|
Post by welshshrew on Apr 26, 2021 14:04:44 GMT 1
I see the BBC are now the latest to come out and dispute martinshrew's version of events re the 'bodies piled high' statement.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 26, 2021 14:10:41 GMT 1
Johnson's biographer, Andrew Gimson, dispenses with the the first stage of denial ("he didn't say it") to "OK he said it, but no one minded" with this reported by the Daily Mail: "... the PM "may well have" made "tasteless" remark about allowing dead bodies to pile up but believes it will "strengthen his reputation as a man who talks as a man in the pub would".
Who does Gimson usually drink with? Johnson?
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 26, 2021 14:19:15 GMT 1
Shows they're getting it right in the main when people are that desperate the gossip pages are getting attention. Just wiping the coffee off my computer screen
|
|
|
Post by Exkeeper on Apr 26, 2021 14:36:35 GMT 1
Shows they're getting it right in the main when people are that desperate the gossip pages are getting attention. 🤣. I assume that was meant as humour.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 26, 2021 14:54:45 GMT 1
Bit of a mess though. Although to be fair I suppose if no one has an actual recording of what was said it might just end up as someone's word against another's and that'll be it. But he may well have said it, he may not have, he might have said something that sounded like he had. Who knows. And of course if he did say it, it might well have been in a fit of anger and I don't think too many will take him on his word considering the UK did, in fact, lockdown. Ah but, Crafty Mr Cummings has announced that he has audio recordings to back up his claims about the mismanagement of the pandemic as well as fiddling the upgrade of BiJo’s flat. Much like Trump’s “blind” followers, our clown seems to have a similar cult, including some on here. I wonder how they would react if this had been Corbyn? I do not expect a truthful answer to that question. But I don't think anything Cummings has on tape is relevant to this particularly accusation. And looking ahead, there isn't going to be too many leaders who haven't "mismanaged" the pandemic. But I guess we wait and see, see what Cummings will come up with. And sure, political bias is a thing. As is the cult and the new religions we now see out there. Very much including some on here. Without a doubt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 15:04:26 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Apr 26, 2021 15:06:07 GMT 1
Well all I can say is that he definitely mismanaged Cummings during the pandemic.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 26, 2021 15:21:17 GMT 1
Ive said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a lot to be worried about over the coming years. Here's something else, from a journalist at MEN
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Apr 26, 2021 15:32:41 GMT 1
Ive said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a lot to be worried about over the coming years. Here's something else, from a journalist at MEN You'd only be concerned if you're on the right side of the spectrum. Election fraud has been ride amongst the lefties for a long time. Buying votes, postal votes, religious votes. Anything goes.
|
|
|
Post by Exkeeper on Apr 26, 2021 15:51:24 GMT 1
Ah but, Crafty Mr Cummings has announced that he has audio recordings to back up his claims about the mismanagement of the pandemic as well as fiddling the upgrade of BiJo’s flat. Much like Trump’s “blind” followers, our clown seems to have a similar cult, including some on here. I wonder how they would react if this had been Corbyn? I do not expect a truthful answer to that question. But I don't think anything Cummings has on tape is relevant to this particularly accusation. And looking ahead, there isn't going to be too many leaders who haven't "mismanaged" the pandemic. But I guess we wait and see, see what Cummings will come up with. And sure, political bias is a thing. As is the cult and the new religions we now see out there. Very much including some on here. Without a doubt. Agree in part, but with a pandemic that no-one understood, except that it had the potential to be devastating, Johnson’s carefree attitude was totally the wrong approach. He called for SAGE to become involved but then proceeded to skip the first five meetings. The scientists then suggested an immediate lockdown but he stalled on this for a further 3 weeks, whilst death tolls were spiralling out of control. Cummings says that he has evidence to back up the above, both in audio recordings, text messages and minutes from meetings. The public enquiry needs to be held now, before the next strain hits us, but Bo-Jo will not agree to it. I wonder why?
