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Post by ssshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:10:24 GMT 1
So, who's stupid enougth to want the job?  Have no fear there will be plenty of ‘wanna be s’ ready to give it a go. Whether they would be any good is a completely different question. There’s a hell of a lot of good and standing will to be made up both here and abroad. Do we actually have someone with statesman like qualities who can try and redeem us in the eyes of the world? At the moment we must look a complete farce with people rushing in and out of doors and duties like idiots. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 15:11:12 GMT 1
If they say it will be done within a week surely there won’t be time for the membership to be involved properly and given their past record that wouldn’t be a bad thing ! Why blame the membership? The finger of blame should point squarely at the Parliamentary party, they are supposed to govern, allegedly. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 20, 2022 15:12:12 GMT 1
liss truss will have the unenviable record of been the shortest serving PM in uk history .
replacing Sir Alec Douglas-Home who lasted one year and a day
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 20, 2022 15:13:44 GMT 1
we badly need calm and stability , we badly need a safe pair of hands, for the sake of the country, the people , the economy and our relations and status in the world.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:15:16 GMT 1
So, who's stupid enougth to want the job? Have no fear there will be plenty of ‘wanna be s’ ready to give it a go. Whether they would be any good is a completely different question. There’s a hell of a lot of good and standing will to be made up both here and abroad. Do we actually have someone with statesman like qualities who can try and redeem us in the eyes of the world? At the moment we must look a complete farce with people rushing in and out of doors and duties like idiots. That's the problem, those with statesman like qualities who can try and redeem us in the eyes of the world have more sense. |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:17:26 GMT 1
If they say it will be done within a week surely there won’t be time for the membership to be involved properly and given their past record that wouldn’t be a bad thing ! Why blame the membership? The finger of blame should point squarely at the Parliamentary party, they are supposed to govern, allegedly. But, as I understand it, it was the majority of the membership who voted for her and it’s the membership who people are saying will vote for her predecessor again. Surely it’s better that the members in Parliament who know and see the candidates have the final say rather than those who only see a ‘personality’? |
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 15:20:10 GMT 1
So, who's stupid enougth to want the job? anyone with any sense will not tough this pisoned chalice, the press has been very hostile to truss from day one and if opnion polls are to be belived who ever takes charge will potentially be in charge as the party get anhihalated in the next election. The Daily Mail was anything but hostile to Truss, constantly promoting her case against Sunak. That said, I'm convinced that the DM was playing the long game, in that they also always included articles saying how much of a mistake it was replacing Boris. The editors of the DM probably realised that Truss would be a disaster and would eventually give the opportunity for Johnson to try to make a comeback. Dacre and Verity are, together with Dorries, Johnson's Number 1 supporters. Cummings is of the same opinion - Boris backed Truss to help to see off Sunak and then would confidently expect the 'human hand grenade' to blow herself up. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:36:40 GMT 1
anyone with any sense will not tough this pisoned chalice, the press has been very hostile to truss from day one and if opnion polls are to be belived who ever takes charge will potentially be in charge as the party get anhihalated in the next election. The Daily Mail was anything but hostile to Truss, constantly promoting her case against Sunak. That said, I'm convinced that the DM was playing the long game, in that they also always included articles saying how much of a mistake it was replacing Boris. The editors of the DM probably realised that Truss would be a disaster and would eventually give the opportunity for Johnson to try to make a comeback. Dacre and Verity are, together with Dorries, Johnson's Number 1 supporters. Cummings is of the same opinion - Boris backed Truss to help to see off Sunak and then would confidently expect the 'human hand grenade' to blow herself up. Should those now embroiled in mortgage turmoil be enquiring what the heck Dacre, Verity together with Dorries and Boris thought they were doing and seeking recompense? |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:37:48 GMT 1
anyone with any sense will not tough this pisoned chalice, the press has been very hostile to truss from day one and if opnion polls are to be belived who ever takes charge will potentially be in charge as the party get anhihalated in the next election. The Daily Mail was anything but hostile to Truss, constantly promoting her case against Sunak. That said, I'm convinced that the DM was playing the long game, in that they also always included articles saying how much of a mistake it was replacing Boris. The editors of the DM probably realised that Truss would be a disaster and would eventually give the opportunity for Johnson to try to make a comeback. Dacre and Verity are, together with Dorries, Johnson's Number 1 supporters. Cummings is of the same opinion - Boris backed Truss to help to see off Sunak and then would confidently expect the 'human hand grenade' to blow herself up. Excuse me, and I may be wrong, but isn’t this the same Boris Johnson who was happy to appoint her as Foreign Secretary and let her represent us abroad? |
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Post by salop27 on Oct 20, 2022 15:42:07 GMT 1
New leader by 28th of October so you'd think no vote for the members this time. As an ex member I'm happy with that but suspect many current members won't be.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 15:43:19 GMT 1
This is a plausible scenario for how the chaos of the next week plays out, writes Ben Riley-Smith. Political Editor of the Telegraph.
