|
Post by martinshrew on May 27, 2022 16:11:17 GMT 1
Blimey, if families can't manage on £50k combined then heaven help those in the much lower income bracket. On the subject of oversized SUVs on the road (most on PCP you would think), I visited my daughter yesterday (she lives on a new estate in Sandbach). The estate is only 70% complete yet there are already issues with car parking. Nearly every house has at least 2 or 3 vehicles and the vast majority are certainly in the mid to higher range price bracket. I hate to think what some of these families are spending monthly on PCP just to have a nice/fancy car. Again for some it's: Flash car > High end fashion > Everything else
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on May 27, 2022 16:51:52 GMT 1
Did they also break their promise on no global pandemic and no war in Europe? Are we saying world events affect the government? Perhaps you will reappraise Gordon Brown's record then, Tories spent years blaming Labour for an economic downturn when it was a world crisis. I note that now the Tories are quite prepared to sell off chunks of the bank Brown saved for billions and quietly pocket the money.
As for Covid, the fact that the Tories didn't have the NHS prepared for a pandemic in line with a report a few years back is well documented.
Then there is the way Russian money has been accepted by the Tories, never did look right, now it looks like a very big mistake.
I'm guessing you missed the fact that the UK's Covid outcome was much the same as everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on May 27, 2022 17:22:46 GMT 1
I think the cost of living issue is going to dominate politics in the next 3-4 years, as all the economic predictions are we're in for a really tough couple of years. In particular the issue of people in work - often reasonably paid work - being able to make ends meet is going to impact the local economy a lot, and also influence how we recruit and retain key workers into our essential services such as care and NHS work, food production and the retail sector. Shropshire is way behind the South East of England in terms of property prices, but we have many towns where the average house price is upto 10 times the annual average wage, and the private rented sector is often much higher than monthly mortgage costs. Add in the increasing fuel and heating costs, food price increases and cost of child care and its not hard to see how household earning less than £50k a year will start to struggle. But Matt have you factored in "having the latest smartphones, or multiple TV subscription package". I'm assuming you aren't suggesting key workers should not have smartphones and tv subscriptions? The DWP now expect benefit claims to be submitted online and the vast majority of job applications are online too as is a lot of home working and education resources so having a smart phone or high speed broadband are pretty essential for everyone. Most services come with a tv service of some kind now so its hardly the jet set life style to have such technology now. We (Shropshire Council) are actually just consulting on the criteria for quailifying for affordable housing properties in the county, and the annual household income of £50,000 (gross) is being set as the upper limit. Getting privated rented accomodation or buying open market housing without that level of income is becoming increasingly difficult in Shropshire. I imagine in parts of the south of England that income level is much higher. There is also the issue of a lot of people in Shropshire being capital rich but revenue poor. I know of cases where older people have been living in properties all their lives, which are now worth £300,000 plus, but their weekly income makes it a real struggle to heat and light the house and pay the regular bills. Its easy to suggest people move and downsize but smaller properties aren't always available, and often peoples wider family and support network live in the same community so people don't want to move.
|
|
|
Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 27, 2022 17:49:32 GMT 1
Whilst most people will be able to tighten their own belts, people who were in relatively secure financial positions may be locked into Sky contracts, phone contracts or car leases that they cannot just simply end on a whim. Likewise if interest rates rise and peoples mortgages increase by a couple of hundred pounds a month, it’s a bit harsh to blame poor planning when the impact has been so sudden and so sharp.