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 26, 2021 15:55:04 GMT 1
My computer screen is taking a hammering this afternoon. The lefties you are talking about aren't lefties, they are operators within the Labour Party. In Sandwell the Labour Party had Tom Watson'spowerbase to do away with.A worthwhile enterprise for democracy. For instance they were able to fiddle the result of a vote among Labour councillors at Sandwell to elect the council leader from among their number. All the hard work done to clear out the Sandwell Labour Party has been undone by Keith in the last 12 months.
I don't use postal votes because of the involvement of a firm that won a contract from the government without competitive tendering just before the 2019 GE.
I note that the allegations of fraud related to postal votes in the Peterborough by election a few years ago were as founded in fact as recent reports of broken ribs and noses in Bristol. But the headlines had done the damage by then.
All the "they're all the same" cynicism just proviodes a cover for the Conservative Party to run riot.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 26, 2021 16:25:02 GMT 1
But I don't think anything Cummings has on tape is relevant to this particularly accusation. And looking ahead, there isn't going to be too many leaders who haven't "mismanaged" the pandemic. But I guess we wait and see, see what Cummings will come up with. And sure, political bias is a thing. As is the cult and the new religions we now see out there. Very much including some on here. Without a doubt. Agree in part, but with a pandemic that no-one understood, except that it had the potential to be devastating, Johnson’s carefree attitude was totally the wrong approach. He called for SAGE to become involved but then proceeded to skip the first five meetings. The scientists then suggested an immediate lockdown but he stalled on this for a further 3 weeks, whilst death tolls were spiralling out of control. Cummings says that he has evidence to back up the above, both in audio recordings, text messages and minutes from meetings. The public enquiry needs to be held now, before the next strain hits us, but Bo-Jo will not make agree to it. I wonder why? Like I say, not many leaders are going to come out of this without unblemished records. So I'm not sure what people are expecting politically. Most I'm sure are simply hoping that knowledge has been gained, lessons will have been learnt and things will be better handled next time. Whether it will end anyone's political career, I'm unsure. Mistakes have been made everywhere. Plus of course there is still an awful lot of information to get through about the pandemic. More that needs to be understood. So many are holding on to the lock downs for example; when, how long, to what degree. Yet when you look to research available, when you make comparisons, none of what is said is a given as yet. I also think it is too early for an inquiry, whether here in Germany or if I were in the UK. India is a clear indicator that this is far from over. No doubt there will be a shed load of criticism leveled at many a world leader after this but I think an awful lot of leeway will be given.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 16:38:29 GMT 1
I understand that all leaders in all countries have made mistakes. But what I’m really interested in is how many ruling parties have dished out billions of pounds to friends and party supporters/donors.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:04:55 GMT 1
I guess there's mistakes and there's mistakes.
New Zealand made some mistakes I'm sure.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:17:38 GMT 1
I mean we talk about political bias, cults and the like. On social media you will come across plenty who will be demanding that Johnson faces justice for the deaths of over 125,000 people. When they are then asked whether they think the leaders of Italy (over 115,000) or France (over 100,000 people) or Germany (over 80,000) or Spain (over 75,000) should face the same justice, they tend to go quiet. It's quite clear what they are about. We talk about the lengths some people will go to defend people, the lengths some will go to attack others can be a real eye opener too.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Apr 26, 2021 17:25:39 GMT 1
I mean we talk about political bias, cults and the like. On social media you will come across plenty who will be demanding that Johnson faces justice for the deaths of over 125,000 people. When they are then asked whether they think the leaders of Italy (over 115,000) or France (over 100,000 people) or Germany (over 80,000) or Spain (over 75,000) should face the same justice, they tend to go quiet. It's quite clear what they are about. We talk about the lengths some people will go to defend people, the lengths some will go to attack others can be a real eye opener too. Do they really though? Or is it more just people don't really have an opinion on countries where they're less familiar with what happened? Bottom line; some questions need answering about the government's slowness to act initially and some of the decisions around procurement during the pandemic. That can't be dodged by pointing at other countries or claiming an agenda from critics. That's banana Republic stuff
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:27:59 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street.
