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Post by armchairfan on Mar 18, 2022 17:54:41 GMT 1
Many here have commented, directly or obliquely, on the similarities between Mr Putin and a certain jumped-up Austrian corporal: each thrived politically on a cocktail of nationalism, over-weaning arrogance and the brutal repression of any contrary opinion; let's just hope that Mr Putin goes the same way as his predecessor, preferably soon, before much more needless suffering.
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Post by severnaside on Mar 18, 2022 18:44:33 GMT 1
The problem with Russia is that its people have never known freedom of speech or the concept of democracy. the Csars who ruled for centuries were replaced by bolshevik 'cars' and they in turn were succeeded by a new 'car' (Putin)
Although it has proud heritage of art and culture, Russia is completely bereft of any viable, or accountable political system.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 18, 2022 19:02:25 GMT 1
The problem with Russia is that its people have never known freedom of speech or the concept of democracy. the Csars who ruled for centuries were replaced by bolshevik 'cars' and they in turn were succeeded by a new 'car' (Putin) Although it has proud heritage of art and culture, Russia is completely bereft of any viable, or accountable political system. I agree with that; the reason for this, as I see it, is that Russia, given its geographical size, and its multiplicity of ethnicities, is essentially ungovernable in any sort of democratic fashion: this has always been recognised and accepted within the Kremlin which is why I suggested that an eventual break-up is the main and REAL fear in Moscow, not the prospect of the spread of democracy from the west - rather, the seeping of democracy into the whole Russian landmass.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 19, 2022 12:20:22 GMT 1
I know they do propaganda to extreme in Russia, but how did a Russian senator keep a straight face when he said that "Ukraine could have attacked Russia in the future"?
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 19, 2022 12:33:40 GMT 1
I know they do propaganda to extreme in Russia, but how did a Russian senator keep a straight face when he said that "Ukraine could have attacked Russia in the future"? Possibly because we in the West simply do not grasp the extent of acute paranoia which afflicts Russia - inculcated into its citizenry from "cradle to grave"....it is so sad and needless.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 19, 2022 12:37:23 GMT 1
I know they do propaganda to extreme in Russia, but how did a Russian senator keep a straight face when he said that "Ukraine could have attacked Russia in the future"? If you keep repeating something for long enough you'll end up believing it.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 19, 2022 20:01:38 GMT 1
Boris Johnson has been criticised for comparing the struggle of Ukrainians fighting the Russian invasion to British people voting for Brexit. In his speech to the Conservative spring conference in Blackpool, Johnson said it is the “instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom”, with the Brexit vote a “famous recent example”. The comparison was condemned by Tory peer Lord Barwell, who pointed out Ukraine is seeking to join the EU. Writing on Twitter, he said: “Apart from the bit where voting in a free and fair referendum isn’t in any way comparable with risking your life to defend your country against invasion + the awkward fact the Ukrainians are fighting for the freedom to join the EU, this comparison is bang on.” Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey said the Prime Minister “is a national embarrassment”, adding: “To compare a referendum to women and children fleeing (Vladimir) Putin’s bombs is an insult to every Ukrainian. SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford said: “Boris Johnson’s comments comparing Ukraine’s life-threatening situation with Brexit was crass and distasteful, and shows just how dangerously obsessed the Tories are with Brexit.” www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/19/pms-comparison-of-ukraine-resistance-to-uk-brexit-vote-criticised-as-crass
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 20, 2022 11:07:22 GMT 1
Thought this a pretty decent assessment of the current military situation in the Ukraine. Just that at times I've found it is tad difficult to get a summary of the overall picture of what is happening and where... The Russian army is running out of momentum
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2022 11:16:33 GMT 1
Thought this a pretty decent assessment of the current military situation in the Ukraine. Just that at times I've found it is tad difficult to get a summary of the overall picture of what is happening and where... The Russian army is running out of momentumBBC breakfast time provide an informative update each morning. Sadly the Russian forces are now resorting to indiscriminate attacks on the civilian population which is sickening to see.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2022 11:21:30 GMT 1
Hypersonic missles are also now being deployed by the Russian military.
