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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 19, 2021 9:13:29 GMT 1
Just seen on Twitter that there will be an announcement tonight on a breakaway league, comprising 6 English, 3 Spanish and 3 Italian clubs. PSG and Bayern have rejected their invitation “for now”. All hell is breaking loose with UEFA,, the National FAs, The Premier League, La Liga and Serie A all making threats about banning participating clubs from all their competitions and players from representing their countries. The clubs named are Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs from England plus Barcelona, Atletico and Real Madridf from Spain and AC and Inter from Milan and finally Juventus. Greed as always motivates illogical decisions. Fans groups from invited clubs do not appear to favour the idea. Greed as always motivates illogical decisions. absolutly , they dont give a toss about fans.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 19, 2021 9:15:41 GMT 1
Senior Uefa figures are furious that 11 major European clubs, including five from England, have signed up to a breakaway European Super League. BBC Sport was told last week of plans for some sort of confirmation about a European Super League. Uefa hoped to head off plans with a new-look 36-team Champions League set to be confirmed on Monday. Uefa said it will use "all measures available" to stop the "cynical project" of a breakaway Super League. The European governing body released a joint statement together with the English Football Association, Premier League Spanish Football Federation (RFEF), La Liga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) as well as Serie A on Sunday. They said they will "remain united" in trying to stop the breakaway, using both judicial and sporting measures if required. They also reiterated Fifa's stance that players taking part in the Super League would be banned from all other competitions at domestic, European or world level and could be prevented from representing their national teams. In a separate statement, the Premier League said it condemned the proposal as it "attacks the principles of open competition and sporting merit which are at the heart" of domestic and European football. Juventus owner Andrea Agnelli, Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward and AC Milan chief executive Ivan Gazidis would all have had a significant input into the Champions League discussions on Friday. However, it appears those clubs are among those to have broken ranks, to the fury of Uefa, whose president Aleksander Ceferin wanted to stave off a Super League threat. Spanish La Liga sides Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid are also part of the 11-team group, as are Italian Serie A club Inter Milan. None of the clubs concerned have responded to questions about the proposals. The Premier League said a European Super League would " destroy" the dream of fans that "their team may climb to the top and play against the best". It added such a league would "undermine the appeal of the whole game" and that they would work with the FA, the English Football League, Professional Footballers' Association, League Managers Association and fans to " defend the integrity and future prospects of English football". The FA said it will "not provide permission to any competition that would be damaging to English football" and will "take any legal and/or regulatory action necessary" to stop it. Bundesliga sides are opposed to the plans because the German model means commercial investors cannot have more than a 49% stake in clubs, so fans hold a majority of their own voting rights. It is understood French Ligue 1 side Paris St-Germain are not part of the 11-team group. Uefa said it thanked "those clubs in other countries, especially the French and German clubs, who have refused to sign up" to the breakaway league. "We call on all lovers of football, supporters and politicians, to join us in fighting against such a project if it were to be announced," they added. "This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long. Enough is enough." Quite when the European Super League would start is unclear. However, world governing body Fifa has already said it would not recognise such a competition and any players involved in it would be denied the chance to play at a World Cup. Serie A have called an emergency board meeting to discuss the matter. The Football Supporters' Association said it is "totally opposed" to the plans, which it said were "motivated by nothing but cynical greed". They added: "This competition is being created behind our backs by billionaire club owners who have zero regard for the game's traditions and continue to treat football as their personal fiefdom." It has been agreed the new-look Champions League will involve an initial phase where every club plays 10 matches each rather than the current group phase. In addition there would be play-offs, followed by a knockout phase. The most controversial aspect of the proposals surround the allocation of the four additional places, with two being reserved for the clubs ranked highest in Uefa's co-efficient table who fail to qualify for the Champions League through their domestic competition, but do secure some kind of European football. At the moment, Liverpool and Chelsea would be the clubs who benefited from that system if it was in place this season. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56794673"could be prevented from representing their national teams." i dont see that as much of a deterent, Oh look at my bigger pay check
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 19, 2021 9:23:34 GMT 1
