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Post by northwestman on Oct 21, 2022 16:43:01 GMT 1
Sunak will probably get more MPs votes than Johnson. The MPs will recommend Sunak to the Members. The Members will then almost certainly vote for Johnson.
Then it gets really interesting. How many Tory MPs will resign or have the whip withdrawn? Boris got rid of 21 last time. What happens to the Parliamentary Standards Committee Investigation into Johnson lying to the House of Commons?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 21, 2022 16:48:19 GMT 1
Do you not think though that being ousted and humbled as he was he may have had time to reflect and perhaps we may see a different Boris Johnson; perhaps a more focused, dedicated, honest and decent Boris Johnson? Nah, me neither...  I would not discount that thought totally, EVEN he must notice he had his ar$e kicked, even if he came back more focused and dedicated to the ACTUAL job then who knows? Maybe but those things tend to come with age and with children and when it comes to Johnson we're well past that (and by a fair distance). |
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Post by wookeywombat on Oct 21, 2022 16:52:38 GMT 1
Has he ever ben sacked for lying. Unlike the supposed resurrected Boris who has quite categorically been sacked for lying (twice) and is still up before the parliamentary standards body accused of the same. When we're talking about whether someone is seen as a liar or not I'm not sure that matters. And we can talk about being sacked for lying but how does that compare to a politician ignoring the democratic process and democratic will of over 17 million people. Its not the best look. If you maintain he ignored the will of 17 million people you are in someway correct. That is not to mention the very sizeable minority who voted to remain and are still being ignored. Hence one of the main constituents of our divided society. Every poll since has indicated that the majority think Brexit was a mistake. Starmer was merely reflecting this and suggested another referendum. After all the original process was entirely flawed for many reasons including the promises made by the Vote Leave campaign which above all promised that trade with the EU would continue exactly as before. Never let it be forgotten that the original referendum was never brought about for the good of the country but solely for the good of the Conservative Party. Six years since and absolutely nothing has changed in all respects concerning that. |
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 21, 2022 17:07:22 GMT 1
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Post by salop27 on Oct 21, 2022 17:14:55 GMT 1
The MPs who have backed Johnson are a joke.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 21, 2022 17:37:43 GMT 1
The MPs who have backed Johnson are a joke. maybe they dont know what they are voting for |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 21, 2022 17:41:40 GMT 1
When we're talking about whether someone is seen as a liar or not I'm not sure that matters. And we can talk about being sacked for lying but how does that compare to a politician ignoring the democratic process and democratic will of over 17 million people. Its not the best look. If you maintain he ignored the will of 17 million people you are in someway correct. That is not to mention the very sizeable minority who voted to remain and are still being ignored. Hence one of the main constituents of our divided society. Every poll since has indicated that the majority think Brexit was a mistake. Starmer was merely reflecting this and suggested another referendum. After all the original process was entirely flawed for many reasons including the promises made by the Vote Leave campaign which above all promised that trade with the EU would continue exactly as before. Never let it be forgotten that the original referendum was never brought about for the good of the country but solely for the good of the Conservative Party. Six years since and absolutely nothing has changed in all respects concerning that. lol, still going on about brexit from 2016  |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 21, 2022 18:01:00 GMT 1
When we're talking about whether someone is seen as a liar or not I'm not sure that matters. And we can talk about being sacked for lying but how does that compare to a politician ignoring the democratic process and democratic will of over 17 million people. Its not the best look. If you maintain he ignored the will of 17 million people you are in someway correct. That is not to mention the very sizeable minority who voted to remain and are still being ignored. Hence one of the main constituents of our divided society. Every poll since has indicated that the majority think Brexit was a mistake. Starmer was merely reflecting this and suggested another referendum. After all the original process was entirely flawed for many reasons including the promises made by the Vote Leave campaign which above all promised that trade with the EU would continue exactly as before. Never let it be forgotten that the original referendum was never brought about for the good of the country but solely for the good of the Conservative Party. Six years since and absolutely nothing has changed in all respects concerning that. We're going over old ground. The question was should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union. Leave won and following on from that, Starmer said he would accept the result of the referendum and subsequently did not. That was the case as soon as he started to call for a second referendum with remain as an option. And in doing that he ignored the democratic will of an awful lot of people who voted to leave and expected their decision to be respected (as they were told it would be). Only the SNP voted against holding the referendum, both the Tories and Labour supported doing so and if you are going to do so then you ought to respect the result. So its hardly surprising there will be plenty of people out there who don't trust him. And I don't see the relevance of polling since or individual reasons as to why people think the referendum was called in the first place. This is about how Starmer conducted himself. And perhaps Pilch has it right about 2016 and Brexit. I just think its perfectly understandable that some don't trust Starmer. |