That said, I don’t think mass handouts are the answer at all. I can’t see how these do much except keep prices high and keep inflation rising.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on May 27, 2022 18:18:19 GMT 1
Where they live will be a huge factor but £50k combined is not a lot of money these days, particularly if you're renting somewhere where prices are rising but you may have kids in local schools etc. It might not be a lot, but it's more than enough to pay rent/mortgage, bills, support your kids, fuel your car and have money left over. There is no way a family earning £50k should be putting their last £5 in the petrol tank unless they're mismanaging their finances. Whether it's mismanagement now or historical mismanagement, it's still mismanagement. I'm not saying they should be rich or privileged or anything like, but they should be getting by fine. Let's be honest, it's pointless speculating isn't it? Give we have no fecking idea of the circumstances of the family in question. In order to be a senior nurse though, mum likely has student debt so even at the top end of that range (£40k), income is probably closer to £2.2k than £2.5k, leaving dad at around £800 a month. No idea how many kids but assuming a couple, give them £130 cb and that's your lot. Even across the street from me in Wem there's a 4 bed house that rents for £1k a month and this is (theoretically) a lower cost of living area. Council tax, assuming not in a wealthy London Borough, will be up to 200 quid (cheaper in London but then rent will be much higher). The car thing is a common stick to beat people with but it comes back to the Sam Vimes law of economics; it's expensive being poor. If you simply don't have available capital to buy a second hand car then you're left with leases/car loans which will run you a couple of hundred quid a month at the very least plus insurance plus fuel. Overall you're looking at more like £500 a month. Gas and electric can easily be North of £300 for a family of 4 then there's food. Even being frugal you will struggle to get much change from a 1er a week and that's before we've even looked at phone bill, broadband and incidentals (kids shoes will run you 50 quid a time each, birthdays, Christmas, trips) and then - heaven forbid - you might actually want to enjoy yourself very occasionally rather than just grind through life and a meal out for two plus a few drinks on a weekend will run you 60 quid a least, more if you have to get a babysitter. The problem with all this "they should be fine" pearl clutching is it assumes people can, and should, be happy with an austere life ad infinitum simply because if economics but that doesn't reflect reality. There are always discretionary events that aren't really discretionary; family weddings, Christmas. Football even. A developed country shouldn't be patting itself on the back because families can just about manage. It's not unreasonable for somebody who's studied hard to do an important role for society to feel like they should actually be able to be reasonably comfortable. Not worry about putting the heating on, eat nice food, the odd night out or holiday even. Savings. The fact that people can't should be keeping our conservative Lords and masters up at night. In the 21st century it's the disappointed middle class that starts revolutions (look at the Arab spring)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2022 18:24:57 GMT 1
There’s also this thing about budgets whereby you could have worked out the best most prudent budget in the world five years ago that left you a good couple of hundred a month spare, but as wages haven’t risen and inflation is now ripping it up they find themselves now with nothing. They’ve swapped from sainsburys to Asda and an extra 50-£100 a month in fuel costs pushes them beyond breaking point. I do get martins point. If someone’s on the brink now and takes out a new £50 a month phone contract clearly that’s an issue but that’s not going to be too many people is it?
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on May 27, 2022 18:39:27 GMT 1
I think the cost of living issue is going to dominate politics in the next 3-4 years, as all the economic predictions are we're in for a really tough couple of years. In particular the issue of people in work - often reasonably paid work - being able to make ends meet is going to impact the local economy a lot, and also influence how we recruit and retain key workers into our essential services such as care and NHS work, food production and the retail sector. Shropshire is way behind the South East of England in terms of property prices, but we have many towns where the average house price is upto 10 times the annual average wage, and the private rented sector is often much higher than monthly mortgage costs. Add in the increasing fuel and heating costs, food price increases and cost of child care and its not hard to see how household earning less than £50k a year will start to struggle. But Matt have you factored in "having the latest smartphones, or multiple TV subscription package". Judging by the number of high value cars my working neighbours seem to have I think Personal Car Leasing must be popular and from the one enquiry I made when working wouldn’t surprise me if folk commit to £6/7/800+ a month without too much thought.