Rishi Sunak storms into an early lead with Tory MPs. He easily won the MPs round in the summer leadership contest and warned about the danger of debt-fuelled tax cuts.
MPs who then are determined to stop Mr Sunak - and there are many still hurting after a bruising leadership contest - then scramble to find a candidate to beat him.
That leading candidate then emerges as… Boris Johnson. There is a big overlap between Mr Johnson and Ms Truss’s supporters. He - as Nadine Dorries notes - has a 2019 mandate. Which would mean a battle for Tory members between Mr Sunak and Mr Johnson.
An opinion poll this week of Tory Party members asked them to vote for different possible leaders. Who came top? Mr Johnson.
Sir Graham Brady said the current plan is for Tory members to play a role in choosing the next party leader.
Asked if members will be included and get a vote, he said: "That is the expectation."
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:46:38 GMT 1
Heaven help us all if they prefer a lying, cheating, hypocrite who is still under investigation. Unlike the rest of us who just want someone with integrity who can restore some of our standing in the world.
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Post by armchairfan on Oct 20, 2022 15:51:00 GMT 1
What a totally abysmal shambles; Boris Johnson, in a series of ill-considered misjudgements, contrived not only bring about his own downfall, but thrown away the great achievement of an 80 seat majority in Parliament; we members of a great political party were then presented with a decision to make, and boy, did we get it WRONG!
There are too many members in both main parties who cannot see beyond their own pet issues: this is as true of the Conservative members who demand low taxation/small government at whatever cost, in the main, Truss supporters, as it is of those Labour members who demand full-blooded Socialism/effectively leaving NATO; in short, giving ordinary party members a vote in the Partliamentary leadership, may well be democratic, but, given the consequences - the election of Mr Corbyn, and now, Ms Truss, such methods are clearly unsuitable; hardly surprising, really, as those most likely to vote and canvas for such individuals are the most politically committed, and therefore less open to compromise.
It should be the MPs, who collectively have a greater understanding of how politics works, who decide who amongst them is best qualified to gain the confidence of the Party in Westminster, and the confidence of the House, if that person is to be the PM.
The last few days and weeks have made me embarrassed (though certainly not ashamed) to be a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
As I said during the leadership contest, I supported Mr Sunak, because his candidacy was rooted in economic/fiscal Reality, something which we can all now see was lacking in Ms Truss's.
The question which any would-be Conservative leader has to ask themselves is " do I want to end my career as the leader who led his party to the greatest-ever General Election defeat?" Such a defeat seems almost inevitable, in terms of domestic politics, but international events may have a bearing......
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 15:51:15 GMT 1
Heaven help us all if they prefer a lying, cheating, hypocrite who is still under investigation. Unlike the rest of us who just want someone with integrity who can restore some of our standing in the world. Mordaunt might be the best bet there. But don't hold your breath! |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 20, 2022 15:54:26 GMT 1
Heaven help us all if they prefer a lying, cheating, hypocrite who is still under investigation. Unlike the rest of us who just want someone with integrity who can restore some of our standing in the world. Mordaunt might be the best bet there. But don't hold your breath! Yes from what little I have seen of her she certainly comes over well and looks the type of person I would like to see representing our country. |
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Post by cabanas2017 on Oct 20, 2022 16:28:29 GMT 1
I wouldn’t rule out Boris being re installed until the 2024 election purely because he has that mandate…..
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 20, 2022 16:50:11 GMT 1
I wouldn’t rule out Boris being re installed until the 2024 election purely because he has that mandate….. I doubt it but looking to how things have played out of late, I think you're right...I wouldn't bet against it either.  I suppose you could argue that he ought to carry the can. As whilst I appreciate two years is a long time in politics, with with the damage done Labour now look a shoe in. So why not let Johnson see it out and allow someone to then start a rebuild in opposition. It looked as poison chalice as it was; but now... I mean I doubt it but whoever takes it on must now know that more likely than not they'll be out come the next election. It would take a hell of an effort to turn this around. |
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Oct 20, 2022 17:01:13 GMT 1
If Boris is "re-elected" then I would suggest that the Tory party still aren't learning their lesson. Mourdant is the sensible choice, no baggage, not likely to anger half the nation. Britain needs to return to boring, sensible politics.