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Post by tdk on Mar 20, 2022 11:42:40 GMT 1
I know they do propaganda to extreme in Russia, but how did a Russian senator keep a straight face when he said that "Ukraine could have attacked Russia in the future"?
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Post by tdk on Mar 20, 2022 11:43:30 GMT 1
Same way Blair talked about weapons of mass destruction
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Post by Pilch on Mar 20, 2022 11:53:32 GMT 1
Hypersonic missles are also now being deployed by the Russian military. why dont we drop Ukraine a lorry load of these off ? a flattened red square might cause Putin to have a little rethink
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 20, 2022 13:09:37 GMT 1
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Post by kenwood on Mar 20, 2022 14:02:49 GMT 1
Hypersonic missles are also now being deployed by the Russian military. why dont we drop Ukraine a lorry load of these off ? a flattened red square might cause Putin to have a little rethink I think it’s because we don’t have them ! I also understand that the West doesn’t have the air defence capability to deal with Hypersonic missiles . The way this war is going Russia will have a wasteland to take back as part of Putin’s grand plan to reunify the Soviet Union . No wonder the smaller countries around the Ukraine border plus Finland are worried . I am told by someone who has friends in Finland that they are extremely concerned the madman wil be coming for them soon.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 20, 2022 14:12:18 GMT 1
why dont we drop Ukraine a lorry load of these off ? a flattened red square might cause Putin to have a little rethink I think it’s because we don’t have them ! I also understand that the West doesn’t have the air defence capability to deal with Hypersonic missiles . The way this war is going Russia will have a wasteland to take back as part of Putin’s grand plan to reunify the Soviet Union . No wonder the smaller countries around the Ukraine border plus Finland are worried . I am told by someone who has friends in Finland that they are extremely concerned the madman wil be coming for them soon. What little I know about these things is that there isn't a defence against such missiles - they have low-flying capability and travel at up to mach 5....scary! As for the (hopefully) foolish suggestion that Moscow be attacked, I am speechless; putting Mr Putin in the same ring as Vitali Klicthko does appeal however...
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Post by Pilch on Mar 20, 2022 14:33:14 GMT 1
I think it’s because we don’t have them ! I also understand that the West doesn’t have the air defence capability to deal with Hypersonic missiles . The way this war is going Russia will have a wasteland to take back as part of Putin’s grand plan to reunify the Soviet Union . No wonder the smaller countries around the Ukraine border plus Finland are worried . I am told by someone who has friends in Finland that they are extremely concerned the madman wil be coming for them soon. What little I know about these things is that there isn't a defence against such missiles - they have low-flying capability and travel at up to mach 5....scary! As for the (hopefully) foolish suggestion that Moscow be attacked, I am speechless; putting Mr Putin in the same ring as Vitali Klicthko does appeal however... I think its the king Harold in me that cant wait to get at them no matter how foolish ;-)
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 20, 2022 14:39:48 GMT 1
What little I know about these things is that there isn't a defence against such missiles - they have low-flying capability and travel at up to mach 5....scary! As for the (hopefully) foolish suggestion that Moscow be attacked, I am speechless; putting Mr Putin in the same ring as Vitali Klicthko does appeal however... I think its the king Harold in me that cant wait to get at them no matter how foolish ;-) I know what you mean, but it didn't end well for him.... It would be safer for all of us if we returned to the Medieval practice of each side nominating their "champion" to resolve their differences through a fight to the death....
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 20, 2022 15:20:23 GMT 1
www.politico.eu/article/russia-vacuum-bomb-ukraine-invasion/Okhtyrka Mayor Pavel Kuzmenko described the weapon used in the attack as a vacuum bomb. Ukrainian media have carried eyewitness video of the blast, which had a timestamp of 5:32 p.m. on Monday. In Washington, the White House said it had not independently verified the incidents. “I don’t have any confirmation of that,” said White House spokesperson Jen Psaki. “We have seen the reports. If that were true, it would potentially be a war crime.”
