|
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 13, 2021 22:06:35 GMT 1
Hope you've cooled off a bit and are now able to engage in a more constructive way. What do you disagree with, specifically? My citation of historical precedent or my view that kicking and punching those we disagree with is wrong. In a democratic country where people have the right to protest (peacefully) without needlessly and deliberately disrupting the lives of their fellow citizens, to the extent of blocking ambulances, then in my opinion they forgo their right to be treated in a civil manner. If those drivers trying to go about their lawful business, take matters into their own hands and in the process, some of these irresponsible idiots happen to get a little roughed up, then I applaud it. The use of violence, or direct action is not therefore because people necessarily disagree with the idea behind the protest, only the method of protesting. This is a point which you seem unable to grasp. Absolutely spot on. It's been needed for many days now, hopefully it will start to filter through. These w****rs are just taking the peee now and need sorting out.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 13, 2021 22:26:54 GMT 1
In a democratic country where people have the right to protest (peacefully) without needlessly and deliberately disrupting the lives of their fellow citizens, to the extent of blocking ambulances, then in my opinion they forgo their right to be treated in a civil manner. If those drivers trying to go about their lawful business, take matters into their own hands and in the process, some of these irresponsible idiots happen to get a little roughed up, then I applaud it. The use of violence, or direct action is not therefore because people necessarily disagree with the idea behind the protest, only the method of protesting. This is a point which you seem unable to grasp. Absolutely spot on. It's been needed for many days now, hopefully it will start to filter through. These w****rs are just taking the peee now and need sorting out. Go on then, be the first to "sort them out".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 22:41:54 GMT 1
Strikes me that you can have your little punishment beating w*** fantasy, or you can have your 'lawful business' high horse.
But you can't have both!
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Oct 14, 2021 9:15:28 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property.
Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed.
The country is backwards in protecting criminals first.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 9:53:26 GMT 1
At times I feel sorry for the police in this country because they can't win. If they go in heavy handed they are criticised, there will be talk of police brutality, living in a police state, the police need to modernise etc. And then alternatively if they try and go 'softly softly' & engage with different groups, then they are accused of being soft, woke, virtue signallers etc. Personally I would love to know what the police on the ground are being told with regard to these protests, I suspect there are plenty of them who would love to be more 'hands on' but are being held back because the media is watching and unfortunately the way the media works is the same media who are criticising the police now would then criticise/question the police if they did get more heavy handed. That is the way the media works, well certainly in this country.
On a completely childish point and maybe it's just me but the one thing that you do have to laugh at is the endless videos of policeman and general public dragging people off the road, then going back to drag someone else off but turning round to see the first person they dragged off is now back lying in the road.
|
|
|
Post by Dancin on Oct 14, 2021 10:12:07 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. We have case locally to us where two burglars were caught breaking into a local farm shed. The sons of the farmer caught one of them and gave him a clout and sat him until the Police arrived. He's now being done for assault as the burglar has claimed excessive force?!
|
|
|
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 14, 2021 10:19:08 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. We have case locally to us where two burglars were caught breaking into a local farm shed. The sons of the farmer caught one of them and gave him a clout and sat him until the Police arrived. He's now being done for assault as the burglar has claimed excessive force?! Doesnt surprise me in this country. Let them try it in some of the less 'civilised' countries in the world and see what they get.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Oct 14, 2021 10:32:46 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. We have case locally to us where two burglars were caught breaking into a local farm shed. The sons of the farmer caught one of them and gave him a clout and sat him until the Police arrived. He's now being done for assault as the burglar has claimed excessive force?! And that's the issue right then. Once you break into somebody's property, anything short of murder is reasonable in my mind. You don't know if they're armed, tooled up and what harm they could be to your family. I wouldn't hesitate.
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on Oct 14, 2021 10:38:48 GMT 1
I remember some years back that a burglar broke into the home of Big Duncan Ferguson, the Everton striker and now assistant coach. No shrinking violet on the pitch, 'Big Dunc' wasn't slow in confronting the intruder, whom I believe sustained a broken arm in the process of being ejected from Ferguson's property.