as the clubs sell there merchandise to an international market i dont see this having any impact on that revenue stream, once clubs whent down the route of been owned by owners who just see the club as part of there income stream then they will just look for a bigger revenue stream i also dont see players been that bothered about not playing for there country( the ones who do will join other clubs) or the in the FA cup as it has been devalued as a competition by the big clubs. greed greed and more greed
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 19, 2021 9:28:58 GMT 1
Senior Uefa figures are furious that 11 major European clubs, including five from England, have signed up to a breakaway European Super League. BBC Sport was told last week of plans for some sort of confirmation about a European Super League. Uefa hoped to head off plans with a new-look 36-team Champions League set to be confirmed on Monday. Uefa said it will use "all measures available" to stop the "cynical project" of a breakaway Super League. The European governing body released a joint statement together with the English Football Association, Premier League Spanish Football Federation (RFEF), La Liga, and the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) as well as Serie A on Sunday. They said they will "remain united" in trying to stop the breakaway, using both judicial and sporting measures if required. They also reiterated Fifa's stance that players taking part in the Super League would be banned from all other competitions at domestic, European or world level and could be prevented from representing their national teams. In a separate statement, the Premier League said it condemned the proposal as it "attacks the principles of open competition and sporting merit which are at the heart" of domestic and European football. Juventus owner Andrea Agnelli, Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward and AC Milan chief executive Ivan Gazidis would all have had a significant input into the Champions League discussions on Friday. However, it appears those clubs are among those to have broken ranks, to the fury of Uefa, whose president Aleksander Ceferin wanted to stave off a Super League threat. Spanish La Liga sides Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid are also part of the 11-team group, as are Italian Serie A club Inter Milan. None of the clubs concerned have responded to questions about the proposals. The Premier League said a European Super League would " destroy" the dream of fans that "their team may climb to the top and play against the best". It added such a league would "undermine the appeal of the whole game" and that they would work with the FA, the English Football League, Professional Footballers' Association, League Managers Association and fans to " defend the integrity and future prospects of English football". The FA said it will "not provide permission to any competition that would be damaging to English football" and will "take any legal and/or regulatory action necessary" to stop it. Bundesliga sides are opposed to the plans because the German model means commercial investors cannot have more than a 49% stake in clubs, so fans hold a majority of their own voting rights. It is understood French Ligue 1 side Paris St-Germain are not part of the 11-team group. Uefa said it thanked "those clubs in other countries, especially the French and German clubs, who have refused to sign up" to the breakaway league. "We call on all lovers of football, supporters and politicians, to join us in fighting against such a project if it were to be announced," they added. "This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long. Enough is enough." Quite when the European Super League would start is unclear. However, world governing body Fifa has already said it would not recognise such a competition and any players involved in it would be denied the chance to play at a World Cup. Serie A have called an emergency board meeting to discuss the matter. The Football Supporters' Association said it is "totally opposed" to the plans, which it said were "motivated by nothing but cynical greed". They added: "This competition is being created behind our backs by billionaire club owners who have zero regard for the game's traditions and continue to treat football as their personal fiefdom." It has been agreed the new-look Champions League will involve an initial phase where every club plays 10 matches each rather than the current group phase. In addition there would be play-offs, followed by a knockout phase. The most controversial aspect of the proposals surround the allocation of the four additional places, with two being reserved for the clubs ranked highest in Uefa's co-efficient table who fail to qualify for the Champions League through their domestic competition, but do secure some kind of European football. At the moment, Liverpool and Chelsea would be the clubs who benefited from that system if it was in place this season. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56794673"could be prevented from representing their national teams." i dont see that as much of a deterent, Oh look at my bigger pay check Think Harry Kane might disagree with you., got his eye on record goal scorer. In all honesty I couldn’t give a damn. Apart fro the final destruction of the pyramid with the dream of becoming ‘Top’ I suppose we’ll get used to the ‘The 86’ and forget about them. Make sure they understand no way back in and ban any player from returning should do the trick.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2021 9:33:17 GMT 1
This has parallels with the Hundred competition set up by the ECB.