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Post by belfastshrew on Mar 20, 2022 22:43:13 GMT 1
I am told by someone who has friends in Finland that they are extremely concerned the madman wil be coming for them soon. Indeed it has happened before, known as the Winter War, during WW2. The conflict shares a lot of similarities to what is going on in Ukraine. Worth a look up.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 21, 2022 8:24:46 GMT 1
I am told by someone who has friends in Finland that they are extremely concerned the madman wil be coming for them soon. Indeed it has happened before, known as the Winter War, during WW2. The conflict shares a lot of similarities to what is going on in Ukraine. Worth a look up. I don't recall for sure without having a look but I'm pretty sure the Russian military came up short (of expectations anyhow) during that campaign too didn't it? Initially anyhow. I'm still very much of the mind that Putin's efforts are focused on the Ukraine and perhaps Moldova. And even if he did have ambitions beyond that, I wonder if he may have reconsider based on the global response to this invasion and also the resistance shown by the Ukrainians (which has exposed the shortcomings of the Russian armed forces...up to yet anyhow, if they did indeed expected to be making more progress than they have). I'm just not sure Russia would be in a position (both economically and militarily) to continue this any further beyond the war in Ukraine.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 21, 2022 9:53:07 GMT 1
Indeed it has happened before, known as the Winter War, during WW2. The conflict shares a lot of similarities to what is going on in Ukraine. Worth a look up. I don't recall for sure without having a look but I'm pretty sure the Russian military came up short (of expectations anyhow) during that campaign too didn't it? Initially anyhow. I'm still very much of the mind that Putin's efforts are focused on the Ukraine and perhaps Moldova. And even if he did have ambitions beyond that, I wonder if he may have reconsider based on the global response to this invasion and also the resistance shown by the Ukrainians (which has exposed the shortcomings of the Russian armed forces...up to yet anyhow, if they did indeed expected to be making more progress than they have). I'm just not sure Russia would be in a position (both economically and militarily) to continue this any further beyond the war in Ukraine. So far as the Ukraine situation is concerned, you are probably correct: stories about the stalled military convoys, the logistical failings and sheer incompetence of the Russian forces and the state of their morale, the loss of senior individuals at the front line, and about the destruction of non-military infrastructure in so many Ukrainian cities. So much is undeniable, but - and I ask this seriously - is it TRUE and ACCURATE? One thing is certainly true, and that is that Mr Putin has lost the information war: everything which you mention is as reported through the prism of the Western press, and this should be as much questioned and examined as the Kremlin line; to be frank, I find myself scoffing with derision and fury at the Russian "justification" of their "special military operation" but then, I ask myself whether I am as much subject to propaganda as the ordinary Russian. It has been said that Truth is the first casualty of war, and it has to be acknowledged that one man's "truth" is another's outrageous lie, that "truth" is not a stand-alone eternal concept, but one which changes according to one's beliefs and one's upbringing and philosophy. To that extent, it matters little who is "winning", or will win, in the post-conflict assessments, the information war: our minds are already made up, and I make no apology for stating my own position, that the Russian actions are evil, sub-human and an affront to humanity...then I hear that little voice "are you sure....?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 21, 2022 10:32:24 GMT 1
I don't recall for sure without having a look but I'm pretty sure the Russian military came up short (of expectations anyhow) during that campaign too didn't it? Initially anyhow. I'm still very much of the mind that Putin's efforts are focused on the Ukraine and perhaps Moldova. And even if he did have ambitions beyond that, I wonder if he may have reconsider based on the global response to this invasion and also the resistance shown by the Ukrainians (which has exposed the shortcomings of the Russian armed forces...up to yet anyhow, if they did indeed expected to be making more progress than they have). I'm just not sure Russia would be in a position (both economically and militarily) to continue this any further beyond the war in Ukraine. So far as the Ukraine situation is concerned, you are probably correct: stories about the stalled military convoys, the logistical failings and sheer incompetence of the Russian forces and the state of their morale, the loss of senior individuals at the front line, and about the destruction of non-military infrastructure in so many Ukrainian cities. So much is undeniable, but - and I ask this seriously - is it TRUE and ACCURATE? Yeah, for sure. I understand that. Its a mixture of wishful thinking and keeping your feet firmly on the ground. You read something which is encouraging knowing that you always need to temper your expectations. For all the news we hear about Ukrainian resistance and Russian failures at the back of your mind you know that the latter are still very much the stronger force and are still making headway albeit slower than perhaps they expected. And of course that the population of the Ukraine are having to pay a heavy price as a result. I guess an example of that is that it was hoped (by me at any rate) that perhaps the resistance shown might well have changed the end game for Putin and forced him to the negotiation table but now we have commentators suggesting that this is purely for show and to buy Putin time to reinforce and consolidate his forces. That despite things perhaps not going as they expected, they still mean to push on and on...
