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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 14:10:53 GMT 1
Loitering between platforms? Isn’t that the train track?!? Waste of everybody’s time that case. Not saying it’s right or wrong but all she had to do was speak to them. Not saying being a mute is an offence worth an £800 fine but surely she’s got better things to do than deal with this. I know I have!
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Post by Pilch on Apr 2, 2020 14:52:58 GMT 1
Loitering between platforms? Isn’t that the train track?!? it depends if there is a train track between the platforms ! more likely it was a platform between train tracks in fairness, people need to use common sense and help the authorities and not act stupid unless she was a 'key worker ' she shouldn't have been anywhere near the railway station anyway and if you are asked to leave railway premises and dont you commit the offence of loitering railway bye laws are worth reading some you may have broke are attempting to board a train before passengers alight and singing on a train or playing music have dirty clothes, or be drunk
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 15:02:29 GMT 1
I remember the days when the request 'spitting strictly prohibited' was on a notice behind the drivers cabs of Midland Reds.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 15:20:49 GMT 1
Quotes from the pieces in the article. Marie Dinou, 41, from York, was fined £800 after allegedly failing to tell police her name and why she was at Newcastle Central station - and is believed to be Britain's first prosecution for breaching the lockdown. British Transport Police, who carried out the arrest, said she was detained because she 'refused to speak' to officers after being seen 'loitering between platforms' on Saturday. So perhaps Miss/Mrs Dinou should perhaps comply and give her name, but on the face of it, stop being a dick, if a police officer asks you your name, give it to them, if they are asking what your doing, Tell them, is it really that big an issue??
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oldfart
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Post by oldfart on Apr 2, 2020 22:48:26 GMT 1
So where exactly has the law been applied wrongly? magistrates obviously believed offences had been committed and gave an appropriate fine. The guidance for the police is to do this as a last resort so what else are they supposed to do. Every time the police engage with the public they place themselves at risk and this type of behaviour in the current climate surely can’t be accepted. i work in the local constabulary and our approach has not been to prosecute unless absolutely necessary and at present in Shropshire I am not aware of any prosecutions and there hasn’t been any tickets issued. We all want the same thing I am sure and need the public to understand these are strange times. i fully acknowledge there have been some over zealous responses elsewhere but in any form of life and work there’s always one or two that let others down. However don’t judge the 100% based on the 1% that seem to get it wrong.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 23:26:46 GMT 1
This being at a train station business is beyond me, were there any trains?
Meanwhile, National Express is to stop all services from this weekend having had a limited service since lockdown. Expect the first arrest for loitering at a bus stop sometime soon.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 3, 2020 8:47:53 GMT 1
So where exactly has the law been applied wrongly? magistrates obviously believed offences had been committed and gave an appropriate fine. The guidance for the police is to do this as a last resort so what else are they supposed to do. Every time the police engage with the public they place themselves at risk and this type of behaviour in the current climate surely can’t be accepted. i work in the local constabulary and our approach has not been to prosecute unless absolutely necessary and at present in Shropshire I am not aware of any prosecutions and there hasn’t been any tickets issued. We all want the same thing I am sure and need the public to understand these are strange times. i fully acknowledge there have been some over zealous responses elsewhere but in any form of life and work there’s always one or two that let others down. However don’t judge the 100% based on the 1% that seem to get it wrong. According to the charge sheet presented in court, Dinou was prosecuted under Schedule 21 of the Coronavirus Act. This clause is meant to force people to self-isolate or be tested for coronavirus, if they are suspected to have it and are endangering the public by being out of the house. But British Transport Police confirmed they didn't believe she was ill - nor did they ask her to self-isolate or be screened. More damning is guidance issued by the National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC), which is clear that under the Act officers have no power to 'stop and account', or force someone to explain themselves. Following concerns raised by legal professionals, the conviction is to be quashed and police admitted it “shouldn’t have happened”. British Transport Police (BTP) said it had conducted a review with the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) that “established that Marie Dinou was charged under the incorrect section of the Coronavirus Act 2020”. In response to questions from The Independent, the force said it had asked North Tyneside Magistrates’ Court for the case to be relisted and the conviction to be set aside. “Having reassessed the matter, BTP will not pursue any alternative prosecution,” a spokesperson said. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/coronavirus-fine-police-lockdown-travel-newcastle-marie-dinou-a9444186.htmlMs Dinou had been suspected of a railway ticket offence, but the Coronavirus Act was used to prosecute her instead.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 9:36:39 GMT 1
You couldn't make it up! I thought charges went through a whole rigmarole before being presented in court? I suppose,just like in the general population, common sense is suspended in a small proportion of the law.