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Post by wookeywombat on Oct 21, 2022 18:35:58 GMT 1
If you maintain he ignored the will of 17 million people you are in someway correct. That is not to mention the very sizeable minority who voted to remain and are still being ignored. Hence one of the main constituents of our divided society. Every poll since has indicated that the majority think Brexit was a mistake. Starmer was merely reflecting this and suggested another referendum. After all the original process was entirely flawed for many reasons including the promises made by the Vote Leave campaign which above all promised that trade with the EU would continue exactly as before. Never let it be forgotten that the original referendum was never brought about for the good of the country but solely for the good of the Conservative Party. Six years since and absolutely nothing has changed in all respects concerning that. We're going over old ground. The question was should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union. Leave won and following on from that, Starmer said he would accept the result of the referendum and subsequently did not. That was the case as soon as he started to call for a second referendum with remain as an option. And in doing that he ignored the democratic will of an awful lot of people who voted to leave and expected their decision to be respected (as they were told it would be). Only the SNP voted against holding the referendum, both the Tories and Labour supported doing so and if you are going to do so then you ought to respect the result. So its hardly surprising there will be plenty of people out there who don't trust him. And I don't see the relevance of polling since or individual reasons as to why people think the referendum was called in the first place. This is about how Starmer conducted himself. And perhaps Pilch has it right about 2016 and Brexit. I just think its perfectly understandable that some don't trust Starmer. Perhaps Pilch is correct in that respect but it was you that brought up leaving the EU not me. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 21, 2022 18:51:34 GMT 1
We're going over old ground. The question was should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union. Leave won and following on from that, Starmer said he would accept the result of the referendum and subsequently did not. That was the case as soon as he started to call for a second referendum with remain as an option. And in doing that he ignored the democratic will of an awful lot of people who voted to leave and expected their decision to be respected (as they were told it would be). Only the SNP voted against holding the referendum, both the Tories and Labour supported doing so and if you are going to do so then you ought to respect the result. So its hardly surprising there will be plenty of people out there who don't trust him. And I don't see the relevance of polling since or individual reasons as to why people think the referendum was called in the first place. This is about how Starmer conducted himself. And perhaps Pilch has it right about 2016 and Brexit. I just think its perfectly understandable that some don't trust Starmer. Perhaps Pilch is correct in that respect but it was you that brought up leaving the EU not me. if remain had won by 1 single vote I presume you would have one hell of a guilty conscience ? I also wonder how you'd feel had remain managed 52% of the vote and I was going on about it 6 years later saying it was wrong and it all needs doing again I can guess |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 21, 2022 19:43:44 GMT 1
We're going over old ground. The question was should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union. Leave won and following on from that, Starmer said he would accept the result of the referendum and subsequently did not. That was the case as soon as he started to call for a second referendum with remain as an option. And in doing that he ignored the democratic will of an awful lot of people who voted to leave and expected their decision to be respected (as they were told it would be). Only the SNP voted against holding the referendum, both the Tories and Labour supported doing so and if you are going to do so then you ought to respect the result. So its hardly surprising there will be plenty of people out there who don't trust him. And I don't see the relevance of polling since or individual reasons as to why people think the referendum was called in the first place. This is about how Starmer conducted himself. And perhaps Pilch has it right about 2016 and Brexit. I just think its perfectly understandable that some don't trust Starmer. Perhaps Pilch is correct in that respect but it was you that brought up leaving the EU not me. Well in so far as to why some do not trust Starmer. That's about as far as I got. Difficult to explain otherwise. Nothing about polls or reasons or anything besides...👍 |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 21, 2022 22:28:27 GMT 1
Surprisingly Bill Cash is too. Anti EU of course, but I thought he would be too straight laced to support that old rogue Boris.