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 21, 2022 11:35:54 GMT 1
So far as the Ukraine situation is concerned, you are probably correct: stories about the stalled military convoys, the logistical failings and sheer incompetence of the Russian forces and the state of their morale, the loss of senior individuals at the front line, and about the destruction of non-military infrastructure in so many Ukrainian cities. So much is undeniable, but - and I ask this seriously - is it TRUE and ACCURATE? Yeah, for sure. I understand that. Its a mixture of wishful thinking and keeping your feet firmly on the ground. You read something which is encouraging knowing that you always need to temper your expectations. For all the news we hear about Ukrainian resistance and Russian failures at the back of your mind you know that the latter are still very much the stronger force and are still making headway albeit slower than perhaps they expected. And of course that the population of the Ukraine are having to pay a heavy price as a result. I guess an example of that is that it was hoped (by me at any rate) that perhaps the resistance shown might well have changed the end game for Putin and forced him to the negotiation table but now we have commentators suggesting that this is purely for show and to buy Putin time to reinforce and consolidate his forces. That despite things perhaps not going as they expected, they still mean to push on and on... I do agree with your first paragraph, especially the reference to "wishful thinking". The second paragraph raises what I believe to be a crucial question: how can "the West" so manage, insofar as war can be "managed" effectively at all, the situation as to provide Mr Putin with an acceptable non-military escape route; if we don't succeed in that, I really do fear the worst, as the reactions to ongoing military failings of people such as him are likely to become even more desperate, if failings there are: he may be tempted to "reinforce failure" leading to the unthinkable. I think that, notwithstanding the understandable pleas from the Ukrainian leadership, we are approaching the time for cool, rational thinking from the West, and a degree of finesse and quality diplomacy, but have no clue as to what form that may take.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 21, 2022 11:49:48 GMT 1
Yeah, for sure. I understand that. Its a mixture of wishful thinking and keeping your feet firmly on the ground. You read something which is encouraging knowing that you always need to temper your expectations. For all the news we hear about Ukrainian resistance and Russian failures at the back of your mind you know that the latter are still very much the stronger force and are still making headway albeit slower than perhaps they expected. And of course that the population of the Ukraine are having to pay a heavy price as a result. I guess an example of that is that it was hoped (by me at any rate) that perhaps the resistance shown might well have changed the end game for Putin and forced him to the negotiation table but now we have commentators suggesting that this is purely for show and to buy Putin time to reinforce and consolidate his forces. That despite things perhaps not going as they expected, they still mean to push on and on... The second paragraph raises what I believe to be a crucial question: how can "the West" so manage, insofar as war can be "managed" effectively at all, the situation as to provide Mr Putin with an acceptable non-military escape route; if we don't succeed in that, I really do fear the worst, as the reactions to ongoing military failings of people such as him are likely to become even more desperate, if failings there are: he may be tempted to "reinforce failure" leading to the unthinkable. I think that, notwithstanding the understandable pleas from the Ukrainian leadership, we are approaching the time for cool, rational thinking from the West, and a degree of finesse and quality diplomacy, but have no clue as to what form that may take. I suppose on that front the fact that he able control the narrative at home may mean that he is in a position to frame any resolution of the war (negotiated or otherwise) as some sort of victory. But anyhow, unfortunately at the minute that looks some time off...