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on May 27, 2022 18:45:47 GMT 1
It might not be a lot, but it's more than enough to pay rent/mortgage, bills, support your kids, fuel your car and have money left over. There is no way a family earning £50k should be putting their last £5 in the petrol tank unless they're mismanaging their finances. Whether it's mismanagement now or historical mismanagement, it's still mismanagement. I'm not saying they should be rich or privileged or anything like, but they should be getting by fine. Let's be honest, it's pointless speculating isn't it? Give we have no fecking idea of the circumstances of the family in question. In order to be a senior nurse though, mum likely has student debt so even at the top end of that range (£40k), income is probably closer to £2.2k than £2.5k, leaving dad at around £800 a month. No idea how many kids but assuming a couple, give them £130 cb and that's your lot. Even across the street from me in Wem there's a 4 bed house that rents for £1k a month and this is (theoretically) a lower cost of living area. Council tax, assuming not in a wealthy London Borough, will be up to 200 quid (cheaper in London but then rent will be much higher). The car thing is a common stick to beat people with but it comes back to the Sam Vimes law of economics; it's expensive being poor. If you simply don't have available capital to buy a second hand car then you're left with leases/car loans which will run you a couple of hundred quid a month at the very least plus insurance plus fuel. Overall you're looking at more like £500 a month. Gas and electric can easily be North of £300 for a family of 4 then there's food. Even being frugal you will struggle to get much change from a 1er a week and that's before we've even looked at phone bill, broadband and incidentals (kids shoes will run you 50 quid a time each, birthdays, Christmas, trips) and then - heaven forbid - you might actually want to enjoy yourself very occasionally rather than just grind through life and a meal out for two plus a few drinks on a weekend will run you 60 quid a least, more if you have to get a babysitter. The problem with all this "they should be fine" pearl clutching is it assumes people can, and should, be happy with an austere life ad infinitum simply because if economics but that doesn't reflect reality. There are always discretionary events that aren't really discretionary; family weddings, Christmas. Football even. A developed country shouldn't be patting itself on the back because families can just about manage. It's not unreasonable for somebody who's studied hard to do an important role for society to feel like they should actually be able to be reasonably comfortable. Not worry about putting the heating on, eat nice food, the odd night out or holiday even. Savings. The fact that people can't should be keeping our conservative Lords and masters up at night. In the 21st century it's the disappointed middle class that starts revolutions (look at the Arab spring) To be honest if you go on the ONS figures for average costs you are under estimating the monthly out goings quite a bit. Other big, but essential costs such as childcare (especially for under 5's) dentists and opticians and household insurance and mortgage payment protections all mount up too. I think there is something to be said for teaching better household planning - much in the way Martin Lewis does. And people under 35 have never really experienced high inflaction as maybe don't have the "rainy day" savings the older generation got scared into having due to the 70s inflation rates. When we do affordability reviews for people looking for housing we find people under estimate just how much the day to day essentials costs and don't factor in things like insurance. Another factor in the squeeze on middle income budgets is that alot of that groups leisure spend is often in the service and hospitality sector, which makes up a big percentage of the uk economy now we manufacture and export less. Through eating out, gyms, cinema, holidays and personal services such as hair dressers that spending group helps support a lot of the economy. If that group has to cut back the knock on impact on the economy - and the amount of money the government collects through taxes - goes down too, and soon you head into stagnant or recessions in the economy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2022 19:30:17 GMT 1
But Matt have you factored in "having the latest smartphones, or multiple TV subscription package". Judging by the number of high value cars my working neighbours seem to have I think Personal Car Leasing must be popular and from the one enquiry I made when working wouldn’t surprise me if folk commit to £6/7/800+ a month without too much thought. My thoughts exactly when I was on my daughter's estate yesterday looking at all the cars around.
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on May 27, 2022 19:34:31 GMT 1
That said, I don’t think mass handouts are the answer at all. I can’t see how these do much except keep prices high and keep inflation rising. I think our current inflation problem is caused by supply side issues, rather than being led by greater demand for goods pushing up prices. If that's the case, the "handouts" shouldn't be inflationary.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on May 27, 2022 19:34:37 GMT 1
Are we saying world events affect the government? Perhaps you will reappraise Gordon Brown's record then, Tories spent years blaming Labour for an economic downturn when it was a world crisis. I note that now the Tories are quite prepared to sell off chunks of the bank Brown saved for billions and quietly pocket the money.