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Post by wookeywombat on Oct 21, 2022 22:40:11 GMT 1
Perhaps Pilch is correct in that respect but it was you that brought up leaving the EU not me. if remain had won by 1 single vote I presume you would have one hell of a guilty conscience ? I also wonder how you'd feel had remain managed 52% of the vote and I was going on about it 6 years later saying it was wrong and it all needs doing again I can guess I see no reason why I should stop going on about it as Nigel Farage (obviously you were a fan) said, using the same figure, he would carry on campaigning for leaving the EU if he lost. The result of the referendum was never supposed to be finite and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a campaign to rejoin, particularly as all polls since 2016 would be in favour of rejoining and that gap has widened now that people have realised the charade that it is. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 21, 2022 22:56:38 GMT 1
Old school decent Conservative view of the leadership: |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 22, 2022 6:29:26 GMT 1
if remain had won by 1 single vote I presume you would have one hell of a guilty conscience ? I also wonder how you'd feel had remain managed 52% of the vote and I was going on about it 6 years later saying it was wrong and it all needs doing again I can guess I see no reason why I should stop going on about it as Nigel Farage (obviously you were a fan) said, using the same figure, he would carry on campaigning for leaving the EU if he lost. The result of the referendum was never supposed to be finite and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a campaign to rejoin, particularly as all polls since 2016 would be in favour of rejoining and that gap has widened now that people have realised the charade that it is. all polls were in favour of remaining too before the important one that counted but hey let's just keep voting until we get the result you want |
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 22, 2022 7:50:46 GMT 1
Welcome home Boris 👍
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 22, 2022 8:29:29 GMT 1
Perhaps Pilch is correct in that respect but it was you that brought up leaving the EU not me. if remain had won by 1 single vote I presume you would have one hell of a guilty conscience ? I also wonder how you'd feel had remain managed 52% of the vote and I was going on about it 6 years later saying it was wrong and it all needs doing again I can guess Blimey people went on about leaving the EU for the whole 40 years since we first joined until we finally had a referendum and left. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 22, 2022 9:03:26 GMT 1
if remain had won by 1 single vote I presume you would have one hell of a guilty conscience ? I also wonder how you'd feel had remain managed 52% of the vote and I was going on about it 6 years later saying it was wrong and it all needs doing again I can guess Blimey people went on about leaving the EU for the whole 40 years since we first joined until we finally had a referendum and left. i'm going to have fun after the next election when i call for another vote on every other post ( rod for back alert ) 🤪 |
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 22, 2022 9:28:26 GMT 1
I see no reason why I should stop going on about it as Nigel Farage (obviously you were a fan) said, using the same figure, he would carry on campaigning for leaving the EU if he lost. The result of the referendum was never supposed to be finite and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a campaign to rejoin, particularly as all polls since 2016 would be in favour of rejoining and that gap has widened now that people have realised the charade that it is. all polls were in favour of remaining too before the important one that counted but hey let's just keep voting until we get the result you want Took the words out of my mouth, nobody expected us to leave first time, the silent majority spoke and would do so again Obviously I have a tiny sample, but I’ve still never met a Leaver who has changed their mind. Thankfully |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2022 9:48:30 GMT 1
Blimey people went on about leaving the EU for the whole 40 years since we first joined until we finally had a referendum and left. i'm going to have fun after the next election when i call for another vote on every other post ( rod for back alert ) 🤪 Stand down the rod for back alert!  You see, with a General Election you will get another one every 5 years.
On that basis another EU referendum is overdue.
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 22, 2022 10:02:12 GMT 1
Blimey people went on about leaving the EU for the whole 40 years since we first joined until we finally had a referendum and left. i'm going to have fun after the next election when i call for another vote on every other post ( rod for back alert ) 🤪 I haven’t just pointing out that losers of the original vote to join the EU never stopped harping on about leaving from day 1 and now you expect it to be a taboo subject….. It will come up occasionally as it was a big moment in our history and quite controversial if you remember. Even Boris joined 30 rebel tories who voted against the PMs first two MVs and forced her resignation from memory. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2022 10:08:34 GMT 1
Leaving the EU still gets talked about because it split the Tory party. They have never recovered.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 22, 2022 10:12:39 GMT 1
Won't post it all as I think just this section will do. This is from an article in the Telegraph today...
