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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Apr 18, 2021 21:52:12 GMT 1
So is the idea that this bunch are going to play themselves over and over? Surely get boring pretty quick? I'm bored of it already.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 22:08:59 GMT 1
It’s a vile prospect. We’ll be seeing many more FC United of Manchester’s if this happens. I won’t be any part of it personally if it goes ahead.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Apr 18, 2021 22:42:15 GMT 1
Wouldn’t it be funny if TV companies aren’t interesting in broadcasting this greed fest.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 18, 2021 23:09:00 GMT 1
Wouldn’t it be funny if TV companies aren’t interesting in broadcasting this greed fest. Don’t kid yourself , They are likely behind it and the reality will be the premier will become what the championship is with a knock on down the leagues , and even bigger knock on effects for the cup comps
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Post by welshdan on Apr 18, 2021 23:47:39 GMT 1
Watch sky’s position change if they get the tv rights Going to be interesting watching the backlash to this. If Premier league kicks out those 6 teams tv money would plummet but they have to do something. Basically looks like aim to replace champions league.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 18, 2021 23:56:41 GMT 1
So is the idea that this bunch are going to play themselves over and over? Surely get boring pretty quick? You'd think that but the popularity of the Champions League is enduring, the latter stages of which tend to be the same faces over and over. If the various leagues play this right it could actually be a net benefit but doubtlessly they will just roll over and let these guys have whatever cut of the TV rights they want to stay. That's right. More money will be thrown at them to persuade them to stay.
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Post by salop27 on Apr 19, 2021 0:07:38 GMT 1
This would not make the game anymore s**te then VAR is. This kind of proposal has been doing the rounds for ages. If done properly it could be a good thing,ie,the top players would play significantly less games a season. Make the rules that you can only play in the elite super league or your domestic league/cups. The big six English teams would need more players so maybe more chance for homegrown talent. Who knows,probably be a storm in a tea cup with the end result being the big clubs getting more money from the TV cash and not mentioning it for another five years.
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Shrewsfan1985
The Loggerheads
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My first team is..: Shrewsbury
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Post by Shrewsfan1985 on Apr 19, 2021 0:23:31 GMT 1
Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham are among 12 clubs who have agreed to join a new European Super League (ESL). In a seismic move for European football, the Premier League clubs will join AC Milan, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Real Madrid. The ESL said the founding clubs had agreed to establish a "new midweek competition" with teams continuing to "compete in their respective national leagues". It says the inaugural season "is intended to commence as soon as practicable" and "anticipated that a further three clubs will join" the breakaway. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Uefa and the Premier League condemned the move when news of it broke on Sunday. World governing body Fifa has previously said it would not recognise such a competition and any players involved in it could be denied the chance to play at a World Cup. Uefa reiterated this warning on Sunday when it said players involved would be banned from all other competitions at domestic, European or world level and could be prevented from representing their national teams. After the Super League was announced, Fifa expressed its " disapproval" of the proposed competition and called on "all parties involved in heated discussions to engage in calm, constructive and balanced dialogue for the good of the game". In a statement, the ESL said: "Going forward, the founding clubs look forward to holding discussions with Uefa and Fifa to work together in partnership to deliver the best outcomes for the new league and for football as a whole. Why now? There were talks in October over a new £4.6bn competition that would involve replacing the Champions League. Uefa had hoped the plans for a new 36-team Champions League would head off the formation of a Super League. The Champions League reforms are set to be confirmed on Monday. However, the 12 sides involved in the Super League do not think the reforms go far enough. They said the global pandemic has "accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model". "In recent months, extensive dialogue has taken place with football stakeholders regarding the future format of European competitions," they added. "The founding clubs believe the solutions proposed following these talks do not solve fundamental issues, including the need to provide higher-quality matches and additional financial resources for the overall football pyramid." Manchester United co-chairman Joel Glazer will be a vice-chairman of the Super League. He said: "By bringing together the world's greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid." What is the proposed format? The league will have 20 teams - the 12 founding members plus the three unnamed clubs they expect to join soon and five sides who qualify annually according to their domestic achievements. It will start in August, with midweek fixtures, and the clubs will be split into two groups of 10, who play each other home and away. The top three in each group qualify for the quarter-finals, with the teams in fourth and fifth playing a two-legged play-off for the two remaining spots. From then, on it will have the same two-leg knockout format used in the Champions League before a single-leg final in May at neutral venue. What has been the reaction? Essentially, widespread condemnation from anyone not involved in the proposed league. That opposition has even gone to the highest level in some countries, with Prime Minister Boris Johnson saying the plans will be "very damaging for football" and that the UK government supports the sport's authorities "in taking action". France's President Emmanuel Macron added that he "welcomes the position of French clubs to refuse to participate" in a European Super League "that threatens the principle of solidarity and sporting merit". Within the game, Uefa released a joint statement with England's Football Association, the Premier League, the Spanish Football Federation, La Liga and the Italian Football Federation, as well as Serie A, saying they will "remain united" in trying to stop the breakaway, using both judicial and sporting measures if required. The European Clubs' Association (ECA), which represents Europe's clubs, also says it would be "strongly opposed" to a "closed super league model", while the Football Supporters' Association said the plans were "motivated by nothing but cynical greed". Television pundits have also had their say, with former Manchester United captain Gary Neville saying on Sky Sports he is "absolutely disgusted" by the plans and suggesting the clubs should be docked points, while former team-mate Rio Ferdinand said on BT Sport that the proposals will hurt fans the most and that supporters are "not being considered". www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56795811
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Post by martinshrew on Apr 19, 2021 0:47:07 GMT 1
Who is financing the £3,000,000,000 each of the 12 founder members are getting?