The Hundred is not wanted by supporters of the County Clubs or genuine cricket fans, but the ECB aren't interested in them. It's all about TV money and attracting an audience that are not likely to even understand the game. Hence you have the rules changed and terms such as 'wickets' to be replaced by 'outs'.
Existing supporters are marginalised.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 19, 2021 9:37:19 GMT 1
If the 6 want to do this then they can by all means do one, close the door behind them, and then let’s get the locks changed and the doors barricaded so they can’t come back in.
No one should be blind to the fact though that this would harm football in our country, the value of the Premier League would plummet which would have a huge knock on to the lower leagues. But as long as the excitement of the sport remains, and the emotion felt by the supporters, the sport would survive.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 19, 2021 9:49:59 GMT 1
Wouldn’t it be funny if TV companies aren’t interesting in broadcasting this greed fest. From what you read DAZN are very much a part of this. So that's already covered.
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electrum
Midland League Division Two
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Post by electrum on Apr 19, 2021 9:50:11 GMT 1
Of course, while all this may have a long term impact on the lower leagues we do still have slightly more pressing and potentially more damaging problems to deal with in the more immediate term - like the impact of not having any supporters in stadiums. I’m surprised we haven’t seen major casualties yet - still a ticking bomb for sure.
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Post by armchairfan on Apr 19, 2021 9:50:39 GMT 1
Just seen on Twitter that there will be an announcement tonight on a breakaway league, comprising 6 English, 3 Spanish and 3 Italian clubs. PSG and Bayern have rejected their invitation “for now”. All hell is breaking loose with UEFA,, the National FAs, The Premier League, La Liga and Serie A all making threats about banning participating clubs from all their competitions and players from representing their countries. The clubs named are Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs from England plus Barcelona, Atletico and Real Madridf from Spain and AC and Inter from Milan and finally Juventus. Greed as always motivates illogical decisions. Fans groups from invited clubs do not appear to favour the idea. I didn't even realise Real Madrid had an F team In this restructured format, Real Madrid "f" (their undr 12s will be playing against Wrexham or Telford....lol
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2021 9:53:01 GMT 1
These Clubs are now going to Court to force this through! www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9485311/Boris-Johnson-condemns-plans-English-clubs-join-European-Super-League.htmlFifa, Uefa and the Premier League have already threatened the 12 clubs - including England's 'Big 6' - with expulsion from all major competitions and even promised to ban their top players from playing for their countries. But the Super League struck the first blow this morning, revealing they have sent a letter to football's governing bodies and have 'filed a motion before the relevant courts' in England, Spain and Italy to ensure the competition can start in as early as August without the 'punitive measures' the dozen rebel clubs have been threatened with. A major legal battle in the High Court in London is also possible because the plan could be in breach of UK Competitions Law, experts have said. The Government is said to be drawing up 'very robust' plans to fight back, including the Home Office withdrawing policing support from matches. There could also be attempts to sanction the owners. The American owners of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal: Joel Glazer, John W Henry and Stan Kroenke respectively are key players in the plans. They have been backed by Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich at Chelsea, Abu Dhabi-back Manchester City and Spurs, owned by British billionaire Joe Lewis. The most extreme change could be to change the ownership rules for clubs to mirror the German model where investors can only own 49 per cent of a club and fans own 51 per cent. This ensures supporters always have the deciding vote at board meetings. Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund have not signed up to the Super League.
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Post by randomtictacs on Apr 19, 2021 10:01:28 GMT 1
The game has finally, truly, gone (to the greedy corporate dogs).
Time for national governments, national football associations , national press and football's actual fans to get together and once and for all time kick these parasites out of the country/sport and return the game and the clubs involved to the people who started them and who the sport is for. (the models for doing this exist)
It is going to be very interesting to see in the next few days who in the sport actually has the balls to speak out about this total garbage. Well done to Danny and Dion last night for taking a stand.
