenhat won't win the membership vote either as he's seen as the "one nation" candidate.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jul 18, 2022 13:17:33 GMT 1
I thought the big winner last night was Baddenoch, and think she’ll increase her votes later. Truss did better than Friday, but not difficult. Not sure exactly what she has delivered, as she keeps on reminding us. Tugenhat will be last tonight, but might get himself a cabinet place as seems decent and competent.
Sunak so much more on top of his brief than any of the others.
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Post by MetaShrew on Jul 18, 2022 13:34:45 GMT 1
Right-wing Sky News cancel their debate to avoid candidate bickering damaging the Conservative 'brand'.
Quelle surprise!
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 18, 2022 14:03:34 GMT 1
Right-wing Sky News cancel their debate to avoid candidate bickering damaging the Conservative 'brand'. Quelle surprise! Right wing? ****ing hell, find some shade and drink water 😂 |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 18, 2022 14:06:13 GMT 1
Right-wing Sky News cancel their debate to avoid candidate bickering damaging the Conservative 'brand'. Quelle surprise! Allowing a little plus point for sensible comments from two of those who may not get through:
"A source from Tom Tugendhat's team said he has "never stepped away from public scrutiny and has been the one candidate who has always put himself forward to the media holding an hour's Q&A last week".
"Given candidates are putting themselves forward to hold the greatest office in the land they should subject themselves to a similar level of scrutiny. If not through debates then in other formats," the source added.
A member of Penny Mordaunt's team said media scrutiny is important.
"Penny has done broadcast and allowed time for journalists to ask questions at her launch. MPs aren't just picking a new leader, but picking the nation's new PM," the source said.
"Penny hopes there will be ample opportunity for such scrutiny later in the contest in a format that allows detailed questions and insights."
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they have a big job on there hands to restore trust 