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 21, 2022 17:20:49 GMT 1
Amongst all the horrible news coming out of the Ukraine , this is a lovely gesture by the railway companies, i saw a clip on you tube of a young mum travelling on the Austrian railways and the conductors explained they also providing free food and hot drinks and keeping a close eye on all the refugees, i now hope that uk train companys do the same. www.euractiv.com/section/railways/news/eu-rail-companies-offer-fleeing-ukrainians-free-travel/"Passengers with a Ukrainian passport or ID card are exempt from rail ticket charges in Poland, Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, France, Belgium, and Denmark. The decision to offer free journeys was praised by the head of the EU’s transport directorate, Henrik Hololei, who dubbed it “real European solidarity in action”."
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Mar 21, 2022 17:45:08 GMT 1
Sorry to kill the mood after he last post but… news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-footage-shows-russian-troops-appearing-to-fire-on-peaceful-protesters-in-kherson-12572208Russian troops appear to have opened fire on a peaceful demonstration in Kherson, with CCTV footage showing protesters fleeing as military vehicles advance. The southern port city was seized early on in the nearly month-long war and Moscow claims it controls the Kherson region. Journalist Max Seddon from the Financial Times tweeted: "Russian troops opened fire on a peaceful crowd in Kherson, where regular protests have gone on since they captured it. "Also seem to have used flash-bang grenades. There are reports (and videos) of wounded civilians." And the Wall Street Journal's Yaroslav Trofimov tweeted a video purportedly showing people injured by the shots. On Sunday, dozens of protesters, some wrapped in Ukraine's blue-and-yellow flag, marched along Ushakova Avenue in Kherson and chanted "Go home" in Russian at two military vehicles with Russian markings.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 21, 2022 18:01:43 GMT 1
In a news conference from the UK's Ministry of Defence, Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov has taken a dig at the response of some Western nations.
Praising the UK government, he said: "Your role is special and your courage and your spirit are in stark contrast to passivity of some other countries."
The UK was the first to provide "serious" weapons to Ukraine, he said.
Seems like the UK are popular with the Ukrainian government, much more so than some in the west. Boris is a clown at times, but he's come into his own with regards to Ukraine.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 21, 2022 18:18:53 GMT 1
Sorry to kill the mood after he last post but… news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-footage-shows-russian-troops-appearing-to-fire-on-peaceful-protesters-in-kherson-12572208Russian troops appear to have opened fire on a peaceful demonstration in Kherson, with CCTV footage showing protesters fleeing as military vehicles advance. The southern port city was seized early on in the nearly month-long war and Moscow claims it controls the Kherson region. Journalist Max Seddon from the Financial Times tweeted: "Russian troops opened fire on a peaceful crowd in Kherson, where regular protests have gone on since they captured it. "Also seem to have used flash-bang grenades. There are reports (and videos) of wounded civilians." And the Wall Street Journal's Yaroslav Trofimov tweeted a video purportedly showing people injured by the shots. On Sunday, dozens of protesters, some wrapped in Ukraine's blue-and-yellow flag, marched along Ushakova Avenue in Kherson and chanted "Go home" in Russian at two military vehicles with Russian markings. we cant avoid the deadful reality of what is happening , my vicar has links to the ukraine and we have weekly pray for ukraine season , the vicar gets updates from her friends and the horrors are even worse than the media reports.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Mar 21, 2022 18:45:51 GMT 1
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