The fact the either Spurs or Arsenal even class themselves as decent football sides is hilarious, Spurs haven't won anything for decades. Arsenal are 9th and going backwards.
The whole thing absolutely stinks, it's vile.
Hopefully though the 6 all **** off and take VAR, taking the knee and the tourists with them and the rest of us can all get back to a proper game.
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Post by vladimir on Apr 19, 2021 1:28:05 GMT 1
If its being used as a bargaining chip then call their bluff.
If its not then **** em. Immediately expel them from all domestic league and cup competitions.
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Post by Dale on Apr 19, 2021 5:57:31 GMT 1
Who is financing the £3,000,000,000 each of the 12 founder members are getting? The fact the either Spurs or Arsenal even class themselves as decent football sides is hilarious, Spurs haven't won anything for decades. Arsenal are 9th and going backwards. If PSG, Bayern or Dortmund decided they wanted to become part of this then Spurs or Arsenal would be nowhere near it, but fortunately those three clubs have a backbone, in particular German clubs who have a very good attitude when it comes to treating their fans properly, although I’m a little surprised PSG have resisted the call so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 6:37:07 GMT 1
You'd think that but the popularity of the Champions League is enduring, the latter stages of which tend to be the same faces over and over. If the various leagues play this right it could actually be a net benefit but doubtlessly they will just roll over and let these guys have whatever cut of the TV rights they want to stay. That's right. More money will be thrown at them to persuade them to stay. I've seen a few people/pundits saying the same thing this morning, it's a bargaining tool and one which will be used repeatedly. I just hope fans never forget that their clubs signed up to it. Obviously it is a disgrace but one thing that makes me laugh is all this talk about football belongs to the supporters, how this risks it, it's all about greed etc. That ship has sailed a long time ago, well 1992 in fact.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Apr 19, 2021 7:07:03 GMT 1
They should start by awarding the FA Cup to Leicester, and cancelling the League Cup final due next weekend.
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Post by welshdan on Apr 19, 2021 7:24:29 GMT 1
Who is financing the £3,000,000,000 each of the 12 founder members are getting? The fact the either Spurs or Arsenal even class themselves as decent football sides is hilarious, Spurs haven't won anything for decades. Arsenal are 9th and going backwards. If PSG, Bayern or Dortmund decided they wanted to become part of this then Spurs or Arsenal would be nowhere near it, but fortunately those three clubs have a backbone, in particular German clubs who have a very good attitude when it comes to treating their fans properly, although I’m a little surprised PSG have resisted the call so far. As I understand it they wanted the current 12 plus PSG, Bayern and Dortmund to make the 15. With 5 others invited annually. Depending how they picked the “other 5” the list doesn’t look that different to the last 16 of the champions league every year for the last 20 years... The issue is the knock on effect to leagues and cups in the respective leagues
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 19, 2021 7:45:44 GMT 1
I suggest we name this league the English Border League EBL for short English Birder Football - EBF or is that title used by someone already?
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Post by armchairfan on Apr 19, 2021 8:11:07 GMT 1
Not so sure about point deductions and the like but I think he has it right here... If they go, and it looks like they are ready to do so, then the leagues and UEFA need to stand their ground and expel them from domestic and UEFA competitions. That is a must. There is no way they should be able to compete in whatever league or cup competition they are currently participating in. For one thing, with the money they will make from this they would have a huge financial advantage over others...even more so than they enjoy now. It would be crazy. No idea what PSG will do but you just get the feeling that Bayern won't be joining this. I think the structure of football here in Germany would see that blocked (even if they did want to join...which I doubt). It will be interesting to see what happens for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 8:15:36 GMT 1
Half these clubs are skint.