There are a lot of people in or associated with the sport whose reputations will be destroyed, for all time, if they don't join that stand and make their views public.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 19, 2021 10:03:01 GMT 1
Fifa, Uefa and the Premier League have already threatened the 12 clubs - including England's 'Big 6' - with expulsion from all major competitions and even promised to ban their top players from playing for their countries. They have to do this don't they. Its a must. Its the only way they will be able to get the attention of the owners. And they ought not be afraid to do so. I might be well off here but I think we are even at the stage where a good few supporters of those clubs looking to form the league would support such a move. Someone has to make a stand. I really do hope UEFA and the domestic leagues have the balls to do so. It will be interesting to see how other clubs react too. Whether they will be thrown a bone or some crumbs from the table. Whether they will also see the huge amount of money these few clubs will make and the impact that will have on domestic competition. I'd like to think they would stand up against this but you never know, from what I recall didn't Oldham vote for the Premier League?
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Apr 19, 2021 10:04:50 GMT 1
Horrible idea but those in here saying good riddance I don't think fully understand the consequences that come with that. TV deals would plummet for the Prem which would affect every club in the football pyramid and most of them are already close to financial ruin.
As for PSG they only said no because their bankroller is on the UEFA board, RB Leipzig are said to be joining and the cynic in me said Bayern didn't sign up only because they already have a monopoly on their own league. Dortmund are the one club I can see that said no on moral grounds.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 19, 2021 10:12:12 GMT 1
The game has finally, truly, gone (to the greedy corporate dogs). And it would seem it's never enough. Look to the two Spanish clubs, Barca and Real. They are the most successful clubs in Spain by a long way, I believe they can negotiate their own TV deals, they constantly compete in the Champions League, after Manchester United they are the 2nd and 3rd "most valuable football clubs" in the worlds according to Forbes. And yet both are struggling with huge amounts of debt. So even with the huge amounts they earn already, even with the huge amounts they earn already compared to others in the Spanish game it's never enough, they still want more. And considering that is the case, who is to say this additional income won't see their debts increase.
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electrum
Midland League Division Two
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Post by electrum on Apr 19, 2021 10:14:57 GMT 1
Horrible idea but those in here saying good riddance I don't think fully understand the consequences that come with that. TV deals would plummet for the Prem which would affect every club in the football pyramid and most of them are already close to financial ruin. As for PSG they only said no because their bankroller is on the UEFA board, RB Leipzig are said to be joining and the cynic in me said Bayern didn't sign up only because they already have a monopoly on their own league. Dortmund are the one club I can see that said no on moral grounds. The question for PSG and Bayern, if this goes ahead and they don’t join, is how will they feel winning the CL with no Barcelona, no Madrid, no Juventus, no City, Utd etc? It will be about as meaningful as Celtic or Rangers winning the Scottish cup.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 19, 2021 10:22:15 GMT 1
As for PSG they only said no because their bankroller is on the UEFA board, RB Leipzig are said to be joining and the cynic in me said Bayern didn't sign up only because they already have a monopoly on their own league. Dortmund are the one club I can see that said no on moral grounds. I think Leipzig's ownership model is different to the majority of German clubs. That will make a difference. And I think you are being a tad unkind to Bayern there, I don't think their fans would want to be anywhere near this for the very same reasons you think Dortmund's wouldn't be. 👍 Different when it comes to Leipzig and one or two others but I think here for the most part, its not so much what the clubs would want but the membership, the fans.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Apr 19, 2021 10:22:26 GMT 1
Horrible idea but those in here saying good riddance I don't think fully understand the consequences that come with that. TV deals would plummet for the Prem which would affect every club in the football pyramid and most of them are already close to financial ruin. As for PSG they only said no because their bankroller is on the UEFA board, RB Leipzig are said to be joining and the cynic in me said Bayern didn't sign up only because they already have a monopoly on their own league. Dortmund are the one club I can see that said no on moral grounds. The question for PSG and Bayern, if this goes ahead and they don’t join, is how will they feel winning the CL with no Barcelona, no Madrid, no Juventus, no City, Utd etc? It will be about as meaningful as Celtic or Rangers winning the Scottish cup. They would 100% join if this isn't one big bluff, the money is way too much to say no to.
