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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 18:46:52 GMT 1
Sorry to kill the mood after he last post but… news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-footage-shows-russian-troops-appearing-to-fire-on-peaceful-protesters-in-kherson-12572208Russian troops appear to have opened fire on a peaceful demonstration in Kherson, with CCTV footage showing protesters fleeing as military vehicles advance. The southern port city was seized early on in the nearly month-long war and Moscow claims it controls the Kherson region. Journalist Max Seddon from the Financial Times tweeted: "Russian troops opened fire on a peaceful crowd in Kherson, where regular protests have gone on since they captured it. "Also seem to have used flash-bang grenades. There are reports (and videos) of wounded civilians." And the Wall Street Journal's Yaroslav Trofimov tweeted a video purportedly showing people injured by the shots. On Sunday, dozens of protesters, some wrapped in Ukraine's blue-and-yellow flag, marched along Ushakova Avenue in Kherson and chanted "Go home" in Russian at two military vehicles with Russian markings. we cant avoid the deadful reality of what is happening , my vicar has links to the ukraine and we have weekly pray for ukraine season , the vicar gets updates from her friends and the horrors are even worse than the media reports. One of Lily's school friends has lost contact with her relatives in the Ukraine although the last we heard is that they were in the west of Ukraine, so safe for now. Unfortunately, as the Russian bombardment intensifies, communication with parts of the Ukraine is becoming more fragmented.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 21, 2022 18:51:25 GMT 1
It is another example of the "total war" to which Churchill committed this country in WWII; the difference this time is that a similar response would be unconsciable for well-known reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 18:53:14 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 21, 2022 18:55:28 GMT 1
we cant avoid the deadful reality of what is happening , my vicar has links to the ukraine and we have weekly pray for ukraine season , the vicar gets updates from her friends and the horrors are even worse than the media reports. One of Lily's school friends has lost contact with her relatives in the Ukraine although the last we heard is that they were in the west of Ukraine, so safe for now. Unfortunately, as the Russian bombardment intensifies, communication with parts of the Ukraine is becoming more fragmented. i cant imagine how worrying that is , the Russians are trying to interfere with the intrenet so that does not help . i hope and pray her relatives are safe and that she hears from them very soon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2022 18:59:33 GMT 1
One of Lily's school friends has lost contact with her relatives in the Ukraine although the last we heard is that they were in the west of Ukraine, so safe for now. Unfortunately, as the Russian bombardment intensifies, communication with parts of the Ukraine is becoming more fragmented. i cant imagine how worrying that is , the Russians are trying to interfere with the intrenet so that does not help . i hope and pray her relatives are safe and that she hears from them very soon. Thank you xxx
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 21, 2022 19:50:48 GMT 1
Seems like the UK are popular with the Ukrainian government... ...and with the Ukrainian people looking to those polls linked to above. And only today I saw a clip of a Ukrainian soldier stood next to the wreck of some Russian vehicle with what I gather was a spent NLAW thanking Britain for help provided (if the footage is on the level of course). As indicated by Reznikov, I guess the point is that the UK was one of the first countries to provide weapons (and training on how to use them) to the Ukrainian forces and before the invasion occurred. And so who knows just how important that was in stalling the Russian advance in the earlier stages of the invasion before others decided to do likewise. And from what is reported in the Times, that was very much driven by Wallace with the support of Johnson (and from what is reported, against a fair bit of pushback)... How Ben Wallace fought ‘securocrats’ to donate UK’s tank-busting weapons to UkraineAnd then in addition, there was Operation Orbital. I have no idea just how much autonomy the MOD has but I gather that would have needed the "go" from the government of that day. As you say, Johnson has his faults for sure (for one, his actions in relation to Afghanistan are once again in the news) but if elections had gone another way then you do wonder whether Operation Orbital would have been curtailed and I think its most definitely safe to say the weapons and the support the UK has provided (and continues to provide) wouldn't have been forthcoming.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 21, 2022 19:56:26 GMT 1
Amongst all the horrible news coming out of the Ukraine , this is a lovely gesture by the railway companies, i saw a clip on you tube of a young mum travelling on the Austrian railways and the conductors explained they also providing free food and hot drinks and keeping a close eye on all the refugees, i now hope that uk train companys do the same. www.euractiv.com/section/railways/news/eu-rail-companies-offer-fleeing-ukrainians-free-travel/"Passengers with a Ukrainian passport or ID card are exempt from rail ticket charges in Poland, Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, France, Belgium, and Denmark. The decision to offer free journeys was praised by the head of the EU’s transport directorate, Henrik Hololei, who dubbed it “real European solidarity in action”." My wife works in a cafe and they are providing free meals to a group of Ukrainians who come in each day to eat lunch. We think they are being housed in or by the local church. And my youngest informed me today that they have a little girl who has just joined their class and despite the language barrier, they are doing all the can to welcome her...