I don't think the burglar ever went back there again.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 14, 2021 10:39:58 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. We have case locally to us where two burglars were caught breaking into a local farm shed. The sons of the farmer caught one of them and gave him a clout and sat him until the Police arrived. He's now being done for assault as the burglar has claimed excessive force?! There's a correct level of protection of your property which I am sure we all know. Burglars can claim "excessive force", but who's taking any notice of them?
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Oct 14, 2021 10:45:31 GMT 1
We have case locally to us where two burglars were caught breaking into a local farm shed. The sons of the farmer caught one of them and gave him a clout and sat him until the Police arrived. He's now being done for assault as the burglar has claimed excessive force?! There's a correct level of protection of your property which I am sure we all know. Burglars can claim "excessive force", but who's taking any notice of them? There's a correct way to behave, and that's not to burgle others. Once you do all rights should go out the window.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2021 10:52:58 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10089761/Action-FINALLY-taken-jail-dozen-Insulate-Britain-eco-zealots.htmlMore than a dozen Insulate Britain activists will finally face court action - and possible jail - within days, the Mail understands. Just over a month after the first roadblocks brought chaos to the motorways, officials are set to ask judges to take action against the eco-zealots. There has been increasing dismay among ministers about the slow pace of action at National Highways, previously known as Highways England, and with police who have made arrests only to release protesters hours later.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 14, 2021 10:55:09 GMT 1
There's a correct level of protection of your property which I am sure we all know. Burglars can claim "excessive force", but who's taking any notice of them? There's a correct way to behave, and that's not to burgle others. Once you do all rights should go out the window. The proviso is that the burgled, a solid responsible citizen, has to live with those actions against a burglar for the rest of their lives. Forget the law, could you live with yourself if you had maimed someone breaking into your shed, rather than actually posing a physical threat to you and your family?
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 14, 2021 11:09:10 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10089761/Action-FINALLY-taken-jail-dozen-Insulate-Britain-eco-zealots.htmlMore than a dozen Insulate Britain activists will finally face court action - and possible jail - within days, the Mail understands. Just over a month after the first roadblocks brought chaos to the motorways, officials are set to ask judges to take action against the eco-zealots. There has been increasing dismay among ministers about the slow pace of action at National Highways, previously known as Highways England, and with police who have made arrests only to release protesters hours later. All set up for court cases and sentences at the same time as the climate conference. Should have put the conference online with the excuse of saving air miles. Boris seems to have fallen under Greta's spell.
Boris doesn't seem to think things through: Going head long into "Get Brexit done", without the right changeover arrangements in place. Now going headlong into "sustainable energy" without the backstops in place for the changeover. Stopping oil and gas exploration and leaving us open to other countries political power - so far the Russians and the French, who are threatening to limit elecricity suppied to the channel islands if they don't get the fishing deal they want.
It's naive to think we are going to be all converted over to Hydrogen and free of gas in the sort of timescales being considred. Boris seems to be well on the way to making Britain a third world country. We'll be like the Russians used to be, queueing up for potatoes, before he's finished.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2021 11:21:08 GMT 1
There's a correct way to behave, and that's not to burgle others. Once you do all rights should go out the window. The proviso is that the burgled, a solid responsible citizen, has to live with those actions against a burglar for the rest of their lives. Forget the law, could you live with yourself if you had maimed someone breaking into your shed, rather than actually posing a physical threat to you and your family? There's an actual case on this! 83-year-old Ted Newberry, of Ilkeston , was ordered to pay more than £4,000 damages after firing a 12-bore shotgun at a man who broke into his allotment. Ted, a retired hospital porter, was fed up with vandals destroying his allotment so decided to sleep in his allotment shed to catch the culprits red-handed. But instead of finding vandals during his vigil in 1988, he realised the noise he could hear outside was that of would-be burglars trying to break into the shed. So Mr Newberry, fearing for his life, took up a 12-bore shotgun and fired what he said was intended to be a warning shot through a hole in the shed door. The shot hit one of the intruders, then 22, who was left with 50 shotgun pellets embedded in his body. A jury later cleared Mr Newberry of deliberately injuring anyone because he acted in self-defence. However, Mr Newberry was told he had been negligent when he fired through the shed door and should have turned on the light or shouted instead. Derbyshire Live. Then of course there is the well known case of Tony Martin, still being targeted by thieves - 20 years after he shot two burglars at his Norfolk farm. www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/tony-martin-20-years-after-he-shot-two-burglars-1444496
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 12:21:52 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. Ironically you also agree with breaking the law if you feel circumstances are such that you are left with no choice. Maybe you have more in common with IB than you care to admit. How are you for Bostik?