As for Covid, the fact that the Tories didn't have the NHS prepared for a pandemic in line with a report a few years back is well documented.
Then there is the way Russian money has been accepted by the Tories, never did look right, now it looks like a very big mistake.
I'm guessing you missed the fact that the UK's Covid outcome was much the same as everyone else. I guess I was thinking that before the Tories got in we had a health service that was better than most other countries and better health protection teams.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on May 27, 2022 19:37:08 GMT 1
But Matt have you factored in "having the latest smartphones, or multiple TV subscription package". Judging by the number of high value cars my working neighbours seem to have I think Personal Car Leasing must be popular and from the one enquiry I made when working wouldn’t surprise me if folk commit to £6/7/800+ a month without too much thought. I assume many get them as a company "perk". I know my ex neighbour did.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on May 28, 2022 9:14:53 GMT 1
Let's be honest, it's pointless speculating isn't it? Give we have no fecking idea of the circumstances of the family in question. In order to be a senior nurse though, mum likely has student debt so even at the top end of that range (£40k), income is probably closer to £2.2k than £2.5k, leaving dad at around £800 a month. No idea how many kids but assuming a couple, give them £130 cb and that's your lot. Even across the street from me in Wem there's a 4 bed house that rents for £1k a month and this is (theoretically) a lower cost of living area. Council tax, assuming not in a wealthy London Borough, will be up to 200 quid (cheaper in London but then rent will be much higher). The car thing is a common stick to beat people with but it comes back to the Sam Vimes law of economics; it's expensive being poor. If you simply don't have available capital to buy a second hand car then you're left with leases/car loans which will run you a couple of hundred quid a month at the very least plus insurance plus fuel. Overall you're looking at more like £500 a month. Gas and electric can easily be North of £300 for a family of 4 then there's food. Even being frugal you will struggle to get much change from a 1er a week and that's before we've even looked at phone bill, broadband and incidentals (kids shoes will run you 50 quid a time each, birthdays, Christmas, trips) and then - heaven forbid - you might actually want to enjoy yourself very occasionally rather than just grind through life and a meal out for two plus a few drinks on a weekend will run you 60 quid a least, more if you have to get a babysitter. The problem with all this "they should be fine" pearl clutching is it assumes people can, and should, be happy with an austere life ad infinitum simply because if economics but that doesn't reflect reality. There are always discretionary events that aren't really discretionary; family weddings, Christmas. Football even. A developed country shouldn't be patting itself on the back because families can just about manage. It's not unreasonable for somebody who's studied hard to do an important role for society to feel like they should actually be able to be reasonably comfortable. Not worry about putting the heating on, eat nice food, the odd night out or holiday even. Savings. The fact that people can't should be keeping our conservative Lords and masters up at night. In the 21st century it's the disappointed middle class that starts revolutions (look at the Arab spring) To be honest if you go on the ONS figures for average costs you are under estimating the monthly out goings quite a bit. Other big, but essential costs such as childcare (especially for under 5's) dentists and opticians and household insurance and mortgage payment protections all mount up too. I think there is something to be said for teaching better household planning - much in the way Martin Lewis does. And people under 35 have never really experienced high inflaction as maybe don't have the "rainy day" savings the older generation got scared into having due to the 70s inflation rates. When we do affordability reviews for people looking for housing we find people under estimate just how much the day to day essentials costs and don't factor in things like insurance. Another factor in the squeeze on middle income budgets is that alot of that groups leisure spend is often in the service and hospitality sector, which makes up a big percentage of the uk economy now we manufacture and export less. Through eating out, gyms, cinema, holidays and personal services such as hair dressers that spending group helps support a lot of the economy. If that group has to cut back the knock on impact on the economy - and the amount of money the government collects through taxes - goes down too, and soon you head into stagnant or recessions in the economy Agree, not a comprehensive telling on my part but just wanted to make the point to martin and others that £50k is not a great deal of money these days, especially if you don't already own your own home and vehicle. One point i will make though is this couple (depending on age of their children) will likely qualify for 30 hours free childcare but if not, it's eye wateringly expensive. The point on dentists, opticians, payment protection insurance etc is people will just do without which is a problem in and of itself.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on May 28, 2022 11:24:15 GMT 1
Handing out money to everyone to help with the cost of living is the worst of all options.