🤣🤣🤣
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:33:39 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street. 🤣🤣🤣 Which is actually fair enough. At least they are honest about their politics.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:38:32 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street. 🤣🤣🤣 You’re beloved Blair and Brown are not far off to be honest, weather it’s selling gold at cut price or making their own mistakes on an illegal war.... at least this pandemic was thrust upon them rather a conscious choice to take part in it for the love of America
|
|
|
Post by darkshrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:41:26 GMT 1
It doesn't matter what side of the political divide that they are on. Corruption must not be tolerated whether it be with electoral procedures or the awarding of government contracts. Having an attitude of "it is ok because they are all at it" is just wrong.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:42:14 GMT 1
I mean we talk about political bias, cults and the like. On social media you will come across plenty who will be demanding that Johnson faces justice for the deaths of over 125,000 people. When they are then asked whether they think the leaders of Italy (over 115,000) or France (over 100,000 people) or Germany (over 80,000) or Spain (over 75,000) should face the same justice, they tend to go quiet. It's quite clear what they are about. We talk about the lengths some people will go to defend people, the lengths some will go to attack others can be a real eye opener too. Do they really though? Or is it more just people don't really have an opinion on countries where they're less familiar with what happened? Bottom line; some questions need answering about the government's slowness to act initially and some of the decisions around procurement during the pandemic. That can't be dodged by pointing at other countries or claiming an agenda from critics. That's banana Republic stuff Questions will be asked, questions will be answered. Who said they are going to be dodged? There will be mistakes identified for sure, how can there not be. A lot of criticism made towards the government too (on PPE for example, on not having a T&T solution in place). And looking to other countries provides perceptive, in that the UK was not the only country in the world struggling to contain and manage a unprecedent pandemic. But that seems to be something many seem desperate to ignore. So that the Tories are in some way the exception. And we all know why. And from what I can recall, they were asked to provide their opinion on others such as Italy and France and they declined to do so. Not that they had no interest, that they had no answer. And of course they didn't because it's pretty clear it was political. As if for some reason the Tories have to held accountable whereas others do not. And again, we all know why.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:43:52 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street. 🤣🤣🤣 You’re beloved Blair and Brown are not far off to be honest, weather it’s selling gold at cut price or making their own mistakes on an illegal war.... at least this pandemic was thrust upon them rather a conscious choice to take part in it for the love of America Ah, the facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street has arrived.
|
|
|
Post by darkshrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:49:31 GMT 1
Every Tory misdeed is ok because:
1.Blair went to war in Iraq on the basis of a false WMD claim from the USA.
Every negative impact of Brexit is ok because:
1.Vaccination program went quicker in the UK.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:51:50 GMT 1
Every Tory misdeed is ok because: 1.Blair went to war in Iraq on the basis of a false WMD claim from the USA. Every negative impact of Brexit is ok because: 1.Vaccination program went quicker in the UK. Well done
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 26, 2021 17:56:02 GMT 1
The gold at cut price chestnut. It hasn't been aired for a while I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Apr 26, 2021 17:56:18 GMT 1
It's preposterous to suggest that the irrational social media posts of a tiny proportion of people (not remotely a 'cult'), somehow balances out those who apparently see no need for the government to be held accountable for its handling of the pandemic here. An accountable government is what most people want, I'm sure, and that has to mean more than "you can vote them out in 4 years' time if you don't think they were competent".
Everyone has been affected by the pandemic, and everyone in the UK has been affected by the actions of the UK government in its handling of the pandemic. Comparisons with how other countries managed the process are only partially relevant. Perhaps every country made mistakes, but that's not the point. We need to understand what mistakes were made here, not elsewhere, and how they can be avoided in future and, given that the pandemic remains, it would be helpful to learn some lessons sooner rather than later.