Alas I think the only way the Conservatives could provide us with that is with a time spent in opposition. A general election is the only way forward, in my opinion. Give the people a voice, it's obvious the party isn't in a fit state to decide by itself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 17:03:04 GMT 1
A general election has to be the best and only way forward at this time.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Oct 20, 2022 17:15:30 GMT 1
I disagree that a general election now would be a good thing solely for the reason an effective opposition is required to hold a government to account. The Conservatives are projected tin less than 100 seats, that would not be good. Labour will get in come 2024/5 I can’t see how a GE now is even likely anyway.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2022 17:34:18 GMT 1
Be in no doubt whatsoever as to who the Daily Mail is backing - and always has.
Tonight's headline - Liz out...Boris in?
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Post by MetaShrew on Oct 20, 2022 17:36:13 GMT 1
I disagree that a general election now would be a good thing solely for the reason an effective opposition is required to hold a government to account. The Conservatives are projected tin less than 100 seats, that would not be good. Labour will get in come 2024/5 I can’t see how a GE now is even likely anyway. The SNP and Lib Dems are more than up to the task of scrutinising Labour – as they have been when scrutinising the Tories – in the (very unlikely) event that the Conservatives win fewer seats than them. |
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Post by cabanas2017 on Oct 20, 2022 17:42:10 GMT 1
I disagree that a general election now would be a good thing solely for the reason an effective opposition is required to hold a government to account. The Conservatives are projected tin less than 100 seats, that would not be good. Labour will get in come 2024/5 I can’t see how a GE now is even likely anyway. The SNP and Lib Dems are more than up to the task of scrutinising Labour – as they have been when scrutinising the Tories – in the (very unlikely) event that the Conservatives win fewer seats than them. Not against 460 Labour seats |
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 20, 2022 17:47:58 GMT 1
The SNP and Lib Dems are more than up to the task of scrutinising Labour – as they have been when scrutinising the Tories – in the (very unlikely) event that the Conservatives win fewer seats than them. Not against 460 Labour seats But how would another 2 years of daily revelations pan out? Boris is still under investigation for misleading parliament. |
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Post by martinshrew on Oct 20, 2022 17:48:18 GMT 1
Boris is the only one who has a mandate now, bring him back into the fold with the promise of a mid-2023 General Election.
That would put the cat amongst the pigeons ... And probably send northwestman and the guardian over the edge.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 20, 2022 17:52:14 GMT 1
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Post by Worthingshrew on Oct 20, 2022 18:00:56 GMT 1
I wouldn’t rule out Boris being re installed until the 2024 election purely because he has that mandate….. BBC reporting there are Tory MPs prepared to resign, force by-elections, and defect if Boris stands. So much for bringing the party and country together. Surely, there are enough MPs to know the utter damage he causes wherever he goes? |
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Post by edgmond on Oct 20, 2022 18:04:06 GMT 1
So would the Tory party risk reinstating Johnson, only for him to be found guilty of misleading Parliament deliberately and then having to resign … again?
Nothing would surprise me from that absolute shambles, despite hundreds of them queueing up to condemn him only a few months ago.
They would do anything to save their political skins, even if only for a few more months.
And as for the Daily Mail… without the orchestrated campaign it led to defame Mordaunt, Truss may never have been in the members’ ballot.
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Post by neilsalop on Oct 20, 2022 18:04:47 GMT 1
To be honest a general election right now would not be in Labours best interests. The economy is in the s**tter, interest rates are climbing, inflation is over 10%, energy prices (even with the government intervention) are stratospheric and set to climb even further, winter is around the corner and there is just not a quick fix. This is the Tories mess, let them take the responsibility for it. An easy general election win hands the poisoned chalice to Labour to deal with.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2022 18:05:19 GMT 1
Boris is the only one who has a mandate now, bring him back into the fold with the promise of a mid-2023 General Election. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons ... And probably send northwestman and the guardian over the edge. Boris may well be their only slim hope of having a leader who could win an election. Getting everyone to overlook all the misdeeds, not least his MP colleagues, is a big ask though.
Me, I'm still with PM4PM. Wouldn't say she was great leader, but not a loose cannon, comes accross ok to the people, won't ruffle feathers.
They won't want one, but an election sooner rather than later is the only real answer - that's what puts Boris back in the frame, the faint hope he can talk another election win.
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I suppose you could argue that he ought to carry the can. As whilst I appreciate two years is a long time in politics, with with the damage done Labour now look a shoe in. So why not let Johnson see it out and allow someone to then start a rebuild in opposition. It looked as poison chalice as it was; but now... 