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 21, 2022 22:17:41 GMT 1
Amongst all the horrible news coming out of the Ukraine , this is a lovely gesture by the railway companies, i saw a clip on you tube of a young mum travelling on the Austrian railways and the conductors explained they also providing free food and hot drinks and keeping a close eye on all the refugees, i now hope that uk train companys do the same. www.euractiv.com/section/railways/news/eu-rail-companies-offer-fleeing-ukrainians-free-travel/"Passengers with a Ukrainian passport or ID card are exempt from rail ticket charges in Poland, Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, France, Belgium, and Denmark. The decision to offer free journeys was praised by the head of the EU’s transport directorate, Henrik Hololei, who dubbed it “real European solidarity in action”." My wife works in a cafe and they are providing free meals to a group of Ukrainians who come in each day to eat lunch. We think they are being housed in or by the local church. And my youngest informed me today that they have a little girl who has just joined their class and despite the language barrier, they are doing all the can to welcome her... Thanks for sharing that ,despite the horrrors of the war in Ukraine we are seeing the worst and the best of humanity
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 22, 2022 14:34:40 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Mar 22, 2022 15:45:02 GMT 1
If anything speaks to how little we've progressed in some ways since those darkest of days, it's this tragic story. Russians should be ashamed of what's being done in their name.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 22, 2022 15:50:53 GMT 1
If anything speaks to how little we've progressed in some ways since those darkest of days, it's this tragic story. Russians should be ashamed of what's being done in their name. Putin's war, not the Russian peoples' war, except for their (albeit understandable) complicity in swapping one evil regime for another one....
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Post by venceremos on Mar 22, 2022 15:55:38 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60825983So much for sanctioning the oligarchs. In truth it was always likely that the shelter of tax haven shell companies and trusts, aided and abetted by greedy lawyers and accountants and lax UK governance, would effectively render the sanctions largely token gestures. Still grotesque that we've facilitated this for so many years. I had a client years ago who emigrated to Switzerland and paid peanuts in tax there. He " didn't" own a mansion near London, a vast landed estate, a flat in London, a string of thoroughbred horses stabled in France, several hugely expensive works of art, a butler, a chauffeur and lord knows how many other staff. I didn't own any of those things either but I paid an infinitely higher amount of UK tax than him (to be clear, he paid none) and he got to enjoy all of those things as and when he liked. That's what trusts can do. And no, he didn't work to acquire any of it, he just worked to keep it all.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 22, 2022 16:43:01 GMT 1
Whilst I appreciate in the long run this may mean very little and who knows how Putin will react but that the Russian forces are not only stalled but are being pushed back this far into the conflict... I mean if true of course...
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 22, 2022 17:13:35 GMT 1
Speaking of "if true". If true, then die Mother****er. Meantime, enjoy your dinner......
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Post by northwestman on Mar 22, 2022 18:13:17 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/oligarch-alisher-usmanov-swiss-bank-arsenalOligarch linked to billions in 27 Swiss bank accounts in sister’s name. Billions of pounds linked to the Russian oligarch Alisher Usmanov and his business empire appear to have been held in secret Swiss accounts belonging to his family, an analysis of leaked documents suggests. Usmanov’s 56-year-old sister, Saodat Narzieva, appears to have been the one-time beneficial owner of at least 27 secret corporate accounts at Credit Suisse, including one that held nearly 1.9bn Swiss francs (CHF) (£1.6bn). Usmanov is subject to EU sanctions.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 22, 2022 20:10:30 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/oligarch-alisher-usmanov-swiss-bank-arsenalOligarch linked to billions in 27 Swiss bank accounts in sister’s name. Billions of pounds linked to the Russian oligarch Alisher Usmanov and his business empire appear to have been held in secret Swiss accounts belonging to his family, an analysis of leaked documents suggests. Usmanov’s 56-year-old sister, Saodat Narzieva, appears to have been the one-time beneficial owner of at least 27 secret corporate accounts at Credit Suisse, including one that held nearly 1.9bn Swiss francs (CHF) (£1.6bn). Usmanov is subject to EU sanctions. given the amount of time the oligarchs were given it is hardly a suprise that they have been able to do this, as iv said previously we need to go after the enablers who are behind hidding there money, also we should change the legislation to go after trusts and any family memebers were assests have been moved in there name. from the mail "Spokesperson for Alisher Usmanov, 68, says billionaire transferred many of his UK assets into family trusts He is linked to £48million mansion in Hampstead and 16th Century Surrey estate - said to be worth £34million UK imposed sanctions on Mr Usmanov, a metal, telecoms and media magnate, after Russia invaded Ukraine Ministers claimed Mr Usmanov, who until recently was a key Everton FC backer, had 'close links to the Kremlin' Government proudly boasted move would cut Usmanov off from 'significant UK interests including mansions' But sanctions experts are now questioning whether the Government could struggle to link properties to him"