First of all, they're sending a message to everyone who doesn't want to work, that the taxpayer will always have your back when the going gets tough, even if you don't want to work. Secondly, this artificial economic stimulus of private individuals' finances will only serve to increase inflation.
What Sunak should have done was remove VAT on energy, cut green levies, reduce income tax across the board, including national insurance. As with the measures announced this week, that approach would have cost billions to the treasury, but at least it would have sent a message to the country that if you want to survive, you have to find a job, and the government will let you keep more of what you've earned. That would have helped productivity and output in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on May 28, 2022 11:29:24 GMT 1
Handing out money to everyone to help with the cost of living is the worst of all options. First of all, they're sending a message to everyone who doesn't want to work, that the taxpayer will always have your back when the going gets tough, even if you don't want to work. Secondly, this artificial economic stimulus of private individuals' finances will only serve to increase inflation. What Sunak should have done was remove VAT on energy, cut green levies, reduce income tax across the board, including national insurance. As with the measures announced this week, that approach would have cost billions to the treasury, but at least it would have sent a message to the country that if you want to survive, you have to find a job, and the government will let you keep more of what you've earned. That would have helped productivity and output in the long run. Unemployment is already at its lowest for a crazy amount of time. I think everyone knows the days of sitting on your arse and getting a couple of thousand a month in benefits from a Labour government are gone. Those days when people decided whether to bother going to work before you could sit at home for the same or nigh on the same amount. Thankfully such nonsense has passed.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 28, 2022 11:54:11 GMT 1
Handing out money to everyone to help with the cost of living is the worst of all options. First of all, they're sending a message to everyone who doesn't want to work, that the taxpayer will always have your back when the going gets tough, even if you don't want to work. Secondly, this artificial economic stimulus of private individuals' finances will only serve to increase inflation. What Sunak should have done was remove VAT on energy, cut green levies, reduce income tax across the board, including national insurance. As with the measures announced this week, that approach would have cost billions to the treasury, but at least it would have sent a message to the country that if you want to survive, you have to find a job, and the government will let you keep more of what you've earned. That would have helped productivity and output in the long run. Unemployment is already at its lowest for a crazy amount of time. I think everyone knows the days of sitting on your arse and getting a couple of thousand a month in benefits from a Labour government are gone. Those days when people decided whether to bother going to work before you could sit at home for the same or nigh on the same amount. Thankfully such nonsense has passed. and those that could be bothered to work went on strike when they got there 🤣
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on May 28, 2022 12:05:11 GMT 1
Handing out money to everyone to help with the cost of living is the worst of all options. First of all, they're sending a message to everyone who doesn't want to work, that the taxpayer will always have your back when the going gets tough, even if you don't want to work. Secondly, this artificial economic stimulus of private individuals' finances will only serve to increase inflation. What Sunak should have done was remove VAT on energy, cut green levies, reduce income tax across the board, including national insurance. As with the measures announced this week, that approach would have cost billions to the treasury, but at least it would have sent a message to the country that if you want to survive, you have to find a job, and the government will let you keep more of what you've earned. That would have helped productivity and output in the long run. Unemployment is already at its lowest for a crazy amount of time. I think everyone knows the days of sitting on your arse and getting a couple of thousand a month in benefits from a Labour government are gone. Those days when people decided whether to bother going to work before you could sit at home for the same or nigh on the same amount. Thankfully such nonsense has passed. Those days have not gone. Check out those not working and you will find that there are still ways to play the system. But keep raising the minimum/living wage and some might decide getting a job isn't such a bad thing. Our lowest paid, often essential workers, deserve a bit more praise and reward anyway, an opportunity to participate in society, get a posh Smartphone, have Sky perhaps - like everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on May 28, 2022 12:26:07 GMT 1