We also need to know what on earth has gone on in the process of awarding contracts to all manner of businesses, whose only common qualification for the awards seems to be the connections their owners have with the Tory party. Let this be subject to a public enquiry too. If there really was nothing untoward then ministers and civil servants have nothing to hide but it's asking a lot for anyone to take their protestations of innocence at face value when the amounts of public money are eye-wateringly large, the recipients don't seem to be the best qualified for the job and the results have sometimes proved that they really weren't competent for the task.
What was the result of that poll the other day - something like 40% of voters believed Johnson and his party to be corrupt? How can that be brushed off and ignored? I might oppose the Tory party politically but I don't think I've ever believed it to be institutionally corrupt until very recently.
And that's before we get onto the wallpaper in Johnson's flat and God knows that else .....
"They're all as bad as each other" is a counsel of defeat and lets real crooks win. The country deserves better than this.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 26, 2021 17:57:36 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street. 🤣🤣🤣 You’re beloved Blair and Brown are not far off to be honest, weather it’s selling gold at cut price or making their own mistakes on an illegal war.... Indeed. But I suppose that was some time past now, for many long forgotten. But I think there is good reason why Labour's attempts to take up some imagined moral high ground whenever they go to the electorate tends to fail. The electorate see straight through it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 18:02:16 GMT 1
We do talk about political bias. There are those who see mistakes and those who utterly and completely fall over themselves to come up with some facile reason not to concede that this government is the sleaziest most corrupt bunch of crooks to ever disgrace the steps of Downing Street. 🤣🤣🤣 You’re beloved Blair and Brown are not far off to be honest, weather it’s selling gold at cut price or making their own mistakes on an illegal war.... at least this pandemic was thrust upon them rather a conscious choice to take part in it for the love of America I rest my case Mr Downward 😘👍
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 18:11:47 GMT 1
imagined moral high ground There are strains of gonorrhoea that have a better claim to the moral high ground than this government!
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Apr 26, 2021 18:11:50 GMT 1
Do they really though? Or is it more just people don't really have an opinion on countries where they're less familiar with what happened? Bottom line; some questions need answering about the government's slowness to act initially and some of the decisions around procurement during the pandemic. That can't be dodged by pointing at other countries or claiming an agenda from critics. That's banana Republic stuff Questions will be asked, questions will be answered. Who said they are going to be dodged? There will be mistakes identified for sure, how can there not be. A lot of criticism made towards the government too (on PPE for example, on not having a T&T solution in place). And looking to other countries provides perceptive, in that the UK was not the only country in the world struggling to contain and manage a unprecedent pandemic. But that seems to be something many seem desperate to ignore. So that the Tories are in some way the exception. And we all know why. And from what I can recall, they were asked to provide their opinion on others such as Italy and France and they declined to do so. Not that they had no interest, that they had no answer. And of course they didn't because it's pretty clear it was political. As if for some reason the Tories have to held accountable whereas others do not. And again, we all know why. Sorry; "perspective" is not relevant here. That's moral relativism of the worst kind. The UK government is primarily responsible to the UK population. You yourself admit "mistakes were made". There's evidence that a pandemic was the number one item on the UK government risk register for some time was a flu-like pandemic but it was ignored by successive governments in favour of focusing on brexit. The PPE stockpile was run down. People saw what had happened in China and mainland Europe and screamed for a lockdown but were ignored. If there's evidence that the government ballsed up its response to this and decisions Boris and others can be shown to have contributed to the appallingly high death toll when it was possible another course of action would have saved lives, what possible reason is there for him not to have to face some consequences in the same way a negligent driver would for causing an accident? Pointing out the 125k deaths is not "going to great lengths to attack someone", it's just asking for a bit of accountability. I really cannot understand why this is such a controversial idea for so many conservatives, especially given the constant references to Blair and Iraq.
|
|