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Post by frankwellshrews on Mar 22, 2022 21:25:49 GMT 1
Fact; president Putin's Russia has greater press freedom than b and a.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 22, 2022 21:28:28 GMT 1
Fact; president Putin's Russia has greater press freedom than b and a. B&A has more snipers than Ukraine
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 23, 2022 8:22:33 GMT 1
Fact; president Putin's Russia has greater press freedom than b and a. Pretty obvious to everyone, I would have thought..I am amazed that its taken so long for this to be realised!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2022 9:20:24 GMT 1
I find it odd that in 2017 Jeremy Corbyn was absolutely hammered for ruling out the use of nuclear weapons if he was pm, yet many are now condemning Russia for not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 23, 2022 9:50:34 GMT 1
I find it odd that in 2017 Jeremy Corbyn was absolutely hammered for ruling out the use of nuclear weapons if he was pm, yet many are now condemning Russia for not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons. zzzzzzz
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 23, 2022 9:59:54 GMT 1
I find it odd that in 2017 Jeremy Corbyn was absolutely hammered for ruling out the use of nuclear weapons if he was pm, yet many are now condemning Russia for not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons. What I find even more odd is that you appear to believe that there is any sort of equivalence ( other than, probably, in the RESULT of deploying such weapons; there is "false equivalence" and arrant stupidity. Normally, I would ignore such foolishness, but that runs the risk of allowing it to flourish. zzzzzz
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2022 10:39:26 GMT 1
I mean, what’s the point of having nuclear weapons if you’re not going to be prepared to use them?
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 23, 2022 10:54:25 GMT 1
I mean, what’s the point of having nuclear weapons if you’re not going to be prepared to use them? A guy I knew at work moved up from London. A big bloke, played Rugby, but nice as pie. He told me that when he drove through London he had something he could use as a weapon by his seat in case he was carjacked - he wouldn't have used it unless he was attacked.
Around here, at least at the time and not owning too flash a car, he didn't feel the need to. But if the "bad" people have a weapon then one way to deter them is for them to understand that the "good" people might hit back.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 23, 2022 10:54:56 GMT 1
I mean, what’s the point of having nuclear weapons if you’re not going to be prepared to use them? To deter others from using them? But ultimately if you not prepared to use them as a deterrent they stop being a deterrent.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 23, 2022 11:16:01 GMT 1
I mean, what’s the point of having nuclear weapons if you’re not going to be prepared to use them? Now THAT is a reasonable question; the short answer is, of course, no point whatsoever, but then one has to face up to the reality of NOT having a nuclear element in our defence posture. If we take as a given that a delusional, anti-democratic, heavily-weaponised regime may take it upon itself, at any time, to launch an assault upon another independent country, in order to re-draw the map for its own benefit, and without having to consider any domestic backlash (for whatever reason) then in such circumstances, we are entitled to ask of our leaders "how will you defend and protect our families and way of life?" Yes, I am well-aware of the horror of the meaning of MAD, and in the worst-case scenario, the "M" and the " d" in that acronym would be likely; the hope can only be that, with each side being aware of the other's capabilities, the "A" may be averted. The responsibility for making the right judgements is awesome, and a little above my pay-grade, thankfully.
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Post by salop27 on Mar 23, 2022 11:46:54 GMT 1
I find it odd that in 2017 Jeremy Corbyn was absolutely hammered for ruling out the use of nuclear weapons if he was pm, yet many are now condemning Russia for not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons. In 2017 Labour achieved 40% of the general election vote compared to 32.2% in 2019. The figures suggest the general public weren't overly concerned by it.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 23, 2022 15:34:07 GMT 1
Talk about pushing back and retaking territory... This would be a significant victory for the Ukrainians if the Russians are unable to relieve these forces and they have no other option but to surrender...but the logistics involved if so...
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 24, 2022 14:12:26 GMT 1
Talk about pushing back and retaking territory... This would be a significant victory for the Ukrainians if the Russians are unable to relieve these forces and they have no other option but to surrender...but the logistics involved if so... i hope it is true
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 24, 2022 14:15:13 GMT 1
If you put nuclear power to one side, this "Russian war machine" has been practically proven to be anything but a machine.
They might have numbers but their equipment and training as well as direction and strategy from above is severely lacking.
The Ukrainians are doing a tremendous job.
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