Unemployment is already at its lowest for a crazy amount of time. I think everyone knows the days of sitting on your arse and getting a couple of thousand a month in benefits from a Labour government are gone. Those days when people decided whether to bother going to work before you could sit at home for the same or nigh on the same amount. Thankfully such nonsense has passed. Those days have not gone. Check out those not working and you will find that there are still ways to play the system. But keep raising the minimum/living wage and some might decide getting a job isn't such a bad thing. Our lowest paid, often essential workers, deserve a bit more praise and reward anyway, an opportunity to participate in society, get a posh Smartphone, have Sky perhaps - like everyone else. People keep referring back to my smartphone and TV subscription piece. If I was on a very tight budget, I'd have a basic smartphone and basic Sky that comes with broadband. At the point I'm comfortable I might think about Sky Sports, Sky Cinema, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. My Dad always told me to buy a house, pay the bills, get six months worth of wages in savings and then think about the nicer things in life. If it takes years to save six months worth, it takes years, you'll very likely need it at some point and if you don't you're one of the lucky ones. I don't think he's far wrong.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on May 28, 2022 12:37:04 GMT 1
Those days have not gone. Check out those not working and you will find that there are still ways to play the system. But keep raising the minimum/living wage and some might decide getting a job isn't such a bad thing. Our lowest paid, often essential workers, deserve a bit more praise and reward anyway, an opportunity to participate in society, get a posh Smartphone, have Sky perhaps - like everyone else. People keep referring back to my smartphone and TV subscription piece. If I was on a very tight budget, I'd have a basic smartphone and basic Sky that comes with broadband. At the point I'm comfortable I might think about Sky Sports, Sky Cinema, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. My Dad always told me to buy a house, pay the bills, get six months worth of wages in savings and then think about the nicer things in life. If it takes years to save six months worth, it takes years, you'll very likely need it at some point and if you don't you're one of the lucky ones. I don't think he's far wrong. Absolutely right. I wouldn't have any extra subscription TV in the house. But I think those on the lower end of the pay and social scale feel left out and get a "why shouldn't I have some of the good things" mentality. We need to value our lower paid more - give them the opportunity to progress and earn more, rather than feel stuck at the bottom of the pile.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on May 29, 2022 9:35:56 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/29/400-second-home-owners-fuel-bills-whistable-kent-seaside-chancellor-payout‘It’s not on’: Whitstable rages against extra £400 for second-home owners’ fuel bills. People in the Kent seaside town – a popular bolthole for wealthy Londoners – see no justice in the chancellor’s payout. In the Kent coastal town, such generosity has left many – largely those who own a single home – bewildered. “The house next door to me has been sold to a wealthy developer to convert into holiday homes. The same with the one opposite,” said Peter Robinson, a retired council worker. Further along Whitstable’s beachfront promenade, retired teacher Sarah Houseman similarly lamented the chancellor’s largesse. “It would seem unfair to give these people more money,” said the 65-year-old. Houseman noted that neighbouring three-bed terraced homes were being rented out to tourists for between £700 and £800 a weekend. “And they have no problem getting that. These people don’t need extra help.” Like many in the town, she felt that Sunak’s announcement was rushed out last Thursday in order to deaden the outrage that followed Sue Gray’s Partygate report. “It’s not fair to use this [the energy crisis] in order to save their political skin,” she said.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on May 29, 2022 9:47:38 GMT 1
Maybe the voting public are starting to see through this government's thin veneer of knowing what they are doing? Policies seem to change, eventually, to one that everyone can see is the sort of thing that should happen. But even when it does happen, it's not thought through and used to save their skins when things get bad.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on May 29, 2022 9:51:31 GMT 1
Maybe the voting public are starting to see through this government's thin veneer of knowing what they are doing? Policies seem to change, eventually, to one that everyone can see is the sort of thing that should happen. But even when it does happen, it's not thought through and used to save their skins when things get bad. Absolutely, Labour must be 1/6 on now for the next general election.