I'm wondering if this SL idea is being used as a bargaining chip for the new CL deal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 8:22:48 GMT 1
If its being used as a bargaining chip then call their bluff. If its not then **** em. Immediately expel them from all domestic league and cup competitions. Can see FC united of Manchester getting a few fans and a few other the others will get together to make FC of Liverpool etc The Fans can vote to
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 8:27:07 GMT 1
Half these clubs are skint. I'm wondering if this SL idea is being used as a bargaining chip for the new CL deal. Yes on both counts. David Bernstein was on the radio this morning saying the likes of Barca & Madrid have huge debts and at least one of the English clubs has debts approaching £1 billion. And below is taken from the BBC, ultimately they want more money for the CL, although its apparently about more high quality football and supporting the overall football pyramid, there's nothing like a breakaway league to show your support. There were talks in October, involving Wall Street bank JP Morgan, over a new £4.6bn competition that would replace the Champions League.
Uefa had hoped the plans for a new 36-team Champions League - with reforms set to be confirmed on Monday - would head off the formation of a Super League.
However, the 12 sides involved in the Super League do not think the reforms go far enough.
They said the global pandemic had "accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model".
"In recent months, extensive dialogue has taken place with football stakeholders regarding the future format of European competitions," they added.
"The founding clubs believe the solutions proposed following these talks do not solve fundamental issues, including the need to provide higher-quality matches and additional financial resources for the overall football pyramid."
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Post by armchairfan on Apr 19, 2021 8:31:19 GMT 1
Not so sure about point deductions and the like but I think he has it right here... If they go, and it looks like they are ready to do so, then the leagues and UEFA need to stand their ground and expel them from domestic and UEFA competitions. That is a must. There is no way they should be able to compete in whatever league or cup competition they are currently participating in. For one thing, with the money they will make from this they would have a huge financial advantage over others...even more so than they enjoy now. It would be crazy. No idea what PSG will do but you just get the feeling that Bayern won't be joining this. I think the structure of football here in Germany would see that blocked (even if they did want to join...which I doubt). It will be interesting to see what happens for sure. I am not quite so sure, myself, that they are "ready to go"; this whole matter has been bubbling just beneath the surface for some years, and the timing may just be a negotiating tactic, in order to exert pressure on the Governing Bodies, as well as being a response to the financial damage caused by Covid. Whilst not a response to players remuneration (obviously) this development does have similarities with Mr Packer's activities and WSC back in the day. There are all sorts of implications for the game in general, too numerous to discuss, and until all the parties have made their positions clear, or until they have talked to each other (yelled?) we are not in a position to consider those ramifications. As an aside, I must say that I like the idea of a "Marches Football League"....calling such a project the "English Border League" might provoke accusations of "overtly racism" lol
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electrum
Midland League Division Two
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Post by electrum on Apr 19, 2021 8:38:30 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 8:46:54 GMT 1
Half these clubs are skint. I'm wondering if this SL idea is being used as a bargaining chip for the new CL deal. Yes on both counts. David Bernstein was on the radio this morning saying the likes of Barca & Madrid have huge debts and at least one of the English clubs has debts approaching £1 billion. And below is taken from the BBC, ultimately they want more money for the CL, although its apparently about more high quality football and supporting the overall football pyramid, there's nothing like a breakaway league to show your support. There were talks in October, involving Wall Street bank JP Morgan, over a new £4.6bn competition that would replace the Champions League.
Uefa had hoped the plans for a new 36-team Champions League - with reforms set to be confirmed on Monday - would head off the formation of a Super League.
However, the 12 sides involved in the Super League do not think the reforms go far enough.
They said the global pandemic had "accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model".
"In recent months, extensive dialogue has taken place with football stakeholders regarding the future format of European competitions," they added.
"The founding clubs believe the solutions proposed following these talks do not solve fundamental issues, including the need to provide higher-quality matches and additional financial resources for the overall football pyramid."Thanks for that. I must admit, I've only got half an eye on this, because I really don't care what the *ahem* big 6 get up to. Maybe I should care more, I don't know.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 19, 2021 8:51:19 GMT 1
It is worrying but perhaps if they go (and good riddance) it will give us a chance to reform our leagues and start something new more akin to football as a chance for people to do their best.
The only thing that will affect us is if finance doesn’t trickle down which will be a blow.
We know from our own experience that at least one of these clubs doesn’t give a toss about fans so no change there.
These clubs already don’t take domestic competitions seriously by not playing their first team. Sometimes even their managers can’t be bothered to turn up for games.
With their foreign owners, foreign managers and foreign players they have no interest in us and I am glad to return the compliment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 8:54:23 GMT 1
One word to sum up this "competition"...
GREED
☹☹☹
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Post by neilsalop on Apr 19, 2021 8:57:40 GMT 1
Simply let them go, it would open up the closed shop that only Leicester and Blackburn have troubled in the last 30 years.
There will have to be some domestic sanctions though:
No domestic league or cup competitions.
No players allowed to be picked for their country.