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Post by tdk on Apr 19, 2021 10:23:50 GMT 1
If they go they should not be able to loan players to non super league clubs. The 20 or 30 players per team would then have to choose between signing permanently for a proper club or spending years as a SL non-entity
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Apr 19, 2021 10:26:03 GMT 1
As for PSG they only said no because their bankroller is on the UEFA board, RB Leipzig are said to be joining and the cynic in me said Bayern didn't sign up only because they already have a monopoly on their own league. Dortmund are the one club I can see that said no on moral grounds. I think Leipzig's ownership model is different to the majority of German clubs. That will make a difference. And I think you are being a tad unkind to Bayern there, I don't think their fans would want to be anywhere near this for the very same reasons you think Dortmund's wouldn't be. 👍 Different when it comes to Leipzig and one or two others but I think here for the most part, its not so much what the clubs would want but the membership, the fans. Yes perhaps I am being a bit unkind to them. Didn't realise they were majority owned by the fans though which does change things. I would be extremely surprised if they didn't join if this thing actually takes off though, and i think the 50+1 is the only thing stopping it, so fair play to the fans. And I do believe Bayern have been mooted as looking at the legal ramifications of leaving the Bundesliga in the past for this sort of thing www.dw.com/en/european-super-league-why-are-bayern-munich-and-borussia-dortmund-not-in-it/a-57247929
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 19, 2021 10:49:10 GMT 1
I think Leipzig's ownership model is different to the majority of German clubs. That will make a difference. And I think you are being a tad unkind to Bayern there, I don't think their fans would want to be anywhere near this for the very same reasons you think Dortmund's wouldn't be. 👍 Different when it comes to Leipzig and one or two others but I think here for the most part, its not so much what the clubs would want but the membership, the fans. Yes perhaps I am being a bit unkind to them. Didn't realise they were majority owned by the fans though which does change things. I would be extremely surprised if they didn't join if this thing actually takes off though, and i think the 50+1 is the only thing stopping it, so fair play to the fans. And I do believe Bayern have been mooted as looking at the legal ramifications of leaving the Bundesliga in the past for this sort of thing www.dw.com/en/european-super-league-why-are-bayern-munich-and-borussia-dortmund-not-in-it/a-57247929Good link, thanks for sharing. I wouldn't say that it is the 50+1 that is the only thing stopping them from reading that article (although it will have a huge bearing on whether either looks to join). As it also talks about how the DFL would react. Its one thing to head off to join some super league knowing that you will still be playing in the domestic league, quite another if there is a real chance of getting kicked out of domestic football. It all depends on that for me (here in Germany, in England and elsewhere).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 11:13:58 GMT 1
So the footballing world is united against the greed of clubs, UEFA decide to join the party. That second point, absolutely hilarious to be honest
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 19, 2021 11:18:49 GMT 1
Just seen on Twitter that there will be an announcement tonight on a breakaway league, comprising 6 English, 3 Spanish and 3 Italian clubs. PSG and Bayern have rejected their invitation “for now”. All hell is breaking loose with UEFA,, the National FAs, The Premier League, La Liga and Serie A all making threats about banning participating clubs from all their competitions and players from representing their countries. The clubs named are Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs from England plus Barcelona, Atletico and Real Madridf from Spain and AC and Inter from Milan and finally Juventus. Greed as always motivates illogical decisions. Fans groups from invited clubs do not appear to favour the idea. I didn't even realise Real Madrid had an F team Sorry, I missed the “C” out. Surely you must know that the club is known as Real Madrid C F.
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Post by MetaShrew on Apr 19, 2021 11:20:22 GMT 1
Utterly contemptible. And at this stage, even if the 12 clubs are just bluffing, it's not obvious what further Champions League reform would be accepted by them to stop them from going.
Not looking good at all.