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Oct 14, 2021 12:26:59 GMT 1
The proviso is that the burgled, a solid responsible citizen, has to live with those actions against a burglar for the rest of their lives. Forget the law, could you live with yourself if you had maimed someone breaking into your shed, rather than actually posing a physical threat to you and your family? There's an actual case on this! 83-year-old Ted Newbery, of Ilkeston , was ordered to pay more than £4,000 damages after firing a 12-bore shotgun at a man who broke into his allotment. Ted, a retired hospital porter, was fed up with vandals destroying his allotment so decided to sleep in his allotment shed to catch the culprits red-handed. But instead of finding vandals during his vigil in 1988, he realised the noise he could hear outside was that of would-be burglars trying to break into the shed. So Mr Newberry, fearing for his life, took up a 12-bore shotgun and fired what he said was intended to be a warning shot through a hole in the shed door. The shot hit one of the intruders, then 22, who was left with 50 shotgun pellets embedded in his body. A jury later cleared Mr Newberry of deliberately injuring anyone because he acted in self-defence. However, Mr Newberry was told he had been negligent when he fired through the shed door and should have turned on the light or shouted instead. Derbyshire Live. Then of course there is the well known case of Tony Martin, still being targeted by thieves - 20 years after he shot two burglars at his Norfolk farm. www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/tony-martin-20-years-after-he-shot-two-burglars-1444496I hope they set up a GoFundMe for the gent. Fair play to him.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2021 12:31:57 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 14, 2021 12:33:01 GMT 1
There's an actual case on this! 83-year-old Ted Newbery, of Ilkeston , was ordered to pay more than £4,000 damages after firing a 12-bore shotgun at a man who broke into his allotment. Ted, a retired hospital porter, was fed up with vandals destroying his allotment so decided to sleep in his allotment shed to catch the culprits red-handed. But instead of finding vandals during his vigil in 1988, he realised the noise he could hear outside was that of would-be burglars trying to break into the shed. So Mr Newberry, fearing for his life, took up a 12-bore shotgun and fired what he said was intended to be a warning shot through a hole in the shed door. The shot hit one of the intruders, then 22, who was left with 50 shotgun pellets embedded in his body. A jury later cleared Mr Newberry of deliberately injuring anyone because he acted in self-defence. However, Mr Newberry was told he had been negligent when he fired through the shed door and should have turned on the light or shouted instead. Derbyshire Live. Then of course there is the well known case of Tony Martin, still being targeted by thieves - 20 years after he shot two burglars at his Norfolk farm. www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/tony-martin-20-years-after-he-shot-two-burglars-1444496I hope they set up a GoFundMe for the gent. Fair play to him. Should he not have shouted "I've got a shotgun and I'm going to fire it"?
Cleared of deliberately injuring anyone because pf self defence - that sounds about right to me.
|
|
|
Post by armchairfan on Oct 14, 2021 12:39:28 GMT 1
It's the same argument I have with burglars; once they break into your home they should lose every right they have. You should be free to paste them about as much as you wish until they're off your property. Same with these morons, once they decide to unlawfully disrupt the lives of law-abiding others they should be forcibly removed. The country is backwards in protecting criminals first. Ironically you also agree with breaking the law if you feel circumstances are such that you are left with no choice. Maybe you have more in common with IB than you care to admit. How are you for Bostik? For once, you and I are roughly in agreement - its why I said earlier that I feel uncomfortable about the types of " direction action" being suggested against the protesters. The law, if it is to work at all, should apply to each of us....when it doesn’t, anarchy results - again, something I mentioned before.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2021 12:48:20 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2021 16:02:26 GMT 1
Are we reaching a tipping point? Are we at the stage when ordinary people, sick of being taken for mugs by Insulate Britain criminals and no-touch policing, have run out of patience? Whisper it, but it looks likely.