Is the "suspected ticket offence" just a little snipe to taint her from a shame faced constabulary?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 11:15:08 GMT 1
You couldn't make it up! I thought charges went through a whole rigmarole before being presented in court? I suppose,just like in the general population, common sense is suspended in a small proportion of the law. Is the "suspected ticket offence" just a little snipe to taint her from a shame faced constabulary? So you are lambasting the Law, but not a single mention about how she refuses to give basic information, most of the police work is done on individuals attitude, so ok, she may of been prosocuted using strong arm tactics, but by the sounds of it, she was quite objectional in the first instance.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 11:22:39 GMT 1
You couldn't make it up! I thought charges went through a whole rigmarole before being presented in court? I suppose,just like in the general population, common sense is suspended in a small proportion of the law. Is the "suspected ticket offence" just a little snipe to taint her from a shame faced constabulary? So you are lambasting the Law, but not a single mention about how she refuses to give basic information, most of the police work is done on individuals attitude, so ok, she may of been prosocuted using strong arm tactics, but by the sounds of it, she was quite objectional in the first instance. Exactly so. Which makes it even more important to pick the right charge to ensure she got what she deserved. It was BTP, they should be used to dealing with suspected fare dodgers and getting the proper outcome BC (Before Coronavirus).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 11:58:53 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 12:05:27 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. But she could have got done for it? Before Coronavirus what would have happened? She would surely have not got away with it if she had not got a ticket just by refusing to tell them her name and address? If that was so all the scallys would have done that.
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oldfart
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Post by oldfart on Apr 3, 2020 12:46:27 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rightsI think you are looking at the wrong legislation. stop and search is different to be reported for an offence or being ticketed. in these circumstances you are required to provide enough details for a summons to be raised so a name and address is required. If this is not given then an arrest can be made
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 13:33:32 GMT 1
No doubt the "quite objectional" lady will now go on to sell her story to the papers.
I expect it reads something like this: She is suspected of a ticket offence. She is approached and refuses to give her name and address, eventually waving a valid ticket at them (since she was not in court for a ticket offence). But her attitude stinks, so they decide to book her under the new Coronavirus laws, even though she is not suspected of having Coronavirus which the new law supports.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 13:39:15 GMT 1
These are difficult and unprecedented times for us all, especially those on the front line. Why was this person so awkward? Why make it so difficult for both herself and others? I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 14:01:47 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rightsAnd therein lies the problem. Try it in a different country like Russia or the States, and see how far it gets you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 14:04:27 GMT 1
These are difficult and unprecedented times for us all, especially those on the front line. Why was this person so awkward? Why make it so difficult for both herself and others? I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. My guess is she thought she could jib the train as it’s so quiet everywhere but then got caught when approached by BTP, who promptly made a pig’s ear of it!
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Post by northwestman on Apr 3, 2020 14:26:00 GMT 1
www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/18348309.cheshire-police-reviews-coronavirus-legislation-breaches/Cheshire Police say they are reviewing the cases of six people summonsed to court over alleged breaches of emergency coronavirus legislation in Warrington. The force has received criticism from some quarters over what has been perceived as heavy-handed enforcement of the new measures. At the weekend, half a dozen court summonses were issued over incidents in the town – all coming at around 4am on Sunday, March 29. There is nothing in the legislation that prohibits multiple people from the same household going to the shops. Nor is there a bar on going out to buy “non-essential items”. Such things may not be desirable, but they are not crimes.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 3, 2020 14:45:30 GMT 1
You couldn't make it up! I thought charges went through a whole rigmarole before being presented in court? I suppose,just like in the general population, common sense is suspended in a small proportion of the law. Is the "suspected ticket offence" just a little snipe to taint her from a shame faced constabulary? So you are lambasting the Law, but not a single mention about how she refuses to give basic information, most of the police work is done on individuals attitude, so ok, she may of been prosocuted using strong arm tactics, but by the sounds of it, she was quite objectional in the first instance. It's not a crime to be objectionable - as many on here should know . It's puzzling that she didn't co-operate but the fact remains she committed no crime. The day we accept people being prosecuted without breaking the law is the day we'll know we live in a police state. I wish people would read the law (it's not very long), understand what it forbids and accept its limitations, rather than assuming it empowers the police to do whatever they like, just because it feels right to them that should be the case. I know the police have a difficult job - they always do - but that doesn't excuse an ignorance of the law. As for the magistrate - they and whoever advised them should be stood down as a matter of urgency.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 3, 2020 14:49:16 GMT 1
These are difficult and unprecedented times for us all, especially those on the front line. Why was this person so awkward? Why make it so difficult for both herself and others? I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. Whether or not you or I feel any sympathy for her is beside the point. I feel no sympathy for a lot of people but I wouldn't want them to be prosecuted if they hadn't broken the law.