Boris Johnson will face Commons scrutiny on partygate up to three times a week from next month as the Privileges Committee investigating him picks up the pace of its inquiry.
The seven-strong committee of MPs will begin to hear oral evidence from witnesses in their attempt to decide whether Mr Johnson misled Parliament.
It could ultimately recommend that he is suspended from the House of Commons, which in turn could trigger a recall petition and by-election in his constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip.
So if he did win the leadership race, wouldn't things just be back to where it started? I can't recall exactly now but I'm sure there has been someone in the past who wasn't a constituency MP who was PM and so it might be possible...but I'm not 100% sure on that. But you suspect if he was to lose his seat it would just create more chaos, confusion, division and bring about more embarrassment to the Tory party.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 22, 2022 10:28:56 GMT 1
Who would think a lying, hypocritical degenerate was the answer to this crisis? A large number of Conservatives, apparently. The UK is in a political crisis layered on top of an economic crisis, which itself has needlessly exacerbated an already dire cost-of-living crisis. The idea that the answer to a single part of this horror show is to bring back a morally degenerate financial incontinent who broke his own laws is something that tells you everything about the terminal sad-sacks who are so much as thinking of it. The formal parliamentary investigation into Johnson’s last truth-aborting period in office is about to begin; if it ends up censuring him for misleading parliament over the No 10 lockdown parties, as is perfectly likely, then we’d be in a constitutional crisis too. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/21/the-tories-boris-johnson-crisis-conservatives |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 22, 2022 11:14:55 GMT 1
Who would think a lying, hypocritical degenerate was the answer to this crisis? A large number of Conservatives, apparently. The UK is in a political crisis layered on top of an economic crisis, which itself has needlessly exacerbated an already dire cost-of-living crisis. The idea that the answer to a single part of this horror show is to bring back a morally degenerate financial incontinent who broke his own laws is something that tells you everything about the terminal sad-sacks who are so much as thinking of it. The formal parliamentary investigation into Johnson’s last truth-aborting period in office is about to begin; if it ends up censuring him for misleading parliament over the No 10 lockdown parties, as is perfectly likely, then we’d be in a constitutional crisis too. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/21/the-tories-boris-johnson-crisis-conservativesit says a lot about the mp's and conservative party that they are going ahead with this and with some people blessing,all of which just confirms they have completely lost there moral compass. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2022 11:15:16 GMT 1
Yeah, welcome back to Britain. Not so welcome back in the old job though:
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Post by wookeywombat on Oct 22, 2022 11:27:11 GMT 1
He was also supposedly caretaker PM whilst the Tories elected a new one. In the face of increased economic turmoil he spent much of the time on holiday!!!. Indeed he was on holiday up to now when most MPs were in the House Of Commons. It goes to show the contempt he has for the people of Uxbridge and above all the country.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2022 11:44:12 GMT 1
The list of MPs backing Johnson is a who’s who of the lowest dregs of the Conservative party - Rees Mogg, Dorries, Patel, Kawczynski, Gullis, Fabricant, Clarke-Smith and co, sends a shiver down the spine.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 22, 2022 11:44:48 GMT 1
Should’ve won last time. Should win this time
Even if she doesn’t, the job is surely hers after a Labour wipeout in 2024
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2022 12:00:40 GMT 1
Should’ve won last time. Should win this time Even if she doesn’t, the job is surely hers after a Labour wipeout in 2024 Unless Ben Wallace finally puts his hat in the ring....
Maybe PM has shown a little bit of naivety this time by jumping straight in before sounding out if she could get the support of 100 MPs?
Whoever gets the job if the next election is a disaster would imagine they will be someone who puts clear blue water between them and Sunak, Boris, etc.
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You see, with a General Election you will get another one every 5 years.