When these blockades started a few weeks ago, people sat patiently, dutifully in cars and lorries on the M25, for hours on end. Never mind the missed hospital appointments, job interviews, funerals, flights, business meetings and gatherings with loved ones. People sat, waited and assumed that the criminals would be duly punished for causing economic carnage and mass inconvenience.
Except they never were punished. So they returned, with impunity, time and time again. Laughing at our weakness, they realised that they could bring more major arteries to a standstill and get away scot-free. They were right. But now? Things are changing. The public has grown sick of being taken for a ride by the blockaders and the police, whose inaction would be laughable were it not intolerable.
So, yesterday, more blockaders were dragged from Junction 31 of the M25, not by the police of course, but by a few men determined to get on with their lives. It wasn't vigilantism – nobody’s meting out justice – but a determination to uphold the law. And what’s the alternative? For the fifth week running, these gangs of 'protestors' have brazenly, repeatedly blocked our busiest roads. No sooner have they been given a cup of tea down at the police station than they’re at it again.
It's a shame that this is where we find ourselves. The insidious message sent out by weak governance on this issue in recent weeks was that crime pays. You’ll get all the publicity you could ask for. You’ll rarely be brought up in front of a judge or jury, let alone go to prison. You’ll get lefty, lofty journalists singing your praises. You’ll get the government hopping desperate to fulfil your demands.
Never mind that Britain is running out of energy like it’s 1973. Just appease this tiny group by doubling down on net-zero, perhaps to offset the carbon footprint of the world’s great and good descending on Glasgow for COP26 in their jumbo planes. Better to let crime pay than to undermine our boast that we have the world’s greatest, greenest policies.
Robert Taylor. Daily Telegraph.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 14, 2021 16:25:02 GMT 1
Apparently IB are to suspend blocking roads for a couple of weeks, until the 25th October anyhow. But said they'll be back to it if nothing has changed come that date.
Is it ski season already?
|
|
|
Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 14, 2021 16:34:25 GMT 1
If a society can't cope with some local traffic disruption without resorting to violence (or wishing it on others of course, that's the easy way), its chances of coping with the disruption caused by the developing consequences of global heating are negligible at best. Never mind, we can carry on kidding ourselves that putting out the recycling every fortnight will do the job. I used to think it might be our great grandchildren who'd be cursing the failure of our generations to take the problem seriously, but it seems more likely to be our grandchildren or perhaps even our children. unfortently the pandemic has shown countrys dont unite to solve a problem they look to there own intrests and whilst this is human nature, we cant keep on kicking the can down the road about global warming,if we had put in the measuers 30 years ago that al Gore was trying implement through in the Kyoto Protocol,we could have been looking at a very different scenario. instead we have had 30 years of empty promises and fudges.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Oct 14, 2021 17:22:49 GMT 1
Apparently IB are to suspend blocking roads for a couple of weeks, until the 25th October anyhow. But said they'll be back to it if nothing has changed come that date. Is it ski season already? Well as I’v said before if they like to get off their backsides and go and insulate a few houses then things will have changed. Layabouts.
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on Oct 14, 2021 17:25:39 GMT 1
No surprise that Insulate Britain have suspended their road block campaign.
Wonder, if it's anything to do with them now possibly being sent to prison.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Oct 14, 2021 17:42:06 GMT 1
Or is the weather forecast bad?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 18:53:21 GMT 1
Mark Docherty from WMAS says “not unusual for a patient to be in the back of an ambulance for 7 hours or more. This is not acceptable” He adds ambulances can’t leave the hospital once stuck in a queue. He says one patient was 1.5 miles from RSH and died waiting for an ambulance
And not a protester in sight. Let’s here the outrage chaps👍
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 14, 2021 20:48:27 GMT 1
Apparently IB are to suspend blocking roads for a couple of weeks, until the 25th October anyhow. But said they'll be back to it if nothing has changed come that date. Is it ski season already? Planning what to do at the climate summit no doubt.
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Oct 14, 2021 21:30:49 GMT 1
Don’t worry, Priti Patel is on the case, just like with those crossing the channel.
|
|