|
|
|
Post by cabanas2017 on May 29, 2022 11:01:41 GMT 1
In reality the problem is that too many Tory and Labour voters have the same traditional loyalty to their party regardless as they do to their football teams, and has been the case for decades. Kind of need a Labour term then a Tory term for some equalibrium not 3 terms Labour then 3 or 4 terms Tory. Liberals will never be elected to power again in their own right.
When I read the good debates on this messageboard you still sense that loyalty regardless….
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2022 20:25:38 GMT 1
My Dad always told me to buy a house, pay the bills, get six months worth of wages in savings and then think about the nicer things in life. If it takes years to save six months worth, it takes years, you'll very likely need it at some point and if you don't you're one of the lucky ones. I don't think he's far wrong Which is good advice, but having lived under austerity now for ten years and also been through a two year pandemic, those 6 months saving are long gone!
|
|
|
Post by barrynic on May 29, 2022 21:57:57 GMT 1
In reality the problem is that too many Tory and Labour voters have the same traditional loyalty to their party regardless as they do to their football teams, and has been the case for decades. Kind of need a Labour term then a Tory term for some equalibrium not 3 terms Labour then 3 or 4 terms Tory. Liberals will never be elected to power again in their own right. When I read the good debates on this messageboard you still sense that loyalty regardless…. Indeed....I will always vote Tory regardless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2022 22:00:24 GMT 1
In reality the problem is that too many Tory and Labour voters have the same traditional loyalty to their party regardless as they do to their football teams, and has been the case for decades. Kind of need a Labour term then a Tory term for some equalibrium not 3 terms Labour then 3 or 4 terms Tory. Liberals will never be elected to power again in their own right. When I read the good debates on this messageboard you still sense that loyalty regardless…. Indeed....I will always vote Tory regardless. You’re a good man Barry, but no one’s perfect😂😉👍
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 29, 2022 23:36:25 GMT 1
In reality the problem is that too many Tory and Labour voters have the same traditional loyalty to their party regardless as they do to their football teams, and has been the case for decades. Kind of need a Labour term then a Tory term for some equalibrium not 3 terms Labour then 3 or 4 terms Tory. Liberals will never be elected to power again in their own right. When I read the good debates on this messageboard you still sense that loyalty regardless…. I'm totally with you, I hope you don't sense that from me though, I gave up voting when I voted for Paul Marsden, who promptly signed for another side. to me our country is not a democracy, its a dictatorship to which we get to vote for a new leader ever 4 or 5 years, if we feel the need to, the only say we've ever had on how the country operates was the Europe referendum, we need more of these on a wide range of subjects
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on May 30, 2022 7:21:38 GMT 1
''The exact details of the regulations to be repealed has yet to be decided but the bulk are likely to be related to the environment, workplaces, transport, tax and health and safety, according to those involved.''
Nothing to see here just workers rights, H&S legislation and environmental protections being culled in an effort to make Brexit look less like the cluster**** it actually is. Move along please.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on May 30, 2022 10:03:35 GMT 1
In reality the problem is that too many Tory and Labour voters have the same traditional loyalty to their party regardless as they do to their football teams, and has been the case for decades. Kind of need a Labour term then a Tory term for some equalibrium not 3 terms Labour then 3 or 4 terms Tory. Liberals will never be elected to power again in their own right. When I read the good debates on this messageboard you still sense that loyalty regardless…. Indeed....I will always vote Tory regardless. As will at least 30% of the electorate, even in Blair's landslide victory in 1997.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 12:58:25 GMT 1
Problem is, unless you live in a marginal constituency your vote at a general election counts for nothing.
My current constituency, Eddisbury is Tory through and through.
|
|