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Post by venceremos on Apr 3, 2020 14:50:58 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rightsAnd therein lies the problem. Try it in a different country like Russia or the States, and see how far it gets you. So you'd rather live in Russia, where they don't have such a "problem"? Here's a novelty, liberal leftie me telling a hard core Thatcherite to move to Russia if he thinks it's better there …..
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Post by northwestman on Apr 3, 2020 15:01:01 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Apr 3, 2020 16:04:51 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rightsAnd therein lies the problem. Try it in a different country like Russia or the States, and see how far it gets you. Probably something like this! Russian police have detained a doctors’ rights activist who has been highly critical of the Kremlin’s handling of the coronavirus outbreak. Anastasia Vasiliyeva, the head of the opposition-leaning Alliance of Doctors union, was detained with other activists last night while attempting to deliver medical equipment in Russia’s Novgorod region. Video of the incident showed Vasiliyeva being dragged into a local police station by police officers and other men in medical masks. In a post, the organisation said Vasiliyeva lost consciousness during the arrest, possibly because she was choked. She is still in custody as of Friday afternoon and has reportedly received citations for violating mandatory quarantine measures and for resisting police orders. Vasiliyeva and the Alliance of Doctors have been highly critical of the government’s preparations for the coronavirus outbreak, accusing the government of faking official statistics about the number of coronavirus cases in Russia and blasting the government for failing to equip hospitals with needed medical supplies. The Guardian.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 17:56:24 GMT 1
And therein lies the problem. Try it in a different country like Russia or the States, and see how far it gets you. Probably something like this! Russian police have detained a doctors’ rights activist who has been highly critical of the Kremlin’s handling of the coronavirus outbreak. Anastasia Vasiliyeva, the head of the opposition-leaning Alliance of Doctors union, was detained with other activists last night while attempting to deliver medical equipment in Russia’s Novgorod region. Video of the incident showed Vasiliyeva being dragged into a local police station by police officers and other men in medical masks. In a post, the organisation said Vasiliyeva lost consciousness during the arrest, possibly because she was choked. She is still in custody as of Friday afternoon and has reportedly received citations for violating mandatory quarantine measures and for resisting police orders. Vasiliyeva and the Alliance of Doctors have been highly critical of the government’s preparations for the coronavirus outbreak, accusing the government of faking official statistics about the number of coronavirus cases in Russia and blasting the government for failing to equip hospitals with needed medical supplies. The Guardian. Have to go to the extreme eh!! I was saying be stopped by a policeman in some countries and refuse to give your name, then the consequences are very different than here!! but nope you have to go further eh!! If anyone thinks its a vote to go to there extremes then you may be a bit foolish, glad you have it off your chest though!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 18:15:31 GMT 1
We are not obliged to give out basic information to the Police. However, you are under the current Corona Virus legislation. So, if she was getting done for a ticket offence, she is within her rights to withhold her name and address. www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rightsI think you are looking at the wrong legislation. stop and search is different to be reported for an offence or being ticketed. in these circumstances you are required to provide enough details for a summons to be raised so a name and address is required. If this is not given then an arrest can be made Yes, sorry, I meant to point out that you only need to give your name, etc under stop and search, but as I understand it she wasn't being stopped and searched.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 20:40:40 GMT 1
These are difficult and unprecedented times for us all, especially those on the front line. Why was this person so awkward? Why make it so difficult for both herself and others? I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. My guess is she thought she could jib the train as it’s so quiet everywhere but then got caught when approached by BTP, who promptly made a pig’s ear of it! The BT Police thought along the same lines as you - she looks like she thinks she can jib the train as it’s so quiet everywhere - she wasn't, otherwise she would have been in court for that. Then they made a pigs ear of it because they were not impressed by her attituse, then the magistrate and advisers made a pigs ear of it.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Apr 3, 2020 21:05:31 GMT 1
All police leave cancelled I imagine.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 21:30:35 GMT 1
They are going to react sensibly I am sure. If people are able to social distance themselves around the mere then that's ok. If social distancing cannot be achieved then they will ask you to move on. This isn't a police state like Derbyshire. How long before some authority sets up a rota for us to visit beauty spots, or, in a capitalist society, sells tickets or you could put visits to beauty spots in as National lottery prizes. I see the certificate of immunity idea is gaining ground. If you haven't had Coronavirus you stay in lock down. I mentioned on the "next match crowd" thread that our next home crowd will comprise those with a certificate of immunity, it's coming!
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Apr 3, 2020 21:37:05 GMT 1
Hopefully the Mere wont be infected with black dye over the weekend.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 3, 2020 22:27:33 GMT 1
Hopefully the Mere wont be infected with black dye over the weekend. If we are not allowed to travel to Welsh beauty spots then black Dai should stay in Wales!
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