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Post by servernaside on Apr 19, 2021 11:28:16 GMT 1
If sanctions include the players of those clubs not being selected for their countries, it makes you wonder whether the likes of Ronaldo, Kane and Messi will wish to play for their current clubs. None of the top players need more money, so not being allowed to play for their respective countries might be a deal-breaker.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2021 11:31:22 GMT 1
From Gareth Davies on Facebook.
New Team Names.
Arsenal Cannons Manchester Red Sox Manchester Bluebirds Tottenham Tigers Chelsea Crocodiles Liverpool Bay Buccaneers Barcelona Bulldogs Madrid White Chargers Madrid Bears Inter Milan Dynasty Milan Diamond Cutters Juventus Jaguars
Well, the ECB have churned out this nonsense for T20s and The Hundred, so have Rugby Union and Rugby League, so where does it stop?
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Post by venceremos on Apr 19, 2021 11:35:13 GMT 1
Nothing new as such in this, but obviously a significant further development in the continuing saga.
The Premier League's accusations of greed ring hollow, given how that institution came into being in 1992 and how it trumpets every mega-billions TV deal it does. Remember their 39th game idea? Strikes me they don't like the idea of someone else's gravy train detracting from their own. I pay no attention to any shrieks of offended morality from that quarter.
I agree with those saying this is all part of the negotiating process but there's also an air of inevitability about it. If you build a global sporting brand, if you target new global markets for your sport, if you open the ownership of the clubs to multinational billionaires well, what did you expect would happen? Why would anyone be surprised that billionaire owners behave in a billionaire owner-ish way, and aren't too concerned about Burnley or Palace or the other bit part players?
Look at American sports - no promotion or relegation, the same teams play each other every year, no competition between nations ..... but still huge TV and live audiences every season. I know it's different there, but not in every way.
A Premier League without the big six would survive but let's not kid ourselves. A huge amount of the brand's value would have been lost. It would be like the Championship - biggish domestic audience, largely irrelevant abroad. And that's ultimately what it's about now, the global audience of which the UK, Spain, Italy, Germany etc is just a small fragment. That would be ok but the reduced domestic leagues wouldn't have the money to attract the best players and, without them, the audience would only ever be domestic. As Pat Nevin said, players will follow the money, and who can blame them for that? And to those who want players' earnings to be cut and capped, I'd ask where they expect the "saved" money to go then, except into the pockets of the billionaire owners?
To be clear, I'm not in favour of this proposal. I hope there'll be a compromise solution because football is better with the uncertainty of promotion and relegation and the need to qualify. But I think the reaction of some has been hypocritical, especially those who've created this situation and are only upset now because the money flow threatens to be diverted from them. And generally, I think the reaction is a little hysterical, because this hasn't come out of the blue, we've been heading this way for many years now.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 19, 2021 11:37:45 GMT 1
So the footballing world is united against the greed of clubs, UEFA decide to join the party. That second point, absolutely hilarious to be honest When "the footballing world" includes the borderline racketeers of FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League, that's not an alliance that can claim any moral high ground against "greedy clubs".
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Post by venceremos on Apr 19, 2021 11:46:16 GMT 1
I actually think there's some merit in the 2 groups of 10 "Champions League" idea. The current system is dying a death, with almost entirely predictable group stages and the competition only really coming to life when the favourites clash in the knock out rounds. How you get to the 20 is another question.
There needs to be some honesty here. While we all want a meritocratic structure, few of us can be bothered watching, say, Man City v CSKA Moscow or Bayern Munich v Bruges because the result is pretty much a foregone conclusion. And, like it or not, that's a problem for the media groups payrolling the whole thing and for the big clubs paying the big wages.
No doubt that reform is needed, one way or another.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Apr 19, 2021 11:56:33 GMT 1
Going to enjoy playing devils advocate here but Corbyn was spot on....
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2021 11:59:03 GMT 1
'New spots for elite clubs that failed to qualify'.
Sheer hypocrisy on the part of UEFA, who themselves are pandering to the so-called 'elite clubs'.
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