A 3 year domestic ban on all players that spend any time playing in the ESL.
That three year ban would make players think twice about whether they wish to make huge amounts for a few seasons in the ESL, but then see their careers end when they are dropped from their teams and are worthless to any other club. Does anyone think that Foden is always going to be first choice at Citeh or that Maguire isn't going to be usurped by some up and coming Spaniard? Then again are the younger players coming through going to want to risk their careers for a few seasons in the limelight, but risk never being able to play for their country?
Football is a working class sport, it always has been, but the money men are taking it away from the real fans. Thankfully I support a club that will never be in a position to join this ESL. These money men don't care about the fans, many of them only care about the support and merchandise sales in the middle and far east.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2021 8:59:33 GMT 1
The way forward is obviously our own Super League: Hereford Crewe Chester Telford Wexscum Stockport. Town reserves Stafford Rangers Solihull Moors Anyone I missed? Games all sold out ... obviously ! Coybs No TNS?
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Post by Northwest Shrew on Apr 19, 2021 9:06:32 GMT 1
The FA if they were clever here could come out of this very well, if they came out and said, if you go to this super league, you’re banned forever from Uk competitions. Then get rid of VAR completely, cap match ticket and player wages, from the top, all the way down. There’s no wage cap in non league at the moment, hence why the likes of paddy madden have dropped. Sort out the owners of lower league clubs and have reps working within the smaller clubs ensuring everything is being done by the book, and have strict financial regulations, making it impossible for no good, asset strippers to get any where near football clubs. Have a look at the rules, and don’t punish good clean hard tackles. And make football great again, this is what fans want, not European super league b******s
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 9:08:10 GMT 1
Thanks for that. I must admit, I've only got half an eye on this, because I really don't care what the *ahem* big 6 get up to. Maybe I should care more, I don't know. You'd expect any sort of financial impact on the Premier League to filter down to us but its the chairman of the remaining 14 Premier League clubs who are probably worried the most. I'm certainly not panicking as I think the chances of this happening are slim and this is all part of the negotiation's for the CL reforms, although its one hell of a gamble judging by the reaction of the fans groups. Although it probably shows where fans stand in the pecking order (if there was ever any doubt)
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Post by frankwellshrews on Apr 19, 2021 9:11:19 GMT 1
This would not make the game anymore s**te then VAR is. This kind of proposal has been doing the rounds for ages. If done properly it could be a good thing,ie,the top players would play significantly less games a season. Make the rules that you can only play in the elite super league or your domestic league/cups. The big six English teams would need more players so maybe more chance for homegrown talent. Who knows,probably be a storm in a tea cup with the end result being the big clubs getting more money from the TV cash and not mentioning it for another five years. Exactly - let them recruit PSG and whatever Chinese or US franchise they'll need to square the global TV coverage off and have their own elite league. As you say, there will then be more room in domestic football for home grown talent vying for a super league contract plus, after a period of German dominance, I expect the old European Cup competitions and domestic leagues will start to look a lot more interesting. Absolutely no reason to exclude super league players from international tournaments. A clever uefa/fifa/fa etc would realise they have much more of a bargaining chip than people realise here given they can effectively make the pipeline of young talent to these clubs much harder to manage. It'll never happen though; I'm assuming the broadcasting deals with the Premier league probably have some clause about at least some of these 6 being in it which is invalidated if they do get chucked out. I'm also assuming part of the motivation here, aside from guaranteeing lucrative European football for waning clubs like man utd, will be to cut out the middleman of Sky and do the broadcasting side of it themselves. Given that competing in the CL is not guaranteed as is I expect there's no immediate fallout if they just pull out now. Just means tv numbers are way down and it will be less lucrative next time. I expect that alone will be enough to bring the broadcasters to the negotiating table and the various football authorities will have their mouths stuffed with gold and do as they're told, like they always do. It's a death knell for football though if it leads to automatic CL spots for these self appointed elite clubs. Genuinely think they're overestimating the tolerance of even armchair fans for these shenanigans.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Apr 19, 2021 9:13:27 GMT 1
The FA if they were clever here could come out of this very well, if they came out and said, if you go to this super league, you’re banned forever from Uk competitions. Then get rid of VAR completely, cap match ticket and player wages, from the top, all the way down. There’s no wage cap in non league at the moment, hence why the likes of paddy madden have dropped. Sort out the owners of lower league clubs and have reps working within the smaller clubs ensuring everything is being done by the book, and have strict financial regulations, making it impossible for no good, asset strippers to get any where near football clubs. Have a look at the rules, and don’t punish good clean hard tackles. And make football great again, this is what fans want, not European super league b******s You're making the mistake of thinking anyone involved with the administration of football cares what the fans want. They're interested in money but i agree it could theoretically be brilliant if the reset button was somehow pushed, as unlikely as I think that is
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